My Salesperson Misled Me

michaellno

Also, magnets are another way to check if a car has been repaired. Body filler is not magnetic

True, but how would you do it on my Saturn L300? Check the hood, trunklid or roof? All the vertical panels are composite.

tedebear

True, but how would you do it on my Saturn L300?

The magnet check is just an old trick they use. I guess if the magnet sticks to one part of a door and doesn't on another part on the same door surface then something is up.

ajek4423

ajek4423

I just recently purchased a car and was told by the salesperson it was a Demo car driven by him and his daughter. He quoted me the interest rate based on a used vehicle. I questioned this because I didn't think a demo car was considered a used car. He said that I couldn't get the new car interest rate because the demo car is considered to be a used vehicle. I took his word for it. About a week later a friend asked me about the different color of the drivers door. I never noticed this. In the sun light you can not see the difference but on an overcast day it is very obvious. I then questioned the salesperson about this and he said there is nothing he can do about the paint job. He really didn't want to talk to me and continued to look busy in his office. I asked if the car had been in an accident and he said no.
I ran a carfax and found out that this car was owned by a rental agency in Georgia for 7 months, then sold at an auction in Texas and titled in Louisiana to someone for 3 months and I am actually the third owner of this vehicle.
I went back to the dealer to question him and he was not a happy camper. He said that he told me I was buying a progamed car. (BIG LIE) He then went on to explain what a program car is. I then told him that he mislead me because he said the vehicle was a demo car. At this point he folded his arms took off his glasses and said he has nothing more to say because I was trying to get him to say that he led me to believe that I was buying a New Vehicle. I guess he expected me to leave but I just sat there and looked at him.
He then changed his tune a little and said that he would work with me on the paint job. The pain job is not the point. I am a single mom with 4 children and I would have never purchased this car had I known it came from a rental agency. I am checking into my rights as a consumer. I asked him to show me the MSO and he said he didn't know what that was. Later during the conversation he was well aware of the MSO and said that he would run a car fax for me. I didn't let him know that I already have one. I am interested in finding out who the car was titled to before me. I would doubt that the dealership would title the car in their name if they were going to put it on the lot to resale.
To me this is fraud. I was not alone when the salesman was telling me about the car so I do have a witness. Not sure if this will help. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am probably screwed and will have to suck this up as another one of life's lesson but I am no way finished with this man.

mikefm58

$2100??? Yeah, I agree with Mack, you paid too much. Heck I bought a similar one a few months ago as well, and only paid $1800..... . Sorry Isell, I couldn't resist. :shades:

mikefm58

Disclosure laws differ from state to state. Normally what the salesman said means nothing but since you had a witness with you, that may help your case. Check your state laws for disclosure and also go back and reread every bit of the fine print in your invoice as well as all other paper work. You did do that in the business office when you bought the vehicle, didn't you? The fact that he said it was a demo is an outright lie, so that's your best evidence against him. In my state, a demo is still considered new as far as the warranty goes.

Don't go back and talk to the salesman, talk to his boss. Make sure you know what you expect out of them, compensation or even unwind the deal all together. But my suspicions are that you bought from slime balls and will have an uphill battle.

isellhondas

OK, pure and simple, you were lied to. Shame on them.

But, had it not been for someone pointing out to you something you had not seen for yourself, it sounds like you were perfectly happy with your new car.

It was a rental? Is that so bad? I have owned two ex-rentals and they were great cars.

You can get all worked up, and spend a lot of time trying to get them to take the car back, or you can move on with life.

You just need to do what you think you need to do here.

oldfarmer50

"...magnets are another way to check..."

I was aware of that method. Of course more and more you find plastic parts on cars so that's why I'd like a paint meter too.

oldfarmer50

"...Any advice..."

Not sure what state you're in but here in NY they have to tell you if the used car was a rental or taxi. The term "program" car can mean anything from being a demo to being in a demo derby,

Sounds like the salesman lied outright. "My daughter and I drove it" must be the new version of "A little old lady drove it only to church".

qbrozen

This was a new car dealer? I guess I expect this kind of thing at a used car dealer, but not a new car dealer. Maybe I'm naive in that respect.

In any case, I would say "lesson learned." NEVER but a vehicle (unless new) without a carfax report. Is carfax the bible? No. But its just one more check. I don't get one so much for myself as I do the person I'll eventually sell my car to.

volvomax

Technically, the salesperson covered his [non-permissible content removed] by telling you it was a used car.
I'd bet your paperwork says the same thing.
Disclosure laws vary from state to state. Most states don't require that the history of a used car is disclosed to the buyer.

There was no reason for the salesperson to lie to you. He should have simply told you that the car was a rental and let you make the decision based on that information.
As isell said, there is nothing inherently wrong with buying a rental car.
It's a good way to save money on a car purchase.
If the paintwork is restricted to the door, chances are whatever damage the car suffered was slight.
I don't think you have any recourse to unwind the car deal, esp if your paperwork indicates a used car.
However, I would speak to the General Manager and see if they will correct the paint work.
Also, you may want to talk to the Better Business Bureau and the Attorney General's office as well.
See if anyone else has registered a similar complaint.

isellhondas

Good advise.

I'm not sure if I would want another repaint on that door if it's that unnoticable in the first place.

What an outright liar that salesperson was!

ajek4423

Have you ever heard of a salesperson demo-ing a program car? That's the latest bit if bs he told me.
When he was informing me about the car --He said he had a demo that he has to run for 6 months before he can sell it.(dealership rules) His time was up in a couple of weeks and he would have the car on the lot ( because his daughter was using it at the present time) and I could check it out then. The car fax shows that a title was issued and new owner recorded on December 28 2007. I have a gut feeling he did a quick in and out deal with the dealership. Why would the dealership title the vehicle in their name if they were purchasing the car to re-sell.
I never should have taken the man's word. I learned my lesson. But like I said this is not over. This is wrong. He lied and now is trying to cover his tracks.

qbrozen

He said he had a demo that he has to run for 6 months before he can sell it.

Ah. Now I see his line of reasoning.

So ... we all demo cars, in that case. My wife just demo'd a car for 3 years, and I demo'd one for 2 years.

oldfarmer50

"...he should have simply told you that the car was a rental and let you make the decision..."

With all due respect to Isell's position that rentals are just as good as private party cars, that salesman knew that if he told the truth the buyer would have the PERCEPTION of lesser value and would have rejected the deal or asked for a lower price. He was dishonest.

"...If the paint work is restricted to the door..."

In 1987 I purchased a Chevy lease return. A while later I noticed that the door had been repainted. I didn't make a fuss but maybe I should have. Years later, the paint started peeling off the door and a large round rusty spot about 8" across formed. Made it hard to sell when I was done with it.

Now I check for repaints. I would either reject such a car or ask for a substantial discount.

fordfool

I've had good luck purchasing ex-rentals. At least I know why the car was sold and its service history.

New York State requires that a vehicle be listed as New, Used or Demo Model on the Bill of Sale.

The State also requires a Prior Use Certificate on which a used vehicle may be marked as a Rental or Police or Taxi or Driver Ed. or Demo Model or Canadian.

There are four pieces of information that I ask to see before purchasing a used car: (1) a copy of the Monroney sticker (tells me what options the car has and its MSRP), (2) a copy of the mileage certificate (tells me who the previous owner was), (3) a copy of the manufacturers work history on the car, and (4) a Carfax report.

Your state's department of motor vehicles should be able to tell you what information must be disclosed to you prior to the sale of a used vehicle.

volvomax

Sounds like our Service Loaner program.
Car is in service for 6 months,titled to the dealership.
Then we sell it.
BTW, when a dealership buys a used car, that car is titled in the dealer name(usually).

volvomax

Made it hard to sell when I was done with it.

Selling any kind of used Chevy is hard :P
Seen plenty of original paint jobs on those go bad.

mackabee

Exactly! a three year lease is actually a three year demo.

mackabee

Our store has a TRAC department. Also known as Toyota Rent a Car They get a good number of new cars, at least one of every model we sell except Landcruiser. The new one is a dog and even our GM doesn't want one on the lot. But that's another story. We take the rentals after 3-6 months of service then run them thru the shop and certify them. If you guys are familiar with the CPO warranty from Toyota it's even better than the new car warranty. I have no problem telling a customer the car is a rental and then I go into my certified spill. They usually end up buying the CPO car.

Mack

bolivar

In what state did you purchase the car?

Some people on here might know the state disclosure laws if they knew the state.

As other people asked, on the paperwork you received, is the car named as New or Used? Was it sold As Is? If it is still under warranty, bad paint might be covered. I think some paint is covered for 1 year/12,000 miles.

houdini1

Mack, I am very interested in the new LC so I would love to hear your "rest of the story" here. With that big engine, how can it be a dog? Your thoughts would be very valuable to me. Thanks.

jipster

A common question we get from customers that are looking at used cars is "Has it ever been in an accident?"

Our answer is always..." Probably".

That doesn't seem to be a good idea if you are trying to sell a car. Most people, if told a car they were interested in was "probably" in an accident, would look for a car at another dealership.

"Probably" is telling me the dealership was either too lazy to thoroughly inspect the vehicle... or that it was indeed in an accident. So, IMO "probably" is never a good word to use when trying to sell something as it implies indifference.

mackabee

The power train is a beauty. it's the rest of the vehicle that doesn't live up to Toyota quality expectations. The door panels, dashboard, look very cheap. The running boards are the same ones that are used in the 4runner. They are all black composite material, probably very durable but they just don't look good on a 68k vehicle. There's no body side moldings or wheel well over fenders. It also looks like a big Highlander IMHO. The last 07 we had sat on the lot for eons. You would be better served to look at a Platinum Sequoia. If you go to the Lexus USA website and do a comparison between it and the Lexus LX570 you'll see a bunch of the same equipment on both.
Mack :shades:

isellhondas

No, "probably" means just that.

Most cars that are a few years old have had "some" kind of a mishap.

A bumper scrape or a dent somewhere?

This has nothing to do with being "lazy" as you put it. A lot of body work, if properly done can't be detected.

"An accident" can be anything.

Our CRV has a small dent where someone hit it. It is probably two inches across and it amounts to nothing. It is in a spot that is hard to get to and I have a 1000.00 estimate from a body shop. We have a 250.00 deductable. I keep ignoring it but it bugs me too.

If fixed and turned into State Farm, it will no doubt trigger "an accident" on a Car Fax.

So, has our CRV been in "an accident"...Yes, it has!

Most customers appreciate our honesty and the fact that we disclose everything we know.

mackabee

Craig, don't you guys use Dent Doctor or Dent Wizard to repair small dents on inventory? We use them both and I have had them take out some small dents off my son's Prelude. One of the guys did it for free.!
Mack

isellhondas

Yes, we do and these guys do a great job.

I had them look at the CRV and it's in the worst possible place on the LS rear quarter panel. They can't get to it.

volvomax

"Probably" is telling me the dealership was either too lazy to thoroughly inspect the vehicle... or that it was indeed in an accident. So, IMO "probably" is never a good word to use when trying to sell something as it implies indifference.

My attitude is "They've all been hit"
It's just a question of how much
It is very hard nowadays to have a 100% original car.

jipster

"An accident" can be anything.

True. I'm just saying if a salesperson told me a car had "probably" been in an accident... I'm picturing the car smashing into another vehicle. Not someone parked next to it opening their door and putting a small dent or scratch in it. I think most people don't consider small little scratches and dents to be "accidents".

I would think saying, "To the best of our knowledge, and upon inspection, this vehicle does not appear to have been in an accident, but it is almost impossible to say and be 100% sure,"... would be more comforting to a consumer than, "It probably has been in an accident."

jipster

It is very hard nowadays to have a 100% original car

At least paint wise. We had our Mazda MPV minivan only about a month before I had to buy some touch-up paint, to get a couple spots on the front hood, where pebbles had been thrown up on the highway. Now, I wouldn't say the van was in an "accident". But, I guess one would have to say it had been damaged... or blemished.

mackabee

Yes they do.

Same with my wife's 97 Camry. It has a large crease on the rear quarter panel but they told me it was hard to get to due to the gas tank being so close.
Mack :shades:

isellhondas

After saying "probably", I do say something along those lines.

I'll also say, "There are 435 body shops in the greater Seattle area and they are usually pretty busy"

mackabee

That's a lot of body shops. What's insurance cost there?
Mack

volvomax

At least paint wise. We had our Mazda MPV minivan only about a month before I had to buy some touch-up paint, to get a couple spots on the front hood, where pebbles had been thrown up on the highway. Now, I wouldn't say the van was in an "accident". But, I guess one would have to say it had been damaged... or blemished.

Which brings us back to the original poster.
Remember, she has a door where the paint doesn't match.
In the case of your van,too many chips and you would be tempted to repaint the hood. Then it would look like your car had been in an accident.

mackabee

I believe she said the paint matched but when the light hit it at a certain angle you could see the slight difference. I have a 95 that the driver's side had some damage to it and the rear door and rear quarter panel were repainted. If you look real hard you can see a slight difference in the shade. The only way you can really tell is that they didn't put a new pinstripe on the door and rear quarter panel.

chikoo

The only way you can really tell is that they didn't put a new pinstripe on the door and rear quarter panel.

Who did this awesome act?

mattandi

The only way you can really tell is that they didn't put a new pinstripe on the door and rear quarter panel

Just a subtle difference. :sick:

jmonroe

The only way you can really tell is that they didn't put a new pinstripe on the door and rear quarter panel.

From what you said the repair was very good so I could never accept that $7.50 pinstripeing was not replaced.

No excuse for this type of neglect regardless of who does the work.

jmonroe

jmonroe

About 2 months after Mrs. jmonroe got her 06’ Sonata she bumped the right side mirror on the side of the garage while backing out. It was a small crack in the mirror housing and I repaired it myself and used the touch up paint stick I got from the dealer. The job wasn’t perfect but it was pretty darn good if I have to say so myself. About a month after that she banged into the side of the garage again. This time she shattered the housing and broke the mirror itself. There is no way to repair her handy work this time. :mad: I used clear packaging tape to hold the broken mirror from falling out and to hold the housing together. I can’t believe its lasted this long with the original tape job. :surprise:

She is wondering when I’m going to have it replaced and I told her that we should leave it like it is until she is finished practicing backing out of the garage. I’m only going to replace it once so when she feels she’s got it down pat I told her to let me know.

I got an estimate about a year ago from the dealer. It’s going to cost about $260. I plan to take this out of her allowance and not turn it into the insurance company. I have to think that since I’ll be footing the bill, this will not show up on a Carfax report as an accident. I’m right ain’t I?

jmonroe

mattandi

My wife had a '94 Civic when we met. It was rear-ended twice. New bumper cover and new rear hatch. She ran into a lady head on, slow. New front bumper. She forgot to set the parking brake or put it in gear one day while in a bit of a hurry. It started rolling immediately after she got out. It rolled down the driveway zig-zagging between the house and the fence. (She said she tried to hold onto the back bumper, but alas) Both doors and front quarters repaired and both mirrors replaced and another front bumper. My sister parked it beside her boat. Cleaning out the boat, she threw a ski on top of the car. A heavy, wooden ski. It bounced down the front. Top and hood repaired, windshield and bumper replaced.

A paint meter would have started smoking on this car. :sick: I never checked the Carfax, but I imagine it read like a rap sheet. Gave all the repair records to the new owner when we sold it.

tedebear

I have to think that since I’ll be footing the bill, this will not show up on a Carfax report as an accident. I’m right ain’t I?

You're probably right but you've now posted it on a forum that the entire world has access to.

What was that VIN again?

tedebear

Of course more and more you find plastic parts on cars so that's why I'd like a paint meter too.

I talked to the paint meter guy at work today. He says the meter will not work on non-metal surfaces. The way it works is it checks the resistance between the metal and the tip of the probe and displays the thickness of the paint from that measurement.

He also said the meter he uses is around $1,500 and probably not practical for the occasional car buyer.

He also said the way he uses the magnet check is to put a piece of paper against the body and then a magnet against that. The magnet will stick to the body through the paper and then you just slide the paper around the surface without worrying about scratching it. If the magnet falls off that's where they've used body filler.

jipster

Aren't you the one who keeps their vehicles till the wheels fall off and the body disintegrates into a pile of rust? If so then I wouldn't worry about it, not to many people run Carfax reports on 10 year old Hyundais. Don't think it would matter anyhow as it is just a mirror... as opposed to body or frame damage.

madmanmoo

You have to file a police report for that to be on the CarFax. That accident will not show up on the CarFax.

-moo

mackabee

There's a little story behind this 95 Camry. I originally sold it to a Navy buddy of mine in 1997 as a CPO vehicle. Forward to 2008, he retired from the Navy and uprooted his whole family to the Philippine islands. His wife is from there. He couldn't take the car with him so I asked what he wanted for it. He told me a ticket to the PI would be fine. I asked how much a ticket was and he said "1200 bucks" So we made a deal. I had to put new struts all the way around which set me back $600.00 and I took the stock cassette player and put a Sony Xplod WITH Bluetooth in at the tune of $130.00 bucks. So all told I have a pretty nice 95 Camry LE that just went over 171k miles, been serviced at the dealer all its life and I have the service records and I spent just over $2100.00. I figure I'll drive it another year or so then sell it. The pin stripe is no big deal. I consider it a character line.
It looks like they were painted on so I might just get our lot boy to put some stripes over the old remnants or I might just try to remove the old one.
Mack

mackabee

Just buy the mirror housing and mirror and replace it yourself. It's cheaper than $260.00 or buy a house with a bigger garage or send her back to driving school.
Mack

mackabee

In ten years the new mirror will be worth more than the car. !

jmonroe

Aren't you the one who keeps their vehicles till the wheels fall off and the body disintegrates into a pile of rust? If so then I wouldn't worry about it, not to many people run Carfax reports on 10 year old Hyundais

I am only concerned because the wheels don’t fall off Hyundais nor do they rust out. Soooo, when I dump sell this thing I don’t want someone to think it’s been whacked. :mad:

Furthermore, from what I’m hearing, people run Carfax’s on everything and that includes Mazda MPV’s and Buick’s. :P

jmonroe

snakeweasel

Car repair facilities also report to carfax, along with others.

jmonroe

Just buy the mirror housing and mirror and replace it yourself. It's cheaper than $260.00…

I was thinking about doing this but since it’s going to come out of her ‘house decorating fund’, why should I do the work? :confuse:

…buy a house with a bigger garage…

Herein lies the problem at least according to Son #1. When we moved to S.C. in 92’ we built a house and because I made the garage oversized so I would have a place to play, I had the builder install a 20 foot garage door. She couldn’t miss the opening with that door but now that we moved back to the Burgh she has to finagle the car through a standard 16 foot door. Like I said she’s learning but the right side mirror has been sacrificed.

…or send her back to driving school.

I wouldn’t put anyone through that again.

jmonroe