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Exactly my point, except that I'm NOT your "bud."
When Honda has relays, transmission problems across the brands and the Odyssey especially now, and the VCM not working smoothly on their current Accords, where's the indignation?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Why would he even think about returning to GM in the future?
Sadly, I have many of these stories from over the years.
What I get a kick out of though is the GM fansites that I've visited and those people claiming their GM vehicles are perfect and everyone who doesn't own one is an ignorant, biased idiot, yet after 2 -3 years they are trading it on a new one. They also own 4 or 5 GM vehicles so what do these things have for mileage before getting traded? 20k? Hardly a testament to longevity nor long-term reliability.
I've had Hondas that have broken the 6 digit mark and have been well into the 120 - 130k mile range and I never had anything serious go wrong with any of them. I know first hand what the longevity of one of these things is. And I'm now on my way to experiencing what it's like to take a Subaru up to that mileage and what that ownership entails. Shoot, I had a Ford that I took to the 100k mark as a point of reference.
What I really love is when I hear people say that while they wait for their GM to be fixed. Even better if they mention in passing that it's the umpteenth time it's been in for the same problem.
Now you tell me! A little too late, don't you think?? :lemon:
Besides, my work is done on that score. After 40 years of buying ONLY D3 cars, let there be light! :shades:
Regards,
OW
Red Carpet Service? Heck, my Cadillac dealer treats me like a king. I'm actually uncomfortable with people showing me that much attention as I'm rather laid-back.
Apparently my 86 Suburban did not have this low pressure switch. Compressor froze up approx 1992 and bill for replacement was $800. How poor was GM engineering to not have this switch. Other makes had it at that time. Failures like this did bring in more revenue for GM parts and the dealers.
Letterman is quick witted and can be funny. But, he is dumb, ignorant and highly biased/opinionated. He should stick with inteviewing actors, actresses and musicians. Too bad Lutz agreed to be on show with that jerk.
Europe is lost, NA is lost, central Asia doesn't seem to have much hope...so I guess it's Africa or South America. The latter seems to have its own share of success building cars.
South America sounds good and those Brazilian women are beautiful! Better learn Portugese!
How about where GM got the G8? Or, nearby New Zealand?
I guess real car guys don't own Indy cars, like Dave does eh?
Indy 500: Rahal Letterman Racing Bump Day report
Plus Dave is from the GM dominated mid-west, not a New Yorker/Massachusettan like Jay.
(What do you call people from Massachusetts anyway, besides the "holes" or Bay Stater verisons?)
NZ doesn't have much of an auto industry to speak of.
I know a woman who spends a few months a year in Chile. She claims it is an excellent place, and much prefers it to the rest of her year spent in Virginia.
Argentina and Brazil have been automakers for some time now - so they could expand no doubt.
And of course the other precedent this sets is for other Chevys and of course Buicks to be Chinese-built within a few years. Will American buyers even take notice and care about where the cars are being built? If they do, will this be a major impediment to GM's recovery, or will people be so sold on price they will buy them despite the Chinese manufacture?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Specifically, Dave is from Indiana! He went to one of my alma maters. He's often in the alumni magazine.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
St. Louis lawmakers push to keep GM, Chrysler dealerships open (St. Louis Business Journal)
Didn't see this one coming. Uh-huh, no way. :P
Nope. Real car guys turn right as well as left. :shades:
I don't think Letterman is as into the whole automotive scene as Leno is.
I know this is going to be good...
Do you mean something like the Flying Pigs in Cincinnati because it used to be a meat packing center?
Do you mean hams because Indiana has a lot of hog farms? My college friend (Sigma Tau) worked in a slaughter house to help pay for college. I was always impressed that his fraternity brothers could open beer bottles by removing the crimped on caps with their teeth.
Do you mean hams as in radio and pilots who fly in to gatherings using their ham radios?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
link
Dave will probably give Lutz one as a lovely parting gift.
This is why I truly hope there is a God so these globalist elitists go to the damnation they so richly deserve!
Oh, I will stop buying GM cars in a New York second if they just become an importer of crappy Chinese cars! I will see it as the ULTIMATE BETRAYAL!!! I don't just shop on price like some lemming. This is why I largely avoid Wal~Mart. If Wal~Mart had GOOD QUALITY merchandise at low prices, I would shop there.
What if they import Chinese Buicks? :shades:
I have to agree, and think it was a big mistake for Lutz to go on the show with him. He was NOT among friends.....
I think Honda WILL begin bringing in cars made in China if GM doesn't experience a consumer backlash from doing so. And they won't be the only ones either. For all the transplants, bringing them in from China is cheaper than bringing them in from Japan or building new production capacity in the U.S.
But I hope they give it enough time to see if it will backfire for GM before trying it themselves....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I don't think anybody is saying all cars don't have problems. The issue is when brand A has more disgruntled owners than brand B, then brand B gains market share and brand A loses market share (of course other factors such as style, power, efficiency, etc. enter into it as well). Blaming GMs problems on Ralph Nader is laughable, Ralph hasn't had any significant effect for about 40 years. GM's problems are a combination of vehicles of lower reliability, poor vehicles in a number of categories (premium sedans; small sedans and hatchbacks), poorer refinement and interior quality, etc.
There is a lot of scapegoating for GM, but their problems are their own. Poor management decisions, agreement to onerous union contracts, the UAW holding a gun to management's head - it all adds up. It was never going to be sustainable. So on June 1 or thereabouts the piper will be paid.
I know I wouldn't trust a Chinese car any further than I could throw it.
But as real incomes and genuine standards of living continue to decline, people will likely have no choice but to buy the Soylent Green offered by their globalist masters.
I wonder what the GM proponents will say once the remaining US manufacturers import most of their vehicles and most of the US-assembled vehicles are from foreign nameplates? Will they still say to buy Ford/GM from overseas, or will they finally agree that buying a US made Honda, Toyota, BMW, Hyundai, or Nissan is ok?
I just saw an article in the Philadelphia Metro newspaper about students graduating from the University of Penn into this uncertain economy. Shame a lot of these Ivy Leaguers are going to end up be the most-educated clerks at the Gap! :mad: If an Ivy League degree can no longer get yet ahead, what chance has the average slob?
Oh, as for that Soylent Green - I'll have mine in Wall Street Trader flavor!
I remember when I graduated in 2001, everyone was lamenting the slow job market. That was a goldmine compared to today.
Maybe that South American escape would be workable. Brazil makes GMs I think, and Argentina has made Fords for some time IIRC.
Heck, when I graduated in December 1993, everybody was lamenting about the job market! Kinda makes me wonder, has it EVER been good? :surprise:
I think what hurt you and fintail is that you graduated in recessionary times. You graduated right after the old man Bush's recession and fintail just in time for 9-11.
With Chinese parts? Better lay in half a dozen junkyard specials and stock up on crates of NOS from shuttered Buick dealers while you can.
I suspect a lot of grads of the past 8 years or so are in worse shape than mine or Andre's counterparts, as so many jobs were created based on a bloated and artificial financial sector, not to mention others like those based around computers. I talked to the manager of my apartment building yesterday, he said Microsoft workers are "dropping like flies" :sick:
Actually that would be a pretty sweet deal.
NEW YORK, May 19 (Reuters) - General Motors Corp's (GM.N) plan for a bankruptcy filing involves a quick sale of the company's healthy assets to a new company initially owned by the U.S. government, a source familiar with the situation said on Tuesday.
The source, who would not be named because he was not cleared to speak with the media, did not specify a purchase price. The new company is expected to honor the claims of secured lenders, possibly in full, according to the source.
The remaining assets of GM would stay in bankruptcy protection to satisfy other outstanding claims.
Cadillac had not one, but two, engines prone to catastrophic failure- the '81 V8-6-4 was a 368 V8 with cylinder deactivation to improve fuel ecomomy by disabling either two or four cylinders when they weren't needed. The technology wasn't available to make it happen, but they found out the hard way! The same 368 returned in '82 but without cylinder deactivation.
The other Cadillac nightmare was called the HT4100. This engineering marvel featured an aluminum block, and for reasons unknown, cast iron cylinder heads. Displacing a paltry 249 cubic inches, it produced a meager 135 horsepower at 4,400 rpm. Common problems were related to failed head gaskets, which allowed coolant into the crankcase. Even when they ran, the HT4100 was grossly underpowered. And Olds V8 replaced many of them.
The same year, they rolled out the Cadillac Cimmarron...enough said.
Starting in '82, they had the look-alike cookie-cutter cars for each division- the J-car (Chevy Cavalier, Pontiac J2000/Sunbird, Buick Skyhawk, Olds Firenza and the wretched Cimarron) as well as the A-body (CHevy Celebrity, Pontiac 6000, Buick Century and Olds Cutlass Ciera).
In '84, they rolled out the Pontaic Fiero to positive critical acclaim. But a design flaw in the mid-engined layout caused at least 260 of the '84 models to catch on fire. Starting in the center of the car, it was nothing but melted fiberglass in just a few minutes. My cousin was one of the 260, she'll never buy GM again.
Then into the mid 80's, they introduced new, more compact version of the Olds Toronado, Buick Riviera and Cadillac Eldorado that most GM execs couldn't tell apart!
I could keep going thru one debacle after another up to very recently (when they decided to put an ugly beak on the already hideous Chevy Aveo and called it the Pontiac G3)! But my point is that they NEVER seem to learn from these screw-ups!
The vast majority of people who went thru any of these nightmares were unlikely to ever consider GM again....I don't blame them! GM has been arrogant, incompetent and downright idiotic in many of these situations they've created. And now they're paying for for their transgressions!
There are many, many more reasons like you illustrated that shows their arrogance, waste and loss of direction as a volume auto manufacturer. Incompetence and idiocy are the management mantras that will go down in a history book stamped with GM on the cover.
Regards,
OW
From the late 70s, it's been one debacle after another- from the late 70's to mid-80's, there was the Olds 350 Diesel (named one of the 10 worst engines in auto history). It was used in just about every mid- and full-size car by each GM division- even making its way into top Cadillac models. Eventually, they had to replace with a gasoline V8 under warranty on every one they built!
I think at the peak, Diesel sales only accounted for maybe 5-10% in the models they were available in. IIRC, the 350 Diesel first came out in 1978, but initially was only offered in a handful of big cars. For 1980 they expanded its availability, and at its peak, in 1982, I think it was offered in every intermediate and full-sized RWD car. By that time, it had a bad rap though, and popularity was waning. I imagine very few 1983-85 model cars had the Diesel, as gas was cheap and plentiful again. Also, standard operating procedure was not to replace them with a gasoline V-8. More than likely, GM dealers just did the bare minimum required to get the things to limp past the warranty period, and then the owners were on their own. Where the confusion may lie, however, is that while the Olds 350 sucks as a Diesel engine, it's a great engine to take and convert back to gasoline, as it has a strengthened block and other components. It wasn't strong enough to make for a good Diesel, unfortunately, but it's beefy enough that it's great for building a high-performance gasoline engine out of.
Cadillac had not one, but two, engines prone to catastrophic failure- the '81 V8-6-4 was a 368 V8 with cylinder deactivation to improve fuel ecomomy by disabling either two or four cylinders when they weren't needed. The technology wasn't available to make it happen, but they found out the hard way! The same 368 returned in '82 but without cylinder deactivation.
My understanding of the V-8-6-4 was that all you had to do was deactivate the cylinder deactivation, making it run on 8 cylinders all the time, and problem solved. Of course, that shows it was just a waste of money and immature technology. The 368 was eliminated in all uses for 1982, with the exception of the limo and commercial chassis, which was offered through 1984.
The other Cadillac nightmare was called the HT4100. This engineering marvel featured an aluminum block, and for reasons unknown, cast iron cylinder heads. Displacing a paltry 249 cubic inches, it produced a meager 135 horsepower at 4,400 rpm. Common problems were related to failed head gaskets, which allowed coolant into the crankcase. Even when they ran, the HT4100 was grossly underpowered. And Olds V8 replaced many of them.
Yeah, this one was crap, but I guess they thought it was a good idea at the time! Initially it only put out 125 hp! For the time though, that was fairly competitive for engines in that displacement. Pontiac had a 265 that only put out 120 hp, while Oldsmobile's 260 only put out 100-110! Chevy had a 267 that usually put out 115-125 hp, depending on the year. Ford had a 255 V-8 that only put out 112 hp, while their 302 was putting out 130. Chrysler's 318 got knocked down to all of 120 hp for 1980, but recovered slightly to 130 for 1981-84. Sadly, on a hp-to-CID ratio, the Caddy 249 was probably class-leading among domestics.
The 135 hp version was used in the RWD DeVille/Fleetwood Brougham, staring in 1984 I believe, maybe earlier. But in the Eldorado/Seville, it stayed at a paltry 125 hp through 1985. The downsized FWD C-bodies, for 1985, also had 125 hp. For 1986, I think they got a boost to 150, while Caddy got smart with the RWD Brougham, and started using a 140 hp Olds 307. It only had 5 more hp, but a lot more torque, so they could gear it taller. 2.73:1, compared to a 3.42:1 that the 249 had to use in those big cars. I don't think it was that much faster from 0-60, but was definitely better at higher speeds, and much more economical to boot. And much, much more durable!
If I were in charge of Cadillac, I'd have simply kept the excellent 425 V-8 from 1977-79 in the cars and gave the eco-weenies at the EPA a big upright middle finger. I'd have waited for a properly developed replacement than rush the half-baked V-8-6-4 and HT4100 into production like they did. Heck, a 350 Chevy small block would've been a better option than either the HT4100 or V-8-6-4.
Maybe one can start with Honda's current multicylinder disable engine with VCM that's generating quite a bit of discussion; the company just says they're operating as designed..
Then there's Honda's odyssey with transmission failures still current with their Odyssey van based on the Accord IIRC. Replacing transmissions for people within warranty is nice but the replacements fail as early as the originals, so someone over the 100K extended coverage for transmissions only on earlier models still leaves people with a bad transmission at the next failure after 100K.
It's nice that Toyota and Honda make enough extra money on the sales that they essentially have charged for an extended warranty and replace such things while GM wasn't making enough due to overpriced UAW and upper management along with some design/engineering staff counting beans and skimping on things that would have helped quality or sales.
If needed I can go through the discussions here and find more failings of some other car companies that happen, so someone can point out GM is not the only company that tried engineering changes and had them fail.
How about talking of sludging in motors and blaming the Toyota owners who were following the time and mileage guidelines for changing oil.
The point is it's nice to rag on GM, but there are many things that have gone wrong through the years for customers to put up with with other car companies.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,