Subaru Crew - Dealers & Pricing

lark6

I can second Dennis on post 1713. The new guy needs time to come around. I took my Forester there for 45K service this past summer and they forgot to put my lug lock back in the car after the work was done. They promptly FedExed the lock back to me and Diane was apologetic. Flemington's about a 50 minute drive for me.

They were very liberal in allowing me to take out a new Legacy GT wagon and WRX sedan for lengthy solo test drives. It may have helped my cause that I'm not a young guy and reassured them I wouldn't beat on the cars. On the other hand it didn't help me because prior to that day I'd been mostly immune to the WRX's charms...;-)

Ed

bsvoller

OK, I give up. I've been going to Flatirons Subaru in Boulder for 2 years. They're professional, prompt, courteous, attentive, know the car, and stand behind their work.

That's all good.

Unfortunately, they're also unable to touch the car without screwing something up, and I've had it with them. Mistakes happen, but this is ridiculous.

So far they've overfilled my engine oil, left a vacuum hose off (to my gauge pack, right in front of their noses) and now, most recently, omitted 2 of the 4 bolts that hold the intake snorkus on. I suspect that they underfilled my transmission, but I didn't check it immediately. (It reads low, and has no leaks, so I'm inclined to think that they underfilled it last summer.)

Sigh. None of this is too tragic, but neither is any of it confidence inspiring. What happens if I need serious work done ?

How much extra does it cost to get all the bolts put back ? (I KNOW they were there when I brought it in...)

So when they changed the spark plugs at 30k, did they put the right plugs in ? Did they remember to use anti-seize compound on the threads ? How come I have to check their work ? Since when is that MY job ?

I emailed SOA and entered a formal complaint. They responded within hours. Nice.

So does anyone have a recommended dealership in the Denver metro area ? I tried John Elway West - they didn't know the car, bunch of Jeep fanatics, but that was 2 years ago now.

Subaru, are you listening ? The dealer network on the Front Range is a JOKE ! Hello ? Anybody home ?

Grrrrr.

</RANT>

jfl

The 30k service really isn't that difficult. You don't have to do it all in one day either. I started on juice's list and I'm about half way through. When I'm finished, it will more than pay for volume 1 of the service manual.

Don't you always wonder when something breaks right after a dealer touches you car?

Jim

bsvoller

I think you misunderstand me. I had this dealer do the 30k service for me (used my Subie coupons, so no out of pocket).

Now I'm wondering whether I need to double-check everything they did.

Very aggravating.

-brianV

dude

Brian, I've been using John Elway South for my service for a while now. I've done my 60K service, bunch of oil changes and fixed my sunroof over there. No problems.(Knocking on wood) I've used Burt a few times, but there were further from my work, so I stopped going there. Besides, there are more expensive. For 60K service they quoted me $560 where Elway south was $480. There's also a new dealership on 104th in Thornton - Mike Shaw Subaru. But I'm not sure how good they are. Let me know if you need more help.

bsvoller

Thanks for the tip. Since I'm north, I'll try Mike Shaw I guess.

joybell

I had a call from our local Subaru dealer this morning. I have been hemming and hawing about which Subaru model to buy in the spring (Impreza wagon or the more expensive Forester). Now I might have to make a decision this week. The dealership will be closing their doors Feb. 17....not enough sales!!! And I thought Subaru was doing so well? They are offering MSRP without dealer prep, financing 48 months at 4.8% and 60 months at 5.8%. They have never given any deals before. My husband said this is not a good enough deal for us to buy it now instead of waiting for the spring. There is another dealer, but a lot further away (in Montreal).

rsholland

I would think Subarus would be a hot commodity in Canada, being AWD. It certainly makes the service issue far more complicated. I'm sure you would like to have a dealer nearby for that.

How far is Montreal from where you live? Is there any chance another dealer nearby might pick up that franchise?

Bob

joybell

I had a call from our local Subaru dealer this morning. I have been hemming and hawing about which Subaru model to buy in the spring (Impreza wagon or the more expensive Forester). Now I might have to make a decision this week. The dealership will be closing their doors Feb. 17....not enough sales!!! And I thought Subaru was doing so well? They are offering MSRP without dealer prep, financing 48 months at 4.8% and 60 months at 5.8%. They have never given any deals before. My husband said this is not a good enough deal for us to buy it now instead of waiting for the spring. There is another dealer, but a lot further away (in Montreal).

joybell

How did that get posted twice? AWD is not really that hot here, except with the young SUV crowd. We know how to drive on snow and ice. I feel a skid is more predictable with a 2wd vehicle. The only time I ever unintentionally went off the road was with my "on demand 4WD" Chaser, on ice, with the 4WD engaged. Maybe part of the reason of slow sales is that Subaru no longer has any "economy" vehicles like they used to (like the very basic 2wd wagon). I do not live in a "rich" area. If they did both my brother and sister would have purchased a Subie instead of a Protege sedan (sister) and a Protege5 (brother). That being said, I just got another call that with $10,000 cash down I will get another $1000. So it is getting better. In the meantime my husband is grubbling about Canada being dragged into a war with Iraq and what will that do to the economy and should we buy now or wait until spring as originally planned.

paisan

-mike

joybell

I am not worried about not having a dealer close by. I shouldn't need to use the warranty, if it is a Subie, right?

paisan

Not sure how close to MSRP cars sell for in canada, but here most sell close to Invoice.

-mike

joybell

....so for them, this is a BIG deal.

p0926

A Subaru dealer near the border probably doesn't need to come off MSRP since with the current exchange rate, a Canadian Forester at MSRP is still probably cheaper than a US Forester at invoice.

-Frank P.

joybell

joybell

rsholland

can be a hassle. The Canadian and USA cars are different in some respects. For example, in Canada the speedometer is in kilometers, where in the USA it's in miles. There are other subtle differences too. I believe you have to bring cars that are bought in other countries up to what the local regulations are. Plus there are warranty issues too. A Canadian Subaru dealer may not honor the warranty of a car bought in the USA.

It's not that simple, so I've been told. And it could be costly too, making it just not worth the bother.

Bob

p0926

Bob- Actually I've heard that due to the current favorable exchange rate, Americans are going to Canada in increasing numbers to buy their cars. In fact the numbers are getting to be so significant that US car dealers are pushing for legislation to stop it (or at least make the process more painful). At the moment, their most effective weapon is refusing to honor warranty issues, thereby forcing US owners to drive north to get their cars serviced.

-Frank P.

paisan

The warranty issue alone would stop me from buying across the border unless I was living real close to canada!

-mike

joybell

..at least for now. The dealer that is going out of business told me that their Mazda dealership (same name) will service my new Subaru. I called Subaru Canada and was told that there is no such arrangement and that I would have to go to Montreal for service. The Subaru Canada rep told me that the dealership was experiencing very poor Subaru sales and since they also have a Mazda dealership they decided to concentrate on that. The Mazda Protege5s are selling like hotcakes here. Anyway, I wasn't very taken with the plastic cladding on the Forester (couldn't get past the vision of rusting metal under that plastic), and they only had one blue Impreza wagon left with automatic transmission (I insist on a manual for a sporty car). And besides, the salesman lied about the service arrangement. I don't know what to do now except wait and see if a new dealership opens. Thank goodness my Loyale is still running great.

rsholland

How far are you from Montreal? Is that doable for you?

Bob

joybell

and too inconvenient (have to cross the city to get there).

rsholland

one dealer in and around Montreal? I find that hard to believe. I live 20 miles west of Baltimore, and have access to 7 Subaru dealers within a 45 minute drive, 6 of which I can access within 30 minutes, easily.

Bob

joybell

one in the center, one to the north and one to the southeast and one south. I'm in the west, which was the area covered by the one closing its doors. Montreal is on an island, bridges are a pain to cross at rush hour....I know because I used to communte to Montreal to work. I have already wasted a big chunk of my life sitting in traffic. I don't like the city...hate going there, not even for a Subie!

joybell

the one in the north is way north (Ste-Agathe) where my mom gets her Subies.

lark6

No offense, but I don't think you ever wanted to replace your Loyale. If I recall correctly, you were unhappy that you couldn't find a new Subaru with manual windows. There is no metal under the plastic front and rear bumpers that is not structural. I empathize with the challenge of driving to another dealer for service. As for the blue Impreza wagon with manual transmission, you could either order one or have a dealer locate one for you and have it shipped there.

It seems to me that you have managed to talk yourself out of the purchase with a number of rationalizations.

Since you are happy with your Loyale, I'd recommend you find a good independent Subaru mechanic and a good donor parts car. You can then let the mechanic travel the distance to the Subaru dealer for any new parts that can't be taken off your donor car.

Best of luck,

Ed

joybell

you are right, the Loyale is still the best. It is a truely sensible car. But I truely would love a new Subaru. Who wouldn't. True, Subaru cannot give me "exactly" what I want, and probably will never do so again since they seem to be geared for the crowd that loves "fully loaded" cars, but it is still the best maker out there IMHO. I love the Impreza with the bug lights and the sporty look and I really was disappointed that the affordable Foresters were clad with plastic. No matter how many people try to convince me otherwise, the plastic is going to promote rust and it doesn look nice either. I can still see the plastic falling off the Chaser and the metal all gone under it. Don't forget that I will want to keep it for 10+ years so I have to like what I choose. My intention was to order an Impreza in the spring 2004 model but alas no bug lights. As for the dealer location as it is right now, it is really out of the question. No, if you would see my Loyale you would wonder why I haven't been pulled off the road and inspected.

joybell

Both front fenders dented, one rusted and metal falling off, driver's door rusted right through at the bottom, big round rust spot in the middle of the door, wheel wheels bubbling with rust, hood edge rusted, Subaru insigna in the back rusted through, hatch won't open anymore, needs $2500 body work and that would only be good for two years, providing the structural steel is still in good condition. Keep it? Oh yes, catalytic convertor needs to be replaced as does the radiator, maybe a lot of other stuff too!

rsholland

You're one of a kind... sort of. Not many people keep cars as long as you do anymore, at least not north of the Rio Grande. Subaru (and all carmakers) have to build vehicles for the masses, and their buying habits.

Despite what you may think, having power windows does not mean the car is "loaded," as you have described. Everything is relative. 30 or 40 years ago seeing a small compact car with power steering or power brakes was considered "extravagant." Today you can't find a vehicle anywhere without those features.

It seems like your mindset is stuck in the 1980s, and it's now 2003...

Bob

lark6

I hope you didn't take offense at my comments, Joybell. Bob points out some convincing reasons why automakers have changed the way they build cars. Take Subaru for example (since we're in a Subaru forum anyway): their rustproofing methods have improved substantially, even in the last decade. The Impreza WRX and the new Forester have aluminum hoods. As for electric vs. manual windows, I felt the same way as you about 7-8 years ago when the power windows on my VW Jetta failed several times. The counterargument is that electric window mechanisms actually weigh less than the manual lifts. Sure there is more electrical equipment on today's cars so proportionately there's a greater chance something electrical could go wrong. Still older cars, even with limited electricals, had failures too - just ask anyone who ever owned a British car!

I have a good basis for comparison sitting in my garage: a 1963 Studebaker. All I have to do is look at it next to my 2000 Forester and I can compare the pros and cons of all the changes in autos over the last 40 years.

As for durability, I keep my cars 8 years on average so I'm looking for long-term reliability too. I've had the Forester for 3 years and overall, so far so good. Subaru's above-average reputation for reliability was a major factor in my purchase.

Again if you can find a solid, low-mileage Loyale in good structural shape, go for it. You may have to come far south into the US to do it though. If you can swing it, I still think it may be a good idea to have one of those Montreal-area dealers locate a blue 2003 Impreza TS wagon with manual transmission for you (out of existing dealer stock) and get them to ship it there. With Subaru improving in the reliability area those trips to the dealer for maintenance, even though longer than they would've been had you local dealer kept the brand, will be few and far between.

Ed

joybell

like power door locks, power steering, power brakes, even power windows if the kids can be controlled (my Loyale has them and needed a repair on them), but cruise control is good for highway driving only, and air conditioning is not worth the price for 2 months a year, especially for folks like me that work on a farm and are used to the summer heat and humidity and then "get spoiled" by air conditioning...making the heat and humidity harder to take. However, as long as the venting system is good, it can be turned off. But why pay for it if I don't want it? Air conditioning is no good for the body and no good for the environment. Overall, Subaru's model line is much more limited that what it used to be. The attitude seems to be "take it or leave it", and well, I am leaving it for now. My brother claims my "mind set" problem is wanting to stick with Subaru. He switched from Honda to Mazda Protege5 and has had absolutely no problems with his car. My sister switched from Toyota also to a Mazda Protege sedan last summer and again finds that "these Japanese cars are what Japanese cars used to be.....absolutely dependable and problem free from the day they are driven off the lot". So, yes, I have a mindset problem.....set on Subaru.

joybell

to any comments (not even being called a Mexican) because I do appreciate all the advice that I have received on this board and elsewhere on the Edmunds website. Buying a car is an important once-every-ten-years decision for me. I am a carefull shopper had have always had difficulty parting with my money.

rsholland

I too was not trying to offend, and I'm glad you're willing to accept our comments in the spirit in which they were offered.

Part of the reasons Subaru "contents" their vehicles as such, is that they are a small carmaker, as compared to others out there. So they need to find an "edge" in order to compete. One of those edges is that they do content their vehicles a bit higher than the competition. Another is to offer every vehicle they sell here, AWD. Most Subie customers see those as a value-added features, and that Subaru is offering the best vehicle they can within certain price points. I certainly fall into that catagory.

Air conditioning is another example. While it may seem to be a frivolous feature for those in northern climates, most of those who live south of the Canadian border see it as an essential feature. It's actually cheaper for Subaru, as well as the customer, to equip "all" their cars with this feature. To develop and manufacture both non-a/c models and a/c models would actually cost more than to develop one model, and sell it to everyone.

Now you might say: "What's that got to do with Canadian models, or European models, or Australian models?" Again, the more cars Subaru can manufacture the same way, the cheaper it will be for everyone in the long run, both for Subaru and its customers.

Bob

paisan

You crack me up! Welcome to 2003. ALL cars come with AC/PW/PL/etc. Why not just buy a work Pickup Truck? That is about as close as you are gonna get to a "stripped down" model. Or heck check out your local John Deere dealer I bet they can cut you a great deal on a tractor w/o A/C/PS/PW/PL/etc.

Also I don't see the big deal about buying a car at a dealer not near you. How often do you have to visit the dealer with your vehicles? I haven't visited my car dealer but 1x in 3 years of owning my 2000 model year Trooper.

-mike

ateixeira

First car I got, all I wanted was 4 wheels.

Second car, I wanted power steering.

First new car, my requirements were A/C and cassette player, mainly because I was going to commute to work in it in a shirt and tie, and I was into my music.

Pretty soon, I wanted power windows and locks. Oh, and keyless is great, once you have it's hard to go back! Plus cruise for those spring break runs to Florida. 14 hours is a bear on that right leg.

Now I want ABS, even AWD. And a moonroof. Lit vanity mirrors (for my wife) and at least 4 good cup holders.

It's tough, automakers tempt us and offer all these on even cheap, $20k vehicles. It's driven up the average vehicle price to $24 grand or so.

Anyhow, a model like the Forester L is today's stripper, even though it's comprehensively equipped compared to cars a decade ago, it does not have HIDs, Navigation systems, rear-view camera, radar-based cruise control, DVD entertainment, etc.

-juice

joybell

but I don't. I would rather see that money go into making a car last longer. Everyone has their own preferances. The majority win.

ateixeira

They don't want cars to last too long, otherwise people won't keep buying new cars. It's amazing that they've gotten the US public to purchase 17 million new cars per year. Think about it!

-juice

joybell

Well, some people purchase new cars because there are new different looking models to buy. They like the change and can afford to change for that reason only. Then there are the rest of us that look at a car as a necessary expense, and the cheaper we can do it the better. These people, like me, want the cars to last because there are lots of other things that we would rather spend money on. What you say is true. Nothing is made to last anymore, and that not only applies to cars, because that would greatly limit manufacturing replacement products. We are living in a "throw away" society. It is good for the ecomomy. We live too well.

ateixeira

I keep my cars longer than usual, 7 years last time around, and that was an econobox. My Subie will hit 5 years in August and is still going strong. In fact I'll have no excuse to trade up when the Forester turbos arrive.

-juice

lark6

Joybell, I fully understand your point. I personally fall in the middle, but more toward your "lots of other things that we would rather spend money on" end of the scale. That's a little hypocritical of me to say because I have already admitted to owning an antique car which I only rarely use as daily transportation. Nonetheless I do hang onto my daily drivers an average of 8 years. Again, reputation for long-term reliability, running and maintenance costs led me to choose a Subaru over an Audi.

I do believe that automobiles last longer now than they did in the past. In addition, planned obsolescence, while it still exists, does not run as rampant as it did in, say, the 1950s and 1960s, when the Big Five (then Four, now Three) US automakers routinely completely redesigned sheetmetal and trim every model year, while retaining the same mechanicals.

Ed

nygreg

I consider any car less than 5 years old, new! I like to think my wife and I are value customers. We typically buy the middle model - good features for a reasonable price (i.e. Camry LE, Sienna LE, OB base with AWP, security, CD).

Greg

fibber2

Seriously, Outback_97 has the perfect car sale. A vintage Subaru in what appears to be excellent condition. Could you put up with an automatic if the price was right??

http://www.messmers.com/gl

Steve

rsholland

Canadian-spec, if that makes a difference.

Bob

fibber2

so why should it matter? It should be registerable in Canada. Maybe an import duty?

Steve

rsholland

Canadian specs, would be my guess. I could be wrong, but don't cars from other countries need to be brought up to spec (whatever that entails), in order to meet local regulations?

It may include lighting, changing the speedo to kilometers, etc.

Bob

joybell

From what I have heard, importing a car from the USA is a headache, but what exactly is involved, I don't know. That's a nice old Subaru 1989, but not a wagon anyway. I missed a nice deal on a 1985 Subaru sedan a month ago. Someone snapped it up before I could get to see it. Only 65,800 kms and really cheap, about US$1000, but we were going to put it in one of our sheds and not use it. I will continue to run my rusty Loyale (true, I appreciate it more than ever now since I have started looking around). When I get pulled off the road I will hand in the plates and use one of our farm trucks. They are awkward to park in town though (long box four door crew cab and long box extended cab Chevys).

rba

The key to getting the best price is talk to the internet guy at lots of dealerships - ask for their lowest out the door price. Keep notes, call everyone a second time to get a still lower price. Even though I asked for their lowest price the first time around, some will still come down $300-400 the second time. Don't be shy or intimidated or made to feel like a fool. One dealer refused to go any lower and actually questioned me as to whether I was really talking about an Outback Sport and not some other model. The next dealer promptly offered the same exact car at $265 less. End result: $650 under invoice and 0% financing.

spoolup

Hello, I'm new here and I have a deposit on a 2003 WRX near Omaha, NE. I am also a VIP buyer thru my employer (a preferred vendor), giving me INVOICE PRICING on all items, car+options. Not bad... but wait! Is at-cost pricing truly a deal? Here's the specs:
-WRX, sedan, 5spd
-Performance group 1
-Premium Sound Package 1
-CF Seat trim
-Security system upgrade
-Rear spoiler

MSRP: $26,844 My price: $24,391
Savings: $2,453

rwitte

I'm asking myself the same question. I can get VIP through IMBA, but if I end up buying a 2003, I may skip the VIP and try to make a little better deal. Some 2003's (at least Outback and WRX) have $500 dealer cash. I'm sure if you go in there with VIP, they'll be quite happy to take that and pocket the $500, not that there is anything wrong with that. If you want to push a little, you could probably dip into that $500 and make a better deal than VIP. That may be especially true with the WRX, as the new 2004's are right on the horizon. VIP does make the process easier, so maybe the couple or few hundred bucks saved may not be worth it to you. Just some ideas.

Randy