".....Inside, the badge engineering is markedly more apparent with what looks like an instrument panel, center console, and steering wheel directly ported over from the recently revealed 2010 Opel Astra. In all likelihood, the Buick version will be sold almost exclusively in the Chinese market and, although it would be built along side the Cruze at GM's Lordstown, OH plant, it's doubtful that the compact Buick will ever be sold in the States."
Do you believe it WON'T? They'll be building it here. They'll have former P-B-GMC dealers screaming for a more "entry level" car to sell alongside the expensive stuff, and *BOOM* welcome to the Pontiacization of Buick.
Direct from Korea for Lemko's driving pleasure, the new Bueo. :shades:
Per several sources familiar with GM’s plan, Buick’s third crossover model will be based on the same architecture that will underpin the next-generation Chevrolet Aveo – likely to be renamed the Viva or Agile. With a footprint no bigger than Ford’s upcoming Fiesta small car, the baby Buick CUV will offer seating for five but could give Buick a legitimate alternative to MINI’s upcoming CUV.
If GM does this, then they truly have no sense of what a Buick should be. It's bad enough that they're already palming off a tarted-up Equinox as a Caddy SRX!
".....Do you believe it WON'T? They'll be building it here."
I won't say the Buick "Astra" won't be sold here. There are cafe regulations to consider. Point is, that assembly plant in China is for the Chinese market. But they WILL export that "Astra" from here, to there. Now that the 5 year grace period is over for China (after joining the WTO), more and more unfair trade practice grievences are being levied against the Chinese, and they are LOSING. They will have to allow foreign companies to do business there w/o making everything there.
Funny you should mention that. I saw an odd yellow car that looked like an Aveo but wasn't. Then, I realized it was a G3 when I saw the Pontiac arrowhead on it.
Buick’s third crossover model will be based on the same architecture that will underpin the next-generation Chevrolet Aveo – likely to be renamed the Viva or Agile.
Knowing GM's fondness for blue collar fire breathing names, how about the "Firerunt" or "Flamet"? :shades:
True. But if they're building it here, that smells to me that they're planning on selling it here sometime. And CAFE is another one of the reasons GM has always been happy to quickly rebadge a Chevy as something else.
It's too much of a habit for them, and I've seen nothing yet to convince me that they've been broken of that habit. Get rid of the entire Buick nameplate and I'd still expect to see a Cadillac Aveo, and probably a GMC one too.
Excitement if one happens to be a 62 year-old woman. My Mom has an Aveo and she likes it well enough, but it hardly does anything for me. If I can say anything good about it, it is suprisingly roomy for such a tiny car.
Fairly speaking I actually kinda like the instrument panel and the way the center stack's neatly arranged. The vertical vents ruined everything though, and it still looks too obviously Equinox.
I'm not sure the Chinese market Buick will be produced in US, not with the new regulations (and some upcoming ones) that will pretty much demand that certain productions moved to China under China's standards and China's pricing policy to remain in business in the country.
"......True. But if they're building it here, that smells to me that they're planning on selling it here sometime."
Fair enough. I see one caveat; If the baby Buick is based on the Astra, like the one sold in Europe (which I believe the Saturn Astra is based on), as opposed to the Cruze (even though it may be the same platform, they may have different styling, as opposed to a blatant rebadge), it may be a different story. One reason the Saturn didn't sell was it's high price ($18-22K). Supposedly, this car is well received in Europe.
Now, $22 grand for a baby Saturn may be expensive, but for a baby Buick, optioned up properly, it's spot on. Size wise, it is comparable to the BMW 1 series, and while the "1" is only available as a coupe or 'vert, the Buick could offer a sporty sedan for that category. The current Astra weighs 2900 lbs, while the 1 and Audi A3 weigh 3200 lbs.
I know you may be thinking, what about Caddy, but the Astra is smaller than the 3 series or the A4. A BLS Caddy could be sized to compete with them.
".....I'm not sure the Chinese market Buick will be produced in US, not with the new regulations (and some upcoming ones) that will pretty much demand that certain productions moved to China under China's standards and China's pricing policy to remain in business in the country. "
If the baby Buick is based on the Astra, like the one sold in Europe (which I believe the Saturn Astra is based on), as opposed to the Cruze (even though it may be the same platform, they may have different styling, as opposed to a blatant rebadge),
I believe the Cruze is the next generation platform upon which the current Astra is based.
One reason the Saturn didn't sell was it's high price ($18-22K). Supposedly, this car is well received in Europe.
It's also important to remember that the Astra was assembled in Belguim, and the strength of the Euro to the dollar forced GM to price it that high. If the baby Buick is built in the US, then they should be able to add more content for the price.
Size wise, it is comparable to the BMW 1 series
While that may be true dimensionally, I don't think that it's fair (or right) to compare the two. The BMW is RWD, whereas the Cruze is FWD (might AWD be an option? I can't remember). The BMW only comes with 6 cylinder engines in the US, while the Cruze will only have 4 bangers (albeit turbo'd).
Really, what I see is that the Buick Cruze would compete against something like the Acura TSX or Volvo S40 - small, premium cars that get decent mileage and offer lots of features for the money.
There's only one problem with WTO: China DOESN'T listen to them.
Add the fact that Cruze is also being built in China, I still get the impression that the Buick variant, whatever it's called, will be produced in China.
It'll be really bad for GM if the Chinese gov. says: you will produce the car here or we won't allow it to be sold here.
China is now the big dog on the block and they own a big share of our debt. They decide to dump it and our currency collapses like a castle made of cards. We have created the situation and will pay the price. Look for cars coming from China to be sold on GM lots within a couple years.
90% of our cars are now made in China or other offshore places if you actually trace the components back to their origin. A good example of this is, say, your power door locks. They might be "made in the U.S." but that really is "assembled and put together from a ton of cheap pieces and bits".
It's all made in China anyways, so what's the big deal?
This is kind of like buying an iPod. When they first came out, the knockoffs were noticeably poorer quality. But now the same thing is made down the street in the same city in China(or often in the same factory).
It's all the same crud no matter who's label is on it, so why not get the generic version and save a lot of money?
Not bad at all. The issue is giving up manufacturing to other countries. For some reason the D3 thought they could compete building cars at $75 per hour for non skilled labor. They have found out the hard way that people in other countries can build equal quality for a lot less money. We may not be able to compete until our labor comes down to meet the competition. I doubt there is a car on the planet that does not have a lot of Chinese parts.
When they first came out, the knockoffs were noticeably poorer quality. But now the same thing is made down the street in the same city in China(or often in the same factory).
Right, just like GM...quality stinks on the new models until they begin to make them correctly so they don't break, usually at the end of year 2. If GM can do it, so can China.
The issue is giving up manufacturing to other countries. For some reason the D3 thought they could compete building cars at $75 per hour for non skilled labor. They have found out the hard way that people in other countries can build equal quality for a lot less money.
Yes, this of course was the problem with that type of salary range. It was never sustainable. So what you will see is that in 15-20 years, everything will be made in China or India and it will be half the cost. The same thing happened to our electronics industry and, well, we just have to swallow our pride here as well, since the consumer will always buy the cheaper foreign option more often than the domestic one.
I do find it amazing that every other nation in the world practices protectionism with its industries but somehow that is seen as evil and bad for the U.S. Well, we just lost another industry due to this sort of idiocy.
It's really not QUITE that simple...usually due to things like automation, the one $50/hr worker here can do the work of ten $10/hr workers somewhere else that might not have the automation technology in place. That's all it would take, since you eliminate the cost of shipping. With China and India you have them offering perks and tax breaks that the US is no longer willing to offer, plus other out and out bribes. :shades:
Of course, notice I say $50/hr and not $75. And then there's the dumb UAW rules about not allowing automation, which is one of the reasons non-UAW shops for other manufacturers here can pay similar salaries (or almost anyway) and make a profit: they need fewer workers.
You're right about the protectionism though. Hypocritical, isn't it?
Our protectionism is very hit and miss. For example the Chicken tax to keep out foreign built PU trucks was specifically put in place to protect the D3. It would be nice to have a level playing field if we ever figure out where level is.
The rules to block automation may be the biggest deterrent to keeping jobs in the USA. The new state of the art Ford plant in Brazil could have been built in Michigan if not for the UAW.
I think the problem lies in the very base of the American policies itself, which pretty much bans most federal protectionisms in any form. The cold truth is America turned itself into the state it's in right now, it's nobody's fault, you reap what you sow.
Will China care if there's less jobs in US because it forces companies to produce there? Heck no. GM's in a pinch, will it sacrifice the Chinese market to create jobs in US? I honestly doubt it, the Chinese market is too big to leave.
I think the problem lies in the very base of the American policies itself, which pretty much bans most federal protectionisms in any form.
Hey they got around it for Big Ag farm subsidies, they can get around it for anything else if they really want to. Nothing wrong with some sort of reciprocity law, which would probably even be OK under the WTO.
The rules to block automation may be the biggest deterrent to keeping jobs in the USA. The new state of the art Ford plant in Brazil could have been built in Michigan if not for the UAW.
That's a key problem. If we can be more clever we can at least compete with greater efficiency. However when stupid union rules keep us from doing the things we need to do to stay competitive, the jobs will leave. It's like the ostrich (UAW) burying its head in the sand so that it doesn't have to see the danger! That is not going to solve the problem. If the unions would give up their idealism and get realistic we might have a chance. They haven't shown they are that smart. So another industry departs. It seems that the foreign nameplates are still building cars competitively in this country.
A small but true tale from a place I worked in as a Mfg. Engineer, 20 years ago:
There was a vat of liquid which the operator had to slowly add acid to, to bring the pH to 7. If he added too quickly or too much the material suspended in the liquid would drop to the bottom of the tank. This took about 30min/shift.
So I justified thru labor savings to buy a controller that read the pH and when it wasn't right it would start a small pump and drip the acid in the vat, and then of course stop the pump.
The operator loved this! Now instead of standing there with the beaker adding acid, he could stand near the pump and watch it run, watching the pH on the meter and say to his supervisor and me "boy that works slick". He did this just about every day. Never got any extra work out of him, he was used to doing certain things and that was it! In fact his job description probably precluded him from going to some other work-station and helping out, because that might negate the overtime at that other work-station.
Unless that was the only job I could get, I would never want to work in a U.S. union-plant with these sorts of philosophies. That sort of stuff doesn't fly when competing against workers around the world, who are glad to have a job instead of starving on the street.
This is a bit off topic, but a reply to plekto's post re. the iPod... all Apple products, including the MacBooks, iPod, iPhone, etc. are made in mainland China, primarily by either Foxconn (the largest electronics contract manufacturer in the world) which also manufactures their own computer motherboards (and all Intel motherboards), cases, cables, etc. or Asus. Apple itself manufactures nothing - they are a design and marketing company.
Correct. So other than the software being a little different and a label, the knockoff is actually just as good quality wise. For $40-$50, no less. Since these things last about as long as their battery(there's no point in replacing it since it's almost impossible to do so anyways), you use it then toss it a couple of years later.
What's happened is that "name brand" is now "generic" with a fancy label pasted on it.
They should go get Lee Iacocca and summarily fire every single member of GM's senior management.
The outcome of this whole thing is already certain: the government will lower and lower its goals for GM as sales continue to slide until finally they divest having lost every penny that was invested. The government wonks will make a lot of sound and fury but in the end the "czars" will move on to other things, and the fat cats at GM will become firmly re-ensconced.
Buick will continue to be the millstone around GM's neck that torpedoes the reinvention of Cadillac, and production will continue to move offshore until GM finally bites the bullet and its headquarters are established in Beijing.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Uh, sure. Let's see how long it will be before they bite us back and start discussing the payments of our (overdue) debt to them. White house is all bark now, for obvious reasons... :sick:
Whitacre used to be at ATT. That really gives confidence.
So what. Ford CEO was at Boeing and is now doing good job at Ford.
Whitacre had most of his career at Southwestern Bell, which later changed name to SBC. In his later tenure at SBC, he was instrumental in buying other telcos including AT&T. When SBC bought AT&T they dropped SBC name and took on AT&T for name recognition.
Telecom equipment, software, management of network far more complex than auto manufacturing. Whitacre oversaw operations very effectively and built SBC into current giant AT&T.
I don't think anyone with common sense expected to be "repaid". It's like lending money to a lazy, good-for-nothing relative; you're NEVER going to get the money back and would have been better off flushing it down the toilet. Or better yet, keeping the money and telling them to take a hike & suffer for their ill-actions.
It also looks as though the "new" GM may be on the hunt for a new CFO.
The 3.0L actually consumes more fuel than the 3.6L, which ruins the whole purpose of offering a smaller engine. This makes the new 3.0L a FAILURE and a complete rip off in my book.
If GM wanted a 3.6L-derived engine that makes sense, it should have enlarged the engine to 3.8L, and offered it as a successor to the venerable pushrod 3.8L engine, but with 100 more horses. Such engine would have been great for Buicks, Impalas and SUV's.
Well with all our tax-money GM is now able to offer the use of their vehicles for 60-days for free!
I guess I'll get in-line for my free Corvette trial. I won't need to haggle over price, as I don't intend to keep it! I'll drive it up until I need to register it and drop it back off at the dealers. Of course the dealer will have to resell it at thousands below the price of a new one, since it has a few thousand miles on it. So maybe the day after I would negotiate a low-price and buy it!
Sounds like an expensive plan for the taxpayer to move GM-metal. :sick:
It's not the quality of your cars, it's the value. Quality is part of value. But your vehicles have no value, because like a crack addict, you are addicted to car rental companies. You cannot keep your CAFE standards up without selling them boatloads of cars to average out your CAFE number from the crap you sell. And you cannot keep the lines moving and people employed unless you have something to sell to car rental companies?
Honda won't sell to car rental companies. If they do, they pay retail price to Honda. That's why if I buy a Honda, I get value. I get a car that is at worst the same quality as your car, but I don't lose as much on my financial investment. That way, when life circumstances change, I am not stuck in a vehicle I cannot afford to get out of without losing tons of money.
I really don't care how great you think you can make your cars or what you think our gap is between perception and reality, but if I want 70% of the MSRP for my car in 3 years and you offer me 40% of the MSRP, whatever couple of bucks I saved by going GM is lost by not going Honda.
You need to be like Honda and make an entire fleet of cars that are fuel efficient. Then you need to sell them to car rental agencies for the same price I pay for the car so that they aren't flooding the market with cheap, late-model GM cars. Why are we bailing you out if you keep making the same mistakes? Why would I buy new from you when if I really wanted your car, I could just buy it from Avis and save a ton of money?
Because the new CEO thinks he is selling cell phones.
Of course, you hit the bullseye. Even as C4C showed, the Lions Share went to companies that sell value and quality as a package. GM can't cut it.
I estimate it would take at least 4 years for the changes to take effect that would result in decent products that offer a total value proposition and top quality that doesn't depreciate off a cliff in 3 years.
I also think they are not geared to deliver at this time as a company. Too much junk in the trunk! :surprise:
I have had a Buick Park Avenue and Cadillac Brougham for 20+ years without a problem. My girlfriend's wife's 2005 Buick LaCrosse has yet to experience an unscheduled maintenance event. My 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance is as solid as a rock and as reliable as tomorrow's sunrise. I need not look elsewhere for all my automotive wants and needs. The Buick and Cadillac divisions fulfill all my automotive wants and needs in spades. Thank you, GM! You have done extremely well by me! I'm definitely interested in a new Buick LaCrosse as my next purchase!
Comments
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/22/spy-shots-buick-getting-its-own-cruze-variant- /
Notice the statement:
".....Inside, the badge engineering is markedly more apparent with what looks like an instrument panel, center console, and steering wheel directly ported over from the recently revealed 2010 Opel Astra. In all likelihood, the Buick version will be sold almost exclusively in the Chinese market and, although it would be built along side the Cruze at GM's Lordstown, OH plant, it's doubtful that the compact Buick will ever be sold in the States."
Per several sources familiar with GM’s plan, Buick’s third crossover model will be based on the same architecture that will underpin the next-generation Chevrolet Aveo – likely to be renamed the Viva or Agile. With a footprint no bigger than Ford’s upcoming Fiesta small car, the baby Buick CUV will offer seating for five but could give Buick a legitimate alternative to MINI’s upcoming CUV.
Looks a lot like a Chevy interior....perhaps Buick can use a Chinese version.
Regards,
OW
I won't say the Buick "Astra" won't be sold here. There are cafe regulations to consider. Point is, that assembly plant in China is for the Chinese market. But they WILL export that "Astra" from here, to there. Now that the 5 year grace period is over for China (after joining the WTO), more and more unfair trade practice grievences are being levied against the Chinese, and they are LOSING. They will have to allow foreign companies to do business there w/o making everything there.
No, looks like the same bad design school crap as everyone else.
They do build excitement, you know. :P
Knowing GM's fondness for blue collar fire breathing names, how about the "Firerunt" or "Flamet"? :shades:
It's too much of a habit for them, and I've seen nothing yet to convince me that they've been broken of that habit. Get rid of the entire Buick nameplate and I'd still expect to see a Cadillac Aveo, and probably a GMC one too.
This is the reputation GM has earned.
I'm not sure the Chinese market Buick will be produced in US, not with the new regulations (and some upcoming ones) that will pretty much demand that certain productions moved to China under China's standards and China's pricing policy to remain in business in the country.
Fair enough. I see one caveat; If the baby Buick is based on the Astra, like the one sold in Europe (which I believe the Saturn Astra is based on), as opposed to the Cruze (even though it may be the same platform, they may have different styling, as opposed to a blatant rebadge), it may be a different story. One reason the Saturn didn't sell was it's high price ($18-22K). Supposedly, this car is well received in Europe.
Now, $22 grand for a baby Saturn may be expensive, but for a baby Buick, optioned up properly, it's spot on. Size wise, it is comparable to the BMW 1 series, and while the "1" is only available as a coupe or 'vert, the Buick could offer a sporty sedan for that category. The current Astra weighs 2900 lbs, while the 1 and Audi A3 weigh 3200 lbs.
I know you may be thinking, what about Caddy, but the Astra is smaller than the 3 series or the A4. A BLS Caddy could be sized to compete with them.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/22/spy-shots-buick-getting-its-own-cruze-variant- /
The WTO is ruling against China and their trade policies, opening the door for more exports into China.
GM already exports the Enclave to China.
I believe the Cruze is the next generation platform upon which the current Astra is based.
One reason the Saturn didn't sell was it's high price ($18-22K). Supposedly, this car is well received in Europe.
It's also important to remember that the Astra was assembled in Belguim, and the strength of the Euro to the dollar forced GM to price it that high. If the baby Buick is built in the US, then they should be able to add more content for the price.
Size wise, it is comparable to the BMW 1 series
While that may be true dimensionally, I don't think that it's fair (or right) to compare the two. The BMW is RWD, whereas the Cruze is FWD (might AWD be an option? I can't remember). The BMW only comes with 6 cylinder engines in the US, while the Cruze will only have 4 bangers (albeit turbo'd).
Really, what I see is that the Buick Cruze would compete against something like the Acura TSX or Volvo S40 - small, premium cars that get decent mileage and offer lots of features for the money.
Add the fact that Cruze is also being built in China, I still get the impression that the Buick variant, whatever it's called, will be produced in China.
It'll be really bad for GM if the Chinese gov. says: you will produce the car here or we won't allow it to be sold here.
90% of our cars are now made in China or other offshore places if you actually trace the components back to their origin. A good example of this is, say, your power door locks. They might be "made in the U.S." but that really is "assembled and put together from a ton of cheap pieces and bits".
It's all made in China anyways, so what's the big deal?
This is kind of like buying an iPod. When they first came out, the knockoffs were noticeably poorer quality. But now the same thing is made down the street in the same city in China(or often in the same factory).
It's all the same crud no matter who's label is on it, so why not get the generic version and save a lot of money?
Right, just like GM...quality stinks on the new models until they begin to make them correctly so they don't break, usually at the end of year 2. If GM can do it, so can China.
Regards,
OW
Yes, this of course was the problem with that type of salary range. It was never sustainable. So what you will see is that in 15-20 years, everything will be made in China or India and it will be half the cost. The same thing happened to our electronics industry and, well, we just have to swallow our pride here as well, since the consumer will always buy the cheaper foreign option more often than the domestic one.
I do find it amazing that every other nation in the world practices protectionism with its industries but somehow that is seen as evil and bad for the U.S. Well, we just lost another industry due to this sort of idiocy.
Of course, notice I say $50/hr and not $75. And then there's the dumb UAW rules about not allowing automation, which is one of the reasons non-UAW shops for other manufacturers here can pay similar salaries (or almost anyway) and make a profit: they need fewer workers.
You're right about the protectionism though. Hypocritical, isn't it?
The rules to block automation may be the biggest deterrent to keeping jobs in the USA. The new state of the art Ford plant in Brazil could have been built in Michigan if not for the UAW.
Will China care if there's less jobs in US because it forces companies to produce there? Heck no. GM's in a pinch, will it sacrifice the Chinese market to create jobs in US? I honestly doubt it, the Chinese market is too big to leave.
Hey they got around it for Big Ag farm subsidies, they can get around it for anything else if they really want to. Nothing wrong with some sort of reciprocity law, which would probably even be OK under the WTO.
That's a key problem. If we can be more clever we can at least compete with greater efficiency. However when stupid union rules keep us from doing the things we need to do to stay competitive, the jobs will leave. It's like the ostrich (UAW) burying its head in the sand so that it doesn't have to see the danger! That is not going to solve the problem. If the unions would give up their idealism and get realistic we might have a chance. They haven't shown they are that smart. So another industry departs. It seems that the foreign nameplates are still building cars competitively in this country.
There was a vat of liquid which the operator had to slowly add acid to, to bring the pH to 7. If he added too quickly or too much the material suspended in the liquid would drop to the bottom of the tank. This took about 30min/shift.
So I justified thru labor savings to buy a controller that read the pH and when it wasn't right it would start a small pump and drip the acid in the vat, and then of course stop the pump.
The operator loved this! Now instead of standing there with the beaker adding acid, he could stand near the pump and watch it run, watching the pH on the meter and say to his supervisor and me "boy that works slick". He did this just about every day. Never got any extra work out of him, he was used to doing certain things and that was it! In fact his job description probably precluded him from going to some other work-station and helping out, because that might negate the overtime at that other work-station.
Unless that was the only job I could get, I would never want to work in a U.S. union-plant with these sorts of philosophies. That sort of stuff doesn't fly when competing against workers around the world, who are glad to have a job instead of starving on the street.
Guilty until proven Innocent.
Regards,
OW
What's happened is that "name brand" is now "generic" with a fancy label pasted on it.
It'll happen to cars as well.
Whitacre used to be at ATT. That really gives confidence. Have you watch the stock price of ATT over the couple of decades.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Regards,
OW
Well, they are now:
http://www.ustr.gov/about-us/press-office/press-releases/2009/august/ambassador-- kirk-comments-regarding-china-and-auto-p
They should go get Lee Iacocca and summarily fire every single member of GM's senior management.
The outcome of this whole thing is already certain: the government will lower and lower its goals for GM as sales continue to slide until finally they divest having lost every penny that was invested. The government wonks will make a lot of sound and fury but in the end the "czars" will move on to other things, and the fat cats at GM will become firmly re-ensconced.
Buick will continue to be the millstone around GM's neck that torpedoes the reinvention of Cadillac, and production will continue to move offshore until GM finally bites the bullet and its headquarters are established in Beijing.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Treasury Department officials have acknowledged that most of the $23 billion provided by the Bush administration is likely to be lost.
If people stay loyal to GM or C now, some major screws are loose! :mad:
Regards,
OW
http://www.ustr.gov/about-us/press-office/press-releases/2009/august/ambassador-- - kirk-comments-regarding-china-and-auto-p
Uh, sure. Let's see how long it will be before they bite us back and start discussing the payments of our (overdue) debt to them. White house is all bark now, for obvious reasons... :sick:
So what. Ford CEO was at Boeing and is now doing good job at Ford.
Whitacre had most of his career at Southwestern Bell, which later changed name to SBC. In his later tenure at SBC, he was instrumental in buying other telcos including AT&T. When SBC bought AT&T they dropped SBC name and took on AT&T for name recognition.
Telecom equipment, software, management of network far more complex than auto manufacturing. Whitacre oversaw operations very effectively and built SBC into current giant AT&T.
It also looks as though the "new" GM may be on the hunt for a new CFO.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
The 3.0L actually consumes more fuel than the 3.6L, which ruins the whole purpose of offering a smaller engine. This makes the new 3.0L a FAILURE and a complete rip off in my book.
If GM wanted a 3.6L-derived engine that makes sense, it should have enlarged the engine to 3.8L, and offered it as a successor to the venerable pushrod 3.8L engine, but with 100 more horses. Such engine would have been great for Buicks, Impalas and SUV's.
I guess I'll get in-line for my free Corvette trial. I won't need to haggle over price, as I don't intend to keep it! I'll drive it up until I need to register it and drop it back off at the dealers. Of course the dealer will have to resell it at thousands below the price of a new one, since it has a few thousand miles on it. So maybe the day after I would negotiate a low-price and buy it!
Sounds like an expensive plan for the taxpayer to move GM-metal. :sick:
Might as well try a Corvette or a CTS-V and return it :P and then it's like you said, negotiate for a low low price...
The problem is, whether we like it or not our tax money is the one paying, so might as well go for it, right? :shades:
Regards,
OW
It's not the quality of your cars, it's the value. Quality is part of value. But your vehicles have no value, because like a crack addict, you are addicted to car rental companies. You cannot keep your CAFE standards up without selling them boatloads of cars to average out your CAFE number from the crap you sell. And you cannot keep the lines moving and people employed unless you have something to sell to car rental companies?
Honda won't sell to car rental companies. If they do, they pay retail price to Honda. That's why if I buy a Honda, I get value. I get a car that is at worst the same quality as your car, but I don't lose as much on my financial investment. That way, when life circumstances change, I am not stuck in a vehicle I cannot afford to get out of without losing tons of money.
I really don't care how great you think you can make your cars or what you think our gap is between perception and reality, but if I want 70% of the MSRP for my car in 3 years and you offer me 40% of the MSRP, whatever couple of bucks I saved by going GM is lost by not going Honda.
You need to be like Honda and make an entire fleet of cars that are fuel efficient. Then you need to sell them to car rental agencies for the same price I pay for the car so that they aren't flooding the market with cheap, late-model GM cars. Why are we bailing you out if you keep making the same mistakes? Why would I buy new from you when if I really wanted your car, I could just buy it from Avis and save a ton of money?
Of course, you hit the bullseye. Even as C4C showed, the Lions Share went to companies that sell value and quality as a package. GM can't cut it.
I estimate it would take at least 4 years for the changes to take effect that would result in decent products that offer a total value proposition and top quality that doesn't depreciate off a cliff in 3 years.
I also think they are not geared to deliver at this time as a company. Too much junk in the trunk! :surprise:
Regards,
OW
I have had a Buick Park Avenue and Cadillac Brougham for 20+ years without a problem. My
girlfriend'swife's 2005 Buick LaCrosse has yet to experience an unscheduled maintenance event. My 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance is as solid as a rock and as reliable as tomorrow's sunrise. I need not look elsewhere for all my automotive wants and needs. The Buick and Cadillac divisions fulfill all my automotive wants and needs in spades. Thank you, GM! You have done extremely well by me! I'm definitely interested in a new Buick LaCrosse as my next purchase!girlfriend'swife's 2005 Buick LaCrosse has yet to experience an unscheduled maintenance event.OK. forget the rest of the post. Do tell....