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With the BO mandating outrageously high mileage to satisfy his bud in CA, Arnold somebody, I saw a news article that the cars will cost
$600$1300 more just to meet additional requirements. --puff piece about auto controls--probably $1300 will be low by factor of X2I'm not sure why CA should mandate their own mileage and pollution expectations.. isn't that something else the BO Fed should take over?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The 307 is most definately durable. Slow, but TOUGH! 157K+ miles later and it's still running well. My friend has a 1988 Brougham and his car has 283K miles on it and it's still running well.
I have pointed out failures of both Toyota and the Honda I had. I think the point is irrelevant at this juncture in time. Obama is taking over a big chunk of the auto industry. When you have a failure it will be the Federal Government you have to deal with. Need I say more?
The point is that people are very good at reciting the problems in GM in this discussion. When it was originally started or renamed, it was to be a more positive discussion. I have made the point that PR has affected GM and its prospects after it wasn't true about the current cars. That viral PR negativity may even have helped tip the sales bucket to the lower point that helped put GM into virtual bankruptcy. So it's only fair to recite others' engineering and sales failures.
It's not a case of blaming someone else other than GM with its parts for problems, so other posters can save the twisting the statement again. UAW, upper management, bean counters, engineering saving money, suppliers saving money to meet lower bids and retain high profits for themselves, dealers not being customer service focused, et al, all cause problems later that customers remember and use against the brand to not purchase again.
As for the Fed serving as the warranty station, I'm sure it will all work out just fine. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Face it the powers in control will not be happy till we are back in the caves riding a bike to a sweat shop making work cloths. Or on a huge treadmill providing electricity for the elites in Washington DC.
That's the goal!
And we'll be given misused statistics about how the people love the elected leader without showing the negative statistics of those who dislike the leader and policies.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Here's some interesting trivia, regarding fuel economy.
In 1979, the 425 V-8 got an EPA combined rating of 14 mpg with the 4-bbl carb. Oddly, with fuel injection it only got 12! When they went to the smaller 368-4bbl, the combined rating was 15. A whopping 1 mpg improvement, although for the govt's CAFE purposes, every MPG helped! FWIW, the Diesel 350 scored around 21 mpg combined.
The V-8-6-4 scored 15 as well...the same as the regular 368 with a 4-bbl carb! So much for the fuel economy improvement. :confuse:
When that little 249 came out for 1982, it scored 17 combined. Somehow they got it up to 21 combined by the time the 1985 Brougham came out. The 1986, first year of the 307 in these cars, was even better at 24 combined.
Now these are the raw, unadjusted numbers. This is what the EPA put on their window stickers up through 1984, but in 1985 they started using lower, supposedly more realistic numbers. Adjusted, the 1985 249 scored 18 combined, while the 1986 307 scored 20 combined.
I wonder if the EPA's raw estimates started getting more lax and unrealistic in later years? For instance, I could imagine someone driving around in a 1978 Deville and in a mix of city and highway driving, manage to get 14 mpg without too much trouble. However, with a 1986 and a 307, I'm sure you'd have to drive like an old lady to get 24 mpg combined! But I could see 20 without too much trouble.
The raw numbers are what they use to factor in CAFE figures and fines and such. So I wonder if, in later years, they just started fudging those numbers a bit, to make it easier for the auto makers to pass?
Bobby Rahal hooked up with Letterman, for some reason?, and formed "Rahal/Letterman" Racing Team. Think they sponsored Buddy Rice one year who won Indy 500. Not aware that Letterman did any kind of racing in his past, but maybe he did.
More logical hookup with a celebrity was Newman/Haas for maybe 20+ years in Indy type cars. Paul Newman drove race cars many years.
No car company is perfect, but GM is worse, for the very reason you specified: "upper management." I know I cut out the rest of what you said but that's because it's redundant. Upper management approved the UAW contracts. Upper management told the engineering/design staff to skimp and count beans. Upper management decided it was OK to have a Chevy dealer across the street from a Pontiac dealer. Upper management made a whole lot of decisions that helped GM to fail. The buck always stops there: they are ultimately responsible (them and the board) for everything that goes on in the company.
GM's not the only car company with problems. GM's big problem is that their upper management has a history of exacerbating them. That's the big difference.
Just for comparison, the raw numbers for my 2000 Intrepid are 22.4 city, 37.1 highway (dunno what year they started taking it out to the decimal) and a combined rating of 27.2606. I have no idea how you'd have to drive the car to get that kind of mpg! The window sticker reads 20 city/29 highway, with a combined of 23. And that's about what I get with it. Best I ever got was around 32 mpg, driving up for the Carlisle Ford Nationals last year. I was running slow, 55-60, and not using the a/c. You can bet I was running the a/c on the way home that night though...it was hotter than hades that day!
I often wonder how many "true" Americans, loyal to the Detroit 3 brands their entire lives, are aware that the Fords, GMs or Chrysler products that they bought were made in Mexico or Canada. How many American brand Chevy Aveo buyers know the car is from Korea?
But, what if she has no problem with the globalist elitists?
Africa? Hell no I don;t wanna get stuck in the middle of intertribal mess, which happens in rpetty much every country in Africa.
EVERY car has a history of problems, however D3 are the only ones most reluctant to fix it. That's fact and noone can deny that.
Btw, excellent post, igozoomzoom.
Just make sure you don't irritate the locals in South America, or they might just put a pregnant earwig in your ear while you're sleeping! :surprise: Okay, no more Rod Serling stories for me! :P
Exactly right. The market will ultimately prevail. Government interference may delay the inevitable, but ultimately, the people have voted and will get what they want.
So where will you escape when the globalists finally dumb down what remains of the first world?
You make an excellent point. I would say however though, that what Honda and Toyota have going for them is isolated failures here and there (albeit a reluctance to acknowledge them), whereas GM has had a HISTORY of failures consistently across the board. IOW, it's possible to get a GREAT GM car once in a while, but most likely, you do not, you get a tolerable GM car. It's far more likely you'll get a great Toyota, and possible you'll get a bad one.
To me, this is the difference, and I have a Domestic to Import ratio of 3 to 1 in my garage. My Fords have been great, my Toyota has been perfect......
I'll deny it. From my observation, the Japanese are far more reticent to acknowledge they have a problem - once they finally do, they will generally fix it fairly quickly, but they stay in denial for a long time first.
The Domestics will acknowlege a problem much quicker, but often just deny any responsbility for it beyond the warranty period. That's how I see it anyway.
If Toyota's all that, why is my co-worker paying $300 for front brake pads on a 2006 Corolla? Heck, I pay less than half that for the same job on a Buick.
The PR machine is in full force. The show is tonight I guess.
Lutz Taking the Chevrolet Volt to Letterman (Straightline)
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That's precisely why they let WWII drag on until the US had to shock them into surrendering with two A-bomb attacks. Sad that some of them are still stubborn.
If it were up to the car manufacturers, we would be driving pickups and SUVs.....and $4.00/gallon gas would be normal.
The technology is here for the auto manufacturers to accomplish the new standards without sacrificing our comfort. Compared to the aerospace industry, automobiles have made very little gains in the past 100 years with regard to fuel economy. think about it? We are happy when a car can achieve 30 mpg. That's ridiculous in the 21st century. Aren't we suppose to have flying cars by now????
I find it funny that we as American citizens supposedly have the freedom to choose what items we buy as long as we can afford it but it is somehow un-American to not buy a domestic-made car even if there is another car that suits your needs and wants better.
I love how people pick and choose what it means to be an American. I do have to put my flags out for the Memorial Day weekend and upcoming Flag Day.
You keep bringing this up. All makes have problems. The difference is the 30 years of repeated, massive GM problems affecting huge numbers of people. Toyota and Honda do not have any comparably significant problems with the diversity, quantity of owners, and affect on vehicles as the D3. I don't recall of 260 Accords catching fire like the Fiero. I haven't seen rust holes all over the windows of Civics after one year like we did the Vega. Camry's haven't had their transmissions fail at 50K AND have their head gaskets blow in the same car at 50K like the Windstar.
There is no comparison in the number, history, and diversity of problems with GM and other D3 vehicles to Toyota or Honda. That's not to say there haven't been some problems with Hondas and Toyotas, just like all makes. If the criticisms to GM are unwarranted and unfair relative to Toy/Hon then the claim is that the consumer is ill informed or just stupid to believe the reputation that this company has earned.
So a worker is only good if their lifestyle is like yours?
If the company owner thinks he's all that, let him build the cars himself under the same pay and conditions he provided his workers. The fat, tender-handed pig would probably drop dead in 1/2 hour.
It's pretty bad when Vega and Fiero is what they have to go back to for examples, isn't it?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I can tell you that my used 1966 bug here in SoCal had no rust in 1977. My friend's Vega bought brand new in 1974 and also here in SoCal had HOLES at the base of the front and rear windows, from rust. This is not a snowy climate with salt on the ground. I can understand it in Philly, but not in SoCal. The Vega problems were not snow/salt related, they were shoddy design and materials. Among other things. And that's only the beginning of 30 years of GM failures and missteps. If it were an isolated vehicle problem it wouldn't have been a big deal. Just add it to:
Citation
Cimarron
V8-6-4
Diesels
Quad4
Dexcool
Fiero
I'm sure there are others.
Reputations are built on history. You can always say the last 3 years vehicles are the best, but there is not much track record. GM had a lot of junk in the '90's as well. I'm sure the current cars are outstanding, we just won't know for a few years yet, will we?
Cimarron: Agree. This abomination did long-term damage to Cadillac's reputation. A Cadillac dealer told me he wouldn't even waste my time showing me that P.O.C.!
V-8-6-4: Great idea, bad timing. The technology simply didn't exist over 25 years ago for a reliable DOD engine. You can tell a V-8-6-4 engine by the ridiculously tall valve covers housing those big prehistoric solenoids. It's kind of like trying to build a modern PC using vacuum tubes instead of microcircuits.
Diesels: Weak bottom end. Trying to do things on the cheap converting a gasoline engine to diesel. Slow and sounded like a city bus.
Quad4: Not bad, just crude.
Dexcool: I've heard stories, but never experienced any problems. I heard the problems occur when the unfamiliar put the green stuff in an engine meant for this orange stuff. The green stuff eats the aluminum block blocking the water passages with a thick metallic porridge resulting in engine failure. Don't know what the whole point of DexCool was in the first place. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Fiero: Actually, I heard later versions of the Fiero were pretty sweet little rides. The 1988 model was best.
The multiple metals in the motors needed a coolant formulated to protect all the metals so their voltages they generate didn't start eating into them. The unfamiliar put in old green coolant which turns dexcool to a gel giving the expected problems. The owners manual and the coolant tank are clearly marked to use DexCool only. Also DexCool was made by Prestone or Texaco--not GM. One of the chemicals chosen for the original formula deteriorated in the presence of air when circulating hot or when not driven long enough distances to heat the whole system over 140 deg. F. due to bacteria. The forumula was changed after problems surfaced. Ford used DexCool and someone can verify that other brands also used DexCool. Interestingly, I read that Honda's spec coolant has 3 of the 4 chemicals of DexCool, so it must be okay since Honda uses it, right?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My Intrepid uses some pinkish-orange stuff, but I don't know if it's the same thing as Dexcool or not. I never had any troubles with it, but I also changed it a bit prematurely. First change was around 86,000 miles, just shy of 4 years. Second change was around 130,000 miles, at around 7.5 years. That was when I first changed the hoses, too. The mechanic said my hoses were probably fine, but I didn't want to take a chance!
Halvoline I believe. And you can clearly mark it all you like, but 95% of people don't put their own coolant in: the oil-change place does it.
GM has blamed DexCool issues on air, faulty lids, and drivers not doing maintenance on their "maintenance free" coolant systems. This is yet another example of why GM is in a hole.
Interestingly, I read that Honda's spec coolant has 3 of the 4 chemicals of DexCool, so it must be okay since Honda uses it, right?
Is Honda having any problems? Did they get a class-action lawsuit aimed at them? No? So it must be OK. The problem must not be the coolant, but how GM handled it. Or didn't, as the case may be.
Which is the whole point. GM would be fine if they weren't run by a bunch of boneheaded idiots.
GM specified which coolant to use, correct?
Interestingly, I read that Honda's spec coolant has 3 of the 4 chemicals of DexCool, so it must be okay since Honda uses it, right?
Don't know. Has Honda had the same types of problems that GM did?
No, the point is they finally will fail completely and for the last time so we don't have to worry about the horrendous mistakes of the past.
I do not get any satisfaction by writing about the low quality of their past cars and the obvious disaster management and business model. It's all just fact.
If the opposite were true, Honda would be going bankrupt, not GM.
Regards,
OW