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How sad is it for GM that the Chinese don't even want to make credible knockoffs of their cars?
That Mini is really shameful. This crap needs to result in sanctions. They need us more than we need them.
The interesting question is what's the real item and what's the ripoff if they both are made in China? :P
You probably know I buy cars at the auctions for my friends and clients upon request - usually I just get them whatever it is they want, unless they specifically ask my opinion about a car. Then my experience and bias kicks in. Recently I have sold a lot of inadvertant Chryslers to people. Hey, it's what they want. Occasionally though, they will ask for a good buy, value and price, and I will recommend a GM car. They have poor resale, so you get them cheap second-hand, which can make them a teriffic used car value!!
I don't know. Did they go on strike and disrupt the operation of the company when it finally started getting some credibility? Kind of like UAW going on strike at the only plants building vehicles anyone wanted last year.
I don't know. Did they go on strike and disrupt the operation of the company when it finally started getting some credibility? Kind of like UAW going on strike at the only plants building vehicles anyone wanted last year.
No, they just designed and approved abortions like the Aveo, Cobalt, Impala, Caliber, etc. All the vehicles people didn't want. And then gave themselves raises because they were doing such good jobs.
Then you have bondholders who will lobby for a taxpayer bailout to restructure, then throw a monkeywrench into said restructuring so that the company can liquidate and they can collect the taxpayer money.
Nothing is ever as simple as one side wants it to be. Words to live by. :shades:
How you got such an idea about bond holders. I know they are taking a big risk with THEIR money. Why are they any less deserving in a bankruptcy? If not for the bondholders GM would have been gone long ago. GM borrowed $80 Billion to keep the sinking ship afloat. When the money was lent the law said they have first right in a bankruptcy. Why is that so bad? I am just against throwing out the Constitution on a whim. Call me old fashioned, when I borrow money from someone I feel obligated to pay it back. No matter what other people do. I am in deeper than I would like to be on the home I live in. I am not going to dump it on the bank. And I did not borrow more than I could afford. Time for GM to pay up or LIQUIDATE.
Good question. Mostly are otherwise too, though, LOL
Non-Luxury:
Nissan Rogue and Altima
Honda Civic
2010 Ford Fusion
2009 Mazda6, CX7
Chevy Camaro
VW GTI
Luxury:
MB CLS (is it considered a late model?)
Audi A5
09 Infiniti FX
Porsche Cayman
These are, IMO, great looking cars out there for somewhat reasonable price (nothing above $100k, definitely).
Because bondholders are sneaky conmen and are basically made up of the same personalities as Waggoner maybe? :shades:
The whole point about the "bailout" money was to allow the companies to restructure, not to cover bond losses. If they do liquidate, bondholders should get no more than the company had in its coffers pre-bailout. The bailout loans were declared to be senior specifically to avoid bondholders getting taxpayer money to cover their bond losses....taxpayers should get their investment back first, and bondholders should not be allowed to collect any taxpayer money.
Remember, just like any other equity, buying bonds is a risk. They're not FDIC insured. You put in your money and take your chances. Just because some bondholders don't like losing doesn't entitle them to taxpayer money to cover their losses. How would you feel if I went to Vegas, lost a few million, and then demanded that you cover my losses. Same general idea. I don't feel like covering Oppenheimer's losses...along with the other bondholders.
Said bondholders ended up admitting they didn't have a leg to stand on with Chrysler and gave up. I want to see if they try a new trick with GM come June 1. I'm betting that everyone comes to an agreement except them...they'll hold out the longest, because they'll be hoping for a liquidation again.
Lemko doesn't have to. it will be here at the end of June. the 2010 Lacrosse will have a direct injected 3.6L engine. THAT'S not available on the Genesis. AWD is available on it, and NOT the Genesis.
RPO code PCZ will get you 19" machined alloy wheels and P245/40R19 tires, with the Magnehetorological shocks (continuously variable, real time dampening) out of the Vette. ALSO not available on the Genesis.
So, maybe you ought to rethink technologically advanced.
Having new gadgets installed doesn't make a car technologically more advanced just like that. However, those Vette shocks, now THAT'S advanced.
AWD is little more than a novelty, nothing new at all.
Said bondholders ended up admitting they didn't have a leg to stand on with Chrysler and gave up. I want to see if they try a new trick with GM come June 1. I'm betting that everyone comes to an agreement except them...they'll hold out the longest, because they'll be hoping for a liquidation again
The only problem is GM has much more debt, both secured and unsecured, than Chrysler. I haven't seen the breakdown of the bondholders but in Chrysler's case, the dissident bondholders were a small portion of the debt. With GM it could be a different story. We'll find out on June 1st.
Experts say GM bankruptcy almost inevitable; too much work left with too little time
GM (GM) lost money in the last quarter, a total of $6 billion. That it only lost that much is a testament to its successful cost control work. The company’s revenue dropped a breathtaking 47% to $22.4 bllion. It is a miracle that reduced expenses could even come close to matching that collapse.
The really bad news was from overseas.
Anyone who keeps track of the auto industry knew that GM would do poorly in North American and Europe. GM did not disappoint the pessimists. In North America, the company’s revenue fell by half and it market share dropped from 21.7% in the region last year to 17.9% this year. GM will not become profitable in the region, no matter what it cuts, if market share continues to fall.
In Europe, GM posted a sales drop of $4.6 billion to $5.3 billion. Market share slipped 9.6% to 8.9%.
The most distressing results came from GM’s usually reliable Latin American and Asia operations. Due to an increase of sales in China of 17%, GM’s Asia market share rose from 6.9% to 8%. making it the only bright spot on the globe.
In Latin America, where GM has been a dominant presence, the firm’s market share dropped modestly to 16.9% and sales were down $1.4 billion to $3.4 billion.
The Treasury may be facing a reevaluation of GM’s prospect with its earnings showing such a broad collapse abroad. Creditors who are trying to get $27 billion back from the company will now be less likely to want to swap that for commons shares. GM is in too much trouble.
What are the odds that the bondholders settle??
Little Bit O' Luck
Regards,
OW
While I agree that management, or Mis-management, is the reason GM is in trouble, combined with the pressure of the union to pay ridiculous salaries to people who aren't working, etc., I think prison time for either is absurd, and hope you weren't serious. If you are, then don't forget the entire board of directors who rubber-stamped all union contracts as well as mismanagement from Waggoner, et al.
Neil Roland
Automotive News
May 11, 2009 - 5:21 pm ET
"WASHINGTON -- General Motors plans to sell cars in the United States that it makes in China, starting in 2011. That could make GM the first major automaker to import Chinese cars to the U.S. market.
The car maker expects to sell about 17,335 of the China-made vehicles in the United States in 2011, and triple that number to 51,546 in 2014, a planning document circulated by GM among U.S. lawmakers shows.
The gains would come, the document says, as GM's total U.S. sales surge 50 percent in the next five years.
The plans are subject to change pending the outcome of negotiations with the UAW.
Many of these vehicles are likely to be small cars similar to the upcoming Chevy Spark, which will be built in South Korea, though the models will be different from any currently built in the United States by any automaker, an industry official said in an interview.
Even at the higher 2014 level, though, cars from China would still account for only 1.6 percent of GM's 3.1 million total expected sales in the U.S. that year, the 12-page document says.
The automaker is trying to meet a government-imposed June 1 deadline to restructure operations and cut over $40 billion in debt, or risk bankruptcy.
The UAW has criticized GM's restructuring plan because of increases envisioned by the plan in U.S. sales of cars made overseas.
'We are in dialogue with the UAW, and my view of a dialogue is that it is a good idea to have an open book on all the different subjects,' GM CEO Fritz Henderson said in a media conference call today. 'We have a philosophy of building where we sell, and not only do we think that is the right thing to do, but the most profitable thing to do historically.'
UAW officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
In a May 5 letter to senators, the UAW criticized GM plans to increase U.S. sales from other countries.
'GM should not be taking taxpayers' money simply to finance the outsourcing of jobs to other countries,' the letter from UAW legislative director Alan Reuther said.
The GM document also reveals plans to sharply increase sales of cars it makes in Mexico and South Korea while reducing the number made in Canada.
Mexico-made vehicles sold in the United States would jump from 317,763 in 2010 to 501,316 in 2014, according to the document.
South Korea-made vehicles sold in the United States would more than quadruple from 36,967 in 2010 to 157,126 in 2014.
On the other hand, Canada-made vehicles would fall from 431,708 in 2010 to 330,610 in 2014.
GM's U.S.-made vehicles would hold steady during the five-year period at about two-thirds of the total sold domestically.
Regards,
OW
Well, that settles it for me. No GM car until all bailout money returns, assuming GM will EVER return it.
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you :sick:
But on the OTHER hand, I'm way more impressed with how Ford has handled themselves of late, and the fact that they are doing it, (much better, it appears) without government bailout help, and I actually believe they may in fact, survive! I'd like to help them as well, and do own several Ford products at the moment, although I have owned a ton of GM products in the past as well.
I think Chrysler is over, although I own one at the moment, and would not bother to buy another one.
But frankly, my next purchase is slated to be a luxury car, to replace my Lexus, and although I'm considering a Lincoln or a Cadillac, odds are it will be another Lexus, which won't help either one, will it?
I didn't know you currently had a Chrysler. Which model do you have? I do still kinda like the idea of getting a slightly used Charger or 300. Or even a new one if they discount them enough. But logically I just keep talking myself out of it because I don't want to get back into a car payment. And when I make the plunge, there are better choices out there.
Well, the Intrepid is going to the mechanic tonight, because the oil pressure light has a slight flicker to it. Hopefully it's just a sending unit, sensor, or whatever. But if it's something truly catastrophic, that might be my excuse to get a new car.
However, a local used car lot has a 2008 Grand Marquis GS with a whopping 5500 miles on it, for $13,995 asking price. I find myself strangely attracted to it, even though I'm not old enough to drive it. :P
The GS is a pretty plain car. By my standards the LS seems pretty barren. It probably is your last chance to have a new big body-on-frame RWD V-8 car for a reasonable price. The Crown Vic is fleet-ony nowadays and rumor has it the Grand Marquis is going away too. The Lincoln Town Car has to be specially-ordered too.
Pickup trucks are starting to really look like a bargain, too. A friend of a friend of mine recently bought a new, leftover 2008 Silverado for around $13,500. Extended cab, 4wd, V-8. Not ultra-loaded, but not a stripper, either. I'm not sure which V-8 it had. Looked under the hood, and all I could tell was that it was either a 4.8 or 5.3. The emissions sticker didn't say which size it was. Anyway, $13,500 is about what my Granddad paid for my 1985 Silverado. Twenty Four years ago! :surprise:
I think even with all the discounts, it's still way too overpriced.
General Motors’ shares slid to their lowest level in more than 70 years on Tuesday amid increasingly loud signals that the Detroit carmaker is headed for bankruptcy protection within the next three weeks.
The shares were trading at $1.14 in late afternoon trading in New York, down more than a fifth, which gives GM a market value of just under $700m. By contrast, Toyota, which overtook GM last year as the world’s biggest carmaker by sales, is valued at $120bn.
:surprise:
that would be like me figuring out my personal net worth and asking for a loan that is 39 TIMES that amount!