By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
-mike
Lovell springs, 2" lift, $360
Front skid plate, aluminum, $300
Big wheel and tire package (*), $800
Front LSD, $900
* you'd probably have to move the spring base or get new struts for the rear to fit these
-juice
I just think there is a market out there—thinking globally, not just North America—for a HD Subaru model. As noted the Forester is the best seller for Subaru in Australia. That tells me there could very well be a market for a much beefier version, if it were available.
To me this just seems like a natural progression (or evolution) of Subaru's AWD, their rallying experience, and their rugged image, in terms of marketing. I really don't see it as an unrealistic stretch. It's still very much a "niche" product, and builds upon everything Subaru has done for the last 20 years or so.
Bob
Bob
Outside North America most hard-core 4WDs are diesels. Until Subaru has such an engine, I see this as mostly a pipe dream.
Now if Subaru, with the help of GM and Isuzu, got together—especially with Isuzu's diesel expertise, and could produce an excellent boxer diesel, that would change the picture considerably. Until then, as much as I would like to see it happen, it's probably unlikely to occur.
Bob
Bob
I like juice's idea of an aftermarket kit to allow enthusiasts the ability to transform their Forester into a boulder hopping beast. Maybe Subaru could meet halfway by offering the dual-range tranny over here.
Ken
Frankly, I don't know how it would fit here, if at all.
Bob
Ken
-mike
I am not sure that FHI would have a lot of joy in breaking into the large, rugged off-road market here in Australia. As has been mentioned by others, a lot of the 4WD activity here in Australia is for long distance dirt track touring. This is feasible, even on the fringes of the cities with very difficult 4WD trails within 20 miles of Sydney and Melbourne. More fun for many people though are the traverses of the major deserts.
It may spoil the image of the rugged outback but Australia is one of the most highly urbanised countries in the world. However, many city residents own 4WDs for recreational purposes, although many never make it off the school run.
I come from the country and my father used to run a fleet of 4WDs as he ran a mine surveying/engineering operation. Historically, they used Jeeps through the early 1950's moving to Landrovers and then experiencing pure joy when the Toyota FJ40 was introduced. This rapidly became the vehicle of choice for farmers and miners across Australia. It even ran to the luxury of a a heater, something Landrowver had difficulty with. In addition, the electrics worked reliably and the need for repairs dropped to a fraction of the Landrover cost.
In Australia the FJ series is still sold with a wide range of options. There is a huge range of body styles available and the vehicle sells parallel to the more urbanized landcruiser Station Wagon. In rural areas, it is easier to get parts for a Landcruiser than any other vehicle. The very long model life also permits interchangability of worn bits.
My sister and brother in law are into serious off-roading of the sort which requires great care. They tour for a week or so at a time through the mountains between Melbourne and Sydney which are essentially untouched but for occassional tracks. They have just replaced their 3yo Nissan pathfinder with a Landcruiser, replacing the Diffs with locking units, fitting bull bars (I do not approve) heavy winch and such like. They use it as intended and love it.
For manufacturers other than Toyota, the market is large but not sufficient to warrant the spend on seriously ruggedised platforms.
An aside; Toyota make an even larger vehicle than the Landcruiser (sort of Landcruiser on steroids to reach Hummer size) but it does not make it out of Japan. Steve may know what it is called and what the specs are.
Cheers
Graham
Bob
Look at Japan - they rebadged an Opel as the Traviq. If Subaru got a truck, it would be a Rodeo clone. GM is not going to give priority to other markets, and I doubt they'll even consider anything but a minicar for non-US sale.
That's the current trend - global platforms, local customization. Subaru just isn't going to get its own clean-sheet platform.
I say spend that R&D money to certify the Legacy and Forester turbos for US sale. Get Lutz in there, to bring the best products from oversease to this huge market, where they can make a serious dent. Do to JDM Subarus what Lutz is doing to Holdens for GM - bring them here!
-juice
Ray
If you want to discuss this in more details, let's hop over to the Mods thread.
-juice
Bob
TWRX
My wife Beth is into high end embroidery sewing, and her toys cost $3-5k each. She also comments when I tell her 'Patti stories' how she wishes Husqvarna/Viking, Brother, etc., would monitor/comment/feedback issues on the sewing bulletin boards. We are lucky indeed.
While I have your ear hope you don't mind if I add a few comments on the Toyota issues:
1) My local dealer is a Toyota / Subaru shop. In mid January, before the Sludge issue got national attention, I did a 'while you wait' appt, and could overhear the write-up desk. The service writer was calling customers with estimates & getting approval for work. The Subaru calls were pretty routine - minor service, replacement parts, etc. But the Toyota calls seemed to be dominated by "we noted significant buildup of sludge and recommend the $99 solvent engine flush". Salesmanship? maybe.... It sure seemed wierd at the time. A few weeks later it took on special significance.
2) In November, my sister & b-in-l took delivery of their '02 Sienna, having returned their leased '99 Sienna. Four days and 300 miles later the engine siezed. She said that the vehicle was held as 'exhibit A' until a team from Georga (?) could arrive and dismantle it. The word she got was internal cooling passage restrictions, localized overheating, death... She filed under NJ lemon law and received a new van in December. So far, all is well. Fluke or extreme example? I vote for bad casting or machining, but who knows?
It is of course a real shame. As the rest of the crew knows, I have owned several and have great respect for the marque. But unfortunately, I too felt the sting of 'we don't care' over a transmission problem some years back. And as I told you, I did just help my dad buy an Avalon two weeks ago. Now I pray that he doesn't end up hating me for it!!!
Steve
Patti
-mike
-Frank P.
-mike
That's all I'll say about that.
Ed
Black Box Bad! I can just see trial attorneys, vehicle manufacturers
getting their hands on it and using the information for evil!!!!
-mike
Steve
(Sorry Cliffy!!!) :-)
Steve
-mike
-Frank P.
I am waiting for the day when the 'EasyPass' toll tag system begins being used for automatic speeding ticket generation. I understand that the data has already been used in criminal prosecution - whereabouts and time sequences.
Steve
-mike
What I'd like to see is that they are standardized on all cars, but also that they are barred from being used as evidence in any sort of litigation.
Yes, I mean any.
-Colin
Why am I not suprised? ;-)
-Frank P.
Are we having fun yet?
Patti
-mike
-mike
Imagine someone else forces you off the road and you jump a curb. The Black Box says you were going 120mph and so it's YOUR fault, sorry you'll have to pay for the damage on your car and the other guy's car who bumped you, oh and by the way the insurance will not cover it, and did we tell you that you are under arrest for attempted manslaughter, by the way?
OK, that's a little extreme. ;-)
Bob: I don't think the Toyotas that helped the Taliban for decades make for good publicity. In fact, one Toyota wag was publicly saying how the Taliban bought them for the same reasons Americans do, durability and capability, and another Toyota guy finally told him to "SHUT UP"!
-juice
Unfortunately, a good portion of the population doesn't take responsibility for their own actions.
People drive around without seatbelts and underinflated tires, then sue the manufacturer when they have a blowout.
-Dennis
Is "BIG Brother" under your front seat?
Black Boxes for Cars?
And on a related note (current discussion in N&V)...
Big Brother Cameras and Radar
KarenS
Host
Owners Clubs
Also, I disagree with the use of the hard data. It would end up lost in Congress, where they'd pass the 55 speed limit again, along with a bunch of other laws to limit driving freedoms.
So, do you want to pay maybe $300 so other people can sue you and then end up having to drive 55 on highways designed to carry you safely along at 75? No thanks.
You make a good point, the data COULD be used in a positive way, but do you trust the US government to use it appropriately? I don't.
-juice
-mike
Personally, I don't like the idea, but maybe some people wouldn't mind (and the incentives may help persuade others that may be on the "fence").
Michael
Karen - thanks for directing me there. I'll read up!
Dennis & Chuck - what you are saying is what pushed me to start re-thinking my anti "big brother" position.
I think I'm still on the fence here.
Actually, in Italy, the toll tickets on the Autostrada have the date and time stamped on them...when you arrive at your destination toll booth, the machines automatically calculate your speed thru your journey, and if it is above what it should be as per speed limits, it automatically adds a speeding fine to your toll...no polizia autostradale needed.