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But I like the Mobil 1 oil. How much extra does it really cost, especially considering the cost of gas these days? The difference in cost seems like a minor factor.
Have you seen pictures of engines that ran on dino and are all gunked up versus those ran on synthetic that are clean as a bell?
And what about cold starts? Short of a pre-oiler, doesn't synthetic offer extra protection here?
Don't know, lot of questions in the oil lubrication world, but I feel good about Mobil 1 oil. Would rather err on the side of quality considering my vehicle is new (like yours) and I want it to last.
bottle had a price of around $4.59. I was considering switching from Mobil 1 SyperSYN due to the $5.00/qt cost. Currently changing at 5000 mi intervals with DELCO AC filters.
Regards to all
Andy
I am pretty positive that the lack of Pennzane hype is due to the change in marketing. I think the market research indicated that Pennzane did not provide the "advantage" they had hoped.
I would tend to stay with the Mobil One product. If the cost is the concern, extend the oil change interval, say to the 7500 mile interval. While Penzoil may say 100% synthetic, remember that post Mobil One trial definitions in effect legally REDEFINES that "hydro cracked synthetic" oil CAN meet the PRE trial definition of 100% synthetic!!! If you look at their site and they say PAO's then they are indicating the old definition. If PAO's ARE noticeably absent or buried in with the legalize gobbity goop, I think that is a FAR greater hint!! For example Mobil One, most Amsoil, and Redline display synthetic/PAO prominently.
Perhaps if you look at the BIGGER picture it may help to put it into perspective. Pennzoil merged with Quaker State who bought Jiffy Lube (you know the 3k oil change interval or do you know your crankcase can die if you go over 3k oil change intervals). This threesome company has been recently been bought up by Shell Oil Company which in turn is owned by the very global, Royal Dutch Petroleum. I apologize if I left anybody out in the gobbling process.
Magnetic drain plug so far has been spotless...
first oil change was at 2500, then 5000 thereafter even though oil is still honey color. Vehicle has 8,000 miles...
http://www.ml.afrl.af.mil/mlb/s-nonstructmatspacesys.html
This is a USAF Materials and Manufactoring Directorate, space materials executive summary. Germane to our discussion is the point that they are looking for PENNZANE REPLACEMENTS! There is also a passing reference tht the VI or viscosity index (139)is good for Pennzane BUT PAO is (145) better
BMW's come with synthetic since most new BMW's are leased and the owners don't care what happens to their car, long term - it's hard to get them to come in for services, they are too busy or at least think their time is too valuable. On the other hand, BMW wants some resale value, so BMW usually provides free maintenance (and since BMW is paying, that is why it is also in BMW's interest to have extended drain intervals) and synthetic oil. (The problem of leased cars being abused with lack of service isn't unique to BMW; Ford has a special spec on its 5-20 oil which which is supposed to ward off extended oil change interval problems.)
As for myself, I like to drive my poor little economy car, with its stickshift, like a sports car. Thus for my use, 3-5k oil change intervals are the most I want to go. Especially, I think most oil filters are built for the "lowest common denominator" (that is, for 3k oil change intervals) so I don't feel like leaving some cheap fiber in the oil flow path for more than 5k miles.
Nothing says you can't buy and expensive filter!
So in systems terms, the best solution is to put in preoilers, but this would ridiculously extend the engine's economic useful life!!!
(so for example using app 250k x 60%= 150k+ 250k= 400k.)
Pardon me for being totally gross, but I do wonder how the 1970 VW would run with today's Mobil One 5W-30 SL with conversion to unleaded gas and a valve hardening job for that specification!
For $4.59 I'd be all over Mobil One SuperSyn in whatever flavor you prefer. Check places like Walmart and Target for good deals. Sometimes you'll see them match local competitors pricing. M1 is also sold at Costco for under $4.00/qt.
For sure you are correct. The real question is what synthetic oils and as an adjunct will fulfill your wants needs and for my 2 cents, bang for the buck.
On the issue of oil filters I use two AC Delco PF-44 (2.) and an OEM TLC ($3.)(PF53 equivalent and will use the Super Tech @ 1.97 when I use up the stash I have). If I get the premium UPF44 ($8)or a Mobil One ($12) am I really getting 4 to 6x's the value?
I was reading on one web site about an oil 5w-30(Amsoil, I think) that has a 35,000 mile advertised interval between oil changes. WOW !! However, if you check most, if not all oil manufacturers the drop dead recommendation is x amount of miles OR 12 mo/1 year intervals. So for me the Mobil One 5w-30 (can go 3000-15,000 miles as an interval) fits the usage and bang for the buck equation. Not to mention the fact that one of my vehicles computers is calibrated with this product in mind. Coincidently, I had been using the Mobil One 5w-30 for the same intervals in TLC's for many miles (in excess of 600k), so if anything this product has proved itself over a long period of time not to mention miles.
I stand corrected about the Amoil 0w-30. Again this is instructive. For example: if I went 35,000 miles in a year, I would definitely consider Amsoil 0w-30.
While I understand your concern, would you put some numbers or consequences when you say "risk" the engine? I sold a 16k 1987TLC for 9k (yes this thing was scoped out by a Toyota Dealer before sale, once by me and once by the prospective turned actual buyer) after about 14 years of running it and app 250k miles with 15k mile intervals with Mobil One. Another TLC (sold to a relative) has in excess of 130k. My daughter drives one that has 100k. I have app 50k on a Z06. (you can bet the dealers want to sell me MASSIVE repair services and at minium a Borsch type hot solvent engine cleaning [200-300 dollars] )
Right on regarding TBN. I have found using Amsoil 0w/30 that I can hold a TBN of 6 or higher under fleet usage for in excess of 15k, with the other parameters you mentioned under acceptable limits. On a vehicle with bypass filtration however, the oil life can be considerably higher. Mobil 1 really does not advertise its life to be much beyond 3-5k miles. I could see it doing ok in highway miles for 6 months or 7.5k.though. That is what I like about Amsoil, you get what you pay for.
You seem to have something wrong with your engine that has nothing to do with the oil.
That was my take also!
No reaon to change the oil changes but you can change your oil each 3000 miles if that feels good to you....
Again, I am not saying that Mobil1 is a bad oil. What I'm saying is to make sure you tread carefully when you extend the oil interval because the engines aren't cheap these days. Some engines will be easy on Mobil1 but make sure yours is one of them by analyzing the oil.
I do agree with you that you should do an oil analysis on an extended drain but you should not EXPECT these kind of results since they are not the norm. If you get these kind of results, I would also look for other problems in the engine that might explain it instead of just automatically blaming it on the oil.
Jack
And why are folks so quick to jump on the idea that there's something else wrong with the engines in which these subpar analysis results were obtained?
The purpose of oil analysis is to identify trends and spot problems with the engine and NOT the oil !!!! The oil is really the "mirror". So the first order of business is to necessarily mitigate the "problem"
If you are referring to long drain intervals as 25,000 to 35,000. I would probably agree with you. If you are saying Mobil One can not go from 3000 to 15,000 then I disagree.
The drop dead date for almost all oils, synthetic or even conventional is 12 mo or a year. EVEN Amsoil posts this. So again, if one does 25,000 to 35,000 miles in a year and wants to change it once a year, then it would make sense to look at Amsoil as a product.
If Amsoil costs the same as Mobil One, I would say go for Amsoil. There is a perceived advantage. But I think that you would agree, Amsoil sells at a premuim to Mobil One. (abeit, considerable.)
Most "average" drivers go 12,000-15,000 miles in a year. An even smaller population change oil at these intervals!!!! So as one can see to buy a product made to go 25,000-35,000 with 13,000-20,000 miles of useful life remaining is at best oxymoronic. (technically that is 50% waste)
The 2 brands in my garage right now are Citgo SuperGard (5W30 and 10W30) and Chevron Supreme (10W30). Wal-Marts in my area haven't had the 5W30 Chevron for about a year. I also have some Mobil Delvac 1300 15W40 which I used in an effort to reduce oil consumption in one of our vehicles. Will probably try it again in the spring. The Citgo is $1.13/qt at Meijer and frequently has a $4.80 case rebate. Chevron is $1.08 at Wal-Mart. Some Costco Wholesale stores have it even cheaper, but not my local ones. Some of the more expensive dinos such as Pennzoil and Castrol GTX seem good too, but I see no reason to pay > $1.50/qt for them when cheaper, as-good alternatives are widely available.
Problem is most of the oil analysis results that I have seen on Amsoil ( my own included, and I have a binder full of them) indicate that the oil can not go beyond 15,000 miles and still provide good protection. In my Toyota I know it can't and I have years of analysis to prove it. So please, I use the stuff in 5 cars but no AJ hype please. Only under ideal and I mean ideal conditions can Amsoil go 25,000 miles in one year but under 99.9 % of driving conditions we are looking at 7,500 maybe 12,000 max on this stuff. It certainly did not prevent the Toyota V6 sludge factories of 1999-2001 from sludgin up, and yes, Amsoil was used in some of these.
If what you are saying is true, then the premuim paid for Amsoil is total over kill over Mobil One!
The other thing is that the Toyota V-6 sludge problem probably means that there are some areas in the engine that the oil washes over that exceeds 450 degrees.
If I ever considered a Toyota V6 Camry vs a Honda Accord V6, I know which to get and not get. I have used Toyota products for a over 15 years. So while not good news, it is critical to know.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;- - f=3;t=000368
Oh, the warranty is not worth the paper it is printed on and has never paid off and never will because under Amsoil's definition the oil can never fail, it has to be an engine defect!
I stand by my previous posts, and remarks about the oil that I market. I work very closely with every customer, and account that I service. And I do not bash any product. I give the best info. that I can.
In summing up: Oil analysis interpretation is very subjective. And oil life has many variables. An we should let drivers make their choices for themself with them being as informed as possible.
Why I came on strong to you is simple, you came across as an Amsoil zealot (also referenced your site to market the product) who feels that there is only one product ( Amsoil) and that it performs as marketed in every scenario. There are other great products as well, RedLine, Royal Purple and all do as well or better, depending on the application, as Amsoil, as does Mobil 1. I have my proof, via analysis that it depends on the engine, driving conditions, climate, driver etc. as to how long an engine can go between changes and in my 5 vehicles it would not go 25,000 miles let alone 15,000. I still use it. Why, a good product and I get it dirt cheap as I live in a city with a distribution center.
The Amsoil reps on Bob's site concur that no one should go beyond 7500 miles with Amsoil or any oil without analysis and I totally concur with them; my experience shows this to me. One rep even refuses to sell the Amsoil air filter as he feels it is not up to snuff ( I agree based upon 3 vehicle uses of these, oil analysis (silicon went down after returning to OEM paper) and they fell apart from the heat after 3 years) What I like about Bob's board and the reps there is that they are willing to state that some products work great for them others they do not feel comfortable with. They are not zealots. The zealot has given the Amsoil name a bad reputation and that hurts sales more then being objective and reasonable about all products.
Oh, I did not mean to bash Amsoil on their warranty, the Quaker State one, Mobil 1 also are all worthless as one can never ever prove the oil was the cause of the failure. And, it was not an opinion, Amsoil has never ever paid off once on its warranty, even with the Toyota sludged engines (yea, I know design flaw). So, I guess if one is going to post a warranty it should be noted that, by the way, no one has ever shown that the oil was the cause of the failure.
So, as long as we do not become unrealistic zealots of one product as being the best I think we can all live peacefully on this forum.
I think the Toyota V6 sludge question really hammers home the point that the oil OEM's will not stand behind a repair with their engine oil in it!!
I also made the decision to stay with OEM air filters both on the TLC and the Corvette due to more particulate and dust pass through of which you speak than the derided OEM filter.
I will ask my mechanic or oil change tech next time I see them but so far I see nothing.
felt that if the foam element is oiled without complete drying, (I tend to have a spare) overnight, they will tend to dry out. Apparently, when oiled without complete drying, the oil holds the moisture in the foam, and degrades it in a season or two. What about your preferances on oil filters. Which do you tend to use? Have you used any bypass filtration? And yeh, I do not push the 25, and 35k. Like you said, every case is very different.