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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    A Chinese ripoff of a Cadillac CTS!!! :confuse: :(:cry: :sick: :mad:

    image
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I dunno; I think there's more Mitsubishi Galant than CTS in there.

    image

    How sad is it for GM that the Chinese don't even want to make credible knockoffs of their cars?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    The third brake light, badge, chrome, and vertical lights are Caddyesque, yeah.

    That Mini is really shameful. This crap needs to result in sanctions. They need us more than we need them.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Cars are just one thing the Chinese ripoff. Google "Chinese Knockoffs" and anything from an Apple computer to Kentucky Fried Chicken is susceptible to a Chinese copycat.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Must be nice not having to adhere to basically any standards of corporate responsibility. It makes stuff cheap.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Google "Chinese Knockoffs" and anything from an Apple computer to Kentucky Fried Chicken is susceptible to a Chinese copycat.

    The interesting question is what's the real item and what's the ripoff if they both are made in China? :P
  • tjefftjeff Member Posts: 6
    The Chevy Camaro is absolutely awesome. Sharp from any angle. I saw several at the New York Auto Show in April, and you'd have to have oatmeal for blood (or be a foreign car owner) not to be stirred by the Camaro. Beautiful.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    So, GM, I sold a car for ya. Sorry it wasn't a new one, but in this economy, you take what you can get!

    You probably know I buy cars at the auctions for my friends and clients upon request - usually I just get them whatever it is they want, unless they specifically ask my opinion about a car. Then my experience and bias kicks in. Recently I have sold a lot of inadvertant Chryslers to people. Hey, it's what they want. Occasionally though, they will ask for a good buy, value and price, and I will recommend a GM car. They have poor resale, so you get them cheap second-hand, which can make them a teriffic used car value!!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I thought the last model E was nice looking. The only one that interests me is the E320 CDI and the 37 MPG out on the highway. GM does not have any highway cruiser to come close. That same car is rated 50.4 MPG in the UK which translates to 42 MPG US. Someone's rating system is screwed up. The EPA says 32 MPG highway. My friend that has homes here in San Diego and Dallas drives his 2005 E320 CDI back and forth several times per year. He gets consistent 37 MPG driving 80-90 MPH.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    So nothing at all to do with greedy executives, right?

    I don't know. Did they go on strike and disrupt the operation of the company when it finally started getting some credibility? Kind of like UAW going on strike at the only plants building vehicles anyone wanted last year.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    So nothing at all to do with greedy executives, right?

    I don't know. Did they go on strike and disrupt the operation of the company when it finally started getting some credibility? Kind of like UAW going on strike at the only plants building vehicles anyone wanted last year.


    No, they just designed and approved abortions like the Aveo, Cobalt, Impala, Caliber, etc. All the vehicles people didn't want. And then gave themselves raises because they were doing such good jobs.

    Then you have bondholders who will lobby for a taxpayer bailout to restructure, then throw a monkeywrench into said restructuring so that the company can liquidate and they can collect the taxpayer money.

    Nothing is ever as simple as one side wants it to be. Words to live by. :shades:
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    LOL, yup that's the one Lemko, the Geely Ge. The best thing about it is Rolls recognize it as Phantom's copycat in the auto show and the rep simply said: "We don't mind, and there's no need for further actions. Chinese can copy any Rolls-Royce they want, but they will never, never, ever come even close to the real one. And Rolls-Royce customers are smart enough to tell them apart." (translated from Chinese)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I thought you were referring to the Korean upper management being greedy. I fully agree that Wagoner and his den of thieves should all do time in Prison. Along with the UAW leaders. THEY ARE THE REASON GM is bankrupt.

    How you got such an idea about bond holders. I know they are taking a big risk with THEIR money. Why are they any less deserving in a bankruptcy? If not for the bondholders GM would have been gone long ago. GM borrowed $80 Billion to keep the sinking ship afloat. When the money was lent the law said they have first right in a bankruptcy. Why is that so bad? I am just against throwing out the Constitution on a whim. Call me old fashioned, when I borrow money from someone I feel obligated to pay it back. No matter what other people do. I am in deeper than I would like to be on the home I live in. I am not going to dump it on the bank. And I did not borrow more than I could afford. Time for GM to pay up or LIQUIDATE.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    What do you think are great looking late model cars, GM and otherwise?

    Good question. Mostly are otherwise too, though, LOL

    Non-Luxury:
    Nissan Rogue and Altima
    Honda Civic
    2010 Ford Fusion
    2009 Mazda6, CX7
    Chevy Camaro
    VW GTI

    Luxury:
    MB CLS (is it considered a late model?)
    Audi A5
    09 Infiniti FX
    Porsche Cayman

    These are, IMO, great looking cars out there for somewhat reasonable price (nothing above $100k, definitely).
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    How you got such an idea about bond holders. I know they are taking a big risk with THEIR money. Why are they any less deserving in a bankruptcy? If not for the bondholders GM would have been gone long ago.

    Because bondholders are sneaky conmen and are basically made up of the same personalities as Waggoner maybe? :shades:

    The whole point about the "bailout" money was to allow the companies to restructure, not to cover bond losses. If they do liquidate, bondholders should get no more than the company had in its coffers pre-bailout. The bailout loans were declared to be senior specifically to avoid bondholders getting taxpayer money to cover their bond losses....taxpayers should get their investment back first, and bondholders should not be allowed to collect any taxpayer money.

    Remember, just like any other equity, buying bonds is a risk. They're not FDIC insured. You put in your money and take your chances. Just because some bondholders don't like losing doesn't entitle them to taxpayer money to cover their losses. How would you feel if I went to Vegas, lost a few million, and then demanded that you cover my losses. Same general idea. I don't feel like covering Oppenheimer's losses...along with the other bondholders.

    Said bondholders ended up admitting they didn't have a leg to stand on with Chrysler and gave up. I want to see if they try a new trick with GM come June 1. I'm betting that everyone comes to an agreement except them...they'll hold out the longest, because they'll be hoping for a liquidation again.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Not at $80 grand it aint
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    "..... But techologically, I'd choose Genesis first. That is, unless Lemko manages to come up with technologically superior and better designed LaCrosse."

    Lemko doesn't have to. it will be here at the end of June. the 2010 Lacrosse will have a direct injected 3.6L engine. THAT'S not available on the Genesis. AWD is available on it, and NOT the Genesis.

    RPO code PCZ will get you 19" machined alloy wheels and P245/40R19 tires, with the Magnehetorological shocks (continuously variable, real time dampening) out of the Vette. ALSO not available on the Genesis.

    So, maybe you ought to rethink technologically advanced.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    I'll rethink it after I see it myself.

    Having new gadgets installed doesn't make a car technologically more advanced just like that. However, those Vette shocks, now THAT'S advanced.

    AWD is little more than a novelty, nothing new at all.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Technically the older LaCrosse CXS had the 3.6VVT engine in it a couple of years back.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    "....AWD is little more than a novelty, nothing new at all. " Same could be said for dual zone climate control (available in both) Buick has been offering that since '91 or 92.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Yes, it did. But that is the regular MPFI engine, and not the Direct injection version.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918

    Said bondholders ended up admitting they didn't have a leg to stand on with Chrysler and gave up. I want to see if they try a new trick with GM come June 1. I'm betting that everyone comes to an agreement except them...they'll hold out the longest, because they'll be hoping for a liquidation again


    The only problem is GM has much more debt, both secured and unsecured, than Chrysler. I haven't seen the breakdown of the bondholders but in Chrysler's case, the dissident bondholders were a small portion of the debt. With GM it could be a different story. We'll find out on June 1st.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    link title

    Experts say GM bankruptcy almost inevitable; too much work left with too little time
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Market share is lower than I estimated...whoops! :blush:

    GM (GM) lost money in the last quarter, a total of $6 billion. That it only lost that much is a testament to its successful cost control work. The company’s revenue dropped a breathtaking 47% to $22.4 bllion. It is a miracle that reduced expenses could even come close to matching that collapse.

    The really bad news was from overseas.

    Anyone who keeps track of the auto industry knew that GM would do poorly in North American and Europe. GM did not disappoint the pessimists. In North America, the company’s revenue fell by half and it market share dropped from 21.7% in the region last year to 17.9% this year. GM will not become profitable in the region, no matter what it cuts, if market share continues to fall.

    In Europe, GM posted a sales drop of $4.6 billion to $5.3 billion. Market share slipped 9.6% to 8.9%.

    The most distressing results came from GM’s usually reliable Latin American and Asia operations. Due to an increase of sales in China of 17%, GM’s Asia market share rose from 6.9% to 8%. making it the only bright spot on the globe.

    In Latin America, where GM has been a dominant presence, the firm’s market share dropped modestly to 16.9% and sales were down $1.4 billion to $3.4 billion.

    The Treasury may be facing a reevaluation of GM’s prospect with its earnings showing such a broad collapse abroad. Creditors who are trying to get $27 billion back from the company will now be less likely to want to swap that for commons shares. GM is in too much trouble.


    What are the odds that the bondholders settle??

    Little Bit O' Luck

    Regards,
    OW
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I fully agree that Wagoner and his den of thieves should all do time in Prison. Along with the UAW leaders. THEY ARE THE REASON GM is bankrupt.

    While I agree that management, or Mis-management, is the reason GM is in trouble, combined with the pressure of the union to pay ridiculous salaries to people who aren't working, etc., I think prison time for either is absurd, and hope you weren't serious. If you are, then don't forget the entire board of directors who rubber-stamped all union contracts as well as mismanagement from Waggoner, et al.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I include the board of directors in Wagoner's den of thieves. They have STOLEN from the stockholders. As you well know stockholders without very large blocks of stock have no real say in the operation. I expect a very high level of honesty from the elected BOD. While they probably did not do anything that most boards do, in my mind they are criminals. If the SEC was serious about protecting stockholders, which I doubt they are. There should be standards that eliminate sitting on multiple boards and electing each other to high positions. Of course this is as old as the concept of corporate law. Think about the crook FDR put in as the first director of the SEC. It has protected the good old boy club ever since. I find it sad that dishonest people can destroy an industry and the law does nothing. That includes the UAW leaders as well. Though to a lesser extent.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    GM plans to export China-made cars to U.S.

    Neil Roland
    Automotive News
    May 11, 2009 - 5:21 pm ET

    "WASHINGTON -- General Motors plans to sell cars in the United States that it makes in China, starting in 2011. That could make GM the first major automaker to import Chinese cars to the U.S. market.

    The car maker expects to sell about 17,335 of the China-made vehicles in the United States in 2011, and triple that number to 51,546 in 2014, a planning document circulated by GM among U.S. lawmakers shows.

    The gains would come, the document says, as GM's total U.S. sales surge 50 percent in the next five years.

    The plans are subject to change pending the outcome of negotiations with the UAW.

    Many of these vehicles are likely to be small cars similar to the upcoming Chevy Spark, which will be built in South Korea, though the models will be different from any currently built in the United States by any automaker, an industry official said in an interview.

    Even at the higher 2014 level, though, cars from China would still account for only 1.6 percent of GM's 3.1 million total expected sales in the U.S. that year, the 12-page document says.

    The automaker is trying to meet a government-imposed June 1 deadline to restructure operations and cut over $40 billion in debt, or risk bankruptcy.

    The UAW has criticized GM's restructuring plan because of increases envisioned by the plan in U.S. sales of cars made overseas.

    'We are in dialogue with the UAW, and my view of a dialogue is that it is a good idea to have an open book on all the different subjects,' GM CEO Fritz Henderson said in a media conference call today. 'We have a philosophy of building where we sell, and not only do we think that is the right thing to do, but the most profitable thing to do historically.'

    UAW officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

    In a May 5 letter to senators, the UAW criticized GM plans to increase U.S. sales from other countries.

    'GM should not be taking taxpayers' money simply to finance the outsourcing of jobs to other countries,' the letter from UAW legislative director Alan Reuther said.

    The GM document also reveals plans to sharply increase sales of cars it makes in Mexico and South Korea while reducing the number made in Canada.

    Mexico-made vehicles sold in the United States would jump from 317,763 in 2010 to 501,316 in 2014, according to the document.

    South Korea-made vehicles sold in the United States would more than quadruple from 36,967 in 2010 to 157,126 in 2014.

    On the other hand, Canada-made vehicles would fall from 431,708 in 2010 to 330,610 in 2014.

    GM's U.S.-made vehicles would hold steady during the five-year period at about two-thirds of the total sold domestically.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Welcome to Wal-Mart Autonation! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Well, Costco has an auto buying plan. And the Costco I shop at is Union. Walmart stores all have a vehicle service department. Just ask the ex UAW Walmart greeter where the GM department is.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    All those bailout money and they still want to import cars? Shamelessness really knows no boundaries.

    Well, that settles it for me. No GM car until all bailout money returns, assuming GM will EVER return it.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    link title

    Talk about biting the hand that feeds you :sick:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    GM needs to rent on a month to month about 3000 sq ft in a small strip mall to save some money. Get rid of all the engineers as they have not done a great job the last 30 years, the accountants have cheapened the cars to near worthless. So I guess all they need is the CEO and a secretary. They can sign all the bankruptcy papers and keep track of the liquidation sales. A 20 foot travel trailer could be parked out front for the UAW leaders to hang out. The big question is will the sale of the company return our tax dollars?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    On the one hand, I'd like to buy a GM car to support their efforts for recovery, although at the moment, those efforts are all over the place and not very impressive. Secondly, I actually do not believe they will recover, nor do I believe they will ever pay back their loans......but the Patriot in me would like them to survive and pay it back.

    But on the OTHER hand, I'm way more impressed with how Ford has handled themselves of late, and the fact that they are doing it, (much better, it appears) without government bailout help, and I actually believe they may in fact, survive! I'd like to help them as well, and do own several Ford products at the moment, although I have owned a ton of GM products in the past as well.

    I think Chrysler is over, although I own one at the moment, and would not bother to buy another one.

    But frankly, my next purchase is slated to be a luxury car, to replace my Lexus, and although I'm considering a Lincoln or a Cadillac, odds are it will be another Lexus, which won't help either one, will it?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I think Chrysler is over, although I own one at the moment, and would not bother to buy another one.

    I didn't know you currently had a Chrysler. Which model do you have? I do still kinda like the idea of getting a slightly used Charger or 300. Or even a new one if they discount them enough. But logically I just keep talking myself out of it because I don't want to get back into a car payment. And when I make the plunge, there are better choices out there.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I don't have it on my profile because my daughter drives it, but it's mine. It's an 07 PT Cruiser. Just turned 30,000 miles.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Get that G8 GT while you still can! If I knew for sure it was the end for GM, I'd buy the ULTIMATE Buick Lucerne CXS Super.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Get that G8 GT while you still can! If I knew for sure it was the end for GM, I'd buy the ULTIMATE Buick Lucerne CXS Super.

    Well, the Intrepid is going to the mechanic tonight, because the oil pressure light has a slight flicker to it. Hopefully it's just a sending unit, sensor, or whatever. But if it's something truly catastrophic, that might be my excuse to get a new car.

    However, a local used car lot has a 2008 Grand Marquis GS with a whopping 5500 miles on it, for $13,995 asking price. I find myself strangely attracted to it, even though I'm not old enough to drive it. :P
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    So Rocky, what do you think now that GM plans to import Chinese-made cars?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Hey! I resemble that remark!

    The GS is a pretty plain car. By my standards the LS seems pretty barren. It probably is your last chance to have a new big body-on-frame RWD V-8 car for a reasonable price. The Crown Vic is fleet-ony nowadays and rumor has it the Grand Marquis is going away too. The Lincoln Town Car has to be specially-ordered too.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Yeah, it's a fairly plain car, but for $13,995, seems like a good deal. It's dark blue with a gray interior. The only thing I really don't like about it are the hubcaps, these cheap, shiny plastic things with triangular cutouts around the outer part. If I had the car, I think I'd pull 'em off and just try to find some copcar hubcaps to put on it!

    Pickup trucks are starting to really look like a bargain, too. A friend of a friend of mine recently bought a new, leftover 2008 Silverado for around $13,500. Extended cab, 4wd, V-8. Not ultra-loaded, but not a stripper, either. I'm not sure which V-8 it had. Looked under the hood, and all I could tell was that it was either a 4.8 or 5.3. The emissions sticker didn't say which size it was. Anyway, $13,500 is about what my Granddad paid for my 1985 Silverado. Twenty Four years ago! :surprise:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The LS at least comes with alloys that look infinitely better. Those GS hubcaps look like some aftermarket crap you get at AutoZone. Funny, I was looking at a Grand Marquis in that color combination, except it was an LS. I bet a GS would look pretty wicked with cop car wheels.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,547
    No. Not that one andre~! Surely you can do better....
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Andre is way too smart with his money to consider what I think he should get, but I picture him in a Chrysler 300-C SRT8 with the 6.1 litre Hemi, a Dodge Charger SRT8 or a Pontiac G8 GXP.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,547
    Yes, lemko, that's more like it. But what about a CTS?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Andre's more a Mopar-Poncho fan from what I can tell. I like the CTS, but it's a bit too small for my tastes.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    If it was 20K brand new to start, 30K fully loaded and upgraded with all the bells and whistles.

    I think even with all the discounts, it's still way too overpriced.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    link title

    General Motors’ shares slid to their lowest level in more than 70 years on Tuesday amid increasingly loud signals that the Detroit carmaker is headed for bankruptcy protection within the next three weeks.

    The shares were trading at $1.14 in late afternoon trading in New York, down more than a fifth, which gives GM a market value of just under $700m. By contrast, Toyota, which overtook GM last year as the world’s biggest carmaker by sales, is valued at $120bn.


    :surprise:
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    So can someone answer why our Government is giving a typical medium sized 600 to 700 million dollar business 27 BILLION dollars in loans?

    that would be like me figuring out my personal net worth and asking for a loan that is 39 TIMES that amount!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Technically it's worth a bit more than that as it only has about 20% of its stock available for trading.
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