She financed the car so its not title to her until she pays it off. So the dealer said she would be financed and then four days went by and they said they couldnt secure her financing bring the car in and we will sell you "ONE OF OUR FINE PRE-OWNED CARS" WHICH IS WHAT WE WANTED TO BEGIN WITH!!! aND AS WE WERE TEST DRIVING ONE OF THE 4 CARS THE SALESMEN KINDLY SAID YOU DONT WANT USED THEY ARE JUNK. But now they want us to come in and give back the new car. Incidently they called and we said we would be in today or tomorrow. I still agree with you,they should not have delivered her the car.
No title work done and yet she gets to drive away? Hey, can we work a deal like that on a 911 turbo? That sounds a lot like they just loaned her a car in the hopes she would get financed. No obligation whatsoever if it falls out. I would love a deal like that! I could practice my drift racing or ice driving. I would have to get a full tank and bring it back empty. Spot deliver me anytime. Sounds like fun.
"...Which dealer employee held a gun to Mom's head..."
People with anxiety disorders often find it difficult to resist pressure. Just the kind of person who should not be left alone with a salesperson, ANY salesperson. Should the sales staff known this? Of course not. They were doing their job, selling cars.
Some one should have gone with mom.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Yup, no title work done and she drives away. Loaner agreement signed, I would think.
Hey, can we work a deal like that on a 911 turbo?
Well, the truth is, it isn't done at this store. We've got a little more invested in the vehicles than $15k. :P
They DID just loan her the car in the hopes that the deal would get financed. As I mentioned before, when this happens, the banks will sometimes feel the need to go ahead and approve the deal even though they wouldn't normally.
Ya, it sucks man. The reality is, she probably won't be financed on a preowned one either. You were pushed in the new car direction because it's easier to get financed than a preowned. They just want you back in the store with their vehicle.
They probably shouldn't have "spot" delivered the vehicle. Just bring the car back and ask to have them tow her trade back to the house.
Wash your hands of the matter and find another route.
There's your answer, kmartin. Start mom off at a Porsche dealer where they are not likely to spot deliver. Get a bead on her ability to make payments then start down the line to affordability. If she actually qualifies for xxx/month then put her in the car with lowest months till payoff as long as she likes the car and will drive it beyond months owed.
Title is issued in buyers name with or without lien when purchase is made.
Clear title means no salvage, repurchase, flood or other damage making vehicle worth less than actual value. Just because money is owed on a vehicle you still get title in your name and can trade, sell or dispose of a vehicle as soon as debt is paid.
Seriously, mom should pay cash from a private seller after a mechanic inspects the vehicle and Edmunds pricing is near price you're willing to pay. Or she could clean up her credit (maybe 2 years)...then go finance a new or used vehicle. Tip: Used vehicles don't finance well and over 7 year old vehicles rarely finance at all. That's what makes them bargains for cash buyers. Ding Ding.
I think the something that is missing is that the buyer didn't understand how the financing would work, she probably should have, but didn't. If I understand the system correctly, a dealer will do a spot delivery before the financing is secured to prevent the buyer from getting cold feet. The thinking is that if a customer has to wait a week they may change their mind and blow the deal. In this case it seems Mom took the car too soon because she thought the deal was done. If I had to fault the dealer it would be for not explaining this to her.
During a recent car purchase I would not take delivery until I saw in writing that the financing was approved. I waited two extra days but there was no way I was going to bring the damn thing back.
I feel sorry for the poster and his mom. Next time come to Edmunds first.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think you're right though. Find a cash car that might be reliable. Old Civic, Maxima, something along those lines. Maybe pay $3-4k for something and build up the credit.
The thinking is that if a customer has to wait a week they may change their mind and blow the deal.
That's exactly right too. Hopefully by putting the vehicle on the road, the banks will finance, the buyer won't back out and the dealer gets a sale. All in all, spot delivery really blows.
The dealer is saying they have about 5 pre-owned cars they can get her financing on..Is this a joke? I figure with 500.oo cash and the 1500.00 they gave her for the trade in thats 2000.00 they cant put that on a used car and get her financing?
I know this sounds funny but i too used to sell cars about 10 years ago..and being the good daughter that i am i TRIED to be upfront and spill my guts to the dealer hoping i guess that we wouldnt get screwed with.. thing is she doent care about the she just needs to get back and forth to work and this just got way blown up.
Miracles can happen. I doubt it though. New cars are normally the best bet. Provided they have rebates. Try it out. If they are just screwing with you, then move onto the next place.
Not at all, just when you mentioned building up her credit I thought you meant financing a 3-4k which you know is going to be high mileage more than likely and no bank or credit union will touch unless you take a personal loan. Mack
Take the car back. Take the car back. Take the car back.
You said the dealer asked her to bring the car back. Take the car back.
You mother has no legal claim on the car. If the dealership tows their car from her driveway, they might be able to sock her with more charges.
Start over again. Tow her old car back to her driveway. What will that cost, $75? You can then start over at some other car place. Every town is full of these.
Ahh, no I didn't mean to lump the 3k purchase and building credit as 1 thing. I meant that separately. Although..... when I was younger, I remember I got a personal loan from BoA for an auto. I think the total amount was like $3,000. It showed up on my credit as an auto and did help build my credit. I'm sure that can happen now as well.
"...You're a salesman farmer. You ever try to low jack in a bag of green beans..."
No, I'm proud to say that I never knowingly took advantage of a customer's ignorance or anxiety, although I could have. Trouble is, I used to be a social worker and those pesky professional ethics tend to get in the way.
Your question got me thinking. I have seen customers who would have willingly spent hundreds of dollars for products which would have been totally unsuited to their purpose. In the car biz I think it would take an exceptional salesperson to resist taking advantage of these types. I mean, I'm the owner of my business so I only have to answer to my own morality. In car sales if you let the whale swim away you could find yourself unemployed. I'm glad I don't sell cars.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
You're correct. Long time ago they wouldn't do that and credit union loans wouldn't show up on credit reports. I'm dating myself now, dang I'm getting old.!
I'm the owner of my business so I only have to answer to my own morality.... I have seen customers who would have willingly spent hundreds of dollars for products which would have been totally unsuited to their purpose
Not to be nosey... but what exactly do you do oldfarmer? Do you run your own farmers fruit and vegetable market? There's a couple huge "You Pick Em" farms around Louisville. They have the farmers market, you pick fields with pumpkins, apples etc, restaurant, winery, etc. Those things must make buckets of money... at least off me they have. Very nice place to take the family though.
Just the kind of person who should not be left alone with a salesperson, ANY salesperson.
When I was in sales I would have ran away from someone like that if they would have said "please don't do this to me" then want to go ahead with the deal. It could show diminished mental capacity and can nullify any contract. Not worth the possible hassle.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
your story could have been written by my daughter BUT she said NO!!! My daughter owns a 04 Hyundai accent with almost 80,000 miles. It has been in several accidents and fixed. (I showed Mack some of the pictures showing the damage) While she was at the Hyundai dealer getting somethings fixed (finally) she looked at the new accent. The salesman asked her the usual questions. She told him about the accent and what she was paying a month ($238.68) It is almost paidoff. The salesman tells her she could be driving a new accent for almost the same payment. She informs him that she has bad credit and hewould have to be a miracle worker. He goes and checks it out and comes back with payments of more almost $200.00 more a month more because of her credit. (DUH) He then tries wouldn't you like to be driving home in a new car. She almost did but decided she would just pay to get her car repaired. I am proud of her. She is now trying to get her credit back on track (460fico score) I am not blaming the salesman-he is doing his job and he did not put a gun to her head.
I am pretty sure your mom signed one of these. The form varies from state to state but the general verbage is the same. Everyone that cries foul when the deal begins to unwind knows damn good and well that they are conditionaly delivered.
Side note: Before the wolves pounce, the only deals I have ever had to unwind were the ones that the customers have given bad info on the front end.. I have never had to hook a car that I delivered soley on the basis that I could not secure finances.
Isell, that makes sense to a point. If the deal is a crap shoot then I can see not rolling it. But if it is Friday evening and I have a deal I know I can get done Monday morning even if it is a 520 credit score I am going to roll the car subject to. If it is a rough deal but has a glimmer of hope I am going to contract and then schedule delivery when the deal is approved. if they have no shot I am going to tell them that i can't help them, submit the deal to one bank so that they can forward an Adverse Action notice to the customer telling them they were turned down.
You are just asking to miss a sale if you tell some one on Friday that you will get back with them on Monday. You have given them two days to find a dealer that will deliver them.
Though I believe through previous discussions your store does not deal with sub prime at all.
About a year ago my daughter had her 04 accent repoed by Hyundai finance. She had her priorities mixed up at the time-(clothes, concert tickets, etc) She paid all the late payments, late fees, storage fees and whatever other fees they tacted on. she got the car back (expensive lesson learned).I was a bad parent, made her pay it. She makes the payments on time. She told me it did not show up on her credit report. My question is should it be there or is it listed some other way besides reposession.
Sounds like she purchased from a buy her, pay here lot. Is that the case? If so, that's the reason why I didn't show up on her credit. These places typically don't report to the credit bureaus.
My daughter bought the car new at a hyundai dealer in Pa. (not one of those BHPH places) The loan is in her name only-no co-signer. As I stated before the loan was from Hyundai Finance.
Fortunately I have never seen one of these "agreements" and I’m sure most of the posters here haven’t either. Just to become educated about the biz, I acted as though this "agreement" was presented to me for signature. Nowhere did I notice that that there would be a charge for any miles put on the vehicle during this conditional period.
In the case of the poster whose mother is being told to return the car, the poster noted that the car now has at least 500 miles on it. Does that mean, (unless it is written in on this document or any others presented for signature), that the hopeful buyer had free use of the car until it was returned? I’m assuming that there was no damage to the car; only miles were put on it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Everyone that cries foul when the deal begins to unwind knows damn good and well that they are conditionaly delivered.
Thanks joel. Best piece of information to come out here in over a decade. I was starting to think that the dealership owner was one of those evil Sith Lords that Amad1 was talking about. The mom got a new car rental for 4 days... for nothing, not to shabby.
believe it or not i was there with her we had the deal where we wanted it.I phoned them in ADVANCE at about 2 in the sfternoon gave them ALL the deaail of her credit issues. She has steady employent (2yrs on job 1yr in condo ect.) And a secure pension that would cover the car payment if she ever lost her job or something,heck they could direcft deposit the carpayment if they wanted to. I told them about her condition And that we wanted to come in for some relaible used inexpensive vehicle yet they still put her in a new one and said they could get it done."they could on this one ,no its this one wait a minute maam for sure we can get you financed on THIS CAR RIGHT HERE. Four days later they called and said sorry. She has had the car almost two weeks(mon.) They said they want to finance her at 25% . The dealer and my mom are still in communication we are waiting for something a bit better than that maybe 15% thats not asking too much. She is not like an illegal thats going to flee to mexico or canada ya know?
And that we wanted to come in for some reliable used inexpensive vehicle yet they still put her in a new one and said they could get it done.
You keep saying that... like you were totally powerless in the transaction. Unless you and your mom were put under some hypnotic voodoo spell, you should take responsibility. You put yourselves in that new car.
Perhaps the dealership could have been a bit blunt and told you they couldn't get you financed at a "used car" rate. The body language was loud and clear though.
Well now you are just taking advantage of a situation. If she was crying in the F&I office "Please don't do this to me" and she had a chance to get out, but now she is STILL in the car. If she was as distraught and mentally unstable as you say, and you were in the biz, and you saw an opportunity to take the car back and be clean of the situation, but she is still in the car I would say you have no room to complain and need to sign what ever the deal is.
when i say she said dont do this to me i mean dont tell me i can get financed in this new car and then have it go wrong somewhere. They ASSURED us after being in and out of the fince office this deal was a go. They are letting her keep the car i guess untill we find a suitable deal. They say they are working on it... whatever
first i say she has bad credit..its some old stuff that needs some attention with no established new credit ,frankly we let them pull the credit and we still dont know what her score even is.(our bad we shouldve done this prior iknow) And who wouldnt want the new car if they are telling her it is a definate go on new. We were surprised too..thats where please dont do this to me comes in ya know.
when i say she said dont do this to me i mean dont tell me i can get financed in this new car and then have it go wrong somewhere. They ASSURED us after being in and out of the fince office this deal was a go. They are letting her keep the car i guess untill we find a suitable deal. They say they are working on it... whatever
You may have sold cars but it could not have been for more then a month because this dealership is playing you and your mom like a 6 string banjo.
If I was you and your mom was truly as distraught and mentally unstable I would bring the car back yesterday. Some one in her condition could have a wreck and then be stuck with a wrecked car she can't afford.
You keep saying that... like you were totally powerless in the transaction. Unless you and your mom were put under some hypnotic voodoo spell, you should take responsibility. You put yourselves in that new car.
You are wasting your time, we are dealing with a professional victim here...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I should take the time to do a proper profile is what I SHOULD do. Briefly, I grow nursery and vegetable crops which I retail at farmers' markets. Small-time by most standards but it keeps me busy for about 60 hours a week. No buckets of money but on a good day you can get a pail full.
In the winter I drive a school bus.
All in all I make about 1/3 the money I used to but I sleep better at night for a number of reasons.
To keep on topic, I bought my 1985 Ford F-150 from a private party who lied about everything he possibly could.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
you know you are absolutely right..i do feel very stupid at this point. We would love to take the car back but they havent found her something yet i guess and meanwhile she needs to get back and forth to work. she would take the bus if there was one. She has the car fully insured at this point and shes on medication ,...good medication too for the last few days!!!!!We would love to get this handled asap ...really new or used who really wants to drive a car thats not theirs . Well i would if was some fancy sportscar but this car is just a little hatchback...who is going to miss it.
Comments
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
People with anxiety disorders often find it difficult to resist pressure. Just the kind of person who should not be left alone with a salesperson, ANY salesperson. Should the sales staff known this? Of course not. They were doing their job, selling cars.
Some one should have gone with mom.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Hey, can we work a deal like that on a 911 turbo?
Well, the truth is, it isn't done at this store. We've got a little more invested in the vehicles than $15k. :P
They DID just loan her the car in the hopes that the deal would get financed. As I mentioned before, when this happens, the banks will sometimes feel the need to go ahead and approve the deal even though they wouldn't normally.
-moo
They probably shouldn't have "spot" delivered the vehicle. Just bring the car back and ask to have them tow her trade back to the house.
Wash your hands of the matter and find another route.
-moo
Title is issued in buyers name with or without lien when purchase is made.
Clear title means no salvage, repurchase, flood or other damage making vehicle worth less than actual value. Just because money is owed on a vehicle you still get title in your name and can trade, sell or dispose of a vehicle as soon as debt is paid.
Seriously, mom should pay cash from a private seller after a mechanic inspects the vehicle and Edmunds pricing is near price you're willing to pay. Or she could clean up her credit (maybe 2 years)...then go finance a new or used vehicle.
Tip: Used vehicles don't finance well and over 7 year old vehicles rarely finance at all. That's what makes them bargains for cash buyers. Ding Ding.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I think the something that is missing is that the buyer didn't understand how the financing would work, she probably should have, but didn't. If I understand the system correctly, a dealer will do a spot delivery before the financing is secured to prevent the buyer from getting cold feet. The thinking is that if a customer has to wait a week they may change their mind and blow the deal. In this case it seems Mom took the car too soon because she thought the deal was done. If I had to fault the dealer it would be for not explaining this to her.
During a recent car purchase I would not take delivery until I saw in writing that the financing was approved. I waited two extra days but there was no way I was going to bring the damn thing back.
I feel sorry for the poster and his mom. Next time come to Edmunds first.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think you're right though. Find a cash car that might be reliable. Old Civic, Maxima, something along those lines. Maybe pay $3-4k for something and build up the credit.
-moo
That's exactly right too. Hopefully by putting the vehicle on the road, the banks will finance, the buyer won't back out and the dealer gets a sale. All in all, spot delivery really blows.
-moo
-moo
You're a salesman farmer. You ever try to low jack in a bag of green beans or onions when the customer says they only want pitted persimmons?
:lemon:
-moo
Mack
Take the car back.
Take the car back.
Take the car back.
You said the dealer asked her to bring the car back. Take the car back.
You mother has no legal claim on the car. If the dealership tows their car from her driveway, they might be able to sock her with more charges.
Start over again. Tow her old car back to her driveway. What will that cost, $75? You can then start over at some other car place. Every town is full of these.
-moo
No, I'm proud to say that I never knowingly took advantage of a customer's ignorance or anxiety, although I could have. Trouble is, I used to be a social worker and those pesky professional ethics tend to get in the way.
Your question got me thinking. I have seen customers who would have willingly spent hundreds of dollars for products which would have been totally unsuited to their purpose. In the car biz I think it would take an exceptional salesperson to resist taking advantage of these types. I mean, I'm the owner of my business so I only have to answer to my own morality. In car sales if you let the whale swim away you could find yourself unemployed. I'm glad I don't sell cars.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Not to be nosey... but what exactly do you do oldfarmer? Do you run your own farmers fruit and vegetable market? There's a couple huge "You Pick Em" farms around Louisville. They have the farmers market, you pick fields with pumpkins, apples etc, restaurant, winery, etc. Those things must make buckets of money... at least off me they have. Very nice place to take the family though.
Good idea. You first.
Maybe... but where you coming from? We're not talking about "Roots" here are we? Just the basics no one puts on their car space.
When I was in sales I would have ran away from someone like that if they would have said "please don't do this to me" then want to go ahead with the deal. It could show diminished mental capacity and can nullify any contract. Not worth the possible hassle.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My daughter owns a 04 Hyundai accent with almost 80,000 miles. It has been in several accidents and fixed. (I showed Mack some of the pictures showing the damage) While she was at the Hyundai dealer getting somethings fixed (finally) she looked at the new accent. The salesman asked her the usual questions. She told him about the accent and what she was paying a month ($238.68) It is almost paidoff. The salesman tells her she could be driving a new accent for almost the same payment. She informs him that she has bad credit and hewould have to be a miracle worker. He goes and checks it out and comes back with payments of more almost $200.00 more a month more because of her credit. (DUH) He then tries wouldn't you like to be driving home in a new car. She almost did but decided she would just pay to get her car repaired. I am proud of her. She is now trying to get her credit back on track (460fico score) I am not blaming the salesman-he is doing his job and he did not put a gun to her head.
Yes it does. The question begs...Where were YOU or your brother while all of this took place? Did I miss something?
You were in the car business and you weren't there with her?
You knew her state of mind.
And we have a VERY sloppy dealer to have delivered that car without bank approval!
Sad story...
Side note: Before the wolves pounce, the only deals I have ever had to unwind were the ones that the customers have given bad info on the front end.. I have never had to hook a car that I delivered soley on the basis that I could not secure finances.
If a customer's credit is questionable, we won't roll the car until he have an approval.
Just makes sense.
You are just asking to miss a sale if you tell some one on Friday that you will get back with them on Monday. You have given them two days to find a dealer that will deliver them.
Though I believe through previous discussions your store does not deal with sub prime at all.
-moo
Oops, missed that part. Good for her then. Looks like she got lucky with the credit report.
-moo
Fortunately I have never seen one of these "agreements" and I’m sure most of the posters here haven’t either. Just to become educated about the biz, I acted as though this "agreement" was presented to me for signature. Nowhere did I notice that that there would be a charge for any miles put on the vehicle during this conditional period.
In the case of the poster whose mother is being told to return the car, the poster noted that the car now has at least 500 miles on it. Does that mean, (unless it is written in on this document or any others presented for signature), that the hopeful buyer had free use of the car until it was returned? I’m assuming that there was no damage to the car; only miles were put on it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Thanks joel. Best piece of information to come out here in over a decade. I was starting to think that the dealership owner was one of those evil Sith Lords that Amad1 was talking about. The mom got a new car rental for 4 days... for nothing, not to shabby.
That makes me laugh. :P
I'll tell you what's not legal, the way she pays bills. She's got bad credit. She hasn't been paying her debts on time.
You were in the business? I'm a little surprised to hear this. You, of all people, should know how this works.
So, if I understand you correctly, the bank IS willing to lend her money now?
-moo
You keep saying that... like you were totally powerless in the transaction. Unless you and your mom were put under some hypnotic voodoo spell, you should take responsibility. You put yourselves in that new car.
Perhaps the dealership could have been a bit blunt and told you they couldn't get you financed at a "used car" rate. The body language was loud and clear though.
If she was as distraught and mentally unstable as you say, and you were in the biz, and you saw an opportunity to take the car back and be clean of the situation, but she is still in the car I would say you have no room to complain and need to sign what ever the deal is.
I know a lot of money can be made doing this but I'm glad we don't get involved in these.
A 520 beacon wouldn't have a chance!
You may have sold cars but it could not have been for more then a month because this dealership is playing you and your mom like a 6 string banjo.
If I was you and your mom was truly as distraught and mentally unstable I would bring the car back yesterday. Some one in her condition could have a wreck and then be stuck with a wrecked car she can't afford.
You are wasting your time, we are dealing with a professional victim here...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I should take the time to do a proper profile is what I SHOULD do. Briefly, I grow nursery and vegetable crops which I retail at farmers' markets. Small-time by most standards but it keeps me busy for about 60 hours a week. No buckets of money but on a good day you can get a pail full.
In the winter I drive a school bus.
All in all I make about 1/3 the money I used to but I sleep better at night for a number of reasons.
To keep on topic, I bought my 1985 Ford F-150 from a private party who lied about everything he possibly could.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible