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My Salesperson Misled Me

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Comments

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Oh come on, you don't really believe that do you? People trade cars for a number of reasons.

    While people do trade cars for many reasons there are plenty out there that get rid of junkers as quick as they can. Also there are a large number of people who trade cars quickly that don't take car of them. I have known people who trade in cars after two years with 20K miles on them in perfect condition. However these people never change oil and otherwise treat their cars with disrespect. They don't care the troubles that that will cause will show up after they get rid of them.

    So while there are plenty of real good used cars out there, I rather spend a few extra bucks on a new car and know my chances of getting a dog are slim.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Although I had many company cars in my corporate life, until I bought my wife a new TL in 05, I have purchased many used vehicles. I just got a 96 Infinity G20 back from one of the kids with 160k on it that I bought with 36k and it is my new winter beater. Runs like a top. I have put over 100k on several used I bought. I will continue to buy used and program cars and let someone else eat the depreciation.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Dang! I missed out on it. I'm always looking for low miles MR2 NA or Turbo 5spd. I miss mine a whole lot! :cry: Should have never sold it.
    :(
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    I try to give buyers tips from lessons learned over the years.

    One thing is options. New cars have options at retail while used cars have used price for options. i.e. That $1k Nav on a 2008 will cost 200 to 300 in 2009 or 2010.
    I have been pricing new Corvettes and found that a 1 year old Vette loaded runs about what a base new one costs. ($45-48k)

    Another item is Dealer fees. Don't just lay down and accept this garbage fee. Buyers can have fees too. My favorite is a money acquisition fee which I require towards the amount due in any contract. It turns out to be exactly what the dealer fee is. Except when dealers add over the top fees like $750-$1000 then I just make my money acquisition fee double theirs because there must be a true lack of money in that area. If I have money and they don't I get to charge for my ability to get money. If they disagree let them get their own money and see how easy it is.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    So what sort of reaction do you get from a dealer when you propose your buyer's fee? I love the thought.

    Used cars. There's millions of great used cars out there. Just a matter of picking right. Out of however many dozen cars I've bought over the years I've only had three headache cars - and two of them were new.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    If you do your research before going to the dealer and have a range you are willing to give OTD then the Doc and Dealer Fees are meaningless.

    They only present a problem if you don't know what you think a fair price is.

    I don't know how I would react if a a customer told me they had a fee for buying a car from us. Probably go to the sales office and talk about you, then laugh about you, then take one more shot at trading with you and if we didn't shake your hand and move on to the next one.

    "Imports are superior"
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    That was done rather tongue in cheek about the money fees, but they make as much sense as dealer fees to a consumer.

    I always know what my fair price is because I use Edmunds. If you promise to mail the title to me I will promise to mail the money to you.

    ps That laughing with the SM or GSM will result in a call to FoMoCo about your dealership if there is so much as a smirk on the salesmans face. Joel, you're a nice guy. Don't play the hardass, it doesn't look good on you. Besides the import comment is correct no matter what the Pats did.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Mako1a I wasn't trying to be hard just stating a fact. I guess I should not have said "laugh at you" I should have said laugh at the situation. Sorry if that came across wrong, thats one of the problems of communicating by internet, tones and expressions are lost.

    You will never find me being something that I am not, I am the same person sitting at the bar having a beer with you as I am sitting behind a desk selling you a loan. If I ever have to change that then I guess i will change professions

    We in private laugh at many situations on a daily basis. No different then many people do in there work place. You can't help but laugh at it.

    The stories shared here are designed for entertainment and to give the members an idea of the day to day stuff that goes on. If you don't look for the humor in otherwise strange or difficult situations you will go crazy.

    "Imports are superior"
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    EVERYBODY drives a used vehicle!
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    So what sort of reaction do you get from a dealer when you propose your buyer's fee? I love the thought.

    ha ha

    I pulled this stunt too, albeit it was for Advertising Fee....If the dealership decal stays on my car, I need advertising fees to the tune of $250/year. The dealership promptly took off their decal.
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    I'm just trying to lend a little assistance to novice buyers. Kind of like a consumers advocate with a small dose of humor.
    You're right, Joel that it often doesn't often translate well in text form.
    No harm intended, but that "next" thing does push my button. Because even though no one will admit it customers are getting scarce.

    Another thing I noticed is that Toyota MSRP stickers include a document fee right at the bottom.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    If I can do a deal that makes sense, then I will not say next. If the deal does not make sense, then next - just like any business.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,331
    If you do your research before going to the dealer and have a range you are willing to give OTD then the Doc and Dealer Fees are meaningless.

    Exactly. I always negotiate an OTD price, so the only numbers on the buyers order I care about are on the bottom line...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • de77de77 Member Posts: 40
    A dealer has the choice to do business with whomever they choose. If you are too expensive as a broker then they can simply pass on the deal, just as you have the right to pass on the deal offered to you and your client.Lord knows a salesman prefers not to deal with a broker. That is why you find broker's are more common in higher end retail cars- there is simply not enough commission room for someone else's hand in your pocket.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Another thing I noticed is that Toyota MSRP stickers include a document fee right at the bottom.

    That's is not a document fee. Toyota changed the name of "Freight" to "Destination Charge" and now to "Processing, Handling, and Delivery fee" or words to that effect. Same horse by a different color.
    Mack
  • de77de77 Member Posts: 40
    so does Ford, Chevy and most makes. They are all about the same range of $600-750. Eg.

    ESCAPE 2008 4DR FWD HYBRID
    2.3L I4 ATKINSON CYCLE ENGINE
    ECVT AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION Exterior
    LT. ICE BLUE CLEARCOAT MET
    Interior
    STONE PREMIUM CLOTH BUCKETS .....

    .SAT RADIO/6 MOS SVC(NA AK/HI)
    6-CD/MP3 295
    __________
    TOTAL VEHICLE & OPTIONS 26,805
    DESTINATION & DELIVERY 665

    TOTAL MSRP $27,470
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Does any make not have a destination fee?

    "Imports are superior"
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Haha, Jip.

    I have a story about my customers misleading me, I suppose I should post that in the Sales forum instead of here. :(
  • elmira1elmira1 Member Posts: 5
    On Saturday I selected a new 2007 Honda Accord from a local dealer and gave them my down payment. I was to pick it up Tuesday evening after they detailed it, etc. Tonight they called me as I was driving to the dealer and told me that they had taken some parts out of the car to put into another car that came in for service.

    The car is undriveable until tomorrow, when they can put in the parts. My sales guy did not know what parts they removed. According to him, some lines of communication were crossed and my sales guy was not aware that the car had been "cannibalized" but assured me that they were putting in brand new parts, etc.

    I have 2 issues here.

    1. The whole customer service issue surrounding this. They really didn't know the state of the car until I was driving 45 minutes to the dealer? They are willing to give me my first 4 oil changes for free as compensation for the delay.

    2. Is it normal for a dealer to just take parts out of a new car sitting on the lot to service the same model year that came in for service? Being in Hawaii, I understand that parts often take longer than on the mainland, but this practice seems shady.

    I got a fair price on the car, like the car, and were it not for this incident I would have been quite pleased to hand over my $$. However, this cannibalization/parting out gives me pause. Is this just an inconvenience or should I run like hell to another dealer?
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    It happens. At least they called you before you arrived to pick it up. I would go ahead with the transaction if the store (via the technician, not the salesman) showed me exactly what parts were swapped and I was satisfied that the integrity of the car had not been compromised.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    On one hand they dissed and inconvientienced you because they gave preferential treatment to a customer with a used car over you, the new car buyer. On the other hand they were honest and let you know your car was being cannibalized (good choice of words). But, on the third hand, what they did really sucks. Pulling parts out of a new car that you had put money down on. I don't know how they do business in Hawaier.. but here on the mainland we run like hell when dealerships pull that kind of stuff.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Is it normal for what they did? No, but I'm sure it has happened before, though rare. You're in Hawaii and I'm sure there are parts that they just don't expect to go, so they don't stock them until the model is a few years old. But you said you got a fair price and you really like the car, so I'd do what ccompson recommended.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    It happens

    It does. That's a scary thought. First I've ever heard of it. I think it borders on fraud.
    I wouldn't care if the only thing they switched out were the windshield wipers, this is totally unacceptable. :mad:

    At least they called you before you arrived to pick it up

    Hardly a positive that the dealership called her while she was already in her car on the way to the dealership.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    You're in Hawaii and I'm sure there are parts that they just don't expect to go, so they don't stock them until the model is a few years old.

    This doesn't make any sense mikeam. The dealership makes elmira wait a day to pick up her new car, but they can't make used car owner wait a day to get a part?

    It's not like the used car owner would be driving across state lines or anything. Where's he going that he can't get a loaner for a day? I'd tell the dealership to unwind the deal... or offer just compensation for my lost time and their lack of consideration. Anything more complicated than a lugnut removal and I would walk.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    I assume you are on Oahu, as you mention there are multiple dealers. Sometimes parts are not available, so they pull them. As you will get new parts, it is not a big deal (from the perspective of the car). However, I would ask for more than 4 oil changes for the inconvenience, particularly if the dealer is 45 minutes from your house (rush hour or off rush hour? traffic in HI is horrible).
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I would have gone to another dealer or have them get me a different car and some compensation for pain and suffering.
    :shades:
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    On one hand they dissed and inconvientienced you because they gave preferential treatment to a customer with a used car over you, the new car buyer.

    Where did miss the part where they said his "customer with a used car" did not originally buy the car new from them. Which would make them what??? A new car buyer just like the poster.

    Put the shoe on the other foot and say it was your 2007 model car sitting in service and you have been waiting say 2 day for a part to come in.

    To accommodate you the service customer (which every one here always says service after the sale is important, don't just sell me a car and forget about me) they take a part off of a new car that at that point no one had bought to get you back on the road.

    On another message board some place the customer who had there car in service is singing this dealers praises for going above and beyond.

    If you want Murphy's Law to kick in take a part off a car in stock to take care of a service customer and see if you don't sell it the next day.

    The best advice I can give the poster is hope they are as accommodating for you if your car is ever in service as they were for this service customer.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    A person can twist this both ways.

    I think the term "canniblizing" is a bit over the top and I'm sure no harm whatever was done to the new car in the process.

    Yes, someone was put off but someone else was helped in the process.

    A person can look at this as something "bad" or as "something that happened" and move on. Life is short!

    There are two Honda stores on Oahu. If the original poster feels uncomfortable with the circumstances, the other store is a short drive away.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    Where did miss the part where they said his "customer with a used car" did not originally buy the car new from them. Which would make them what??? A new car buyer just like the poster.

    The poster wrote that her new car part was pulled for a car that "came in for service". So, you've got a part from a new (yet to be driven) car being pulled to put in a "used" car. Absolutely positively cannot see how anyone in there right mind would think this is okay... not that you're not in your right mind.

    Put the shoe on the other foot and say it was your 2007 model car sitting in service and you have been waiting say 2 day for a part to come in.

    No. The poster said her new car would be available the next day when the part came in. So, as I stated before... if it takes one day for the part to become available, why not have used car owner wait one day instead of yanking the part from new car buyer and have her wait one day? She had put money down on the car and was probably less than 20 minutes from the dealership to pick it up when they called to tell her they had to cannibalize her car for another customer. That's not what I call "accommodating"... "going above and beyond", even if I put the shoe on the other foot it still doesn't fit.

    But, that seems to be the mentality that a lot of dealerships have. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. There's a chance this customer won't show up to claim the car she put a deposit down on and is suppose to pick up in 20 minutes, so we'll take this guys money. That's just bad business and poor customer service. I sure wouldn't buy or have my car serviced at such a dealership.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Still don't know where it says that the service customer did not buy the car new from the dealer to start with. I guess if the poster buys this car and has a problem in a week she is nothing more then a used car customer and will have to just suck it up while the dealer accommodates the folks buying new cars. That is a great way to cut down on repeat and referral sales, that way you don't have all that darn paper work to mess with :D

    In this case the customer was not misled, they were not lied to, they were unconvinced for a day and given approx $100 in free service for there troubles.

    That is great the part is coming in the next day. Wonder how long they had been waiting for it?

    No we don't make a habit of this practice but I would say that if there is a shop in the biz that says they have never done it they may be fibbing a bit. They personally may have never done it but it does happen on the rare occasion.

    People don't want excuses they want results. If your car has been in the shop for 3 days you don't want to hear I will have the part tomorrow you want to hear that you can pick your car up at 4:00 PM.

    People are funny though, I see people blow up over the most trivial things and then when a major problem comes along that expect to be a problem they are as understanding as can be.
  • elmira1elmira1 Member Posts: 5
    Thanks for the replies, all.

    To clarify, the parts were removed on Thursday, before I'd even come into the dealership. The sales guy said that someone forgot to mark it in their system that they were waiting on parts for it. The parts came in Tuesday afternoon and the car will be ready today.

    I am on Oahu, where there are 3 Honda dealers. I had a terrible experience with the one closest to my home and the other one has a bad reputation as well. This dealer is supposed to be the best on island.

    "Cannibalizing" is the sales guy's word, not mine!

    I definitely want to know what parts they were and he's going to email me the service record today.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Thx for the clarification about the other Honda dealers and their reps, that does change things. In light of that, I would continue with the deal as long as you're OK with what parts were swapped.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    We don't know the whole situation about the other car. They may be a multiple repeat customer who pays MSRP and also buys the ext. warranty as well as pre-paid service contract. Who would you appease if that were the case? And I am surprised at your harsh stance.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    I think you're missing the point joel. Try the shoe on the other foot thing you were talking about. You don't rob Peter to pay Paul. That is unethical... and is basically what this case is all about.

    If the poster ends up buying the car, and has problems in a week where a new part is needed, the professional thing to do, that is fair to both parties, is to say we don't have the part but will have it shipped in 3 days. Not pull the part from a new car that has been promised to another person. You're certainly not "accomadating" the new car buyer, by selling them the car they are paying their hard earned money for, with all the original parts still intact.

    Curious as to what you think are parts that okay to pull and those that wouldn't be?? If I'm buying a $30k car I don't want some grease monkey sticking a wrench in my new car scratching up my bolts and nuts. NO WAY, IT CRAZY, BOO... BOOO! :P
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    We don't know the whole situation about the other car.

    Doesn't matter. Unless the used car owner is Michael Jackson on "Kids Free Balloon Day", they should have to suck it up and wait for the parts arrival like anyone else. Just because somebody pays MSRP doesn't give the dealership the right to deflower my brand new automobile. It's basically the same as repair work, even if replacing new part with new part. You don't know if the new part was installed correctly,. Certainly not as good as the manufacturers installation.

    Who would you appease if that were the case?

    I would do the right, and smart, thing. Tell Mr. MSRP the dealership will pay to provide him with a free loaner until the part to his car came in. Tell Ms. new car buyer her vehicle is 100% pure and ready to go. That way you two satisfied customers instead of one... and no one gets screwed over. :shades:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    You don't rob Peter to pay Paul.

    I've seen this done a number of times and I see no issue with it. It's not robbing anyone. You're helping a customer get parts that may not be available immediately by taking the same new parts of a vehicle in stock (unsold). When the new parts get in, you put them back on the vehicle they were taken from.

    If all parts needed took just 3 days to get, then this would never happen. Many times there are backorders on parts or they simply aren't available yet. So, to take care of the customer who actually purchased a vehicle, they take the parts from a vehicle on the lot. Nothing sinister or shady about it. I think it's just good business.

    Also, it's all under warranty, so what's the issue?

    -moo
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    You don't know if the new part was installed correctly,. Certainly not as good as the manufacturers installation.

    ..... C'mon Jip. It's probably put back even better than the original. I think you just want to have an argument about something this morning.

    Let's argue about what the best pie is! Rhubarb. Go.

    -moo
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    The alternative is to have a customer with a NEW vehicle that will be unable to use the car for a week or two ...

    Is that preferable to YOU, Jipster??
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    What type of parts we talking about here moo? Do you think this type of cannibalization would be acceptable to your new Porsche buyers. I kind of doubt it.

    The issue to me is having a dealership removing and installing parts on a new car, which always has some risk... even if minimal. If I'm buying new I wouldn't want a car that the alternator has been switched out on. To me it would be robbing the customer of the fresh from the factory experience. If I buy a loaf of bread at a grocery store I don't want someone taking out a piece of my fresh bread to replace a piece of their old stinky stale bread they bought a week ago. :sick:

    But, you guys keep talking about helping the used car customer so he doesn't have to wait longer for the part to come in. Let's not forget about the new car buyer, who is minutes from the dealership to close on a car she had put a deposit down. Not yet "sold"... but damn close.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    The alternative is to have a customer with a NEW vehicle that will be unable to use the car for a week or two ...

    Is that preferable to YOU, Jipster??
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    What type of parts we talking about here moo? Do you think this type of cannibalization would be acceptable to your new Porsche buyers. I kind of doubt it.

    The issue to me is having a dealership removing and installing parts on a new car, which always has some risk... even if minimal. If I'm buying new I wouldn't want a car that the alternator has been switched out on. To me it would be robbing the customer of the fresh from the factory experience. If I buy a loaf of bread at a grocery store I don't want someone taking out a piece of my fresh bread to replace a piece of their old stinky stale bread they bought a week ago. :sick:

    But, you guys keep talking about helping the used car customer so he doesn't have to wait longer for the part to come in. Let's not forget about the new car buyer, who is minutes from the dealership to close on a car she had put a deposit down. Not yet "sold"... but damn close.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    The alternative is to have a customer with a NEW vehicle that will be unable to use the car for a week or two ...

    Is that preferable to YOU, Jipster??
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Not pull the part from a new car that has been promised to another person.

    This is the problem. There was a breakdown in lines of communication. Service did not know the car was in process of being sold. The salesman did not mark the car sold/in process/whatever. They have admitted this error, and are taking steps to compensate the buyer. From what has been described, it appears the salesperson moved quickly upon discovering the error.

    It is possible that things transpired differently from what has been described, but there is nothing solid here to indicate that is the case. Certainly not an ideal situation, but things happen. Simple error that most likely is a harmless error, other than the inconvenience to the buyer.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    What type of parts we talking about here moo? Do you think this type of cannibalization would be acceptable to your new Porsche buyers. I kind of doubt it.

    The issue to me is having a dealership removing and installing parts on a new car, which always has some risk... even if minimal. If I'm buying new I wouldn't want a car that the alternator has been switched out on. To me it would be robbing the customer of the fresh from the factory experience. If I buy a loaf of bread at a grocery store I don't want someone taking out a piece of my fresh bread to replace a piece of their old stinky stale bread they bought a week ago.

    But, you guys keep talking about helping the used car customer so he doesn't have to wait longer for the part to come in. Let's not forget about the new car buyer, who is minutes from the dealership to close on a car she had put a deposit down. Not yet "sold"... but damn close.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Does the dealer have only one car on the lot--this one?

    Why not take some parts off other cars, put them on the one being purchased, and the new owner drives away happy with compensation for the delayed delivery? :shades:

    Now back to Martha's Food Channel

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Your stance is much stronger then mine on this so I am going to let it lay. ;)
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    On the site.

    It sure perfomed better before you released the new model year.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    LOL, yeah really, I got tired of reading jip's post over and over again.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    LOL, yeah really, I got tired of reading jip's post over and over again

    I figure if I bashed you guys over the head with it long enough it would sink in. ;)

    Actually, I had some problems with that post. I kept hitting "Post MY Message" but I kept getting "site not responding".
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    The alternative is to have a customer with a NEW vehicle that will be unable to use the car for a week or two ...

    Is that preferable to YOU, Jipster??


    Is what preferable to me? I don't understand yo question. Unable to use a new vehcile for a week or two... that would certainly be weak. :sick:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
This discussion has been closed.