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Nor was I trying to imply that the market is 50% dino, 50% synthetic.
Was simply trying to say that it's not a real easy choice for the relatively few consumers who actually take the time to think about it. I put both of us in that group, as well as most of the people who read these types of forums. Most people just go down to Jiffy Lube and have it changed. They may not even know such a thing as 'synthetic motor oil' exists. That's too bad, because they might prefer synthetic, for various reasons (environmental, spend less time due to fewer changes, better performance of synthetic, etc.) if they researched it. I've researched it, and continue to do so. I've made my choices, and switched back and forth, even stopping in the middle (synthetic blends) along the journey.
I would agree with this above post. Since Mobil One lost the "hydro cracked case", there is at once: more choices and less choice.
If I was searching for a "synthetic" today, three come to mind: Redline, Amsoil, Mobil One.
Most of the other brands dance too much around legalism's about the fact they are using inferior base stocks than the above three and in fact don't want to come out and say they are using hydro cracked formulations. So in fact, after the legal decision, the door is wide open for much lower standards for "synthetic". And if that is not bad enough, you will find out how they perform WAY too late!
While I have read the technical definition (wonderful reading during root canal surgery), I am by NO means an oil expert.
I just try to get enough knowledge to be an informed synthetic oil consumer.
It seems several of the on-the-shelf PAO synthetics (Valvoline and Quaker State come to mind) have gone the way of Castrol Syntec and are not true synthetics any more. Besides Mobil 1, I don't know of any other oil available off-the-shelf at auto parts or discount stores that still claims to be a fuly PAO- or ester-based oil. Perhaps Chevron Supreme?
I read this in passing and dont have the source but it said that the production costs are fairly similar for synthetic and conventional. However, the new SL standard put in a higher cost rate than the old SJ. So with the new lower standard, the cost structure can be dropped for the hydrocracked synthetic. This to my way of thinking makes me glad I am using Mobil One that in fact does use the higher group rated base stocks etc.
If you read the Chevron website they will say 100% synthetic (no footnote as to whether this is the pre or post hydrocracked Mobil One case definition) but the code word to look for is group three!!? (it is not there, or hidden away so well that I glossed over it) Not to mention that Chevron is the premier hydrocracked producer. (Sort of like going to hell and asking for the "heaven" section)
Ah, the pursuit of profit at all costs!
Perhaps I mis spoke.
Chevron does offer a "Chevron Supreme 100% synthetic oil" That is documented on their web site. I don't have the web site on this computer file, at the moment, so will post it from another if folks are interested.
Thanks for the heads up on Amsoil XL. On researching their web site, it didnt seem like the A ticket product as others. Now we have more information!
With Chevron being a leader in the hydrocracking field, it would seem likely that their 'synthetic,' like that of many other major brands on the shelf, is NOT a PAO- or ester-based product. But I haven't seen anything conclusive, one way or the other.
Would Chevron say "100% synthetic base stocks" to describe hydrocracked base stocks? The verbiage in the quote suggests it IS a PAO- or ester-based oil. I'm not saying I think it is, but that's how it sounds.
That page must be pretty outdated - it mentioned SJ and ILSAC GF-2 but made no mention of the current SL and ILSAC GF-3. Perhaps Chevron's Synthetic previously was a true synthetic, but they have since changed to a group III 'synthetic' like many other competitors?
That was my take also. I also found a reference to the GM 4178M specification (suitable for use in Corvettes)
I think the stuff sells in the typical off-the-shelf 'full synthetic' ballpark - $4 or so a quart. Not sure though.
Now, what's the advantage? I can't go 25k miles, as it says "25k miles or 1 year", and 1 year is about 12-14k miles. So, we're looking at about 4 regular oil changes (at 3k each), or 1 synthetic oil change at about 6 times the cost. I'm figuring 1.30/qt (Castrol @ WalMart) vs. 8.35/qt (Series 2000 from amsoil.com store). Am i missing something?
I think you hit the cost comparisons on the head! If you only go between 12-14k per year, which is app what I do per year, in effect you are changing out your oil while it has app 12k more useful miles or useful life left.
Very instructive, but beyond the scope of this topic, is the double filtering and preoiler systems for "extreme" mile oil changes. (Amsoil vendors do sell these systems) Again if most or 60% of an engine's wear is at start up and 25k or more miles per year is the scenario, this is certainly a very good option.
Again if one goes 25k per year or more, this is probably of benefit VS a 3k oil change cycle is 8-9 oil changes in a year. If not, then the real killer is the caveat that ALL the premier synthetic oil OEM recommend and that is once a year oil changes!
"Is SynPower a full synthetic? Is SynPower motor oil PAO or ester based? Does it require a special filter?
Yes, SynPower is 100% synthetic. Synpower uses a proprietary combination of various types of synthetic base oils to obtain optimum performance.
No, a special oil filter is not required with Synpower."
Please provide info to conclusively dispute this.
BTW, Citgo Supergard Synthetic Blend also contains PAO at about 20%...if you can find it.
I use the )w in one car and the 10W in 4 others. If you live in a very cold winter climate teh 0W will be the choice. I leave it in year round with no problems
I also decided to run 5W-30 instead of the 5W-20 that was called for, but that is a different thread!
Good for you! The engine runs slightly better and is just at the SOTP perception zone.
I just recently did a 15k oil and filter change interval on my Toyota Landcruiser (@14k miles, why? used oil pick up is this tues
While it certainly will not hurt your vehicle to change at 3-4k intervals, it can certainly more than comfortably go the oil change interval that your owners or service manual recommends (usually 7.5k?)
1) I seem to be exhibiting obsessive-compulsive behavior toward my new car,
2) I have 5k miles on my car, when I changed the oil most recently (4th change so far) the oil was so clear we could hardly see it on the dipstick, it was great!
3) An old auto buff whom I respect told me to change every 3k, even using synthetic. He said it is not that expensive to make the extra oil changes so better to err on the side of safety,
4) I am not a big believer in the efficacy of oil filters, I believe the best oil filter is an oil change. I think there are acids and byproducts that can build up in the oil under high stress conditions (short commutes) that the filter cannot remove.
5) Lack of experience with synthetics, I have that 3k mindset I guess.
I hate to mention this but to show I am open-minded, I am reminded of an old Red Fox joke when I think about going overboard on preventive maintenance: "I know a guy who quit smoking. He got runover by a tobacco truck".
Maybe that joke is not that funny after all; it actually makes me a little nervous! Better do another oil change after I get done washing my hands for the fifth time in the last half hour, maybe it will help with my anxiety! LOL
If you plan to do synthetics, I would do one of three: Redline, Amsoil, Mobil One. This is in order of price. Some would also argue this would also be in order of quality.
I chose Mobil One synthetics, for the price/ performance. I like the fact that with synthetics you can go much longer between changes. On mine the fluid changes are scheduled at 30k intervals. With the synthetics, I would not hesitate to go to 60k intervals.
While I would certainly read the owners and service manuals for the precise products your vehicle may need. Mobil One synthetic gear oil 75w-90 and or 80w, ATF come to mind.
I like also the fact that the drive train tends to sound and feel smoother in operation and the combination on my vehicles anyway seems to gain app 1-2 mpg., which on a TLC any little bit helps!
I use the Amsoil ATF and oil but for gear oil, strictly RedLine
At $5/qt, the cost was bearable since I wasn't using tons of fluid.
One potential drawback is the Mobil 1 gear lube isn't available in very many weights, IIRC. I used their 75W90 even though Isuzu called for 80W90 - my thought is that this is a pretty similar weight and the Mobil 1 in 75W90 surely can do the job of a conventional 80W90.
I'd say changing the Mobil 1 oil every 3-4k miles, and paying the dealer to do it, actually IS much more expensive than other alternatives. This is obviously 4x or more more costly than changing the oil yourself and using conventional oil. Or comparing synthetic at 3-4k with a 6-8k interval, that's twice as expensive.
If you are going to be spending that much, maybe you should start doing oil analysis. An oil analysis that shows the oil is still holding up well at 4k miles might give you the comfort to go further.
Have you considered changing the filter, possibly at home, around 3-4k miles, and allowing the oil to stay in until 6-8k?
3-4k Mobil 1 change intervals is surely good care for your care, but quite expensive. What's the crankcase capacity for your vehicle?
Cars are complicated devices with hundreds of different systems that can crap out. Having an engine that goes a half million miles when the rest of those systems bite the big one at 250 can only cost you money.
They don't have it all the time, but every month or so they set up a display of these with 5&10w30. Stock up the garage with 1 or 2 when their available.
My 2nd question is how long of a oil change interval could I go to? I use a 5,000 mile interval on my F-150 with the same engine. The driving I do is 25 miles to work, a few miles of stop and go during the day, and then 25 miles back home again. Should I stick with 5,000 or could I stretch this? I like to be conservative, and don't want to pay $20 for an oil analysis.
Some Mobil 1 users would say you could go much further than 5,000 miles without analysis. Personally, my comfort zone is 5-6k miles and anything beyond that seems like too far. Since I haven't done oil analysis before, 6k miles is the longest interval I've ever used.
Is your 25-mile trip to work a highway trip, city trip, combo, etc.?
I also do not use analysis due to the above change intervals. The expense of frequent analysis is directly offset by the cost of an oil change. So other than the somewhat trivial info an analysis would provide me I see no tangible benefit to conduct them. I know others disagree and that's fine; different strokes and all that.
It sounds like a change plan at every 5K interval is a wise one.