Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

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  • bg18947bg18947 Member Posts: 184
    With a drought emergency declared so early in the year in North Jersey, how am I suppose to keep the Legacy clean for the rest of the year? Normally, the car washes miss the wheelwell areas and the under the bumpers. Any advice? Should I cheat and scrub the hard to get areas by hand before bringing it to the car wash? Please rain so that I can keep her spotless!
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The 2003 Range Rover is supposed to start at 70k. I was just challenging the old beliefs that you have to have a beam axle to go off roading. Before Range Rover pioneered using Coil Springs on an off road vehicle in 1970, coventional thought said that off-road vehicles had to have leaf springs front and rear. It took a while but even the Wrangler now uses coil springs. Technology is constantly changing and it is generally for the better.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I agree with most of your points and covered them when I broke the bad news about the car I had convinced him to buy. How is that for a lousy son???

    The only item I had not included is where you have the service done. At first Toyota denied coverage to users of 'Jiffy Lube' and the like, but now they are accepting all proof under govt pressure. I object to the concept of rewarding Toyota dealers with increased routine service traffic by the use of scare tactics.

    Steve
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I'm glad to hear Toyota is finally excepting work from other facilities. Since it is law that they have to, it was only a matter of time. They just made themselves look incredibly stupid in the process. Good reputations are difficult to earn, but easy to lose. Toyota needs to tread carefully here.

    Ty
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Same difference to me :) Either way I doubt anyone will want to do any off-roading with it that full IS will hinder it. :)

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Sorry, you are just wrong. There is plenty of oil in North America, it just costs more $ than even the most expensive of Arab Oil costs to produce. If OPEC raised prices by 200%, we'd stop buying it. But if they did that, they know they'd have zero income, and would just be wandering around the desert. So there is a delicate balance. Besides, why would we care if we fought a war for oil? Wars are fought to maintain the current or desired way of life, our way of life is to have gas for our cars, hence a war over it.

    -mike
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    There are quite a few Range Rover owners who do serious off-roading. These people have a lot more money than mere mortals like you and I. Early reports from testers and our engineers have there being no loss of off-road ability compared to the current model, which is one of the best off road vehicles on the market. They have increased ground clearance from 8.2" (under differential) to over 11" to compensate for the IFS/IRS.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I will admit to a lot of TV watching the past two weeks. I'm not one who normally spends/waste time in that venue, but I just loved the Olympic's this year.

    Hat's off to my friends up north on an awesome hockey game yesterday!

    Patti
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Oh I'm sure there are a few out there. Also the solid axles are only better for rock crawling, from my experience, so depending on what kind of wheeling they do, it may or may-not hinder them. anytime you have IRS, your diffy clearance will increase, but that isn't necessarily the lowest point anymore in that situation.

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    While I signed that petition months ago, there is now more WRC coverage than there has ever been. The Speedvision Challenge remains as well as F1 and I believe the World Sportbike races (I forget the name).

    Saw the last half of a special on PBS last week about SUV rollovers. They showed the Explorer family that started it all (Firestones) with the teenage girl that got killed. They never mentioned if she was wearing a seat belt.
    Then they showed an interview with a guy that was with a group lobbying in Washington, D.C. against SUV's. Ironically, during the interview a Blazer rolled over half a block down the street.

    -Dennis
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    To both the Canadian hockey teams; although I think the women are more deserving since the men's team is basically an NHL All-Star team.

    -Frank P.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    A friend who just started driving stick emailed me this article. I found it interesting, including how they point out that the sale of manual transmission Subaru's have increased in the last year or so.

    http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB1014333997711983440,00.html


    Mark

  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Mark- Interesting article, thanks for the link.

    -Frank P.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that the increase is stick-shifts sales for Subaru is due solely to the WRX.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Pat,

    Mike is right in a sense, OPEC is by no means the only factor in oil prices. Today they control about 1/3 of the market, which is quite significant if they act as one and don't cheat...

    Unless the Russians start dumping cheap oil and OPEC fails to cut production, like what happened Fall '01.

    Anyway, it is true that the US produces a good bit of crude. Most of it-- the Alaskan pipeline-- is sold to Japan.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The lists of SUV characteristics here make for interesting converstation, but even by Cliff's own rules the Highlander and RAV4 would not quality as SUVs, though the 4Runner would.

    I take issue with the label "SUV", because the traditional SUVs are not sporty. Marketers put the word "Sport" in the name because they though it would sell well, and it was a brilliant move. IMHO, though, the label is dishonest.

    Sports car sales took a nose dive in the mid 90s, and cars like the Supra, 300ZX, RX7, and yes even the SVX disappeared. So they had to replace that trend with another. Hmm, let's see, trucks are a cash cow, so let's keep the "Sport" label even though they are virtual opposites from sports cars, and voila! The SUV craze.

    When I was in Belize and Suriname, I noticed the 4Runner is called the Hilux SW4, for station wagon with 4WD. That's what they are, in all honesty. But "SUV" sounds a lot better than SW4, so they didn't dare use the term wagon.

    People like to categorize, but that's getting harder and harder. The PT Cruiser is a minivan, say the feds, but it won North American Car of the Year, and it's really a stylish wagon. The MDX is based on a minivan which in turn is based on the Accord, but it won North American Truck of the Year.

    So, it's going to get harder and harder to categorize, so I won't bother trying. I'll just test drive the thing with 4 wheels that best meets my needs, regardless of the silly labels they use now.

    -juice

    PS I don't agree that CR "lost" that lawsuit against Isuzu. Isuzu sued for libel and lost. CR got a slap in the wrist for about half the complaints Isuzu brought up, it certainly was not 11/12. I think there were 25 or so and it was less than half.
  • peterson10peterson10 Member Posts: 116
    That burns me! One minor mention of Subaru in an article on the resurgence of manual transmissions in the US. Ten years ago you couldn't FIND a manual transmission on a passenger car, save for Subaru. I remember well: Honda, Toyota, (even the domestic makes) all "claimed" to have them, but to get one you had to place a special order. Funny, didn't they once call it a "standard" transmission?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'll find the link that shows Isuzu winning 11/12 counts. Although there was no damage awarded.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That may be from Isuzu's point of view. I'd be curious to read it, though, having read CR's point of view in print.

    Here's my other beef with the use of the term "SUV". Sport mandates a manual transmission, no exceptions. No slush boxes, sorry, sport means shifting it yourself. Kudos to Toyota for even offering a 5 speed manual on the 4Runner, but most SUVs don't.

    -juice
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    We EXPORT most of our Alaskan crude production??
    I'm amazed! I may be showing my ignorance but I didn't know that. And then we talk about our 'dependance on foreign oil'.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    C'mon Juice you have to be kidding right? YOu are talking about sports cars not SUVs. The sport part can mean a whole host of things, like you can bring along your sports equipment (Jet skis, snow mobiles, boats, campers, bikes, etc. etc.) A 5-speed 4-runner is not going to outrun some of the more powerful SUVs, so that blows away any link between 5-speed and sporting ability of SUVs.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    IIRC, Toyota no longer offers a 5-speed on the 4Runner. However, the new Explorer does.

    Bob
  • outback165outback165 Member Posts: 108
    Hey all-

    I know I haven't been around much, lots going on re changing jobs, getting ready for a move (haven't made a final decision on next job, and therefore don't know yet where we're moving to!)

    I am jealous of everyone who participated in the Valentine's Day chat. I thought of you... albeit briefly!!!

    Anyhow, just got back from some interviews in the NYC area. While I was up there I saw the wildest thing: A previous generation Legacy L wagon with Outback clothes on! Specifically, had the gold paint on the sides and bumpers and had fog lights installed (not with the Outback covers though). Also, had a "cheesy" Outback sticker on the tail gate (no offense if this car belongs to anyone reading!!!) Can't speak for wheels, we were on the LIE at approx 60MPH! It was funny though because there was a real OB in front of it, and looking at the two cars you could see the ground clearance difference. Neat idea for an OB buyer wanna-be on a TIGHT budget....

    Pete.
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    I think Mike is right. In this part of the world, the very first people to get SUVs were "sportsmen," ie people who drove bad little roads to go hunting or used the vehicle to tow a walleye boat. The original marketing of SUVs here was 100% aimed at active sportsmen.
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    So, you leavin the great state of Florida?
  • outback165outback165 Member Posts: 108
    It looks that way! The state can't really afford to loose a Subie owner, but alas, career pressures!
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    Just reading the posts and catching up. I was in a 3day leadership course through Landmark Forum so I barely had enough energy to go to sleep, if that makes any sense at all. :-)

    Serge: Yeah, I put the WRX sedan's 20mm rear sway bar on (even did the installation myself..whoa!). I loved the transformation but wasn't comfortable w/the oversteer capabilities in slippery stuff. I kind of felt (seat of the pants thing) that it took some of the advantages of AWD away when the going got tough. I balanced the situation out with an upgrade to a 22mm front swaybar from Whiteline. That seemed to do the trick (no, I didn't install that one by myself, LOL).

    Fibber: Yeah, we Steves, Stephens, Stevens, etc need to stick together. Who knows we may become the dominant name on the Soobie boards. What that gets us I haven't a clue though. :-)

    I want to congratulate the Canadian Hockey team. I was secretly rooting for them given their past Olympic disappointments.

    Just to give a WRX update, my next mod is upgrading to 17" Bridgestone S-03s in a 225/45 size and either the SSR Comp wheels or the soon-to-be at Tirerack Prodrive GC-07s
    Here are some pics of this new Prodrive wheel:

    http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143855

    And some pics of the SSR Comps on a silver sedan:

    http://i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79078&highlight=SSR

    Stephen
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But mike, that would make a roomier minivan more of a "sport van" because it has more space?

    Sport should refer to the vehicle itself, not the stuff in it. Otherwise a semi with a load of tennis balls would quality.

    The sportsmen you guys are talking about bought Grand Cherokee Wagoneers, again before the SUV label had even arrived. Most SUV owners are soccer moms. Sportsmen usually get pickups.

    Bob: a manual Explorer? 4 door?

    Pete: that'll create a 25% drop in ownership in Florida!

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well there are a lot of names we give vehicles that are based on their origin, rather than their actual current usage... 350hp, does that mean there are 350 horses under the hood? Are they thorobreads? Clydesdales? :)

    I thought only the Explorer sport came with a MT, although bob could be referring to the 5-speed AT in the explorers(he didn't specify that it was an MT)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd be surprised to see a true manual in an Explorer 4 door. That's what I meant - manual, not just the number of ratios.

    -juice
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Around here, sport was used to refer to how the vehicles were used. You are right about Grand Cherokees being popular with the outdoors crowd (which is far more prevalent here than you'd guess; 1 in 6 Minnesotans owns a boat). Guys around here jumped on the Blazer when it came out, and then everyone had to buy a Suburban. If you are travelling every weekend with guns or expensive fishing gear in your vehicle, you do not want a truck.

    When I bought my Trooper in '86, the SUV name hadn't caught on although people were beginning to perceive this as a new category of vehicle. Around here it seemed the "sport" word was used to promote sales to sportsmen.

    Car makers and dealers were really surprised later when women started driving these things. Bronco II was a big breakthrough on that. Women liked the high seating position, the perception of bulk and safety plus here 4WD is a potential lifesaver in our winters.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I actually meant Grand Wagoneer, before they changed the name and restyled them. Old Suburbans, too.

    Go to a soccer field, and check out the parking lot. It's about 50% SUVs, 25% minivans, 25% cars. At least around me. Trucks are going to outsell cars this year for the first time, watch.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I think they should re-classify some SUVs (most of them) into the SMV class. Soccor Mom Vehicle! :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Agreed!

    It's funny, around here there is a popular MSI bumper sticker (Montgomery Soccer Inc) and most of the time I see it it's on an SUV.

    -juice
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    This is making the rounds, so I figured I'd share it with you before you hear about it. This issue has been very upsetting to us at Subaru. There is another "rumor" e-mail going around. Without going into details that are too nasty to repeat, I'd like for folks to know - up front - the response. This is an official quote from our Executive Group.

    Israel Map Issue

    February 25, 2002

    Subaru of America, Inc. has received several inquiries alleging that the Subaru parent company, Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., is distributing world maps that do not include Israel. This is completely inaccurate. Fuji Heavy Industries has not published or distributed a map of the kind we have heard described. In fact, Israel has been a very important market for Subaru vehicles over the years, and we look forward to continued success for many years to come.

    An e-mail containing this erroneous information also confuses Fuji Heavy Industries with Fujifilm, a completely separate company that is not related to Subaru/Fuji Heavy Industries.

    Subaru of America, Inc. is deeply troubled that a few misinformed individuals would link our organization to such an unacceptable practice. We would greatly appreciate your assistance in communicating the facts concerning this topic.

    I am posting this here to ask if you would, please, make sure that you share the "truth" if you get hit with this rumor?

    Thanks in advance.

    Patti
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    How awful for you and the company, Patti. Wasn't there just a vicious e-mail going around claiming Subaru hadn't responded appropriately to 9-11? Two scurrilous e-mail attacks in a short time almost seems like someone is targeting you.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    My sympathies on the e-mail rumor mill. Toyota just went through something like that as well. There was a rumor that Toyota had not donated to the 9/11 fund, when in fact, Toyota was one of the first with a 1 million donation. Their current total is over $1.9 million. Toyota was able to trace the source of one of those e-mail chain letters... it went back to the corporate headquarters of a domestic car manufacturer. I'm not kidding.

    Subaru will get through this one. Your presence here can't help but assist with that.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Wow that is pretty lame for Toyota IMHO. Toyota is one of if not the biggest foreign auto-manufacturer. I think GE donated like 15M on the first day or something.

    I think The 48hrs of Tri-state donated over $1000, although I'm still tallying the final donation amount, so that could count for SOA's end! :)

    -mike
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    Thanks for the map info...I haven't seen that one yet
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm sure everyone here will do their part to squash this rumor if we see it.

    Bob
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Toyota is currently having some customer relation problems relating to engine sludge. I have NO intention of bringing this discussion up here, but let me explain a few things. According to Toyota's research, Toyota products are no more likely to sludge than any other car. All their research validates this. Further, every case they have examined of a sludged engine suggests poor maintenance.

    There are those who post at Edmunds who have even been caught giving doctored receipts for oil changes. There is ample evidence that this is a maintenance issue and not a mechanical issue. Change you oil and you will not get sludge.

    Now, here is where you guys come in, Pat in particular. I have been talking to one of the big wigs at Toyota about this whole issue. They are convenienced that this entire debacle could have been avoided if Toyota had a better method of communicating with its customers. They are hunting for a method to do this. One idea is to create a bulletin board at www.toyota.com, but there are some problems with that. Another idea that is being considered is to monitor and participate at Edmunds.

    Pat has really impressed me. Toyota is MUCH bigger than Subaru and I'm not sure they could do the same things she does, but they are looking at it. The investment would be worth it if they can avoid the kind of problems that have come up lately with respect to engine sludge.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Toyota's first donation was on the 15th, and if I remember correctly, was before any of the domestics and I don't think any of the domestics did any more. Besides... I find it uncouth the judge a company or person by the standards of how much money they gave to a charity.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    My understanding is that the new 4-door Explorer can be had with either a 5-speed automatic or a 5-speed manual. I'm not sure if the manual is available in all trim levels, but I'm reasonably certain it's available in the XLT model. I also believe (?) it's available in either 2WD or 4WD.

    The big question: Are dealers stocking any 5-speed manuals? I frankly think finding one would be pretty hard. I have not checked dealer lots, so I really don't know.

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Steve- It's actually "Patti" of SOA fame who monitors these topics. AFAIK, although her participation is sanctioned by SOA, she pretty much does it in her spare time out of the goodness in her heart.

    -Frank P.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I first saw the September 11 automaker email hoax on the i-club. It turned into a huge debate for a couple of days and was eventually locked.
    I did a quick search on Google.com and found that it was a hoax.

    Here's a link showing the truth about the 9/11 automaker email hoax:

    http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blautomakers.htm

    Check out the "Woman Motorist" link at the bottom of that page and find their detailed investigation.

    Anytime you see fishy looking email, just check out Urban Legends on About.com.

    -Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm not trying to judge them, just was commenting on the size that you brought up. $1.9M isn't a whole lot of money for a huge conglomerate to donate. Maybe I'm just a bit more judgemental being that I was 4 blocks away it always hits a sore spot with me.

    -mike
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Out of the goodness of her heart? You mean this isn't part of her job? Hmmm... Well, I guess my participation isn't part of my job either, but I don't work for TMS. Which brings up an interesting question for you and the class. What would your reaction be to a factory presence here at Edmunds?
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    This hoax is really unfair to Subaru... I have a friend who lives in Israel, and he loves to drive his 4WD Justy there. Actually, I've just read somewhere that Subaru was the most widely owned make in Israel for quite a few years, and only recently it was replaced by Mazda...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In the USA, Toyota is the biggest of the import brands. I think they passed Chrysler for 3rd overall, too.

    Sorry, Patti is ours, you can't take her. ;-)

    -juice
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