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Actually I was comparing my 'loaded' Azera Limited/Ultimate to a 'loaded' Acura TL, the way that I would buy them!
Per the current Acura website a 'loaded' TL would cost me:
"2008 TL Type-S 5-Speed Automatic with High-Performance Tires
Total as Configured:$43,475.00
*MSRP:$38,425.00
Destination:$715.00"
Don't bother telling me that the two cars are differently equipped, or that the base cars are cheaper!! I know! But after test driving each, my wife and I were more comfortable and preferred the Azera, in spite of the fact that we wound up paying about $16,000 less for our Azera!! (Your results may vary!)
PS: Since we are 'rich' ($1.2M & no debt), we can buy any cars we want, and right now those are a 'loaded' Hemi Magnum and a 'loaded' Azera! We buy what pleases us, but we won't waste money buying labels! We got 'rich' by being frugal, and we plan to stay 'rich' the same way!!!!
If you are happy with what you have, that's what really matters. I'm still happy with my wife after 33 years, and although she has a few rust spots and isn't as quick as she used to be, I have no plans to trade her in!! Believe me, I keep very current with what's around and enjoy looking at the latest models, but, of course, only 'test drive' the cars!! I am eagerly awaiting the Genesis V8, the Infiniti EX (I didn't like the FX), the 6.4L 500hp Magnum, and the Smart ForTwo!
I think that there are many people who would enjoy owning a 'luxury' car, but can't afford one. If someone could own a luxury car with great looks, comfort and performance for the price that they would usually pay for a standard car, why wouldn't they go for it? Even if it comes with a 'twisted H' rather than a 'three pointed star'!! And how many luxury car buyers would say: "What a great car, but I need to pay a lot more for a car that nice!"! In which case they would be labeled as "rich but foolish"!
M-B SLK55 AMG, E63 AMG, S Class (any version), SL Class (any version)
Audi S6, S8, R8
Maserati Quattroporte
They make my dream list not because of their badges, but because of the cars that they are.
While visiting my attorney last Tuesday, he told me about his son-in-law who is an NHL hockey star. It seems that a while back he bought a Maserati. Nice car, but when he got the bill for $17,000 for his 30,000 mile major service, he decided that he could make due with something else!! I didn't learn what he is driving now, but it most likely isn't an Azera!!
Moderation is the key to a happy, healthy, enjoyable, and long life! Don't marry the prettiest or the ugliest woman. Don't drive a Yugo or a Maserati. Eat and drink just until satisfied. Usually buy the mid-range model. Get what you want, not what someone else says you should get. Don't let other people spend your money for you. Do a lot of shopping, but not much buying.
PS
I am trying to spend mine to not corrupt my children also. Just not waste it.
That is not true. Hyundai had shared a good percentage of its Sonata into rental agencies during 2006 but that was a designed program (not sure how well it worked out).
Hyundai's current fleet averages around in the upper teens to about 20%
"2008 TL Type-S 5-Speed Automatic with High-Performance Tires
Total as Configured:$43,475.00
Ahh I see the problem.
Number one you wanted to buy the Best FWD sporty sedan on the market with an automatic and two you spent over 5,000 dollars on accessories. There aren't any options on a TL-S so you would just blew a lot of money on dress up items most of which you could get for less from the aftermarket and as they are all cosmetic they wouldn't effect your warranty.
Did you expect to pay list price for all that? Man I sure hope not as you can get pretty good deals on 2007 TLs right now. A grand or more below invoice isn't out of the question and if you really had to have a 2008 model I am sure a grand above invoice would do it.
You could probably have paid MSRP and had them throw all the accessories in at that price.
I hope you didn't pay list price for the Azera.
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/fleet-sales-first-half-2007/301964/
DrFill
As to where the Hyundai Veracruz and the upcoming Genesis fits into the luxury market read the following.
According to an article that appeared on March 26 2007 on CNNMoney.com
John Krafcik, Hyundai Motor America's vice president for product development and strategic planning stated Hyundai isn't chasing typical luxury car buyers. Instead, the upcoming Hyundai Genesis is for those who eschew paying money for a badge. “We call these guys the confident non-conformist,"
In the same posting,Karl Brauer, an editor and columnist for the automotive Website Edmunds.com, thinks Hyundai can succeed with the Genesis but the car likely won't take sales away from the likes of BMW and Mercedes-Benz.
The buyers of a large Hyundai car could be "the group that can't afford whatever they want but who still want luxury," he said.
He points to the Chrysler 300 as a car currently that appeals to that group.
"[The 300] didn't appeal to traditional luxury buyers," Brauer said. "It appealed to nonluxury buyers who liked the idea of getting some luxury"
This Genesis is very Generic in design.
DrFill
FYI - Hyundai has further reduced fleet % since.
Someday, you'll back up your claims........I'm waiting for the day I'm going to be impressed.
DrFill
Since the link you had provided doesn't show any Hyundai vehicles over 30% as somehow you had claimed. I get figures from my friend at Polk, which tracks new car registration. The website you are looking is useful, except it is not up-to-date.
First sales, and now we are dragging fleet into another off-topic discussion...
For the record, I was wrong by .2%. I hate when that happens.
DrFill
Hyundai is over 20%. If you're over 20%, you are too high. You can't sell what you have.
Now we can move on.
DrFill
2) You are forgetting the CUVs, which carries percentages in the single-to-low teens.
3) 2006 total - car: 22.7% | Trucks 5.9%
4) I will give you the 2007 total once they are released but for now, Hyundai is under 20%.
5) Entourage and Azera are not part of Hyundai's volume lineup. They are: Elantra, Sonata, Santa Fe, Tuscon and Accent
3) 2006 total - car: 22.7% | Trucks 5.9%
Did you just quote 2006 information, say Hyundai is lowering fleet this year, then say my 2007 information is outdated?
I know you didn't just do that. Tell me, he did not just do that!
Uh-Oh....I think I just heard a toilet flush. :lemon:
DrFill
Yes I do have more recent info but for your sake, let's use your info:
Total Hyundai fleet 2007 midyear
36,557
Total Hyundai sales:
192,033
Percentage: 19.04%
You don't just take the percentage and average it out...
Hyundai has YTD sales over 358K, yes this is very outdated info
Check my work if you don't believe me:
2194 14363 0.152753603
8588 39898 0.215248885
14902 53900 0.276474954
2547 11243 0.226540959
3 82 0.036585366
11 5735 0.001918047
2617 8757 0.298846637
4076 36835 0.110655626
1619 21105 0.07671168
0 115 0
Total: 36557 192033 0.190368322
Now, will you stop posting incorrect information?
First, you averaged the fleet numbers provided against YTD sales, which means you tried to do the same thing I did, which you just tried to chastize me for, but miscalculated because.........
Second, the fleet numbers are by model year, not calender year.
Sure you don't play for the Diamondbacks? :confuse:
This is getting somewhat embarassing, so moving on.....
DrFill
Total Hyundai fleet sales (per links) / Total Hyundai vehicles (per links)
(Divide the two, you'd get 19%)
What average, there is no average involved, I used additions and divisions. The 358K figure I posted to tell you the info you have is outdated - it has nothing to do with the corporate average per links provided.
Hey I took the numbers right out of those links you posted. Again the info is outdated so it doesn't really matter...but you really should stop posting incorrect figures:
30%+29.8%23.51%and bashful comments.
Veracruz, and it's marketing campaign, are outshown, again, by the Mazda.
On top of it's 29.9% fleet rate. :P
DrFill
A textbook example of derivative styling.
Beats thinking of fleet percentages eh?
Man had Toyota Highlander won, you would have had plastered on here in every post. Geesh.
On top of it's 29.9% fleet rate
29.9%? Per the links you provided, Veracruz has had NONE going into fleet. Even the updated info has it in very low amounts.
STOP POSTING INCORRECT INFO AND GET BACK ON TOPIC!!!
There is a little bit of GS styling in there too.
Reports show Mazda is doing what Hyundai dreams of doing, bringing in luxury buyers. Maybe Mazda should sell a super-sedan? It would probably do better.
I'm just following your lead, after you get finished contadicting yourself. :sick:
Hopefully, you are through.
DrFill
Back on topic: Is there room for Hyundai in the luxury field.
The short answer is yes but certainly not without challenges. Hyundai has to overcome perceptions which has plagued the brand for many years. Is it easy? Not at all but it is possible with a lot of work and time. Do I think the brand needs a luxury brand? Long-term, very much yes. Short-term Hyundai should be okay for the time being. The first step in the drive to the luxury brand is to get a well-thought-out plan, dealer network, etc
#2. At least I show my research.
If you come here, contradict yourself, then want to tell me what's what, then I'm going to call you on it.
You said let's move on, before you contradicted that, now let's move on. :confuse:
DrFill
Hyundai Veracruz - - - - 115 115 0.0%
#1: I didn't post any such incorrect information. Veracruz is at 30%.
Wanna take that back?
Were you the one that said Hyundai was 30%+, 29.8%, 23%+, or must I confused with someone else...
The Entourage is at 30%. And I said models, not the company, go up to 30%+. Which isn't false, since Entourage is at 30%, and Hyundai makes Kia, and they get over 50%.
DrFill
Further, 29.9% and 32.2% gives you 50%+??? We went over this:
Entourage: 2617 8757 0.298846637
Sedona: 10327 32321 0.319513629
Total: 12944 41078 0.315107844
31.5%
Go post it in a minivan forum.
Let's.
DrFill
The short answer is yes but certainly not without challenges. Hyundai has to overcome perceptions which has plagued the brand for many years. Is it easy? Not at all but it is possible with a lot of work and time. Do I think the brand needs a luxury brand? Long-term, very much yes. Short-term Hyundai should be okay for the time being. The first step in the drive to the luxury brand is to get a well-thought-out plan, dealer network, etc
What do you guys think?
Personally, I think the latter would be easier (perception and all), but then how would Kia and Hyundai play with eachother? They already seem to overlap a bit in the lower models to me.
The car is only part of the formula.
If they build a new network, they have a punchers chance.
But for Hyundai to start fights with Lexus is beyond foolish. :lemon:
And I would repackage Kia as a Scion-like subdivision, starting with the Kia Soul concept.
DrFill
When they do create the luxury lineup down the road, the BH should shift into the new brand.
2) Update the Veracruz and also shift it there.
3) The forthcoming coupe under the BH platform may also be shifted
4) Portico concept (which has been green-lighted for production
5) LWB BH (codename VI) with 5.0L/5.5L (superchargers and cyclinder deactivation)
Should be a good starting point but a lot of work needed to be done prior...
Kia as a Scion like subdivision is really good idea, actually.
The one thing I disagree on your past is the VW comparison. Hyundai isn't branding the BH in the $60K+ market, but there is a really good chance at $30K
If the Genesis comes out as a Hyundai, the Genesis can't come back as a true lux car two years later. Lincoln has shown that repackaging a luxury car after a poor launch plan is a detahknell.
Lexus has had similar issues in japan, trying to repackage Toyotas as Lexus vehicles.
The LS came out as a Lexus from the start, and took off.
If you're going to do it, do it right.
And forget about Lexus for the next millenium or two....
DrFill
That's funny because:
Can human go to Mars by 2015?
Would Arnie ever become President of US?
Will there be affordable flying cars?
Theoretically speaking can we go back in time?
Will Bush and Osama ever get along?
IMO the short answers to the above questions are all: yes but certainly not without challenges. :P
Isn't it amazing how a silly thing like a "status" badge will make people waste thousands of dollars? I care exactly squat about status. If a car looks great, drives great, has a great warranty, and feels luxurious, it is luxurious. A badge or a price can never make a car luxurious... unless you live in a weird little pretend world of pure decadence. Some blokes buy $5 a bottle water when blind taste tests prove the .50 a bottle stuff tastes best. To each his own, but I don't play that game.
That's one point of view. The other point of view of course. It's not about the badge making the car luxurious, it's about what the manufacturer puts into their lineup to make them a luxury manufacturer vs making a car with leather seats.
I agree about the water, but don't think the Azera has quite the engineering behind it like let's say an RL, FX45, 550i, or even a TL-S. (the reason I can say that without driving the car, is, if it did, it would sell for a different price point) I think one should buy the car that fits their needs, but don't belittle those who can afford more and get more.
It's never about the badge, it's about what the manufacturer has put into the badge to earn the reputation (good or bad) they have on the street.