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Synthetic motor oil

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes, perhaps I am projecting, but I am not sure where folks get the idea that if there is a switch to so called synthetic oil that the switch precludes topping up the sump!!??

    My own current anecdotal experiences are 2 app 1/2 to 1 quart @ 14,000 miles, another 1 qt @ 5,000 miles, another 1/4 to 1/2 quart @ 20,000 miles and another 1/2 to .75 qt @ 25,000 miles.

    Do I know what the consumption rates would be if I used conventional oil in place of synthetic? NO! Coincidently, I use the oem recommended appropriate Mobil One product. All but one present me with a catch 22.

    So for example, if I am going to change the oil at 15,000 miles and it is 1/2 qt low, why should I top? If I am going to top, why should I change at 15,000 miles!? :)

    This will probably freak the folks out who think 10,000 OCI's and above are voodoo at best, but indeed the topping recharges the additive mix.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Yep, our van does seem to burn oil, maybe a quart every 9K miles.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Right, so app at the 8.5k to 9k mark if you add 1 quart, you will in effect have the catch 22 (assuming a comfort level of course) :)

    Another example if you normally change oil at 9k, then why add? Just change. If you add, as you become more familiar with UOA's, you in effect can extend the OCI a min of whatever percentage 1 quart is of your total sump.

    So for example my sump is 7 qts, so 1qt is 1/7= 14% So if I normally change at 15,000 miles, I can go 14% more (2,100 miles) longer and still achieve similar numbers.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Aside from oiling the engine,I think keeping the oil at the full mark also allows the engine to run slightly cooler. It may only be 2-3 degrees but the highest temp is the most wearing temp. Just my .02.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Now that is a for certain. To use your example, you have one more quart (full specification) that is holding and circulating and getting rid of heat.
  • maassmaass Member Posts: 2
    I recently saw an article in a racing magazine by David Vizard the tech writer. He says that Oil Extreme makes an oil that is better than synthetic, because an additional extreme pressure additive package is added.

    I don't see much in print about extreme pressure, but it seems according to Vizard that it is the answer to less friction and wear.

    Does this make sense? My 2004 Honda EX needs a boost something. Bill
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Snake oil. Just get the Mobil 1 high endurance synthetic at walmart.
  • maassmaass Member Posts: 2
    I appreciate the advise, but it doesn't answer my question,
    just to call it snake oil.

    Have you used this oil, or heard anything bad about it?

    Being a retired engineer, I like to base my decisions on facts. Vizard made such a strong case for the importance of extreme pressure in motor oil. Bill
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If so, you might want to look at the specifications for YOUR particular application. So for example, Mobil One makes the 0w20 to 5w20. You of course know you have to dig around a bit, but it meets Honda's specification in spades (you will need to dig around even more to find out the FORD specification is way more rigorous than Honda's). As a matter of fact, due to the specifications, I run a very conservative 20,000 mile OCI with it. As you probably also know, you probably have a OLM, but the 2004 has a recommended 10,000 mile OCI with CONVENTIONAL oil (7 TBN vs 12 TBN for Mobil One). I would bet the high pressure gig of which you speak, does NOT meet FORD (Honda) specifications.

    If indeed it does, it would probably cost more. Then of course, I would ask: does it now make (increase the chances of )my engine last/ing 2x longer (2x greater than 400,000 miles?) Can I double my OCI to say 40,000 miles, get X % better fuel mileage, etc, etc,.

    https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-20.aspx

    https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_5W-20.aspx
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    I don't use snake oil! :)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Indeed many folks still see Mobil One 100% PAO as meeting the definition OF snake oil! :(:)

    Well I think even if you did, the real question is has it been tested with the current oil you now use. Chances are the answer is NO! Normally the cost benefit analysis makes "the product in question" BARELY justifiable. Most indicate no real advantage. I mean if you look at the benefits of a known product with known benefits(Mobil One synthetic) there is a very very low % who switch and a low overall percentage of folks that use it regularly.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Maybe it's just me. I want the best oil,within financial reason,in my toys. I think Mobil 1 is good enough,tho I am going to switch to the high endurance. It seems smoother in my Honda lawn mower. :)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Being a retired engineer, I like to base my decisions on facts. Vizard made such a strong case for the importance of extreme pressure in motor oil."

    Being an active engineer I have to ask, "Where's the beef?" If Vizard's tales of doom and gloom for all engines not running his super snake oil were true then no engine would make it past the 20,000 mile mark. To counter that point, I just tore down the top end of one of our engines due to a head gasket leak. The engine in question has been in service for eight years and has 143,625 miles on it, and has been oiled with Mobil 1 since about the 15,000 mile mark. So, what do you suppose I found inside?

    - I found the valve train to be perfectly clean.
    - I found the cylinder heads to be perfectly clean.
    - I found the full compliment of honing marks on the cylinder walls still intact.

    Specific to the high pressure areas:
    - I found that the roller-cam followers showed no measurable wear.
    - I found that the valve stems and heads showed no measurable wear.

    Do you understand what I'm saying? No measurable wear after nearly 150,000 miles. Geez, at this rate, that engine will go an easy 500,000 miles. So, I have to ask again, "Where's the beef?"

    While I have no idea who Mr. Vizard is, or what his credentials are, I will say this; from the sound of things, he's a snake oil salesman.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    While I do NOT have a Honda lawnmower, :) I am with you on this Mobil One product line. The high endurance or EP is what I think you are referring, does not meet my oem's specifications and indeed is app $1.00 per quart more. I truly believe it is a no brainer to go 15,000 miles on the EP as promised/advertised, but I have been ALREADY for years (21 years and miles 850,000)been doing 15,000 to 25,000 miles OCI's on the (cheap) normal stuff (Mobil One: 0w20,5w20, 5w30, 5w40.)
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    My lawnmower is my test mule. :)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hi maass!

    Here's a very interesting review of the claims for the extreme oil, from the Viper Club. Conclusion? They ain't buyin' it. Read it and make up your own mind. The reviewer seems to have given a very fair analysis but I don't have the technical expertise to double-check. But it sure makes sense what he says about it:

    http://forums.viperclub.org/showthread.php?t=552068
  • chetjchetj Member Posts: 324
    oil is really good now anyways...let somebody else use it, i wouldnt...any api oil with normal oil changes (6-7k) would be good protection for your engine...200,000 mile minimum, if not much further...synthetic longer than that..in new england winters with the rust and salt, the engine of a properly maintained car would be the last to go..people complain about oil companies but motor oil is really a great product at a low price in my book...chet in NH...162 k on 99 cavalier mostly reg oil, still runs great...now using synthetic for the heck of it
  • phoenixbarbphoenixbarb Member Posts: 6
    I've been using Dino oil in my 00 Buick and know that by switching to Synthetic oil I will be combating global warming in my small way. Less oil used and disposed of along with One yearly oil change will result in less money and time spent too. A western US automotive tire/mechanics charge $54.95 inc. the filter.
    WAKE UP...to those that can't figure if going 100% Synthetic is right...YES...it is Right for all cars. Let's not forget the big picture - we're in an oil war!
    We need to do every little thing we can in our lives to pass on a better world - if it's not too late.
    I'm also not flushing my toilet for #1 either..he, he.
    Barbie in Phoenix - 114 degrees today....another reason to switch out
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    I have my 97 Chrysler on the annual regimen,but my new KIA every six months.That's so I dont blow my warranty.(synthetics of course)At our Walmart it's around $47.00 for the change,but the KIA filter is a bit more.I use the standard Mobil 1 on the KIA and the special Mobil 1 for old cars.They are the same price.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Being Green.

    Excellent reason to use synthetic, of course getting a few more mpg would do more good. ;)
  • davids1davids1 Member Posts: 411
    I'm also not flushing my toilet for #1 either..he, he.

    If it's yellow, let it mellow
    If it's brown, flush it down.

    ;-)
  • joker55joker55 Member Posts: 49
    i would switch but i've been told that its not very good for my car, would cause more problems then solve them, i have quite a few km on my car 181,000 km to be exact, i have been told that if i switch to synthetic, that my gaskets will leak......is this true, i drive a 1999.5 VW Jetta.

    thanks
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    You might want to look at the current recommendations for the 1999 to 2000 model year Jetta 2.0-1.8T? I say current for as late as 2003 (as far as I have been concerned with, so there might be other changes/updates, etc) there has been some (ultimately) confusing standards. So that I am not vague the current standard to check is VW 505.00 for your model year? IF SO, you can most assuredly run Mobil One 0w40. (Euro formula for US markets) You can get the information at the VW dealer, technical data such as Bentley's, TSB updates, web sites, etc. The bottom line is if you DO have gasket weaknesses, which is not likely, it would be better to have them corrected and use the best oil you possibly can.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "i would switch but i've been told that its not very good for my car, would cause more problems then solve them..."

    The above has been repeated so often that it has become a factoid, or maybe an Old Wife's Tale, or maybe even an urban legend. The fact is that that advice is both incorrect and worthless. Then there is the fact that in 2003 (I think), VWoA retroactively changed the oil requirements for your car, and those oil requirements specify VW 502.00 for most of their gasoline powered cars, VW 503.01 for some of their highest performance gasoline engines (normally aspirated and blown), and 505.00 for most of their diesel offerings. What this means to you and your engine is that even though your engine most likely qualifies as needing only the lowest of these standards (i.e. 502.00), you should be using synthetic oil as all 502.00 certified oils are either Group III hydro-cracked synthetic or full Group IV PAO based synthetic.

    In summary, changing to synthetic oil won't cause your engine to leak and is recommended by VW. As for which oils to use, ruking1's recommendation of Mobil 1 0W-40 is a good option, the oil is readily available at many/most NAPAs, Walmarts, Autozones, Mobil gas stations, and many other retailers.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    This seems to be the recommended oil for my '06 Civic LX. Once I get done the 10k and 15k gratis service from the dealer(I paid for it somewhere in the deal!), I'll be wanting to switch over to synthetic and do a once a year oil & filter swap. My mileage for the 1st year with my Civic was about 8300 miles, so I think a yearly change with synthetic would work well for my style of driving...70/30...city/highway.

    The Sandman :)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "My mileage for the 1st year with my Civic was about 8300 miles, so I think a yearly change with synthetic would work well for my style of driving... 70/30... city/highway."

    For your car your best bet is probably Mobil 1 0W-20. Depending upon my next contract, a new Civic is definitely a possibility for me and the 0W-20 will absolutely be the oil I use in it. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    I thought the owners manual called for 5W-20 oil? I also thought y'all were moving to Hong Kong in the near future?

    The Sandman :)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "I thought the owners manual called for 5W-20 oil?"

    It does, however, 0W-20 is simply a better 5W-20 (hence the fact that Honda is recommending it for their blown engines, not to mention the fact that Mobil 1 0W-20 exceeds virtually all of Honda's oil specifications for 5W-20). Basically 0W-20 and 5W-20 have virtually identical flow and protection properties when at operating temperatures, however, 0W-20 flows quicker following a cold start (i.e. before the oil has thinned) and as such, protects better when cold, especially up here where temperatures can reach well into the double digits below zero.

    "I also thought y'all were moving to Hong Kong in the near future?"

    Unfortunately the move to HK has become an "if" not a "when" deal. :-( As such I cannot simply stop working just because we don't know what the next six months have in store for us. We are all going over to HK as a family next month for kind of a "look-see" trip, and right about then we'll probably find out how big the "if" is (and possibly even answer the "when" part too).

    I'll keep y'all posted.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    This is true. I also have been using the Mobil One 0w20 since the first (10k) OCI. (going on 50,000 miles) The consumption rate seems to be app 1/4 to 1/3 qt per 20k. I top up. However at that consumption rate, you can almost let it ride till you change at 20k OCI's.
  • phoenixbarbphoenixbarb Member Posts: 6
    Davids1,
    At least in your own home...why the heck not. The home owner is saving on his water bill and helping the water shortage problem most everywhere that pops up one time or another. If a person MUST flush for #1....he/she is to anal for me.
    I lived in northern California years ago and not flushing the "mellow yellow" was requested by the city of Santa Cruz and a way of life. I just continued this because it became a habit. Once out in the general public most people are offended if they're using the stall after me...I've had a few nasty looks in my day.
    Synthetic Oil = Greener Oil
    I believe that the synthetic oil producers have a hot marketing concept here....are you listening out there in cyberspace??
    113 and trying to stay cool.
    phoenixbarb
  • phoenixbarbphoenixbarb Member Posts: 6
    MOBILE 1 is what they are using out here in the Arizona desert. I called several places and 5 out of 6 were using Mobile 1.
    phoenixbarb
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, it's something like 60 and drizzling outside right now. Ahhh, great sleeping weather. Oh! That and we have our own well that produces water cleaner than bottled water (geez, we don't even use Jet Dry in the dishwasher and the wine glasses come out spotless).

    Our well is nearly 800 feet deep through solid granite. We pump it up, use it, and then give it back via our septic tank. Hmmm, no water rationing and still green too. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Due to a slow but annoying coolant leak I replaced the head gaskets on our 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8 two weeks ago. At the time I pulled the top end of the engine down it had 143,625 miles on the clock and I was stunned to find a full compliment of honing marks on all of the cylinder walls. Stunned? Why? Prior to this engine, the best looking high mileage cylinder walls I've seen were on an old Dodge 318 with 97,000 miles on the clock. Even then that old engine just had a couple of patches of honing marks on a single cylinder.

    Even with the blurrieness of the picture (low light in my garage) one can clearly see the condition of the cylinder wall in the following picture.

    FWIW, all but the first fifteen thousand miles or so have been run on Mobil 1. Initially I used 5W-30, and then switched to 0W-30 when it came out. I then switched again to 0W-40 when it became readily available and haven't looked back since. ;-)

    http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1418/751628521_5567e459ae_o.jpg

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Waaaaaay too much information!!! Let's just leave it at synthetic oil and changes. :)
  • chetjchetj Member Posts: 324
    i have a 07 ford focus with 10k on it...it is getting around 34 mpg with Mobil one synthetic and i am very pleased with the oil... i would definitely use a synthetic if lived in a place that is so hot, they can withstand the heat better than regular oil...you can probably go 10k between changes too
  • chetjchetj Member Posts: 324
    just buy a super tech filter for 3$ and you can change the oil yourself( if possible)...23$, what a deal!...your engine will outlast the rest of your car, especially in new england
  • amsoilmanamsoilman Member Posts: 8
    Mobil one synthetic is an ok oil, Synthetic oil helps with less wear in your engine and helps your enging run cooler that is why synthetic oil works better it does not break down as fast as regular oil. We run Amsoil at our company and we only have to change it every 25,000 miles or 1 year which ever comes first. Amsoil has been tested and has out performed Mobil One and because you dont have to change it as often it saves you money over a years time. You want to have less wear and keep your enging cooler so that your car will last longer go with Amsoil.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    I find I'm hard pressed to believe that one synthetic is able to keep a motor "cooler" than another synthetic. If there were something in Mobile 1 that was not as good as it could be, wouldn't Mobile change it and charge more for it?

    I'll change my synthetic a little more often, thank you. 25000 miles is a little long to collect condensates and all the other side products in my motors in a climate that's cold 4 months of the year.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    We run Amsoil at our company and we only have to change it every 25,000 miles or 1 year which ever comes first.

    Anybody who runs any version of Amsoil for 25,000 miles is a fool. When you quote company propaganda like you are fond of doing all you are accomplishing is to degrade your own credibility. If you want to be a responsible member of this forum and still make such claims, please provide independent and verifiable scientific proof that Amsoil can run 25,000 mile and not have long since been completely exhausted. Better still, go over to BITOG and look at all of the UOAs for Amsoil's best oil that show that it's thoroughly useless by the 15,000 mile mark and then retract some of your ridiculous comments..

    "Amsoil has been tested and has out performed Mobil One and because you dont have to change it as often it saves you money over a years time."

    Tested by whom? Amsoil and their paid minions? Yeah, I'll believe them. NOT! After a couple of years of browsing through the UOA database over on BITOG I've come away with one inescapable conclusion, Amsoil is a good oil, but in no way shape or form a better oil than Mobil 1. As often as I see a particular grade of Amsoil beat that same grade of Mobil 1 (and not by much), I see the reverse where Mobil 1 beats Amsoil (and not by much again).

    "You want to have less wear and keep your enging cooler so that your car will last longer go with Amsoil."

    Uh-huh, prove it (and by that I don't mean spouting the standard Amsoil marketing bilge either).

    Shipo
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    seems like a tide. It comes and goes.

    Krzys
  • phoenixbarbphoenixbarb Member Posts: 6
    There's a KILL JOY around every corner and I've just encountered one. Maybe you so go live in a country where you can control what another one says. Lighten UP...this is AMERICA!!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Did you per chance miss his winking smiley face emoticon? ;)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • amsoilmanamsoilman Member Posts: 8
    MY Bad, Im sorry for being a kill joy God Bless America I will lighten up. Thanks for your comment
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    I was just kidding with you. Lol. Say whatever you want to say. :)
  • chetjchetj Member Posts: 324
    nothing against amsoil, but there must be a reason that half of the intensely competitive nascar circuit runs mobil one...plus many hi performance engines from porsche, cadillac and corvette among others use it as factory fill...i think i would shoot myself before running any oil for 25 k...that being said if it was at walmart for 20$ a jug like mobil one i would try it...i emailed customer service at M1 about questionable claims royal purple made regarding mobil one and he said M1 sells more synthetic than the rest combined and they didnt care what the others said..people can knock exxonmobil all they want for their profits, but they dont sell crap...i would rather see a american company get rich than a foreign company
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    There's a carcare topic here on edmunds that says No Zaino Posts.

    No zaino

    Is it possible to do the same with synthetic oil?synthetics. No Amsoil posts

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That might not work because then all Amsoil posts would have their own topic, basically providing a marketing sector for a product. Zaino doesn't have sales reps...it is only consumers talking about the product, not sales reps selling it.

    We have a rule on solicitation here---if you see any blatant touting of a product for commercial gain, just let any Host know about it.
  • phoenixbarbphoenixbarb Member Posts: 6
    Yes Chet you are right about the HEAT and with global warming it's getting hotter every year here in the valley of the sun. The place I take my car to uses Mobil 1. I am excited to change the oil out and since I'm driving less than 10K a year it will be an easy schedule. It's kind of funny that this synthetic oil change gives me something to be proud of that I'm doing right. They seem to be few and far these days - getting it right. he he.
    What ever little car tips I use that work out for the betterment of my car makes me proud so keep on tipping along. I'm a single woman and everyone knows how much we get taken advantage of in the car world.
    I love this site and you guys are pretty cool and of course informative!!
    Barbie in Phoenix
    p.s. I had a (68 I think) Ford Focus in 72...great car...if I only knew back then.
  • bassprobasspro Member Posts: 34
    Hi All, I read all the posts and the funny thing I did not see in all the statements were if you would utilize oil analysis you might get 25,000 miles out of syn. oil and probably no way with conventional oil. But with even a low tec. Tolet paper bypass filter up to the very expensive centrifical? filter systems you may never have to change oil and just change filters and top off, still requiring an oil analysis for oil change intervals. It is really just that simple and most every driver is different and will have different oil change intervals. MPC
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    No problem there. Seems like a 3,000/5,000 miles OCI now seems a little illogical!?
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