Synthetic motor oil

beancountant

I tried to look for topic on air filters but could'nt find your input, so I'd like to know which best air filter to use,
a Purolator air filter or K & N? In terms of its filtering ability. I know the K&n's provide less restriction on air going into the engine, but I'm concerned about engine protection. I went to their website but its all advertizing!
Thank you. :confuse:

shipo

I'm probably not a good person to ask such things of due to the fact that I'm a tad biased, as such, my advice to you is worth exactly what you paid for it. ;-)

Air filters: Never, never, never use an air filter element other than a factory/OEM (or suitable replacement) unit. Period, full stop, the end.

Best Regards,
Shipo

blufz1

What Shipo said. In all the tests I have seen the after market filters simply don't filter as well as the OEM filters.

Mr_Shiftright

I think that a drop-in K&N filter without any modification in the intake system is a complete waste of money.

chetj

i know they discontinued it...WM was selling it for a buck...advertises that it boosts additive and antiwear of oil which wear out eventually..does anybody know anything about this product or lucas oil stabilizer...doesnt seem like a bad idea if it is true...thanks

shipo

If the additives in your oil are worn out, it's for a damn good reason. Said another way, it's time to change your oil.

So, "...any thoughts?"

Yup, oil of snake.

Best Regards,
Shipo

chetj

i am glad you responded because you seem to know your stuff...i am very leery now of oil additives after reading about slick 50 and others...i have also seen ethanol in many stations now...i side w/you, buy 100% gasoline if available..more btus...so basically all a carowner needs to for gas and oil is use api certified oil every 7500 miles(normal driving) and buy a name brand gas (proper octane for vehicle) and forget about it...all these gas and oil additives are a waste of money...i am very conscious of my oil changes, maybe that is why my cars run a long time...i know many who arent, my bro in law went 28000 miles (with the last 8000 a quart or 2 low) on his last oil change...and car is still running albeit a little louder ...175 k on car...not something i would ever do, but oils are very good nowadays to take that kind of abuse...i have noticed more 10% ethanol signs lately..less mpg..ugh...thanks again leo

mickeyrom

Great post,I dont know how I missed it before.I will be changing the synthetic in my KIA I4 every six months,and less than 6,000 miles.Almost all highway,so they would be hard pressed to call that heavy duty.

I have a 97 Chrysler with a 3.8, and it is used almost daily,but for very short trips.I doubt if it's as much as 2000 miles per year.I plan to start synthetic oil next week and change once a year.How do you feel about that? Is the time interval as important as the mileage.Anyone else out there have any thoughts on this,jump on in.

chetj

consumer reports did a big study 4 or 5 years ago and said 7500 miles is ok even for taxis in city driving...i would think most synthetics can go 10000 miles easy...6000 miles is just a waste of money, go at least 8,000...just use reg oil for the chrysler for 2000 miles a year...my opinion...i know the engine runs best when the oil heats up a little so you might want to leave engine running long enough to burn off condensation on muffler at least...supposedly start up is hard on a engine...oils are very good nowadays...I like CR, they are reputable... ..there is also one on mobil one website where their product went at least 7500kin las vegas heat in taxi service and the oil held up fine...somewhere on internet a person put mobil one thru a 17000 mile test with oiltested every 1000 miles,the one filter change at 9,000 and oil made it to i think 17000 miles before they decided it had about run its course...3000 k oil changes are very outdated....wikipedia will say the same thing

nicklebanon

FWIW - Not an expert, but spend a lot of time behind the wheel on the interstate doing sales work and do my own simple maintenance. Typically I buy 3 yr old 30K mi cars nearly out of warranty and switch to Mobil 1 10w30. Driving approximately 3500 miles per month, I change the filter and top off the oil each month, and then change it at about 15000 miles. Cars run great, sound great, virtually NO oil consumption and save me the mess of draining it more frequently. Sell the car to a friend at about 150000 miles.
However I do NOT recommend this if you do short hops in town - it is critical to get your engine hot frequently to boil off contaminants in the oil, and change oil frequently if you do not. Some manufacturers probably got a little overzealous with these recommended 7500 mi oil changes, and when folks took them seriously they started sludging up and destroying motors.

ruking1

I am not sure what your owners manuals recommend, but if they do recommend a 5w30, it might be a better pick. Ow-30 is even a tad better, but it is not always available and when available is not always on sale such as a 5-10w-30 would tend to be. Given your miles, I would change the filter at the 15,000 OCI.

If I can conclude to what you are alluding, the topping off due to filter change and normal 3,500 oil use/loss DOES indeed replenish the sump chemistry. However it is not needed and can almost be considered overkill. I have been running 15,000 mile OCI's on cars I have and have owned for app 810,000 miles. All the innards are clean as the proverbial whistle.

mickeyrom

I am not concerned about the miles as I dont drive that much.My question is more about the length of time between oil changes.
My KIA will be used almost exclusively on the hwy,so my KIA guarantee should be good.I cant do the 7,500 mile thing because it would exceed the 6 months at which I am required to change oil.
The 97 Town and Country has 149K miles on it and is driven almost always on extremely short trips.Usually less than 2 miles.If I warmed it up before driving,can you imagine the gas consumption?As it is ,it only averages about 11-12 MPG in town.Hwy it's pretty good.
The reason I want to use the Mobil synthetic is so I dont have to change oil as often.Seems silly to change oil at less than 1000 miles.

chetj

i do h-way driving too and i would consider doing what you do but i dont know if i could bring myself to go 15000 miles even with filter change but i am pretty sure M1 could go that far w/ filter change and new quart...i know others have done it successfully...you can buy a 4.5 qt container of M1 at wal mart, put on a 3.00 wm oil filter (made by champion) and you are good for 10,000 miles..$23 for great oil and $3 for a good filter, not a bad deal if you change it yourself..not that i would ever do it, but i know quite a few people who go 20,000 miles between oil changes and their engines make it to 200,000 miles before they start having problems

chetj

i have read that manufacturers or dealers cannot deny warranty service over something like that 6 month thing...that is illegal...esp if you have changed the oil...maybe just use reg oil till warranty runs out and then do synthetic...i know there is info on warranties somewhere on internet, maybe here...i am not a oil expert either..i just bought a focus last year...ford reccomends 5k oil changes, but i am going to at least 8k on M1..maybe i am naive, but i am not the least bit worried about them trying to screw me on coverage..not that they wouldnt, but they would have to show i neglected engine...anyways my focus runs great, went on a 400 mile round trip to montreal and i was very pleased...did 80 mph here and there and engine couldve took more easy...i love M1 and i feel it would be a total waste to go less than 7500 miles on oil..but it is definitely up to you

joker55

i own a Jetta (1999, automatic, 110k+ miles) i was considering making the switch from 10w-30 conventional to a 5w-30 synthetic but wasn't too sure on what advantages i am looking at, as you mentioned above that it helps with sludge and we all know that sludge = bad! lol

is it worth the lil extra $ on oil changes? i've been told i have noisy lifters and was told to put in 10w-30 to help quiet them down, but others are telling me that is completely false and to use a lighter oil so that it flows quicker (makes sense i think) i am nearing my next oil change would like to see what my options are, should i stay with 10w or go down to 5w?, and should i go synthetic or stay conventional?

any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

thanks

shipo

Ummmm, when warm there is zero difference between the flow characteristics of 10W-30 and 5W-30. When cold the latter will flow a little quicker and a little better, but enough to quiet noisy lifters? Uhhh, I wouldn't bet on that one.

How long of an OCI are you using now with conventional oil? How long of an OCI would you use if you went to synthetic oil?

Best Regards,
Shipo

joker55

by OCI do you mean length between oil changes? sorry, i am a complete dumbass when it comes to cars LOL

but if thats what your asking i normally go roughly ever 5000km and not sure how long i would go on synthetic, as long as it is recommended i guess

thanks again shipo

shipo

Sorry about that...

OCI=Oil Change Interval

Hmmm, 5,000 km per oil change is awfully conservative, even for conventional oil. If you decide to go with synthetic and opt for one of the better 502.00 or 503.01 compliant oils, you can most probably get an easy 10,000 to 15,000 kilometers on the oil (depending upon your driving regimine).

Were I in your shoes I'd either use Mobil 1 0W-40 or Castrol Syntec 0W-30 (both of which are 503.01 certified) and then start with a 10,000 km oil change. After a couple of oil changes I'd then send a sample in for Used Oil Analysis (UOA) to determine just how much life is left in the oil. From there you can determine how much further you want to extend your OCIs.

Best Regards,
Shipo

joker55

besides a higher OCI, what other advantages would i be looking at if i made the switch to synthetic?? basically what are the ups and downs of syn and con???

:shades:

shipo

The "Ups":
- Longer OCIs
- Faster flow upon cold start (especially REAL cold starts)
- Much higher heat tolerance
- Virtual elimination of sludging
- Lower volatility (the oil doesn't evaporate as fast when hot)

The "Downs":
- It costs more per quart.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ryan77300d

If one were to overfill a crankcase by about 1/4" over the full mark on the dipstick?

Generally speaking, that is.

-Ryan

jls123

I used synthetic oil in my last Suburban, changing oil and filter every 5-6,000 miles and at 320,000 miles the oil pressure was same as a new vehicle, and no oil burning.

Also, if you work on your car/truck you may want to check out this new technician's tool..

http://www.maxxeon.com/ws1200video.html

shipo

"I used synthetic oil in my last Suburban, changing oil and filter every 5-6,000 miles and at 320,000 miles the oil pressure was same as a new vehicle, and no oil burning."

I certainly should hope so, most likely you've been throwing away perfectly good oil at every oil change.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ruking1

Good report! However you could have had almost identical reports with a min of 15,000 mile OCI or 22 oil changes!

chetj

320 k...i thought american vehicles couldnt go that far?... my friend is using my 99 cavalier w/ 160k and engine still runs strong..maybe the big 3 isnt all that bad

imidazol97

>i thought american vehicles couldnt go that far?...

Why would you think that? It's the maintenance and doing some repairs that happen in all car lines. Somehow the image has formed that certain foreign brands have no flaws and US company brands are the only ones with problems. There were more problems with 80s and 90s in some car lines. But since 1995 the US cars have improved. I have had 150K mile Buicks since 1987. I traded earlier than that on previous cars: who knows what they would have done with 3000 mile oil changes and frequency grease jobs and preventative maintenance... My last two leSabres went 150K mile--my wife made me trade it-- and current one at 150K miles, along with an 03 at 60K miles. Those cars all ran great that I have traded. No clunkers.

Who knows how well they'd do with synthetic oil. I did frequent oil changes and keep watching whether synthetic is for my type of driving in our Ohio climate where we have colder weather to accumulate condensates in the oil on shorter drives...

chetj

actually i was being sarcastic to all those people who complain about american autos..i work for a place that makes parts for the big 3 and others and my new american cars have always run good...less money too..i have always changed my oil at 3k till i found out that was a waste...6k is fine, more w/ syn which i just started using last year...my moms 97 escort still runs w/ 116k and my brothers 2000 malibu engine burns almost no oil at 83 k...my 05 sunfire runs strong as well as my 07 focus...i did find out this week GM is having problems w/ dexcool rotting out gasket on manifold..it happened to my bros malibu i think...anyways my focus is using M1 5-20 and i noticed the uoa's are very good for this new grade on the bitog website...anyone have any thoughts on ford and honda using this relatively new grade? somebody said it is more highly refined

joker55

hey, i was thinking bout making the swtich to syn for my 99 Jetta, but what if i wanted to swtich back to convential, people are telling me you can't

i'm pretty sure that its been discussed here before, but if i were to switch to syn could i swtich back to convential without any ill effects?

thanks

Mr_Shiftright

Yes you can. I've done that for years, adjusting my oils to types of use and seasons in the same car. Porches, Benzes, Scion, you name it.

And in an emergency you can even mix them, though it's not recommended. Better a mixed oil than running an engine low 2 quarts when it needs it.

altair4

Did GM get the bugs out of the ecotec engine yet? My brother-in-law has a Cavalier with that engine and the timing chain failed. What's the point of going to a chain if the dang thing fails at 90K? Apparently it's not an uncommon issue....

krzyss

it was your VW Passat timing belt that was supposed to snap.
Fate follows its own paths ;-)

Krzys

altair4

Hah! If karma had anything to do with it, then the correct engine got trashed!!

Mr_Shiftright

Yes but the Passat belt snaps because it can't get through the sludge in the engine; the Ecotec chain snaps because it probably cost .39 cents to make. Hiccuping engineers vs. Detroit beancounters? :P

altair4

No, no, no...the Passat often snaps because VW used a plastic impeller (WTH were they thinking?) in the water pump. It self destructs, jams the pump (which is driven by the TB), and the engine happily spins on, demolishing the valves, whilst the timing belt is immobilized.

In some models, the earlier B5's, the TB was at risk from a tensioner that wasn't up to the task for the long haul.

Mr_Shiftright

I was thinking of the 1.8T engine. I know that's been a Sludge Monster.

altair4

Oh, make no mistake...without attentive care and feeding, it is. But that's not why the TB is a weak link on the 1.8T.

chetj

after 45 k still runs strong...never thought about a timimg chain, will have to ask my mechanic if i should worry about it

tamu2002

I just changed the oil in our 05 Nissan Quest minivan after 9 months and 9K miles. The van has ~22K miles now. I used Mobil 1 syn 5W30 and Fram Tough Gurad filter. Towards the end, the van seemed to run pretty rough and the mileage seemed to have dropped compared to when the oil was new. I now worry that I may have caused damage to the engine by changing it so late. We had a big move so wasn't able to change it earlier. But again the air filter (still original one) was definitely dirty when I changed it at the same time, which could've caused the rough engine erformance.

My main worry is actually the oil filter. What good is using synthetic oil if the filter gives out after 5K miles? Which brand/model would you experts recommend that will last for 1 year/10K miles?

shipo

Regarding your situation, my concern wouldn't necessarily be the length of time the oil was in the engine (nine thousand miles is WAAAAAY doable with Mobil 1 and late model engines), it would be focused on the oil level. How low was the oil when you finally changed it? How much make-up oil did you add to the engine during the nine months?

Regarding the oil filter, a safe bet is the Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil filters are more than up the the task for ten, twelve or even fifteen thousand mile OCIs.

FWIW, the following picture is from one of our minivans, which due to a very slow head gasket coolant leak I've just started pulling apart. This particular engine is a Dodge 3.8 liter V6 with 143,625 miles on it over nine years. Since 1999 when I converted it over to Mobil 1 with about 15,000 miles on the clock, I've been targeting 10,000 mile OCIs (which usually means that I get to it by the 12,000 mile mark).



As you can see from the above photo, there isn't a speck of sludge anywhere, just nice clean metal. I'll be pulling the actual heads this weekend and take more pictures. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

tamu2002

You comment on the oil level is right on. When I checked the level about 2 months ago, it was at the low mark, so I added almost a quart to bring it up to full.

I meant to send this batch of waste oil for UOA, but since I added a quart of fresh oil, I didn't want waste money on skewed UOA results. I'll do it next time. This time, I'm using the Fram Tough Guard again. Any idea on how long it's good for? It's very small in size, which is why I'm a bit worried about going for too long on that one.

I peeked inside the engine and it looked very clean from what I could see, which was not much.

shipo

I wouldn't worry too much about sending in oil for a UOA after having added make-up oil as the questionaire that you send with the oil specifically asks how much make-up oil you added during the time the oil was in the engine.

Regarding Fram filters... Ummm, not a fan of them to say the least. I know that Fram makes at least a couple different grades, and that some are better than others, however, I've just seen too much noise on their filters to even be remotely tempted to buy one.

Regarding your peek inside your engine, yeah, it had better look good with only 22,000 miles on the clock, if it didn't, I'd be talking to the dealer in a hurry. ;-)

Regarding your comment about filter size... You might want to ask around on the various Nissan and Nissan Quest forums to see if there is an alternative filter size available. For our two vans there are no fewer than three different sizes that will fit. The OEM size that originally came with our vans was what I'll call "Pint" size as it looks like it would displace about 16 ounces if submerged. That said, there is now a new OEM size that has started showing up in various places that under the same naming convention would be called "Cup" size. Then there is the good old fashioned Ford and Chrysler spin on filters that were used on large 1960s and 1970s vintage V8 engines. These old filters still use the same spin-on mount as the latest units being produced. Their displacement? I call them "Quart" sized (i.e. easily 32 ounces of displacement).

Best Regards,
Shipo

blufz1

Don't use the Fram. Use OEM or Mobil 1 filters.

tamu2002

Thanks guys for the commetns. I use the Fram Tough guard which is supposedly much better than the regular. But I think it's time I switch to something else.

dudleyr

I like Purolator One filters with synthetic media.

tamu2002

I'm quite frustrated with the whole filter situation. There's a lot of information out there, but it's mostly based on unscientific, personal testing. Sometimes the conclusions differ on the same filter.

ruking1

Well I think that part of the problem is folks want to turn the oil filter from a commodity type product to a custom one. They also want to run it far shorter on the vague notion that a shorter interval is "good insurance". You can not find it anywhere in the filter or technical specifications about "good insurance".

Fram has not been the cheapest for a very long time. You can go to WalMart and get the SuperTech oil filter when I bought a batch of them at 2.12 per or currently 2.42 per. They are made by one of the better vendors: Champion Labs. If neither are of comfort to you, the OEM ones are another no brainer way to go. (overpriced in my .02 cent opinion) Heck on one application, I run a 2 dollar oil filter (oem) on a Z06 Corvette with 15,000 miles OCI's. It runs like the proverbial top.

However, true custom is not real expensive. These would include bypass oil filters, pre oilers, bigger sumps, even dry sump technology. However for 99.999% of applications, and customers do NOT go for products on the "dark side"!!!!

tamu2002

An UOA would tell if the FramTough Guard is any good at my next oil change.

ruking1

As a practical matter the answer is absolutely yes.

Technically, it is a bit more clouded.

Also while I know this might be controversial, a used filter actually filters better than a brand new. In any case, baring media explosion, a filter is good to go the length of an oil change. So for example, I run a min of 15,000 mile OCI's and change the oil filter when the interval is due.

tamu2002

I certianly hope you're right. Our Nissan Quest 05 van began to make a buzzing noise sometime during the last year. Now with the fresh oil, the noise seems to have disapeared. I'm inclined to believe that the last oil change was long overdue (Mobil 1 5W30, 9 months, 9K miles). I'll do an UOA next time to make sure the oil and filter are good for that duration.

blufz1

T,periodically check you oil level. It may be "using."