Synthetic motor oil

ruking1

Actually a good point! While there seems to be an underlying assumption that all cars are relatively the same, the fact of the matter is they are not, or the real deal: FAR FROM IT.

blufz1

Something is wrong with your calcs. Or does it have long warm up periods?

avalon02wh

"If you read what I actually did, it was not as you described. It was... as I described. This of course does not mean you can not conduct your own (lab) experiment IAW your stated protocol."

I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about conducting a lab experiment. What I was trying to determine was how you handled all the variables. Some variables like traffic can be short term, some variables like winter/summer blends and weather are seasonal, and some variables change over the long term like the age/condition of the car.

From what I can read on the web about oils, energy conserving oils get 1.5% better than a reference oil and energy conserving II oils get 2.7% better. Mobil One 15W-50 is not energy conserving.

http://www.mobil.com/Canada-English/Lubes/PDS/IOCAENPVLMOMobil_1_15W-50.asp

As others have mentioned, viscosity seems to be a critical factor.

avalon02wh

"Those may be your assumptions, but have you really tested and quantify that?"

Yes. I have recorded mpg in a spreadsheet(s) for the last 20 years or so. When I graph the numbers I get rising mpg until some point followed by a slow decline. Each car is a bit different but they all follow the same pattern. Seasonal differences are also very noticeable. And of course the city versus highway tanks of gas are very obvious.

Here is another way to look at the data.

Listed below are my mileage numbers over 4 years. The first column shows the mpg rounded to a whole number. The second column lists the number of times the car averaged x number of gallons. For example, the car had one tank where the average was 12 mpg, and 9 tanks at 23 mpg.

MPG Times
12 1
13 0
14 2
15 7
16 8
17 8
18 8
19 6
20 4
21 6
22 5
23 9
24 16
25 14
26 8
27 16
28 7
29 5
30 2
31 2

Lots of variables.

ruking1

So all you need to do is to go another 20 years and have a side by side run with conventional (which I would SWAG is what your posting is based)/synthetic which is the nexus of this thread. It doesn't change the theory or relationship now does it? So all you seem to lack is the synthetic side?! So get cracking and let us see your results. I posted mine.

The variables were pretty much the same, 54 mile R/T commute but one 10,000 mile interval with conventional oil and 20,000 miles with synthetic oil. Since the data was taken over 30,000 miles (18 measurements) your mph/time was NOT an unaccounted factor. If you read the post, the synthetic oil used were not 15-50 !? Indeed if it was, the data further would indicate viscosity was not the factor at work. The fact that you posted this indicated you really didn't read what I posted and were probably more interested in posting your agenda; for your theory of the up and down peaks of mpg over miles or whatever you wish to refer to it as being the real causal factor here. It is NOT unaccounted for nor the cause. It is as you say a variable. And there are lots of variables, I would agree.

ruking1

While related to synthetic oil, but not as a variable as I have been using synthetic oil since new: I have worked on the variable "how" driven to go from a floor of 48 mpg to 51 mpg (3 mpg gain) for a certain trip, I seem to do a lot with this one car.

synlubes

if we go another twenty years on petroliam oil im afraid are language will be arabic we better do something quick

ruking1

Well I for one surely do not think so. But if you do, the language you best be afraid of: CANADIAN ENGLISH. The % that comes to the USA from the middle east is low. While not a majority CANADA is our largest % "foreign" supplier of petrol and nat gas.(a good sized minority percentage) Aboot, mum, and all that.

But I think you are right about the hot air going around. The quick lube industry surveys shows the average OCI at 5,000 miles and the quick lubes do their level best to get that back to every 3,000 miles. So like I have said in this and other threads, we all need to do hundreds of things/thousands of things if the consequences are indeed as dire as the alarms are! However I am sure that if you ask a flaming environmentist advocating less oil use, probably drives a Prius whose oil gets changed every 3/5k!!! Highly, highly, highly disingenuous if you ask me. Especially if you look at the ratio of a barrel of oil it takes to refine and manufacture these so called cheap lubricants!???? Euphemistically 3/5 k oil changes are seen as "CHEAP INSURANCE" My take is that is extraordinarily high operating costs per mile lubricated and consumptive of expotentially higher natural resources than synthetic oil.

Mr_Shiftright

If most manufacturers won't warranty engines with 10,000 OCI, you can forget about people switching to it. If they all do, then all the drivers will, too.

ruking1

I would not disagree. But I think oems are SLOWLY starting to come around. It is not as monolithic as it appears. Indeed as consumers, other than letting the preferences be known, one can vote with their dollars. I have been on vehicle focus groups, and while I did mention it in great detail, the rest of the group looked at me in almost absolute horror. The 3,000 mile brain washing works and works well!

A lot of oem's offer the spectre of 10,000 mile OCI's by offering the oil life monitor (OLM). While it sounds very sophisticated, is probably just a $5/10 chip and/or display cost option. This would of course cause the oems that sell sludge monsters to either re engineer or not offer 10,000 mile OCI's.

While I did not chose these vehicles with a (actually any) high priority of doing 10,000 mile OCI's, the warranty periods have come and gone with no issues on Honda Civic 10,000 miles (conventional oil) , VW 10,000 miles VW spec 505.00, Chevrolet 15,000 miles GM 4178 M, Mobil One 5w30 , all run like the proverbial tops.

krzyss

"if we go another twenty years on petroliam oil im afraid are language will be arabic we better do something quick"

As far as I can tell your current language is not English.
So why are you afraid of Arabic?

Krzys

Mr_Shiftright

Now BE NICE :mad: We are all friends here.

chetj

i am kind of a motor oil nut and all i have read over the years is that just as long as you use a API certified oil at the proper weight you can change your oil at 7500 miles...even longer w/ synthetic but you might want to change filter at 7500 miles...oils are very good nowadays...consumer reports said a few years ago 7500 mile intervals were fine as well, even in tougher driving conditions...stp, prolong and slick 50 arent necessary and may interfere with your motor oil so save your money...my bro in law usually only changes his oil once every 20000 miles, which is not someting i would no do but his engine still runs, but it is a little loud from his neglect...he wouldnt add any oil...that is also very important, make sure the oil level is not too low or too high...i hear startups can also cause wear so if you might as well just idle your engine depending on how long you expect to be parked...or if the cost of gas is a factor too..cold weather is also hard on a engine...it is true that oil protects better when is is a little broke in than new....according to oil samples...my 99 cavalier has 152000 miles on it and engine still runs great... i am sure other things will go on the car before engine , esp living in NE winters with salt and snow...synthetic oil is great and i am using it in my new focus but i think any engine will go 200000 miles easily with the proper maint....walmart oil and filters are a outstanding value believe it or not...supertech oil meets gm and ford standards and their oil filters are as good or better than most...cheap maintenance and very good protection so their should be no excuses for engine neglect...supertech syn oil is also a great value at 3$ a quart...i think it is made by mobil or pennzoil..i would definitely use it if i changed my own oil

avalon02wh

> “So all you need to do is to go another 20 years and have a side by side run with conventional (which I would SWAG is what your posting is based)/synthetic which is the nexus of this thread.”

The mpg numbers were obtained while the car was using Mobil 1 5w-30 synthetic – except for the first 5K. I switch from conventional to M1 right after. I use it because of the great cold starting benefit. Been using it 27 years or so. It saved my bacon a few times when trying to start a car in sub zero temps.

Here is EPAs comment on Engine Break-In
“New vehicles will not obtain their optimal fuel economy until the engine has broken in. This may take 3-5 thousand miles.”

I had an 84 Accord that reached peak oil, I mean peak mileage, at about 25K. I was able to get 45 mpg on the highway at one point. By 100K the best mpg whas under 40. After the first oil change in went the M1 permanently. A while back, I talked to a F150 owner, he said the first 8K was bad from a mpg standpoint. My point is that you can see a mpg improvement when comparing 0-10k vs 10k-30k just because of engine break-in.

>If you read the post, the synthetic oil used were not 15-50 !?

I mentioned Mobil 1 15w-50 because it is not energy conserving. It gets beat by conventional oils so the “synthetic part” does not appear to be the difference. Here is a quote that might explain it better

“The test oil’s fuel efficiency is compared to the fuel efficiency of a reference oil in the Sequence VI-B test. To pass, the test oil must improve fuel economy one to two percent, depending on viscosity grade. SAE 5W-20 must produce higher relative fuel efficiency than SAE 5W-30.
It is interesting to note that the reference oil is fully PAO synthetic SAE 5W-30. To qualify for the GF-3 Starburst, ordinary mineral oils had to beat the fuel economy of the full synthetic reference oil. (It seems there is more to fuel economy than a magic base oil.)”
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=518&pagetitle=M- otor%20Oils%20-%20Fuel%20Economy%20vs.%20Wear

> Indeed if it was, the data further would indicate viscosity was not the factor at work.

Viscosity might be a small factor when you switched from conventional to synthetic. Switching from a 5w-30 conventional oil to full synthetic 5w-30 will still change the viscosity. Here are the numbers from Mobil

Mobil 1 5w-30......cSt @ 40C 64.8 cSt @ 100C 11.3
Mobil Clean 5000 ..cSt @ 40C 62.2 cSt @ 100C 10.6 (5w-30)

How did you compensate for tire wear? I may have missed this from one of your earlier posts.

> The fact that you posted this indicated you really didn't read what I posted and were probably more interested in posting your agenda; for your theory of the up and down peaks of mpg over miles or whatever you wish to refer to it as being the real causal factor here.

Not really. I find the information interesting. I may have missed some earlier posts, these forums sometimes whiz by. My agenda, if you want to call it that, is to see how you handle all the variables. I am not disputing that you got the numbers you did. We both have made direct observations. I look at these posting as flushing out the details. Can we prove the hypotheses that synthetic gives you better mpg?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_Method

shipo

I've been following this discussion regarding fuel economy and synthetic oil for some time now. So far at least, I've never seen any compelling evidence that indicates that synthetic oil improves fuel economy at any given viscosity over conventional oil. That said, I've never seen any compelling evidence that says that it doesn't either. As such, I remain on the fence on this issue.

Then there is the discussion surrounding the mileage at which any given vehicle will obtain its best fuel economy. My two BMWs didn't obtain their best economy figures until well past the 20,000 mile mark. Scientific? No. Compelling? Maybe. Then there is our 3.8 liter 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan. It didn't record its best mileage numbers until last summer when it had over 120,000 miles on it, and that was when running on E10 (fuel with 10% ethanol, which should reduce fuel economy between five and eight percent). On that particular tank, the OBC registered an impressive 423.4 miles at an average speed of 45.77 mph while commuting to and from work, yielding an economy figure of 25.9 mpg. When that van was brand new, similar driving conditions yielded economy between 21 and 22 mpg, and after the 25,000 mile mark, it was able to get upwards of 24 mpg in the summer. Once again, scientific? Nope. Interesting? I think so.

And another thing. The very first economy figures that van yielded were with Chrysler OEM 5W-30 conventional oil. The economy figures from the 25,000 mile range were obtained with 5W-30 Mobil 1 and the economy figures from last summer were with Mobil 1 0W-40. Go figure.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ruking1

"The mpg numbers were obtained while the car was using Mobil 1 5w-30 synthetic – except for the first 5K. I switch from conventional to M1 right after. I use it because of the great cold starting benefit. Been using it 27 years or so. It saved my bacon a few times when trying to start a car in sub zero temps. "

So you are still missing one side of the experiment?

"Here is EPAs comment on Engine Break-In
“New vehicles will not obtain their optimal fuel economy until the engine has broken in. This may take 3-5 thousand miles.” "

Right, this is true and commonly known.

I also have one that does not develop full engine compression till app 45-60k.

In that community again true and commonly known.

"Can we prove the hypotheses that synthetic gives you better mpg? "

I also have been on Mobil One (various viscosities) for over 800,000 miles, so per se, I really have not much to PROVE, one way or the other. Indeed my 10,000 mile OCI on convention oil was because of the Honda owners manual, web site and shop manual recommendation for the oem new fill.

Well, again you didnt deal with the issue of 20,000 mile OCI's with conventional oil. Honda Civic does well with 10,000 mile OCI's with conventional oil.

Indeed I just recently filled up after an alignment at 41500 miles on the Civic. I had been lately getting only 38 mpg or so. On the tank after the alignment I got 39 mpg. So in truth, as you probably well know, it is not all about synthetic oil.

Mr_Shiftright

But really, a person can run one billion miles on synthetic oil and not prove a thing unless they ran a concurrent similar engine on conventional oil which blew up at a lesser mileage.

ruking1

Inherent in your point was my point about running 20,000 k intervals with conventional oil. I really after over 800,000 running synthetic oil have nothing to prove. I also didn't blow up an engine running conventional oil and that was with app 700,000 miles with conventional oil. Indeed engines do blow up that use perfectly good synthetic oil and vice versa. So really as I have said before it is not a magic elixir or bullet.

ruking1

Perhaps lubricating oil use should ALSO be put in (Annual Petroleum Consumption) barrels of oils it took to make the (fuel) unleaded regular product just like in the new www.fueleconomy.gov web site "Energy Impact Score".

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm

So using 800,000 miles /OCI's of 3,000/5,000/10,000/15,000/20,000 miles you get OCI's of 267/160/80/54/40, respectively.

Put whatever oil quantity you wish, but say it is 7 qts per oil change and the quarts come out to 1869/1120/560/378/280.

http://www.sanjosegasprices.com/crude_products.aspx

What Does One Barrel of Crude Oil Make?

Lubricants= .46 gal of refine gals per barrel (42 gals) (59 oz of lubricant per BARREL = 1.84 quarts.

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm...well I don't know if you have anything to prove because I'm not sure what you are claiming with synthetic oil use. If I've been reading you right, your major claim is the convenience and savings of extended oil changes. Fair enough. Well, the savings/ convenience part does seem to exist, albeit not a major benefit. So that's proved.

It would be interesting to run engines on the same long intervals as synthetic and see what happens. If say (and I have no idea about this) an engine was run on the very best conventional oil available for 200,000 miles at 15,000 OCI and nothing happened to it, then the case for synthetic would narrow even further---by that I mean there would be no fuel efficiency argument of note and no preserving engine life argument of note---leaving only a) benefits for those drivers who operate in extremes of climate or in racing situations, and b) a small yearly cost savings--two cases where benefits of synthetic appear to be easily demonstrable.

But if engine failures on test bed engines went up dramatically vis a vis engines run on synthetic for 15K OCIs, that would be pretty decisive evidence.

Even the lab tests leave something to be desired, because while the tests might show the conventional oil breaking down at 10,000 or whatever, it still doesn't predict if the engine cares about that one way or the other in the greater scheme of things.

What I mean is that all these "elements" or "particles" of this and that found in oil analysis might not be as important as they sound to the layman reading the results.

And no, I'm not going to test MY engine with 15K OCIs on conventional oil, thank you very much. :P But at this point I'm operating on common sense, not real evidence at my fingertips.

ruking1

You are hitting PRECISELY the points I have made on this and other threads.

Most folks intuitively and factually will NOT take up the very small challenge to run conventional oil 20,000 miles!

This is interesting for folks who (in the worst case) vilify synthetic oil, such as Mobil One!!!!??? While on the other hand claiming conventional oil is so good!!??

On one hand it is very logical, but on the other hand the behavior is disengenuous.

To me, given 800,000 miles on synthetic and 700,000 miles on conventional oil it is not so much that synthetic oil is so good but over the years conventional oil has been so bad ! ?

How the behaviors and attitudes manifest themselves while synthetic is talked down, NOBODY (including me) really wants their own machines to crap out because they ran 20,000 mile OCI's with conventional oil and it coked up and failed.

jeffyscott

Your post is very confusing so I am not sure exactly what your point about What Does One Barrel of Crude Oil Make? is.

But, of course they are not going to make a lot of lubricating oil, because less of that is needed by the market. If more lubricating oil were needed, they could (for example) make more of that and less fuel oil.

You do realize that the 1.84 quarts of lubicating oil and the 19 gallons of gasoline and all the other products listed are coming from the same hypothetical average barrel, right? They don't take a barrel of crude, make just the ~2 quarts of motor oil out of it and throw the rest away.

ruking1

Of course. Again it gets back to the magic wand again. Overall demand will not decrease if the markets make an overwhelming case for ever increasing demand by purchasing more!!?? So why should one be surprised when demand actually increases!?

ruking1

..."You do realize that the 1.84 quarts of lubicating oil and the 19 gallons of gasoline and all the other products listed are coming from the same hypothetical average barrel, right? They don't take a barrel of crude, make just the ~2 quarts of motor oil out of it and throw the rest away. "...

..."Put whatever oil quantity you wish, but say it is 7 qts per oil change and the quarts come out to 1869/1120/560/378/280. "...

Ultimately, if you wish to put it is very basic terms; what is more or less consumptive of resources, a 3,000 mile OCI or a 20,000 mile OCI? @ 7 qts per change,i.e., 47 qts or 7 quarts?

/4= 1.75 gals vs 11.75 GALLONS?

Now multiply x 235.4 M cars in passenger vehicle fleet. Average USA yearly mileage of between 12,000 to 15,000 miles.

jeffyscott

Yes, but whether it is 12 gallons per year or 2 it is a very small part of oil use. I don't think the average car puts on 20,000 miles per year and takes 7 quarts of oil.

I do think 3000 mi OCI is a waste...who does that any more?

I would think the average car goes about 10,000-15,000 miles per year, so I would look at 2-3 oil changes vs. one. My guess is a more typical difference between synthetic and conventional would be maybe 5 quarts vs 10 or 15.

The car doing 20,000 miles is probably using somewhere around 800 to 1000 gallons of gas per year. So your figure of an extra 10 gallons is only about 1% of usage. Note that the 20,000 mile/7 quart driver could reduce oil usage by about 5 gallons just by going to 5000 mi OCI.

Rather than try to convince Americans to change oil less often or to use synthetic, it would be more effective in reducing oil usage to convince them that a 3000 pound vehicle with a 4 cylinder engine is as adequate in the US as it is in the rest of the world, they don't need that over-powered V6. The best way to "teach" them this would be to have gas go up to about $5 per gallon.

Another question is does it take more or less energy to actually produce the synthetic oil compared to conventional. Why is synthetic so much more expensive? I have no idea, but wonder if part of the answer could be that it takes a lot of energy to produce the synthetic product???

ruking1

Well, I would vote folks like you pay 5 per gal and drive ill designed 4 bangers.

I'd like to pay less per gal and STILL get 50 mpg in my 4 banger TDI.

chetj

from what i hear...to conserve i imagine...api certified oil can go 7500 according to tests...but people must check oil to maintain the right level...my bro in law went 28000 miles on his camry..car has 175 k now but engine is louder than it used to be...mainly coz he was 2 quarts low...some people just dont care...but 3k oil changes are a complete waste...turbos need synthetic...i talked my in law into buying syn for his vw turbo..shocked that he did

thundrjet

I just bought an 05 tbird and I usually use Mobil 1 synth. oil in my vehicles. The owners manual calls for 5w-20. What weight of Mobil 1 should I use as I don't think it comes in 5w-20? Also, what is the best method or product for cleaning and protecting the convertible top. My top is a light blue or grey color. :confuse:

Thanks

ruking1

Actually they come in both 0w20,5w20.

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-20.aspx

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_5W-20.aspx

Some folks have issues with either. (I do not personally) but if you are willing to do more research and or be responsible for the "deviation" the 0w30, 0w40 have been shown (oil analysis) to be also excellent choices.

matriculated01

I have a question and I would appreciate it if some of you guys who I'm sure know way more about this stuff than I do would share your opinion. I have a 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0L 6-cylinder engine with 103,000 miles on it. I bought it used at 93,000 miles and since then changed the oil every 3k miles using regular Valvoline 10w30 oil. I don't know what the previous owner used. There are no oil leaks and it does not seem to eat oil up at all. I live in TX, so obviously it gets pretty hot in the summer. I've been wondering if I should make the switch to synthetic, but I'm reluctant because regular oil seems to be doing just fine, and I hear that Valvoline is one of the best regular oils on the market. Is this true and should I make the switch to synthetic? I plan to keep my Grand Cherokee for many years to come and put many many miles on it, and I dn't know if synthetic is what I need. Comments welcome.

Mr_Shiftright

If you are talking about really punishing heat, as in 95 degrees and up, coupled with high speed driving and AC use, yeah, I think I'd try synthetic. That's severe enough service to actually extract some benefit out of the synthetic's excellent high heat characteristics.

What I used to do is switch back and forth depending on climate and use. When I was planning summer trips across the desert in my Porsche, I always used synthetic, but in the temperate months in California I used regular oil.

blufz1

I'm a Texas boy. Here's what I do re the heat. Change atf 25k or 2 years and keep it topped up. Keep your oil topped up to the upper mark on the dipstick. Change the coolant 25k or 2 yrs. and keep it topped up. Don't overfill! Just keep each item to the top mark. What weight oil does the owners manual call for? You could contact the former owner and see what he/she used. Hope this helps.

1racefan

I have a car that only gets driven about 6,000 miles per year, and sits in the garage a lot - we mainly drive it when we go on vacation, or are taking day trips. I have been using synthetic, and changing the oil every 6 months.

In a case like this, am I better off to use synthetic or regular, considering the amount of time the car just sits, and my 6 month oil change interval?

ruking1

If it were me, I would keep the synthetic and change it MAX once a year (6,000 miles). Normally I would just keep the synthetic in there till 15,000-20,000 miles. In your case, this would be 2.5 years to 3.33 years.

tamu2002

I'm curious. With synthetic, why not extend it beyond a year. What's the harm?

ruking1

The first recommendation was in keeping with most folks incredulousness. The second part was what I actually have done and continue to do. Which would you like me to address? The one year? Or up to 3.33 years?

tamu2002

I was just wondering if there was any technical reasons. It sounds good enough to me. Have a good one.

ruking1

Well there is a technical reason, but most folks will usually not know, for most folks do not do oil analysis. So in effect the oil still has useful life.

sandman46

My Civic has this and it seems to be pretty good actually. I'm only doing 5k change intervals until I use up my 10k and 15k free oil changes. I will go down to 20% or 15% after the 15k change. With my 90% city driving, I'l probably have to swap it out every 7 months or so.

The Sandman

ruking1

I think the OLM is a good indicator. The real question for the synthetic oil is how close to each other are they(oil analysis to OLM).

sandman46

That's why I am perplexed about dino vs. synthetic for my particular application. The longer change intervals of synthetic plus the better protection are pros for synthetic. But betting that the OLM is truly accurate and that dino oil has gotten much better, make the decision a bit harder. I have friends with my car who use synthetic and go by the OLM monitor. If I could know that the monitor would reflect the longer change interval with the synthetic in the car, it would be a no brainer. The longer change interval would trump the extra $ it costs.
I wonder if the monitor has the capability to know what kind of oil is in the car and adjust itself accordingly? Could a computer chip really have the ability to know this?
Interesting question.

The Sandman

ruking1

Well here is the drill 7 tbn vs 12 tbn. So for example if you have a 10,000 mile OCI on a 7 tbn basically that is 1700 miles per tbn. So that being true now you factor in the synthetic and that is now like 18,000 miles. This of course can be verified against each other.

avalon02wh

The computer chip does not know what oil is in the car (brand A 5w-30 vs brand B 5w-30). To determine the type of oil you need to take it to a lab for analysis. Next time I see a copy of Standard Methods (lab methods and procedures) I will see if they mention how to do an analysis of oil. In the future it might be possible to enter the oil type in the computer and allow it to adjust accordingly. I am not sure how easy it would be to keep the oil database in the car updated if you were to track every different oil on the market. I wonder how the computer would adjust if you use an additive.

"The patented engine oil change technology involves computerized monitoring of engine revolutions, operating temperature, and other factors to optimize the change interval selection."

http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=77&relatedbook- group=Lubrication
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

avalon02wh

I would agree with you about the whole 4 versus 6 issue. If a 158 hp engine works in the Camry buying a 268 hp V6 is pure vanity. I learned my lesson with my current car. The extra hp is not needed. But that is a discussion for another thread.

Related to you question regarding " does it take more or less energy to actually produce the synthetic oil compared to conventional." I would say yes. The synthetic chemical parts first need to be refined then mixed. We probably need a chemical engineer to tell us the exact numbers.

And for the record, I use a synthetic because it is easier to start the car in sub zero temps. I have not seen enough good data suggesting synthetic gets better gas mileage than a conventional oil. Since I am using the synthetic for winter it doesn't make sense to switch in the summer. Don't like the idea of mixing oils. The reported high temperature benefits of Mobil One also is a plus. I change my synthetic based on the CAR manufacturers recommendation (5K). Switching back to conventional would save me $50 a year (2 changes/year).

xwray

It is very annoying (to me) that an information dialog box pops up when my cursor passes over a posters name. Don't get me wrong, that part is OK. What is annoying is, at least on my system, is that the box tends to stay there when the cursor moves off of the name. On most popups of this type I am familiar with it works that way but here they want to stay on the screen. Is there a way to turn this off or any idea what might be misconfigured on my PC that would cause this?

thanks

jeffyscott

Same thing here. I was looking for a forum issues discussion to complain, but could not find one...so I'll complain here:

Turn this stupid, annoying, obnoxious pop-up feature off, edmunds. :mad:

I have found it will usually go off if your cursor crosses over the name again.

ruking1

Right, but this is a relative can do easy (conceptual point of view) in that now the olm will have a 7 tbn and 12 tbn setting. Some oil manufacturers even have 9 tbn.

Since I have one oem make and model that specs Mobil One 5w30 and oem recommendation of max of 15,000 miles/1 year, the olm is by defintion/default a 12 tbn variety. The miles per tbn are app 1500 miles. Tbn is one major indicator of useful oil life remaing. It is much more technical than that, but we don't want folks eyes and ears to glaze over.

The reference to tbn is really not not well known and published, even by specific manufacturers and their specific product web sites. Suffix to say it is inherent in the targeted and certified specific oil standards.

imidazol97

blane, "Forums Software! Your Questions Answered..." #3521, 24 Mar 2007 6:56 am

Software forum discussion.

blufz1

WHAT JEFFEY SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jeffyscott

Thanks, I posted my complaint over there too. Others are complaining over there also.