Subaru Crew - Dealers & Pricing

brekke

I think that's a good price. I paid more.

ateixeira

That sounds fair. Any less and your dealer may not be around to service it later! ;-)

-juice

nygreg

Just be sure to take Ray's advice and make sure they don't start adding all kinds of fees on.

Greg

wired1

Does anyone have experience/advice regarding the reliability etc. of the Subaru dealers in the Pittsburgh area? I am looking to purchase an Outback.

I have gotten price quotes from some of the local dealers and I have reviewed the pricing at the Fitzmall....are area or regional dealers able or willing to match these prices?

Thanks in advance.
Tom

paisan

YESSS

During our 48hr drive around the Tri-state area NY/NJ/DE/PA Langston Subaru in Pittsburg hosted us for a late lunch at their dealership. They fixed some of our cars for free and had pizza and other stuff for us. They also are very into the subaru scene and host events and what not all the time. We met with the owner (who has a modified WRX that they race at the track) and the facility was excellent. Brian Tapper is the guy to talk to over there. If I ever buy a new subaru I may drive from NYC to Langston to get it just cause they are sooo nice. Also they have a separate bay/room that they do deliveries in so you can check your car out w/o being out in the cold/hot weather!

-mike

ateixeira

Score one for that dealership! Nice hospitality.

-juice

maxdaddy

I bought a new 2002 Forester last night. I thought I was getting a good deal, $1000 below invoice. However, when I showed up to close the deal, they told me that they'd only give me the special 4.9% financing that I was expecting, if I bought the Gap Insurance for $500. The credit manager claimed the bank required the Gap because my credit was slightly sub-standard. If I didn't take the Gap, they'd only give me the normal rate (about 10%).

The paper work on the Gap Insurance says in big letter, THIS IS NOT REQUIRED TO RECEIVE FINANCING. The credit manager at the dealership told me that it is not required, I have the option of going with the higher rate.

Now I was putting done 30%, so the Gap Ins. is pretty useless to me. But, I took it anyway, because the special 4.9% rate will be worth much more that $500 over the length of the loan (and I was still getting a good price on the car.)

My gut feeling is that the bank had nothing to do with the Gap requirement and that the dealer was trying to squeeze more money out of me. Has anyone ever heard of this as a legitimate practice? Any thoughts on what I can do about it?

kens

It kind of makes sense if you bought GAP insurance for the bank. GAP insurance usually applies to leasing, if I'm correct. If you total the vehicle while under the lease, you basically are not (or only to a small extent) liable for the replacement of the vehicle.

In any event, I think it's too late now that you've signed for it. Have you done a quick calculation to see how much the $500 GAP insurance increased your effective loan rate?

Ken

p0926

Maxdaddy- First off, congratulations on your new 2002 Forester! (FYI: $1k below invoice is an incredible deal) Now about that "GAP insurance", as Ken said, it's too late now to do anything about it. However, with 30% down, GAP insurance would be totally redundant so the dealer was definitely squeezing you for more money.

-Frank P.

dcab

Has anyone here purchased a Subaru using the MBNA coupons?

Are they deducted from the final sales price before the sales tax is calculated or is the sales tax calculated before the coupons are deducted? I've been using the card since '97 and have accumulated $3000 in coupons, so the difference in sales tax is over $200.

My understanding from instructions on the back of the coupon is that the former applies, but a dealership told me that the latter applies.

Thanks for your help.

from_away

Just drove home my new Forester L yesterday. Bought from Quirk in Bangor, Maine.

It's a base model w/5-speed, with the only option the armrest extender.

Nice experience in purchasing. Did a cash transaction with no trade. Dealer was offering $500 under invoice and I didn't expect to do much better than that. But, when we sat done to finalize the deal, I starting talking to the salesman about putting in a single disc CD player.

I showed him an ad from a competitor another 100 miles further away who had a price $400 less than his, and asked him for some consideration in pricing the CD. He offered to install the CD at no additional cost!

Total price paid: $18,840 with CD and armrest. After taxes, documentation, etc. total was $19,980.

Couldn't be more pleased with the price and the treatment.

paisan

Applies in some states to both Leases and Financing. In NYS Gap is included on all leases, and NYS financers agree to take whatever an insurance company gives in the event of a total loss.

-mike

ateixeira

Congrats to maxdaddy and Brad.

My guess is using the coupons are like paying cash, so I would think taxes would apply on the full amount.

-juice

dcab

It could well be that using the coupons are like paying cash and that the sales tax is figured first.

But the back of the coupon says that the dealer will deduct the value of the coupons from the purchase price. So you could make the argument that the sales tax is figured after the deduction, similar to how it works when using other types of coupons. Who knows, it may even vary by state.

If anyone purchased a Subaru using the coupons, I'd be curious to know how it worked. Maybe Patti could weigh in with an official ruling...

raybear

Wishful thinking, my friend. The coupons are same as cash.

subypower

You are definitely not required by the bank to purchase gap insurance on the loan. I sell Subaru's every day and have never seen a bank that requires you to purchase and aftermarket product to be eligible for financing. In fact, I believe what this dealer told you was illegal. You are not allowed to misrepresent a financial institution. I would demand to see a copy of the approval with the conditions and get your money back for the gap insurance.

Which dealership did you purchase your car from?

ateixeira

I hear you, but the "purchase price" includes sales tax, at least I would think so.

-juice

subypower

I know there are some dealers out there who use these strong arm tactics when selling cars. They tell the consumer that they will sell the car for invoice minus hold back and then force them to either take a high rate or purchase aftermarket products when they arrive at the dealership.

This is a violation and should be stopped.

paisan

Like I said laws vary from state to state, check with your state for the REAL info.

-mike

storen

Help. I just bought a 2002 OB for "invoice," although that included a $150 ad fee to the manufacturer, and then I got hit with $95 "Dealer Service and Handling Fees." Should that have been covered by the destination charge?

I'm now confused about whether the Subaru extended service agreement for 7r/100k miles is worth $2129 even if the premium is refundable if the warranty is not used. Any thoughts?

storen

Update to my last note. I called the dealer to ask about the Dealer Service and Handling Fee and the $95 charge was for them to do the paperwork to register the car. I asked if I could save the $95 and register it myself and they said yes, so I will get a refund of the taxes, license fees, and handling fee and go register the car myself and pocket the $95.

Still undecided about the extended warranty. Dealer didn't know if the warranty premium is refundable if the car is totaled. Any comments appreciated.

paisan

My cousin bought hers for around $1200 for 7/100k bumper to bumper. Almost all are able to be pro-rated if you sell or total your car.

-mike

ateixeira

Yeah, I'd recommend it, but $1200 is more like it for that term.

I'll be shopping for one in a few months so please let us know what you find.

Or try this - get a quote from Edmunds' partner, One Source, and then ask them to match it.

-juice

bat1161

If you get a few quotes off the internet for other Service Agreements, the dealer should match it. That's what happened with me.

Mark

wmiller4

I used them to purchase my Bean. We added them into the down payment. The down payment/coupons were applied after taxes.

blane

Don't forget that when you purchase ANY brand of extended warranty you don't buy seven years/100K miles of coverage. You are just buying an extra four years/50K miles. You've already paid the manufacturer for those first 3/50 when you bought the car. It's a crap shoot of well over a thousand dollars. If you buy a vehicle that is expected to be less reliable than another brand (check Consumer Reports ratings) it might be a worthwhile investment. Subarus are pretty reliable.

My recommendation, if you are intent on buying ANY BRAND of extended warranty, is to ask for a copy of the detailed coverage. Study it carefully. Compare the various brands of warranty AT HOME. Determine what components and costs are, and are not, covered for the dollars that you intend to spend.

A few years ago my son purchased a used vehicle and an aftermarket warranty. We only found out after the motor crapped out that the warranty didn't cover the cost of tearing down the motor to determine what internal damage had occurred. The small print was the killer. The outfit, Penn Warranty, had so many loopholes built in that the damn thing was virtually useless.

paisan

Subaru has 3/50K bumper to bumper std. now? Didn't realize this. I thought it wad 3/36K and 5/50 on the Powertrain.

I always go with a factory extended warranty with zero deductible, that way it is the same as my original one and I don't have to worry. Automatic tranny's cost about $4K, A/C systems are well over $600, and rack and pinions aren't cheap so if just one of those components goes, you've more than made up for your coverage.

-mike

kens

One thing to keep in mind is that many manufacturers let you buy an extended warranty at any time you are on your original factory warranty. I believe Subaru is the same way.

In such a case, it's almost always a better idea to wait until the last possible moment to buy the extended warranty. Why? You're making a bet that the cost of the extended warranty will be less than the cost and inconvenience of an out-of-pocket repair later. After three years of ownership, you'll probably have better information to base that decision.

Also, since the extended warranty doesn't kick in until your factory warranty runs out, there is an opportunity cost by handing over the dealer the money early.

Ken

storen

Here's what I learned. Subaru gives you 3yr/36K for manufacturer defects. The former extended warranty plan was called Subaru Gold and it was cheaper (don't know if it was $1200) but is no longer available. The current plan is called Subaru Gold Plus and is more expensive. You can wait to purchase the extended plan later but with more miles on the car, the price goes up.

I bought the extended plan because 1) my last car (Saab 900) had a temperature guage fail which caused a blown head gasket with no warning, 2) my mother's car had the transmission break down with no warning, and 3) I'm basically a chicken. So if I don't use the warranty, I'll get the premium back and in the meantime I'm sleeping better at night. It works out to about $25/month. The dealer said he's selling these plans with 42% of all new Subarus purchased, which is pretty high.

Thank you all for your advice. This is a great site.

p0926

Storen- Extended warranties are excellent for peace of mind but I think your sales person is guilty of providing misleading information in order to pressure you into forking over a chunk of your hard earned cash.

a. While it doesn't surprise me that Subaru would change the name of their plan, I think it highly unlikely that they would have increased the cost by a significant amount. (In other words, he's trying to convince you that your getting more for your money but has provided no evidence to support that claim)

b. The cost of the plan doesn't change regardless of when you sign-up. You may have a stronger bargaining position at the time of purchase but even that's debatable. And yes, the cost of the plan is fully negotiable. In fact, many buyers pay only 50% of the initial asking price for their extended warranties.

c. I'm very leery of their promise to return the premium if you don't use the plan. I think if you read the fine print you'll find out that's not the case. Extended warranties are just like insurance policies and when was the last time your insurance company returned your money even though you hadn't filed a claim in years.

Bottom line: I've said it before and I'll say it again, dealers wouldn't be so eager to offer extended warranties unless they were making a ton of money off them. Personally, I prefer to keep my cash working for me and self-insure. Statistically, I'll come out ahead in the long run.

-Frank P.

cptplt

when I got my 98 I paid about 30% off, most people I know who have gotten it since have done the same or better. a New england dealer at subaruwarranty.com sell for 40% off on the higher value warranties.
I paid 1100 for the warranty 6/100 , zero deductible) and I have had about 700 of warranty work already and I know I will need ac work this summer, just checking the valve which may be stuck under the dash is supposedly 3 hrs labor! Subaru used to let you pay by installment on a credit card over a year when I got mine, of course if you roll it into the financing when you buy that may work at well too.

cynthiag

My dealer said that to get the Subaru extended warranty at the new car price, you have until 12K miles to decide. And apparently, at that point, the 7yr/100K one, will be good from the point you buy until 7 years later... unless the mileage ends it first. So it seems to make more sense to wait until the 12K point to buy if the price is the same. My dealer says they sell the plan at $100 over cost, but I'm not sure what cost is, anyone know?

Insofar as extended warranties go, I bought one cheap for my 1985 Camry, cost $300. It was to 75K miles. Well, it turned out to be a good thing, the car needed a head gasket job before the 75K point and the cost would have been far more than the warranty cost me. Once fixed, the car went on for 198,000 miles, mostly trouble-free. But even the most reliable brands/models can have their moments. So I myself will probably consider the extended warranty at the 12K point. We'll see...

ateixeira

At just under 7 years/74k miles our 626 had plenty of problems despite being highly rated in reliability. You never know. We spent $2300 in the last 18 months, and the extended warranty wouldn't have covered it all, but most of it, yes. Plus we'd still have some warranty left.

BTW, I have to include a plug for Fitzgerald Subaru in MD. Excellent experience, great price, no nonsene. It was truly a relief compared to past experiences.

E-mail me if you (anyone) are shopping and I will split the $50 reference with you. :-) Their prices do not change.

-juice

cptplt

the time and mileage is always from initial car delivery, that is a 100% absolute certainty. the dealer is talking through his backend if he says otherwise. a 7/100K warranty therefore only extends your powertrain warranty by 2 years and 40K from the standard 5/60.
I am not sure about the "new car price" if under 12K though. the SOA website probably covers that. I
have never come across what the cost price of the warranty is but there are dealers willing to sell at up to almost 50% off and they still make something. I wouldn't even consider anything less than a 1/3 off.

cptplt

What cars are eligible for Added Security?
Added Security was created exclusively for Subaru cars. Any Subaru model that is still
covered under Subaru of America's basic warranty is eligible for Added Security, unless
it is used commercially or is equipped with a snowplow.

Back to top

How long does the service contract coverage last?
You can select the length of coverage that best suits your needs. You have a choice
between eight different plan terms. You can even choose a plan that covers your
Subaru until it is seven years old or has accumulated 100,000 odometer miles,
whichever comes first. The plan term is calculated from the start of the factory warranty
and at zero miles.

cptplt

stole a peek at the "invoice" price for a 7 yr/100K zero deductible warranty while I was haggling at the dealership. List price is 2200+, "invoice" is 1700+. they wouldn't go anymore than 100 below that. the subaruwarranty.com site has better prices, they want 1300+.
another thing I found out at another dealer, apparently some dealers have coupons they can use to get a discount.

brycen

Hi, I'm looking for a recommendation of a good servicing dealer in central Florida (Lake County). Vehicle is a '97 outback limited with 36000 miles. Replacing throttle body has been recommended but isn't on Subaru's charts. Also, should transmission be serviced? I drive mostly short distances. Thanks for the help!

cptplt

throttle body replacement is snake oil maintenance, changing tranny fluid is IIRC recommended by manufacturer, since its a 97, if it hasn't ever been changed its probably worth doing even if not recommended given the age of the vehicle

ateixeira

If it's an automatic have the ATF flushed at your next service. On a manual, I'd drain and refill the gear oil myself, since it's easier.

-juice

alanb5

Any news on 2003 model introduction timing? Also, what dealer or buyer incentives are currently on offer from manufacturer?

raybear

On Legacy, not much on anything else.

ateixeira

On 2002s, you get $750 on the Legacy/Outback models, and 0-$500 on Foresters (probably depending on dealer volumes).

If you want to buy a 2002, now is the time, because pricing near invoice plus this dealer incentive makes them as cheap as they'll ever get. Plus you have some selection.

The 2003 Forester is already here, and in dealers. The 2003 Legacy, Baja, and Impreza should come in the fall. I doubt any of those will have rebates before the end of the year. Only the Legacy has been around for a while, and it's getting a freshening, so don't count on rebates.

-juice

epp1

...still not sold on them. Seem like fairly expensive insurance policies. Assuming most are financing this $1500-$2500 option at 6-10% (just picking numbers here) you ultimately pay about $2,500 (cost $2,000, 8% rate, 5yr term) for this program.

At the end of the day you may get your $ back if you don't have any problems - in the mean time you've been floating the insurer.

By the time the additional coverage effectively becomes available you've already prefunded about $2K of whatever costs are out there. Take that extra $40 per month and stash it in an investment account somewhere - even if just earning interest (not a bad thing nowadays).

Just rambling.

Sean

ateixeira

Some people are getting quotes for around $1000 or so, FWIW.

I spent $2500 on our 626 in years 6 and 7 of ownership. On my previous car it would have paid for a $700 A/C repair, so I may not have broken even. It's a toss up.

-juice

inner

#1 of 3 2002 Subaru Legacy L 5-sp wagon prices in western Canada by inner Jun 19, 2002 (10:27 am)
I live in Calgary and wish to purchase a 2002 Subaru Legacy L 5-speed wagon in either Alberta, B.C., Saskatchewan or Manitoba by the end of this month, June 2002. I know invoice, shipping and air tax thanks to CarCostCanada.com. I know there is no holdback and no factory to consumer incentive/rebate on this vehicle. What have you paid for this vehicle in the months of March, April, May or June in western Canada?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nygreg

most coverage is for 7 years / 100K miles. I bet most people today exceed the 100K before the years. Therefore, you are betting that something will go wrong between 60K and 100K (For powertrain components). Maybe 1.5 - 2 years at my rate. What is the probability something major will fail in that timeframe on a Subaru that is properly cared for? It's a probability question.

Greg

ateixeira

We have 3 cars, so those last 40k miles would go a long, long way.

You could look for a 5/100 if it matches your driving schedule.

-juice

rally1

it is finally time to buy, this is what i got from one dealer:

-----
"I do have a Platinum silver wrx wagon, with no options on it.
I can add the Turbo Gauge for you.
Suggested retail price is $24020.00 (not including turbo gauge)
Irvine Subaru Internet price is $ 22,689.00 plus tax, licence and a 45.00 doc. fee.

Dealer invoice is $22048.00 (not including turbo gauge) "

------

a good starting point?

bluesubie

That's a decent price but you can probably do better. Folks are getting 02's for $200-$300 over dealer invoice (although I'm not sure if that's true in CA though). See if they'll go any lower. Try searching i-club.com on the dealership and your local area forums. Irvine posts there as well.

-Dennis

rally1

is it worth waiting till the '03 come out?

that's only a couple months away right.

thanks for the i-club.com link, great stuff