Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options

GM News, New Models and Market Share

1111112114116117631

Comments

  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    If I were a homebuilder, would I be able to borrow $27,000 to build a home I would sell for $260,000? My business is an old clunker van and some hammers and ladders, valued at $700. Would you base the loan on my $700 worth of tools or the value of the $260,000 finished product sales?

    GM sells $260 billion a year worth of vehicles. Buyers have to Borrow over 200 Billion just to consume GM's output. That's been a problem lately. That's why the gov has to do the loaning.

    What if the gov could create $700 million companies that paid pensions and healthcare for 650,000 and employed another 200,000 people with just $27B in loans added in? Imagine how small the stimulus pkg would only have to be? Maybe $300 Billion instead of the $3 Trillion were are planning?
  • cryin4amercarscryin4amercars Member Posts: 5
    Below you will find the correspondences between myself and John Waldie, California's Chief Administrative Officer for the Assembly Rules Committee regarding politicians use of American taxpayer dollars to lease Japanese cars

    Dear Mr. Waldie,

    After reading about the current problems of the American automotive industry and talking with a representative from the 61st district, I learned that California does not always lease American made cars for its representatives. I would like to know if this statement is accurate and if so is there some document or statement that would verify this. If so I would appreciate the ability to read this document.
    Sincerely,
    DDA

    Jon Waldie

    It is true that we give the members of the Assembly the choice to purchase American manufactured vehicles or foreign models if they are interested in having a lease car during their term. The foreign models must be hybrids. It should be noted that “foreign” cars are often manufactured in the US as is the Hybrid Camry, which is made in Kentucky. Each vehicle is expected to be used by the member of the Assembly for a minimum of three years. We have restrictions on the cost of the cars which the Assembly purchases and then leases back to the members. The members must also provide insurance for the car.


    Financial problems at Ford and General Motors have been perpetuated by politicians who lease Japanese cars, but oppose legislation that provides financial aid to Ford and General Motors. There is strong evidence highlighting politicians’ general unwillingness to support the American automotive industry. Jon Waldie California’s Chief Administrative Officer for the Assembly Rules Committee stated that the California state government gives “Members of the Assembly the choice to purchase American manufactured vehicles or foreign models if they are interested in having a lease car during their term… It should be noted that “foreign” cars are often manufactured in the US as is the Hybrid Camry, which is made in Kentucky. It is a shame that California’s politicians and possibly those in other states are more willing to use taxpayer dollars to support foreign automotive companies like Toyota, than the domestic manufactures like Ford and General Motors. The American people have the right to know which politicians use their tax dollars to lease Japanese cars at the expense of Ford and General Motors.

    DDA
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,548
    Well, as someone who lives in KY, I do think that the Toyota cars made here are close to being American...That's a huge factory. Lots of jobs connected to it.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    If it was 20K brand new to start, 30K fully loaded and upgraded with all the bells and whistles.

    I think even with all the discounts, it's still way too overpriced.


    I think you are off by about 10k. It benchmarks favorably with the Infiniti G35/7 which runs 30-40. 60k for a limited production supercar version isn't out of the realm but is not the main vehicle...Mustang does the same thing. You can get a base or a GT, or a super-wazouli Shelby or SVT if you have the $$ to spend.
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    Actually this is why Stock went so low. From autonews.com

    GM shares fall to 76-year low after 6 executives sell shares.

    General Motors stock plunged to a 76-year low today, a day after a group of its executives disclosed they had sold shares in the struggling automaker. Six GM executives, led by former GM Vice Chairman and product chief Bob Lutz, disclosed on Monday that they sold almost $315,000 in stock and liquidated their remaining direct holding
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I guess if even the top executives think the stock isn't worth keeping, this company is very quickly going to become worthless now.

    The TV news speculated that these 6 would have been prosecuted for insider trading or some such thing, except that they were given a window that closed yesterday for selling all their stock. Who gave them that window and why? I guess that's why they call it TV news....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Uh, I dont care about helping either of the D2. I'm only concerned with quality and after sales service. Both are in question, especially customer service if GM dies.

    Chrysler 300c is a good car, but too bad the company's in so much trouble I doubt there'll be adequate customer service for the brand in the future. I'll bother helping them when I have more money to burn, right now I just don't. I don't wanna be bothered with poor service, I want what I payed for :P

    Sorry GM and Chrysler, but it's not my fault you guys become what you are now. :shades:
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Up until recently, there were few domestic hybrid options, so I can understand offering the choice. GM's hybrids are just cars with hybrid badges and no fuel savings, and all Ford had was the Escape Hybrid, and Chrysler had (and has) none. So if the member preferred some sort of "green" vehicle, it had to be a Prius, Camry, Civic, Altima, etc. On the one hand, they might re-think the rule a bit now that Ford has the Fusion and Milan Hybrids, but on the other hand Chrysler doesn't really exist anymore, GM might not soon, and I don't think either one is doing leasing anymore anyway. Can't lease a car if no one is willing to write the lease. And GM's "hybrids" are still vehicles that use the same amount of fuel and just have a glued-on Hybrid badge.

    It's not like the assembly was leasing Accords and Maximas in bulk. They had a choice between American makes and hybrids, and that was it. Everything Ford, GM, and the manufacturer formerly known as Chrysler, versus two Hondas, one Nissan, and what, three Toyotas?

    If that many members wanted hybrids that actually saved fuel, it was the Big3's fault for not offering choices in that area. Ford learned from that and now offers the Fusion/Milan hybrids. Patriotism is nice, but it gets to be a little difficult to legislate it. Take that hybrid option away and I bet these members would simply have leased them on their own dime anyway. Which also is taxpayer money you know.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Actually, buying another Lexus is EXACTLY what will help Ford and the burnt-out embers that will own Caddy return to making a world class Lexus beater. Lincoln is dead AFAIC and Caddy has the CTS alone.

    That would be my choice if I were you for the next 5 years. :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Exactly...the competition eats the CTS for lunch because of the price. ..instead of the stupid incentive system that reminds me of frequent flyer miles drug that ruined the airlines.

    The new owner of Caddy better get it right. :mad:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Should'a went bankrupt last year...wasted money. Now we know that the money spent will NEVER be repaid.

    How does it feel to have your money torched?? :mad:

    Regards,
    OW
  • petastlepetastle Member Posts: 3
    Dooms day scenario seems to be very near for GM since itsc Chief executive Officer Fritz Henderson has said that its "more probable" than ever that the car manufacturer will now file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    They saw the deal with Chrysler, where the bondholders held everything up, and figure the same will happen to them. If the bondholders won't voluntarily agree to something (besides liquidation so they can collect the taxpayer bailout cash) then it takes a BK judge to ram something down their throat. And down the UAW's throat too, if necessary, but I doubt it'll be necessary. Middlefinger knows if GM goes out of business they don't get ANYTHING for VEBA, and lose a ton of union jobs. He doesn't want that.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >Middlefinger knows if GM goes out of business they don't get ANYTHING for VEBA, and lose a ton of union jobs. He doesn't want that.

    If anyone thinks BObama is going to allow anything to happen to weaken the unions more, think again. He just made CA rethink it's cut on pay to Unionized homehealth care workers paid by the state... Surprise.

    Now he's working on healthcare reform: remember when he didn't like taxing healthcare plans to companies and workers? Remember when his campaign put out mailers saying that McCain was going to tax healthcare benefits?--and that was BAD. Well now BO's going to tax them. Better start calling your congressfolk. He's announcing that bill will be passed by the end of the year and there is little in the way of specifics since it hasn't been written. Guess it's going to be like the stimulus bill that noone reads before they pass it.

    Unions are going to be protected at the cost of the economy, what's left, as long as the politician and his shadow advisers are in the White House.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Remember when his campaign put out mailers saying that McCain was going to tax healthcare benefits?--and that was BAD.

    Of course. Anything the "other guy" does is bad, especially in Washington. And when "your guy" does it, it becomes OK. What rock have you been under? :shades:

    Obama doesn't want to weaken the unions, true, but he knows he'll never get away with propping up GM forever. He had to let Chrysler go into BK just because popular support for more bailouts is nonexistent. Without popular support, "his guys" don't get elected/re-elected, and he doesn't get re-elected in 4 years.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Well, the Intrepid is going to the mechanic tonight, because the oil pressure light has a slight flicker to it. Hopefully it's just a sending unit, sensor, or whatever. But if it's something truly catastrophic, that might be my excuse to get a new car.

    Update...I just got a call from my mechanic's receptionist. Turns out it was just a switch, or sending unit, or whatever. Total bill was $176. So, sorry GM, but you're just going to have to wait. No new G8 for me, at least not in the near future!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    That Intrepid's got more lives than a cat! Dodge cars are ram tough!
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Securities regulations. Nothing nefarious, just the consequence of disclosure and timeline restrictions.
  • cryin4amercarscryin4amercars Member Posts: 5
    I want to ask you several questions. 1) Are you willing to allow your representatives to rely on foreign investment to fuel the economy? 2) GM and Ford have more factories and employ more people than Toyota and Honda. If GM goes under, Toyota and Honda have less incentive to invest in the U.S. It is more economical to invest in China, as Toyota has noticed. The point is American politicians should represent the American industry, they should not support foreign investment at the expense of American industry.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    You got a list of good cars there, except for one tiny detail (at least IMO): none of these cars offer handling and build quality comparable to the G37, which in my case are really important.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    American politicians represent no one but American politicians, and their personal purchases are a drop in the bucket anyway. And it sounds to me like you want them running around naked, since this country no longer has a textile industry to speak of. :shades:

    Reality: if they wanted to save the taxpayers some money on fuel, and buy a wonderfully green vehicle because California is so concerned about air quality (make no mistake, this is very important to their constituency), they had no CHOICE buy to buy a foreign make because the domestics basically said "Forget you you silly Left Coast morons, we don't need your business!!"

    Now Chrysler is dead, GM, tried to pretend they didn't mean it by slapping hybrid badges around like candy, and Ford has asked forgiveness and released the Fusion/Milan Hybrid twins. Why? Competition. Someone finally decided "Forget us? Dude, we're the CUSTOMERS. Forget YOU." And they went and bought imports instead, despite restrictive, anti-free-market legislation.

    Such is life.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Logically speaking California is more concerned about being green than helping domestic autos.

    Plus, I don't think it matters as long as the car's built in US, who cares about the brand.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    1. Why bother? We're ALREADY relying on foreign investments to fuel the economy.

    2. Not true. If GM's plan to import cars from China and other places takes place there will be major shutdowns everywhere in US. Plus they're not employing, they're forced to employ.

    Which would you choose? Supporting the American workers, regardless of them being union or not, by buying an American BUILT car (regardless of brand), or supporting the American BRAND car built elsewhere?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I want it both ways - an American-built car with an American brand! Forcing me to buy a Honda or a Toyota is like making me date the fat ugly girl because she's got a great personality. Sure, she might have a great personality, be an excellent cook, be great in bed, and a wonderful mother, but I'm still ashamed to be seen with her!
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    If I knew for sure it was the end for GM, I'd buy the ULTIMATE Buick Lucerne CXS Super.

    I think you'd better buy it, lemko.......it's over. GM is now Government Motors, no matter what happens, and that car is going to be toast, as it is not Obama approved.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Forcing me to buy a Honda or a Toyota is like making me date the fat ugly girl because she's got a great personality. Sure, she might have a great personality, be an excellent cook, be great in bed, and a wonderful mother, but I'm still ashamed to be seen with her!

    Funny, that's EXACTLY how I feel about Buick!!! :shades:
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    General Motors stock plunged to a 76-year low today, a day after a group of its executives disclosed they had sold shares in the struggling automaker. Six GM executives, led by former GM Vice Chairman and product chief Bob Lutz, disclosed on Monday that they sold almost $315,000 in stock and liquidated their remaining direct holding

    Go buy that Buick Lucerne, lemko, it's over, can't you see?
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I though somebody had a really nice Park Avenue for sale
    image

    and all I found was this skanky broad!
    image
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    link title

    GM has issued a recall of 15,393 Chevrolet Traverse vehicles from the 2009 model year, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

    The issue is with the parking brake, which doesn’t comply with federal safety requirements. The parking brake cable link isn’t to specification, and the connector may fracture when the parking brake pedal is depressed.


    link title

    Separately, GM is recalling 27,188 2009 model year Cadillac Escalades (all models) Chevrolet Suburbans, Tahoes, Avalanches and Colorados and GMC Yukons, Yukon XLs and Canyons. The recall is due to a improperly sealed fuel system control module that could allow water to seep in. If water breaches the system, a host of warning lights can be set off and the vehicle may become hard or impossible to start.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I want it both ways - an American-built car with an American brand! Forcing me to buy a Honda or a Toyota is like making me date the fat ugly girl because she's got a great personality. Sure, she might have a great personality, be an excellent cook, be great in bed, and a wonderful mother, but I'm still ashamed to be seen with her!

    And yet you're willing to be seen in a Buick? :shades:
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    I think you are off by about 10k. It benchmarks favorably with the Infiniti G35/7 which runs 30-40.

    In order for that statement to make sense, does the CTS sell as well as the G35/37? If it does, then I guess the American people agree with you; if it doesn't, I think you are 10K off, not me.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    I'd prefer Japanese cars to be bought by our Gov't as that would save tax payer dollars in the long run.

    Less fuel costs, less repair costs, less tow truck costs, less down time. The gov't should be buying from the lowest bidder, but the bid needs to include maintenance and repair costs + fuel. It has to be a true cost to own figure. The Big 3 are never going to be finanacially sound decisions using more than "purchase" price as a comparison.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Wow...looks like Caddy used some of GMC's parts there!

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'M PROUD TO BE SEEN IN A BUICK!!!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Well, I guess you could be buried in one too! Here is a Caddy Coffin you can consider!

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • cryin4amercarscryin4amercars Member Posts: 5
    Actually, JD Powers ranked Buick highest in reliability and quality. This means that tow truck costs were minimal. Furthermore, Japanese cars made in the U.S. tend to cost more than American cars made in the U.S. So that means your tax dollars are being wasted. Third ask any country, especially industrializing countries whether they prefer domestic or foriegn investment and I guarantee you they will say that foreign investment has the tendency to move to the places where there are low labor costs. I guarantee labor costs are less in China than in the U.S. Finally, in terms of GM if they recieve money they would use that to invest in their own company rather than import cars. That is their last option. Let me close with this: In the early 1900's American manufacturers included Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, Packard, Dusenberg, Studebaker, Chrysler, Dodge, Oldsmobile, Buick, and others. During the 1940's several American companies went under, Dusenberg was just one. After WWII Packard faced not because of poor management but because of the fact that its facotries had been used to build war supplies, and the cost of conerting them back was large. Consequently, they were bought by Studebaker, and survived several more years until Studebaker killed Packard, By the late 1950's the only American companies which survived were Chevrolet, Ford, Oldsmobile, etc. By the 1970's gas prices hit the America, and manufactures which had made cars which appealed to the American consumer, were hit hard financially, when they were forced to shift immedialty from large to small cars. As Toyota and Honda increased their presence in the American market more American companies have died, Oldsmobile,, Pontiac. History has shown that fewer American manufactures exist today. Looking at the financial problems of Ford and General motors, should be seen as a possible warning to people in America. Americans are consumers , not producers, with the success of General Motors we can reverse this course and once again become profitable. If not, GM will serve as a reminder to the American public that if Ford fails to repay its mortgages, it too will be destroyed. Esssentially there will be no american manufacturers. If apathetic Americans are willing to accept this then, they are unpatriotic. Those, who have enough foresight to realize that foreign investment is unreliable have the opportunity to help two of the remaining American automotive manufacturers survive. Support America, Support the American Automotive industry not fake industry that emphasizes foreign investment
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Actually, JD Powers ranked Buick highest in reliability and quality. This means that tow truck costs were minimal. Furthermore, Japanese cars made in the U.S. tend to cost more than American cars made in the U.S. So that means your tax dollars are being wasted.

    So you would either have all government employees driving Buicks (none of whom deserve anywhere near that level of luxury). And American cars tend to cost more than Japanese cars made in the US when you factor in repairs and fuel and everything else...what Edmunds refers to as Total Cost of Ownership. Which also includes depreciation as well, meaning when our government fleets are done with them, they can be auctioned off for more money than the domestics can be. Which is more efficient use of tax dollars, no matter what Bob "Women and Board Members First!" Lutz wants people to think.

    This even includes my buddies at Ford, which is a company I'm a big fan of these days. But their resale value hasn't improved to the point of the imports yet, and I'm willing to admit it.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I think you are off by about 10k. It benchmarks favorably with the Infiniti G35/7 which runs 30-40.

    In order for that statement to make sense, does the CTS sell as well as the G35/37? If it does, then I guess the American people agree with you; if it doesn't, I think you are 10K off, not me.

    So do you have sales numbers for both then?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would say when the supply gets better the Fusion Hybrid would be an obvious choice for the government agencies to buy. However they are made in Mexico. So is it better to lease a Fusion hybrid made in Mexico or a Camry hybrid assembled in the USA?

    I totally agree that a government agency buying a Buick because it was built here is crazy. Maybe a Malibu hybrid though they are not in a league with the other hybrids. The Chevy Malibu Hybrid gets 22% less MPG in town where most government miles are posted. Even worse against the Fusion Hybrid.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    These are narrow sighted arguments. It's the type of tax that the gov is collecting that matters. If it is payroll tax and social security tax, then there is probably also sales tax and property taxes being paid also. All theses taxes are generated by Jobs in America. The more of these jobs that there are, the better for America. Saving a little tax money over a long period of time on an argument based on a complex set of hypothetical repairs and maintenance numbers doesn't stack up against a lower sticker price from the D3.

    One one hand you have America struggling to still keep jobs. They just announced a new, moved up by 4 years, date for when soc sec will go bankrupt. Buying a foreign maker's car hurts the local economy on up. We all say that taxes are 1/3 of our income when you add it all up. A $60,000 UAW worker pays a lot of tax, year after year. The additional cost up front has to bear interest in a gov. calculation, so would higher insurance cost.

    Resale value at auction many years later is the "PAY BACK"?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    They just announced a new, moved up by 4 years, date for when soc sec will go bankrupt

    Of course they did. That is the standard ploy before they raise the SS tax. What they do not tell you is the National debt, you know that $10trillion plus we have borrowed. $3Trillion of that debt is owed to the SS fund. Stolen from on a regular basis to pay for other programs.

    A $60,000 UAW worker pays a lot of tax

    So does a $40,000 non union auto worker. The non union auto worker will still have his job because his greed did not bankrupt the company. I noticed the other day our local school district has small Kia's in their fleet. They buy cheap cars so they can keep layers of worthless administration on the payroll doing nothing but driving around in our little foreign cars.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Third ask any country, especially industrializing countries whether they prefer domestic or foriegn investment and I guarantee you they will say that foreign investment has the tendency to move to the places where there are low labor costs.

    Sort of like GM's announcement that it will make cars in China for import into the US.

    Finally, in terms of GM if they recieve money they would use that to invest in their own company rather than import cars.

    Funny, not according to their announcement.

    By the 1970's gas prices hit the America, and manufactures which had made cars which appealed to the American consumer, were hit hard financially, when they were forced to shift immedialty from large to small cars.

    Actually, the small car invasion started with VW in the 1950's. GM tried a small car in the Corvair and it was a disaster. GM tried again with the Vega in the 1970's and it was a disaster. The American carmakers were not *suddenly* forced to switch to small cars. They just failed miserably for about 20 years to put out a competitive small car.

    with the success of General Motors we can reverse this course and once again become profitable.

    I've missed which GM success you are talking about.

    Those, who have enough foresight to realize that foreign investment is unreliable

    Seems to me the foreign makes have been building plants in the US and the D3 have been destroying plants and moving them to other countries.

    Support America, Support the American Automotive industry

    Well my Honda and my Acura were both assembled by US workers right here in this country!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    A car that is bought for $20k and then sold at auction for $10k is greater pay back than a car bought for $18k and sold for $5k (plus had $2k worth of repairs).

    One one hand you have America struggling to still keep jobs. They just announced a new, moved up by 4 years, date for when soc sec will go bankrupt. Buying a foreign maker's car hurts the local economy on up.

    Not when the foreign car is built by a bunch of Americans and the "domestic" car is built in China or Korea, after being designed by Chinese or Koreans. Or even in Mexico, though buying a Fusion (which was designed here) creates assembly jobs in Mexico thereby (hopefully) reducing the demand to illegally immigrate to the US, directly benefiting this country, so I look a bit more favorably on that.
  • petastlepetastle Member Posts: 3
    One one hand you have America struggling to still keep jobs. They just announced a new, moved up by 4 years, date for when soc sec will go bankrupt.

    I just dread that scenario,things are already uncertain good news is hard to come by.

    Or even in Mexico, though buying a Fusion (which was designed here) creates assembly jobs in Mexico thereby (hopefully) reducing the demand to illegally immigrate to the US, directly benefiting this country, so I look a bit more favorably on that

    LOL!thats the nice way of looking at it,some humour always helps in these tough times.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Finally, in terms of GM if they recieve money they would use that to invest in their own company rather than import cars.

    link title

    According to the document acquired by Automotive News, General Motors plans on selling about 17,300 China-made vehicles in the U.S. in 2011. The number is expected to blossom to 51,500 units by the year 2014.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >Stolen from on a regular basis to pay for other programs.

    But they put vouchers in to note they were borrowing the money... :blush: :P

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is well documented. Just not covered by the media. I don't think people realize how wealthy the SS fund was in the early 1960s when the Democrats raided the fund and dumped it into the General Fund. Congress acts like they are being generous with SS payments. When in reality if they did not use the money for welfare to those that never contributed a dime it would still be overflowing with money. The working man pays a lot into the fund his whole career. Then told sorry we spent it on an illegal in an emergency room or renting them an apartment like Obama's aunt.

    General motors has been run a lot like the Federal government. They felt it was a right to build whatever they wanted to build and we would buy it. The most glaring example may be the Ponzi scheme for retirees health care. When GM sold 50% of the cars in the USA and had fewer retirees, they could justify the added cost of health care for life. Now they are headed toward 15% of the US market and a LOT more retirees to care for. It was a disaster in the making when they signed the UAW contracts. Hopefully GM's share will go to automakers building cars in the USA. If those companies are run like our government, they will go broke also.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I noticed the other day our local school district has small Kia's in their fleet. They buy cheap cars so they can keep layers of worthless administration on the payroll doing nothing but driving around in our little foreign cars.

    Do you live in Clark County too, gagrice???? ;)
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    CTS January through April '09: 14,452
    G37 January through April '09: 13,276 (9,480 sedan + 3,796 coupe)
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    How did the '08 CTS and G35 sales compare bumpy? I have a feeling the G37 is a failure compared to G35.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Sign In or Register to comment.