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Not at all. It was an interference design engine. Belt didn't jump, nothing was overheating, no idiot lights, nada. Alternator froze, stopped turning. Literally. Belt stopped moving. Engine tried to move, couldn't, pistons hit valves.
Whether the belt was adjusted wrong may be a different story, though it was adjusted to GM's specs. Whether the system was wrongly designed and stopped the engine before breaking or jumping the belt is another story. But no matter what way you cut it, that's a GM issue.
In my case, it didn't tear the belt, either. However, there was smoke coming out from under the hood and the smell of burnt rubber, as I nursed the car into the driveway. I was lucky that it happened about a half-mile from home. And when it happened, I didn't know what it was until I had the car home and turned off, and was looking under the hood. My initial thought when it happened was that one of the belts had snapped. If I'd known it was the compressor, I would've just turned the damned defogger off!
Thought that relationship of valves to pistons is determined by camshaft(s) and that these are driven by chains or a belt that is exclusive to the cam function. Belt(s) for accessories such as alternator, compressor, power steering is exterior to engine block and not connected to camshaft.
Yeah, that's how the relationship is supposed to work. However, I wonder if it's possible that one of the pulleys seizing up could stop the crankshaft quickly enough, or at least slow it down fast enough, that it might briefly throw the pistons and valves out of sync? Or enough to make the belt or chain jump a groove or two?
Toyota workers do not live the opulent lifestyle of many of the UAW workers in the USA.
Disturbing if true...Well, someone's got to build all those green Priuses right?
Today the National Labor Committee (NLC) is releasing a 65-page report, “The Toyota You Don’t Know” documenting serious human rights violations by the Toyota Motor Company, which will disturb most Americans.
“Celebrities like Julia Roberts, Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Pit, Bill Maher and others have led the way in turning Toyota’s Prius into a symbol of concern for our environment,” said Charles Kernaghan, director of the NLC, “We hope that these same celebrities will now also challenge Toyota to improve its respect for human and worker rights. As a start, Toyota should cut its ties to the Burmese dictators and end the exploitation of foreign guest workers trafficked to Japan.”
http://ucarmagazine.com/2008/06/toyota-linked-to-human-trafficking-and-sweatshop- -abuses/
http://piggington.com/ot_the_darker_side_of_toyota_human_trafficing
Sorry you had trouble. An alternator doesn't freeze up suddenly; it gives noises and symptoms.
The belts usually jump when an accessory stops. Yours apparently didn't. The motor was operating as designed, as the Toyota and Honda people are told about the VCM and the shift lag problems.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'd think if it's gear driven, it would actually be less likely to fall out of sync, whereas with a belt you could jolt the thing enough where the wheels could freespin enough to throw it out of whack....and then the pistons and valves go "whack" ugh.
What year and car and motor was this?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Had a 71 Firebird 400 and in approx 1975, the timing chain slipped on the timing gear and engine stopped abrubtly. I was on an expressway at the time.
After tow job to my house, BIL figured out that it was timing chain/gear. I took it apart and found that gear teeth were plastic and they stripped. Fortunately, engine was not interference.
Went to Pontiac dealer and parts guy said Pontiac had previously used all metal gears and teeth but went to plastic teeth. I bought an all metal OEM GM gear with metal teeth and then installed it. Putting the gear in and the chain required very precise alignment with marks as I recall. Engine fired right back up after reassembly of parts, radiator, etc.
The parts guy said that my 68 Firebird 400, that I also owned at the time, had the all-metal gear and did not have to worry about that engine.
So, GM/Pontiac engineering made an incredibly stupid decison to put timing gears with plastic teeth into engines. Wonder how long that went on after 71 model year.
Hmm, that's interesting. I'd just always presumed that all of those old domestic pushrod V-8's were interference. I guess that's good to know they're not though, so if my '67 Catalina's 400 or '76 LeMans's 350 decides to mess up its chain, I'm basically just stranded, but not left with a totally shot engine.
Here's the thing IMO, those 2 companies have disappointed customers recently, while GM has been disappointing customers for decades. At one point, should Hon-toy keep losing ground like this there will be the day when they say no more Hon-Toy for me. It's very possible, and Hyundai is lurking in the shadows ready to snap their necks.
Also, this is where the bigger problem starts. Unlike in US, Hon-Toy abroad still maintain their quality. I was skeptical at first but after living a whole month with a Thailand built Camry I can tell you all that Camrys here are far nicer than the ones built in America. Why? Well, who knows.... (hint, hint) :P
Noone seems to complain about the Union workers in Japan making those cars being paid good wages.
The reasons are simple, bud:
1. Because they're NOT ASKING FOR OUR MONEY.
2. Because doing so doesn't bloat the price we have to pay for their products.
3. Because when we complain about their products, they try to fix it instead of blaming it on everybody else but themselves.
Imagine those 3 points when we're talking UAW.
It doesn't matter how wealthy or successful I become. All my money is just so much worthless paper with nothing worth buying. The Russians and Chinese can launch a full-scale nuclear attack on Philadelphia and will simply park my 1989 Cadillac Brougham on the City Hall apron, light up a Macanudo Portofino, and watch that Russkie warhead fall right on me! The world can burn to cinders and the ashes flung into the void for all I care! I don't want to live in an America that's a violent, crime-infested, impoverished, humiliated, deindustrialized, demoralized, foreign-owned and occupied third-world toilet with a serf-and-elite society. Take a good look at Detroit, fellas. That's going to soon be ALL of America!
The issue is not whether those Honda problems exist. The issue is whether there are a lot of those problems, and whether they are resolved well by the dealer. Every manufacturer has problems and it is easy to find anecdotal evidence from any make. If enough people get PO'd at Honda then Honda's market share and reputation will suffer, just like GM's did. On the other hand, if there are a lot fewer problems with Honda than GM and C vehicles, then GM and C are sunk and Honda still does well.
Come on now...
I don't know if working for some parasitic exploitative multinational in a third world heckhole will be especially safe in the new world order :P
Lemko can be explained with two axioms:
a) GM cars aren't that bad these days, really...maybe not the best, but not awful.
b) Lemko's expectations aren't that high, as he's never owned anything else, so naturally he's happy with his GM cars - they have gotten increasingly good as time went on, so why wouldn't he be happy?
Had he ever TRIED a Lexus, he'd be throwing rocks at his Brougham D' Elegance right now.......
Yep, all their fault, whoever THEY are.
Nothing to do with incompetent management, overpaid wages and benefits or second to third tier quality cars over the years. It's the GM haters that ultimately was the demise of GM. :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
Regards,
OW
Oh yes, GM is only a VICTIM from American's that are treacherous and commit treason. GM has NO, ZERO, ZILCH responsibility for their own livelihood and business model. GM is a perfect model of a company and was brought down by the people in subversive ways. I'm sure that is it!!!
Let no one take responsiblity for their own actions. Let no organization or business take responsibility for their own choices, decisions, and actions. No one deserves to suffer the consequences of their own actions!!!! Why should they, after all, the American tax payer budget is always there to bail them out, and they can afford 700 billion dollar bailouts, so they should!!!
I suppose selling lemons and not offering to extend warranties was too big a punishment for incompetence and arrogance. However, why couldn't the company have CHOSEN to cover warranties and extend warranties for problematic vehicles of the past? Why couldn't they improve quality high enough to offer impeccable warranties as good as the best out there without fine print and exclusions galore, and without the gov't having to subsidize the warranty, many years ago? Choices, choices choices. Why did the company decide to build a Cobalt, or Caliber (both self-destructing vehicles to any company with the gall to release such filth as vehicles)?
I'm sure that the public has complete control of GM's business decisions. I'm sure I had control of Chrysler's business decisions when they decided to stiff me with a lemon for my $15,000.
Frankly, if I wanted lemons, :lemon: I'd go to the Sunkist owned farms and get them for far less than the $15,000 variety of :lemon: Chrysler was selling in the 90's and still to this day.
The fortunes amassed by crooked corporate criminals in their quest for a new world order and one world government are ntouchable and unquestionable.
"Free market" globalists who want the developed world to compete directly with third world hellholes devoid of social and environmental responsibility should be revered.
"We shall have World Government, whether or not you like it. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent." - James Paul Warburg
Interesting I had the same problem on my Dodge Neon as you on your Intrepid. The A/C malfunctioned, compressor must of siezed, the belt didn't break but started burning. It took me a minute to figure out what was happening and causing the smoke to come out from under my hood. I turned off the A/C and like magic, the car was driveable again without an ear piercingly loud shreik and squeal coming out of the car.
That's interesting that both your Dodge and my Dodge had the same part fail. I can state that the same failure has occurred in not ONE of my, my families, parent's, friends Honda's Toyota's, VW's, and Audi's vehicles.
Unfortunately for me, the belt was burned badly enough that it became a victim of Chrysler's incompetence and was recommended to be repalced along with the AC compressor.
Have to disagree with your tenet there. The haters weren't the cause, they simply perpetuated the attitudes and misinformation about CURRENT vehicles so that people who might have bought the improved, yes improved, quality vehicles in the last 10 years or less, simplly didn't because they were affected by the constant drumbeat in the masses as well as the (usually) unbiased media (other than last election) that GM just JANG. The high cost of UAW vis-a-vis low paid Georgetown and Ohio workers for Honda/Toyo and the highly paid management of GM who wouldn't extend warranties on failure cluster parts are a major part.
Now for the fix. A new GM.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well, if it's any consolation, it did wait until it was almost 9 1/2 years old before it failed! And, I have to confess, I'm partly to blame.
Total bill was around $1301.00, although that included a lot of work to the whole system, which had gotten contaminated as a result, and the mechanic did throw on a new a/c belt, just to be safe.
So I'm not irritated at Chrysler so much as myself, for this little fiasco. I should've gotten it looked at once I knew it was starting to fail again.
The system should have a low pressure switch; too little freon pressure and it shuts off the system til recharged. What may have happened is recharging without adding to the oil that was lost along with the freon leaking out.
And the thing may just have a mechanical design defect that it died.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But at the end of the day, totally agree, the fix is a NEW GM that builds the best vehicles in the Universe.
Regards,
OW
What is the price differential though, between a DTS and an LS460? If money were no object, I'd go for the LS460 (sorry Lemko). But is the LS460 better enough to justify its higher price? To some, perhaps. But to others, maybe not.
Similarly, I think the Benz S-class, BWM 7-series, and Audi A8 are really nice cars, but like the LS460, they ain't exactly cheap!
I don't know if a failure after 10 years constitutes a mechanical design defect.
If it does, than Honda should review their "main relay." The '93 Civic, Accord, and '96 Accord all had the same failure at right around the 10 year mark. Come out on a hot day and the car won't start. No fuel.
The relay was undersized for the application and eventually burns out the connection on the circuit board...after getting popped for $130 the first time and $70 the second, I cracked open the case and fixed the 3rd one myself.
I don't know, I really don't think its fair to beat up on a car that is 8+ years out. There are too many other factors that affect its life by then.
Then agian, if I was a car and I belonged to some people, I would commit car suicide too :P
Yeah, that's why I don't beat up on my Intrepid when something breaks on it. After all, it'll be 10 years old in November, and I have about 146,000 miles on it. And you wanna know a dark, dirty little secret? The a/c compressor is the same unit they use in Honda Accords! Oh, the HUMANITY!!! :P
Yeah, that's why I don't beat up on my Intrepid when something breaks on it. After all, it'll be 10 years old in November, and I have about 146,000 miles on it. And you wanna know a dark, dirty little secret? The a/c compressor is the same unit they use in Honda Accords! Oh, the HUMANITY!!!
I think some stuff is regional too. I never replaced a suspension component other than a strut the whole time I lived in California. After moving to Michigan, one of the cars broke a spring, the other got bad ball joints. Then everyone wanted control arms.
Things don't rust in CA...surface rust maybe, but even the Accords with no clearcoat and the Chryslers with sheets of paint missing didn't actually rust.
For a sound bite fest, mark your calendars:
Lutz to Tangle on TV With Letterman and Colbert (Inside Line)
Let it be known that a single person has had such a horrible turn of events by purchasing a single GM that the quality of all current and all future GM be judged by that person from this day forward. OW is now the WORD on GM.
And anyone not finishing first everytime is a loser and needs shot.
JFK
Glad noboby took that advice.
Globalists
Elitists
Getting personal there. :sick: Need to keep it nonpersonal and general. I'm allowed to have my experiences and opinions just as a few others with their views have expressed them a few thousand times in posts repeating the same mantra of their opinion. Which makes my point about the PR push through the last several years against GM. But I digress...
But I guess that means we can put _you_ in the "No" column?
>I BOUGHT it
If there are so many problem vehicles in the last 5 years, why has the dealer's repair facility been more and more empty the last few years? Problem cars get returned to the dealer for repair.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What!!! Hondas had problems on cars? I thought they were perfect. You mean there was a pattern of failures and Honda didn't recall every car and replace the weak part the next day? How have they kept this hidden all these years? This should have been on the Nightly News every evening until Honda had warranteed every car to 200,000 miles or 30 years, whichever came first, for free repairs. :P
A lady who worked for us had a cute red Honda from such years and it wouldn't start one drizzly day. She was parked outside my office window. Another car fan and I kept telling her to "turn the key" because hers wouldn't crank. I believe it's the same relay under the left side of the dash? She was very upset. Later I found her exhusband was a manager at some level in a Honda store in the area, hence she had a Honda.
I wonder if Honda used the relays in their transmissions, and therefore their continuing transmission sagas?
All cars have some problems. The fellow across the road has 3 Acuras and his newest RL 3.5 with "Superdrive" had a failure of an EGR valve IIRC. $1300.
All cars have problems, and what's interesting is the attitude toward GM through the last many years. The etymology of it still seems rooted in CR and Ralph Nader from when GM was the 9th largest country in the world in terms of gross. The future of GM now hinges on people accepting that a turnaround can be made. That's going to have to get past the media techniques through the last many years of reporting every little recall that GM/Ford/Chrysler makes as if it were the end of the world and ignoring the recalls that the pop foreign brands end up having to publicize when forced to that point.
I recall the local TV talking head who would twist her mouth and nose when giving a recall about GM since this is a GM town. I saw her in her Camry at the local gas station and that fully explained it to me.
Since GM is at this point, I'd like to see a complete shed of all UAW contracts and responsibility for the old properties GM owns so they can have a fresh start like Honda and Toyota have had for the fraction of cars which they actually build and make all parts for in this country. I want the president out of it along with his shills on the auto control board. The president is going to us the crisis to push his and his advisors' agendas on CAFE, e.g., rather than improve the auto industry.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Do you have any idea just how arrogant Americans are outside their own land? Not all, of course, but the overwhelming majority have this "I'm the king of the world" mentality that makes me sick.
Oh yeah, and have you checked out the interior of a Lexus? The quality of materials used? The super quiet cabin? The red carpet customer service? Do you even realize how every switch and control have premium feel to it when you turn it? Sure it looks bland, but I'd willingly sacrifice looks if I can get that much in return.
Fintail, Taiwan is one of the unsafest place should doom nears, it'll be blasted by China by then and I sure as hell don;t wanna be there when that happens. :P
Not back in the mid 90s they didn't all use them. This was when a 3.1L V6 got 160 HP, you know...my current 2.3L I4 gets that
And how's that relevant to GM's case, Dave? What has GM done for the country? None. What has GM done for us? None, unless you consider selling failures as deeds.
What should we do for the country? Easy, help this country get rid of rotting companies like GM so a new, healthier company may emerge for the good of the country.
It's all give and take, and so far GM only takes and gives nothing.
Amen. You see, GMs are judged by exactly that. A single person who got burned and decided to never buy another GM. And that person talking to his friends and family. Word of mouth.
Then you multiply that by millions of single people. Talking to their family and friends. Which is what got GM to where it is today. Which is why it's important to deal with those single people properly.
And anyone not finishing first everytime is a loser and needs shot.
Anyone who never seems to be able to finish first, doesn't bother training or preparing, and then after the race always blames the judges, the audience, the stadium, the rules, and the other racers for him not finishing first....yeah, they need to be shot.
GM is not my country. No matter how many Mellencamp commercials they make.
Here's the real problem: in comparison, it's like saying Honda has moved 1000 steps forward and now is taking 10 steps backwards, while GM has moved 1000 steps forward but have to make up for the 100000 steps backwards it took.
It's easier to get forgiveness from a satisfied customer than to satisfy a disappointed customer.
Now what might have happened, was that the original chain was a substandard part, or maybe the original camshaft gear was plastic or mesh or whatever, and disintegrated early.
I also looked in a timing belt catalog, and the only V-6 engine from that engine family, which comprises the 2.8/3.1/3.4/3.5/3.9, is some years of the 3.4. And I think that was the DOHC version that they used in cars like the Lumina Z34 and such.
Also, I guess if a chain gets stretched out, it could let the pistons and valves slap. Or would the car get so far far out of tune that it would quit running, before that would happen?