Subaru Crew - Dealers & Pricing

bluesubie

There will be small changes to the '03's.
Revised grille, different alarm, lighted ring around the ignition and that's about it.

Be careful on the i-club. Lots of wonderful info, but also lots of noise as well. :-)

-Dennis

maxine51

Check out Renick Subaru, ask for Tor Johnson. 10 days ago I picked up my '03 Forester Xs for $400 over invoice inc. options. Great guy to do business with, NO pressure. Didn't have what I wanted on the lot but had the car two days later.
Same price he quoted me. Best no hassle car buying experience ever!

Diane

raybear

Who'd you get the quote from, Desi? Irvine's a big dealer. What's the quote relative to invoice? A few hundred over is a good deal. $500 over has been the norm for a while, but availability seems to have dried up.

dcab

Info on Subaru's new card is up on Subaru's website. It's now through Chase, but it looks like the same program as the old one with MBNA:
3% credit on purchases to a max of $500 per year, good on new car purchase or parts/service. I didn't see if the max towards a new purchase was still $2000 over four years.

You also get a $25 credit in "SubaruBucks" if you apply by the end of September.

The MBNA program was a great deal for us; we ended up with $3100 towards our '03 Forester purchase last month.

lark6

So I need to cancel my MBNA card and move over to Chase? Great, just what I need - another credit card company calling me all hours of the day and night, trying to make me more "offers" I don't need. MBNA calls me enough as it is, even though I have the card. I've only gotten $200 out of the deal so far - better than nothing but maybe not enough to justify continuing the program.

Will look at it nonetheless.

Ed

ateixeira

I use a Toys R Us card and buy diapers with the 1% rebates.

-juice

jiangxi

It is a 2002 Subaru Outback basic model. It has 830 miles on it. It's been used by one of the salesmen. The mileage discount for the mileage is $300. The price is invoice price minus dealer incentive minus the $300. I want this car because it is the only one that matches my color and feature specifications in this area. But I really do not like the idea of having a car that is literally used. Should I get his car? Thanks.

ateixeira

If the sales guy took care of it, it should be fine. It's not even broken in yet.

$300 isn't a big discount, but having the exact equipment and color you want is a more significant incentive.

-juice

originalbitman

For $300 you could have a car that you know how it has been driven - by you. I personally think those first 1,000 miles are important and would rather know it has been broken in correctly and not by someone who wasn't going to own the car long term.

bit

raybear

Is good. I doubt they'd part with an unused car for the same amount.

strider98

should try to get $1 for every mile driven, or at least counter-offer with that.

jiangxi

Good opinions. One stupid question, what does 'broken in' mean? When is it counted as (a good) 'broken in'?

I doubt the salesman took good care of the car. When we saw the car (it wasn't really for sale at the moment), it was dusty and ugly. The cupholder area has drink stains. The seller of course promised a complete cleanup and a brand new condition at delivery.

Well, I might as well walk away from the deal.

originalbitman

Pretty much the first 1000 miles. It is a method of driving the car to allow surfaces to become comfortable with contacting each other. Like piston rings, bearings, brake pads and rotors and gears among others. Some people say it is important others do not. From the Subaru Owner's Manual:

"New vehicle break-in driving – the first 1,000 miles (1,600 km)
The performance and long life of your vehicle are dependent on how you handle and care for your vehicle while it is new. Follow these instructions during the first 1,000 miles (1,600 km):
Do not race the engine.
Never exceed 4,000 rpm engine speed except for brief acceleration in an emergency.
Do not exceed the speed limits below for each gear position except for brief acceleration in an emergency.
mph (km/h)
1st 22mph
2nd 37mph
3rd 50mph
4th 65mph
Try to drive at moderate speeds while accelerating and braking smoothly. Do not drive at one constant engine or vehicle speed for a long time, either fast or slow. Avoid starting suddenly and rapid acceleration, except in an emergency. Avoid hard braking, except in an emergency."

bit

originalbitman

By the way... there are no stupid questions here. We all learn al lot by asking.

bit

rsholland

has one '03 WRX in stock!

Also note new "Consumer Alert" disclaimer on their vehicle listings.

Bob

http://www.fitzgeraldautomall.com/

ateixeira

They priced it about $700 more than the 2002s, not bad. I'm sure that price will drop eventually, too.

-juice

dude

Just saw a couple 03' Legacy special edition wagons yesterday. They look just like 02' GTs but don't have the limited slip rear diff, no power seat and no autostick. To me this is a really good value. MSRP was something like 22500 but I'm sure you can get it a lot cheaper.

sneezy2

I just test drove a Subaru Forester X, my first time in a Subaru, and just absolutely liked it!
It's like discovering a whole new world that I didn't know existed.
This is a cool site!

Anyway, a few questions:
Has anyone purchased a Forester in the Houston area this year?
How much over invoice is a good deal for the 2003 X (base, no options) at this time of year? Ideally I'd like to buy one within the next month or two.

p0926

Sue- Edmund's True Market Value "TMV" usually gives you a pretty good idea of what you can expect to pay. Since the 2003s are still fairly new you'll be paying closer to MSRP but I think the improvements Subaru made make it worth while. Of course the longer you postpone your purchase the closer to invoice you can expect to get. Good luck and keep us posted.

-Frank P.

ateixeira

I'd aim for about 1% over invoice, but not more than 3% over. That's a fair margin for a newish model.

-juice

paisan

I dunno seems to me that that is a bit low.

I go for $1000 over the actual dealer cost which comes out to about 10-20% profit for the dealer.

-mike

p0926

$1000 over invoice is approx 5% on an 03 Forester X which seems a fair deal. In 6 months you should be able to get 3% over.

mike- 10-20% profit" = $2-4K????

-Frank P.

ateixeira

He borrowed a calculator from Enron.

-juice

paisan

I was just taking WAG on that. Generally at least $1K of profit is what I give depending on the vehicle.

-mike

blane

paison:

You are truly a generous person to offer a dealer one thousand dollars profit. Is that on top of their 2% of MSRP dealer holdback?

Try taking "invoice" price, less holdback, plus local advertising (approx $150), plus destination $525. Then be generous and offer $200 to $300 additional profit. You can always negotiate upwards slightly. But $1,000? Never, unless the model is only out less than a month.

masan

In July, I offered 2% over invoice, and then negotiated up to 2.5% over (under Edmund's TMV). If I had it to do over I'd start at 1% or 1.5% and go from there.

sneezy2

to you all for your advice and suggestions! Having Edmunds' TMV and your suggestions, I can now recognize a reasonable/fair price range and good starting point for negotiations. This will be my first new car purchase so I am taking my time to research and learn. Will keep you posted.

paisan

Here is the formula I use:

Invoice Price
- (MSRP x Dealer Holdback)
- (Incentives Rebates etc)
+ (Shipping/Destination)
----------------------------
= Dealer's Cost
+ $700 to $1200 depending on initial value
----------------------------
= Price I will pay

As for local advertising I don't count that in at all. If you noticed I didn't say I paid $1000 over Invoice, I said I pay $1000 over DEALER's COST. In other words the DEALER'S COST is the out of pocket expenses of the dealer.

I'll go one step further and do it out for you on a 2002 Legacy GT Limited Sedan w/6 disc CD Amp and Automatic.

24,105 Invoice + Destination
740 Holdback
1,200 Factory to Dealer Incentive
===================================
22,165 True Dealer Cost
+1,000 My Dealer Profit Margin (which is only 4.5% profit in this case)
===================================
23,165 Price I will walk out the door with this car plus tax and tags.

Hope this gives you a better perspective.

-mike

paisan

If you think 4.5% profit is a lot, Guess how much profit you give to McDonalds when you buy a soda... about 93.7% profit!

blane

paison:

Thanks for your clarification. Your deal is similar to the one I worked out.

duckguni

I'm gonna buy 03 Forester X. But, this is my first time to buy a car. So, I don't know how to buy it. Could you give me some strategy?

Edmunds.com says that TMV is $20,524(Automatic), and True cost to own is $22,501(including destination charge $525 plus tax & fees $1,452).

Can I buy it under this price?
How much did you pay for buying it?
I'm gonna buy it around late Sept. I heard that the end of each month is good for buying a car. is it right?
Please give me some advice!!!

ateixeira

Where do you live? Region has a big effect on pricing. For instance, you'll pay more in Alaska and in New England.

If you are in DC, try fitzmall.com. There are dealers in Rockville and Frederick, MD. Their no-haggle policy is easier for a newbie like yourself.

E-mail me if you are interested (ateixeira@ifc.org), I'll put you in touch with my sales man, who was very professional and courteous. And no surprise fees, best of all.

-juice

dsattler

Test drove a WRX today in preparation for buying one fairly soon, and I have a couple of questions for folks:

Does anyone have the short shifter? I drove the regular shifter and wasn't crazy about it, but that could be because I'm used to my Miata, one of the sweetest five speeds in the world.

How do folks feel about the arm rest extension? The salesman said many folks don't like it because it interferes with their shifting.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

FYI, I drove the sedan but plan to buy the wagon.

ateixeira

I have a Miata, so I know what you mean. The Miata's shift lever is enclosed in gear oil, so no car can quite match it's feel.

The STi short shifter does feel better than the stock one, but Kartboy shifters (about $100 in the aftermarket) are even shorter. I've sampled one with urethane bushings and it was nice, though it felt more like an S2000's mechanically direct shifting vs. a Miata's stir-the-whipped-cream smoothness.

I agree with the sales man - try the arm rest extension. It's at the same height as the door arm rest, so for trips it's great, but see if you elbow hits it when you shift (it'll depend on your height).

Here's one buying service, BTW:

http://www.invoicedealers.com/

-juice

dsattler

Thanks.

rsholland

Welcome back! Long time, no see (either online or in person!)

Yes, get the WRX wagon and arm rest extension. I would also suggest the rear bumper rubber mat, trunk mat, and roof rack crossbars (all standard on the Outback Sport).

If you get the short shifter, try to get it with the standard gear shift knob, not the titanium knob!

Bob

duckguni

Has anyone purchased a Forester in Utah this year? How much over invoice is a good deal for the 2003 X (base, no options with automatic) at this time of year?

I went to Honda dealershop last night to see CR-V. EX trim has wonderful equipments and facinated me. But I know that cR-V EX should be compared with Forester XS. In addition, CR-V is a 02 model but Forester is a 03 model. It's really hard to decide which one to choose. And if I choose Forester, which trim should I choose? Is it worth paying much money for XS model?

Any info would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Duckguni

ateixeira

Around here the best I found was about $500 off MSRP for a CR-V. That puts the price about even with a Forester XS, because Subaru dealers tend to offer bigger discounts.

Anyone in Utah offer some help?

-juice

nygreg

My concern with the CRV and RAV4 is the rear door. With the spare sticking out, it causes a lot of damage when you get hit in the rear. Other than that, I really like the RAV4. However, if I was buying now, no questions, it would be a Forester.
0.02

Greg

hhugel

I live in CA and just got a OB 2003 with a manual tranny. I love this car!! And I got it for 5% over invoice.

ateixeira

You ain't kidding, check it out:

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/low_speed_smsuv.htm

CR-V and RAV4 suffer 5-6 times as much damamge in the bumper basher. Ouch.

-juice

paisan

Don't understand why people are so concerned about the rear tire. If a guy rear ends you it's his insurance that pays, not yours.

If you backup into a pole then you deserve to get higher insurance rates.

-mike

ateixeira

You've said it yourself - once a car gets hit it'll never be the same again. So even fixed for free, I wonder if those hinges on the rear hatch will squeek forever. Plus the hassle of the time it will spend in the body shop.

A bumper fascia is no big deal, but the whole rear door is IMO.

As for backing up into the pole, you and I don't have teenagers in the household learning how to drive!

-juice

bluesubie

rsholland

<< Don't understand why people are so concerned about the rear tire. If a guy rear ends you it's his insurance that pays, not yours. >>

If for no other reason, because it's a hassle one doesn't have to have. Even if it is someone else's fault, you have to deal with insurance forms/people, car rentals, worries that your repaired car will never be the same, etc. If you had decent rear-end protection, you would avoid that mess altogether.

Bob

paisan

But living in NYC and driving ALOT and all the people I know none have ever been rear ended in their SUV with a rear tire. The same could be said of almost any other rear end collision, either way it's going to the body shop and you'll have to deal with paperwork etc. The few people I know of (none in urban areas) that got tapped in their Trooper or Rodeo the opposing vehicle actually hit the bumper and not the spare. The only one where the tire is extremely protruding is the Rav.

As for teens. Hmmm, no teen I know should have a 20-30K SUV to learn on. I know I didn't have an expensive SUV to learn to drive with. Again parents fault for giving an inexperienced driver an expensive SUV to drive. Welcome to spoiled brat USA! Arrrrgggghhhhh

-mike

jfl

My wife's '96 Jeep GC is the only automatic in the house so my daughter learned on that. It's worth nowhere near 20-30K though.

We figure if she gets into an accident, she should be safe with all that metal around her!

Jim

cptplt

check out the IIHS websites stats, some SUVS are downright dangerous compared to regular cars and minivans.

paisan

It's all the drivers, Drivers kill people,

-mike

lark6