It was 11 years in the making. I told grbeck and andre1969 back when we went to Macungie. I guess I'm making it public today. We got married yesterday.
My extended cab 4.3L gets better mpg than my 2.2L reg cab. 90 k mi on '99 Sonoma auto vs new '00 S-10 auto. The V6 engine with twice the torque is geared lower and gets better city and hwy mileage in spite of 600 lbs of engine and cab added. Never took the S-10 out of the area and never saw 22 mpg from a tank of gas in it. Bought the Sonoma in Fla and got 25.5 mpg driving it back to IN.
3800's commonly beat 3100's and 3300's in mpg in mid 90's cars, even when the 3800 car was heavier. Nothing new here.
Congratulations, Lemko! Hopefully the wife will still let you get away for the car shows! I'm sure after 11 years though, she fully understands your automotive passions!
First off, Congrats. Now please hand over your pants and give them to your wife... :P Oh, and your money and interior of your house and your taste in clothes and...
*** Back to the discussion ***
3800's commonly beat 3100's and 3300's in mpg in mid 90's cars, even when the 3800 car was heavier. Nothing new here.
That's because it was essentially a v6 diesel at highway speeds. Smaller engines require more rpms to keep moving without lugging the engine, which immediately affects fuel economy.
I was in Orlando on a business trip two weeks ago, and Hertz had dozens of Civics and Accords on their lot, and by the luck of the draw, I got an Accord. I sincerely doubt Hertz paid MSRP on any of the Hondas. Hertz doesn't pay list for anything! Honda has fleet prices too, they just prefer to keep that info under wraps.
Nooo- you're not taking her on the honeymoon in that brown turd Montego wagon you posted! Oh well, time to figure the income tax ramifications. Congrats.
Back on topic: Cadillac DTS and Buick LaCrosse are among the least problematic GM products. The only question is: how can a few models cover for the other models' mess?
That's all.
PS: OW, now's a good time to prepare a purchase for a "very much like new" Corvette, don't you think? 2000 miles, 2 months old, $10k below new price
If you look at a large dealer's website like Kerbeck, you'll see you can get a brand new Vette after discount for about $40K + change.
If you're going to get one used after someone returns it, remember that that person may not have treated it as nicely as someone who planned on keeping it a few years.
I'll just take a ZR-1 for the free period and return it.
Could it be true? I doubt it. I'm sure GM's 60 day trial will be riddled with as many fine print loopholes as Chrysler's "lifetime" warranty gimmick was.
Also, Chrysler's fake warranty didn't cover their "fun" vehicles, so I doubt GM will include anything with over 300HP in their 60 day trial gimmick.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
what fine print is available on the website, and it doesn't exclude any specific models. It just says all 2009 or 2010 Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick, or GMC vehicles, excluding medium-duty. So, no big trucks, but everything else seems to be there.
I am surprised, but maybe you CAN get a Z06 on this program. Of course, you would have to qualify for financing on such an expensive vehicle, and make at least 1 payment. Then when you bring it back, you have to wait to get reimbursed for that 1 payment you made, and I bet you lose the interest portion of the payment.
And of course program rules say you can't have your trade-in back if there was one, and if you were upside down on it you owe the dealership the upside down portion.
I hve to say, there isn't one thing at GM that I would want to test drive right now, even WITH the guarantee. I'm not a big-car guy, so not very interested in the Lacrosse, and the Malibu I have already driven (and been underwhelmed). They need more, better, cars (other than full-size models). Same problem Toyota currently has.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The fine print leaves a lot to be desired. There are tons of loopholes and conditions where GM could take advantage of consumers and screw them over.
You also have registrations and document fees which are nonrefundable. Insurance for 2 months will likely cost you 4 months worth after cancelling. Same with registration with the CA DMV; you pay more when you cancel.
Also, if you rearend me and I lose my eligibility, then your insurance company has to buyback the vehicle to make me whole! LOL, this is hilarious. Also, the program makes you pay $500 more for the same vehicle than everyone else that opts out of this farce of a program. So if I was going to try and take advantage, I'd:
1) get a CTS-V or Z06 2) pay in full in cash 3) self-insure with $50K bond 4) have a good lawyer ready when GM decides to screw everyone
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
There's a lot of stretching trying to find things wrong with the program.
Obviously dealer fees aren't refundable. License plates are usable on your next car so the cost of plates and registration are on you. Same for title costs. Sales tax would come back from your state if law allows. If the dealer can refund it they do; if not you apply to the state.
It's a great idea to shut up some of the complainers always trying to put down GM products: take one you like and try it for 30+ days. If another car company would have come up with this, I suspect we wouldn't be hearing the kvetching trying to turn it negative.
No, I think you misunderstand this program, it's not like a lemon buyback where you get all the fees back.
It appears to be a simple full-price refund of the vehicle's price itself. But any fees from the dealer will be on the buyer, as will any negative equity in the trade-in and the interest portion of the car payment you will be required to make. Not to mention, the plates go with the car, which is now a used car for the dealer to resell, so you will lose the license plate fees as well (currently an exorbitant sum in CA).
It's unclear to me what happens with the sales tax, if it was financed into the car loan. That's a potentially big sum of money. Even if the car is bought back, I'm sure the state's position will be that the original sale was valid and sales tax is due.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
We may get the sales tax back in CA. You buy a pair of shoes and take them back they refund the price including tax. The license fees may be tougher to get back. I doubt a guy could go in and plunk down a $hundred Grand and take a new Corvette on a 60 day joy ride.
during your 60 day trial if you should keel over and die, you lose your right to return the vehicle. So your grieving wife or family is left holding the bailout bag for GM.
That is a dumb exclusion, yet it is only one of over a dozen things you need to WATCH OUT for in the fine print of this blatant false advertising by Gov't Motors.
If they were serious, they'd make this a no strings attached full 100% refund with no costs to the consumer. Right now there are dozens of strings, many catches, and lots of exceptions and exclusions.
Bottom line is that this trial will cost you about $500 plus a deposit of another $500 for 2 months since you have to pay more to get the 60 day trial clause thrown into the contract.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I heard on the NPR news today that per some GM official very few Saturns were returned, back when the 7-day test drive was a standard feature of all Saturn sales. I wonder if it was just too costly or too much of a hassle for folks to return their Saturns, or if in fact that many customers were delighted with their new cars.
Either way, GM officials clearly expect few returns this time around, and this program is meant to be a bold way of saying that the new GM has emerged and ARRIVED, with great product for sale.
Opinions will vary.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The fine print leaves a lot to be desired. There are tons of loopholes and conditions where GM could take advantage of consumers and screw them over.
I don't think GM (or Ford or Chrysler) has any interest in having certain people as customers. In fact, I don't think Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Audi, BMW or Mercedes do either.
I think you misunderstand the program. It refunds the core price of the vehicle and the sales tax. It has the buyer investing some ancillary costs such as the dealer "extra profit" fees and licensing (most people will be licensing some vehicle so there's no loss there, and other parts of the purchase. The buyer has some costs invested in the purchase and return. If they decide they really don't like the car, it's worth it to get out of it rather than be stuck with a car as I've read people who bought popular brands on the forum on the basis that "everyone else thinks it 's a great car, only to find something they really don't like and they have to wait three years to be able to afford to trade out.
I didn't say anything in the post about getting all fees back. Where did I say it's a lemon buyback?
>lose license plate fees.
Maybe that's unique to California as a problem, but in Ohio, you just transfer plates to another car. As I read the gm site, the sales tax is returned, but the rebates or incentives are not returned (the customer didn't actually pay them.
I just checked the websites, and the Fall Carlisle Saturday is October 3, with Hershey being the 10th. Cooter may be taking a vacation though, and arriving in the area on the 3rd, and just planning to hit Hershey while he's there.
The license and other fees aren't refundable, I'd consider it rental fee for a brand new car for 60 days :shades: Now gimme my blue ZO6 or Black CTS-V!! :P
Almost 112 inches of wheelbase? Yup, that's a BIG car in my book. And it's almost 200 inches in length too! A Toyota Sienna is only 201 inches in length!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Comments
girlfriend'swife'sSo, the long Labor Day weekend encouraged you to get hitched?
If so, congrats!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Remember that whe the kiddies come along, GM doesn't make a minivan anymore... :P
Congrats man.
No doubt why he's said he doesn't want kids for so long....
That's OK. The DTS is plenty big enough...
Congratulations! 11 years! Seems like yesterday.
3800's commonly beat 3100's and 3300's in mpg in mid 90's cars, even when the 3800 car was heavier. Nothing new here.
***
Back to the discussion
***
3800's commonly beat 3100's and 3300's in mpg in mid 90's cars, even when the 3800 car was heavier. Nothing new here.
That's because it was essentially a v6 diesel at highway speeds. Smaller engines require more rpms to keep moving without lugging the engine, which immediately affects fuel economy.
BTW, my BIL lives in Lower Macungie.
Regards,
OW
I think I will drink a toast to you and your bride... May your years together be many...
Back on topic:
Cadillac DTS and Buick LaCrosse are among the least problematic GM products. The only question is: how can a few models cover for the other models' mess?
That's all.
PS: OW, now's a good time to prepare a purchase for a "very much like new" Corvette, don't you think? 2000 miles, 2 months old, $10k below new price
If you're going to get one used after someone returns it, remember that that person may not have treated it as nicely as someone who planned on keeping it a few years.
I'll just take a ZR-1 for the free period and return it.
I'm gonna do the same, get the ZR1 for the period and then return it :shades: (I'm not in the market for a 2 seater anyway :P )
Regards,
OW
Somehow I doubt it.
Congratulations lemko!! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm sure GM's 60 day trial will be riddled with as many fine print loopholes as Chrysler's "lifetime" warranty gimmick was.
Also, Chrysler's fake warranty didn't cover their "fun" vehicles, so I doubt GM will include anything with over 300HP in their 60 day trial gimmick.
http://www.gm.com/guarantee/terms-and-conditions/?brandId=ch&src=hom&evar24=ch_h- - om_60dayguar
I am surprised, but maybe you CAN get a Z06 on this program. Of course, you would have to qualify for financing on such an expensive vehicle, and make at least 1 payment. Then when you bring it back, you have to wait to get reimbursed for that 1 payment you made, and I bet you lose the interest portion of the payment.
And of course program rules say you can't have your trade-in back if there was one, and if you were upside down on it you owe the dealership the upside down portion.
I hve to say, there isn't one thing at GM that I would want to test drive right now, even WITH the guarantee. I'm not a big-car guy, so not very interested in the Lacrosse, and the Malibu I have already driven (and been underwhelmed). They need more, better, cars (other than full-size models). Same problem Toyota currently has.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You also have registrations and document fees which are nonrefundable. Insurance for 2 months will likely cost you 4 months worth after cancelling. Same with registration with the CA DMV; you pay more when you cancel.
Also, if you rearend me and I lose my eligibility, then your insurance company has to buyback the vehicle to make me whole! LOL, this is hilarious. Also, the program makes you pay $500 more for the same vehicle than everyone else that opts out of this farce of a program. So if I was going to try and take advantage, I'd:
1) get a CTS-V or Z06
2) pay in full in cash
3) self-insure with $50K bond
4) have a good lawyer ready when GM decides to screw everyone
Obviously dealer fees aren't refundable. License plates are usable on your next car so the cost of plates and registration are on you. Same for title costs. Sales tax would come back from your state if law allows. If the dealer can refund it they do; if not you apply to the state.
It's a great idea to shut up some of the complainers always trying to put down GM products: take one you like and try it for 30+ days. If another car company would have come up with this, I suspect we wouldn't be hearing the kvetching trying to turn it negative.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It appears to be a simple full-price refund of the vehicle's price itself. But any fees from the dealer will be on the buyer, as will any negative equity in the trade-in and the interest portion of the car payment you will be required to make. Not to mention, the plates go with the car, which is now a used car for the dealer to resell, so you will lose the license plate fees as well (currently an exorbitant sum in CA).
It's unclear to me what happens with the sales tax, if it was financed into the car loan. That's a potentially big sum of money. Even if the car is bought back, I'm sure the state's position will be that the original sale was valid and sales tax is due.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That is a dumb exclusion, yet it is only one of over a dozen things you need to WATCH OUT for in the fine print of this blatant false advertising by Gov't Motors.
If they were serious, they'd make this a no strings attached full 100% refund with no costs to the consumer. Right now there are dozens of strings, many catches, and lots of exceptions and exclusions.
Bottom line is that this trial will cost you about $500 plus a deposit of another $500 for 2 months since you have to pay more to get the 60 day trial clause thrown into the contract.
Either way, GM officials clearly expect few returns this time around, and this program is meant to be a bold way of saying that the new GM has emerged and ARRIVED, with great product for sale.
Opinions will vary.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I don't think GM (or Ford or Chrysler) has any interest in having certain people as customers. In fact, I don't think Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Audi, BMW or Mercedes do either.
I think you misunderstand the program. It refunds the core price of the vehicle and the sales tax. It has the buyer investing some ancillary costs such as the dealer "extra profit" fees and licensing (most people will be licensing some vehicle so there's no loss there, and other parts of the purchase. The buyer has some costs invested in the purchase and return. If they decide they really don't like the car, it's worth it to get out of it rather than be stuck with a car as I've read people who bought popular brands on the forum on the basis that "everyone else thinks it 's a great car, only to find something they really don't like and they have to wait three years to be able to afford to trade out.
I didn't say anything in the post about getting all fees back. Where did I say it's a lemon buyback?
>lose license plate fees.
Maybe that's unique to California as a problem, but in Ohio, you just transfer plates to another car.
As I read the gm site, the sales tax is returned, but the rebates or incentives are not returned (the customer didn't actually pay them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Now gimme my blue ZO6 or Black CTS-V!! :P
Almost 112 inches of wheelbase? Yup, that's a BIG car in my book. And it's almost 200 inches in length too! A Toyota Sienna is only 201 inches in length!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Sounds like a 1970's domestic compact you're describing there! :P