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Comments
Indeed...
And, without that taxpayer support, that 2007-issued warranty would be non-existent in 2010, wouldn't it? Where do you think GM and Chrysler would be today without the bail-outs?
I have to tell you...That "buy Umerukun!" slogan doesn't work for most consumers unless the product is on par with its competition. And, that's exactly the way it should be.
Boy, no stereotyping or generalizing there, huh?
I came to the conclusion a couple of decades ago, that those who feel they are the most enlightened are often the most closed-minded...resorting to humor and eye-rolling at those who have differences of opinion with them, even if met with real reasons.
Boy, no stereotyping or generalizing there, huh?
Yeah, what's up with that? Everybody knows it's "buy 'Murken!" The former was too many syllables.
Okay, I'll stop now. :P
And, like some of your other conclusions, this one is flawed.
Exactly how does buying a US branded car made in Canada .vs. one made in Mexico help the US economy more?
And, how about a response to your "warranty" comment? If the bail-out had never happened, what do YOU think that warranty would be worth today?
Thinking you are supporting your "home" economy by purchasing an inferior-made product is nonsense. That was the point I was making. And, before you go off on some tirade, I'm not saying all US made products are inferior. However, the Big 3 have a clear history of doing exactly that over the last 30-40 years.
Apparently, they can't give them away. Could it be that potential buyers are leery of the chopped top problem that severely limits visibility and thus compromises safety? I see those Camaros lined-up in front row of Chevy dealer in nearby town.
Will this gen of Camaro be like other flops of GM like last GTO, Chevy SSR tricked-up pickup, Olds Aurora, last gen Riviera, etc. And when they finally get a design right such as last Fiero or Pontiac G8, they kill it. What about Solstice, Sky, Saturns, etc?
I have yet to see a Solstice or Sky without wrinkles in the very back of the convertible top, where the "wings" of the top are located.
The 21st century, and yet GM still couldn't figure out how to make a convertible top on par with every other carmaker.
Amazing...
I was very interested in the Saturn Sky when it was being shown around as a concept. Then when it finally showed up at the dealer I was absolutely appalled at how bad it was. What an aweful piece of junk, WAY too many flaws to mention.
The convertible top being one of them...
Putz wanted a cheap affordable roadster, well he got what he wanted 200%.
Emphasis on "cheap". :sick:
I didn't think so.
I didn't think so.
Is there some point to the comment above?
What the heck are you squawking about here?
There is always some pent-up demand for a new model (especially a retro model), and its not unusual for sales of a new model to start off briskly. The real question is..."What are the sales figures 1, 2 ...3 years after the model has been introduced?".
Apparently, they can't give them away. Could it be that potential buyers are leery of the chopped top problem that severely limits visibility and thus compromises safety? I see those Camaros lined-up in front row of Chevy dealer in nearby town.
Will this gen of Camaro be like other flops of GM like last GTO, Chevy SSR tricked-up pickup, Olds Aurora, last gen Riviera, etc. And when they finally get a design right such as last Fiero or Pontiac G8, they kill it. What about Solstice, Sky, Saturns, etc?
I just checked overstock.com and their discount auto buying service. They say
that they can guarantee the lowest price on any new car through certified
dealers in different areas of the country.
It doesn'tt seem that the Chevy dealers are that desperate to "unload" the
new Camaros. The lowest price for a 1LT V-6 Camaro from the 2 dealers
in my area were only $578 and $178 of the MSRP. On a SS it was
$719 and $319 off sticker.
By contrast I checked the price for a 370-Z and found 2 dealers willing to
discount them by $2618 and $1818. On a top of the line Touring model
the discount was $3722 and $2722.
I guess Nissan dealers are much more desperate to sell the Z cars.
By the way I think this forum should be renamed the "Let's dump on GM forum"
I currently own 2 GM vehicles and have owned dozens in the past and for the most part have all given good service and have been reliable. I have a suspicion a large
proportion of negative posters have never owned one. ( and obviously never would)
We're calling it a potential flop already, and it outsold the standard-bearer in the class for months and months. Man, talk about wishin' and hopin'!
I think I'll have to go to Toyota and Honda forums and dump all over their product for fun. All I have to say is, overall, balance is good in everything.
I don't have anything else to add to this forum, so I'm outta here.
But back to the Z, you can save 2K off of the Z's price by getting a similar G37 sedan. The dealers are far more desperate to move them at the end of the year, and in a month or so, when the new models come out, 30K for a 2010 Journey will be possible.
And I suspect you have never owned anything but GM vehicles before? A common theme on the GM sites I visit. Many of the posters have a few more of them than they do members of their household, won't, or haven't ever owned anything else and replacing them every couple of years for a new one. Hell, if I kept my vehicle for 50k and got another one, I'd probably rave about it as "flawless" and "equal to the "Insert brand here" too...
That's cool. If you like what you like and choose to write everything else off even though it's a baseless and subjective, by all means own 40 of them, shoot buy a dealership. :P
These are the same people who will knock anything NOT made by Government Motors, and claim they only "Buy American" as they Cruze around in their Daewoo designed Chevy, Opel designed Buick, Cadillac, Pontiac or Saturn, built in China, Mexico, Canada or wherever the stink they think it's OK that it's not really American...
These are also the same guys who have managed to pull Ford into their "cause" to bring Government Motors back to what they believe should be "1950's Americana" yet will be the first to trash talk Ford as inferior junk...
There is no freedom of choice in the minds of a C&G, GMI, Volt.com or whatever biased, arrogant, fanboi poster (Not claiming you are Greg) but sorry if members like myself here drink the same koolaid.
Spread the propoganda right?
" 373,000 Toyota Avalons Recalled Over Faulty Steering Locks View Single Post "
Oh well, Welcome to America Greg, enjoy your stay.
By the way I have owned and had experience with many foreign branded vehicles including Nissan, Mercedes, and Volkswagen in addtion to Ford and Chrysler..The GM's and Chrylsers compared well with the Japanese Brands. The Volkswagen had problems, but that was over 10 years ago. The Fords including F-150's and Windstars have been great taking them at least to 150,000 miles. My business had a 1989 Chevy Astro that went 350,000 miles. The maintenance and repair was dirt cheap.
Most new cars from any manufacturer today are good performers and reliable.
I prefer to consider American branded cars first because I consider them just
as good, a better value and because I prefer to support this country's Auto
companies and because I can. I know they are multi-national but they still represent the United States. I also prefer to buy wine from California or Long Island but it usally costs more.
Shall we say my experience with them was somewhat less than that. To be fair mine was a 95 which was the worst year to have.
haha seems to fit the toyota blundra to a "t" except it was a flop from the start and downhill from there :lemon: they cant give them away now :sick:
Probably a fairly accurate statement. But, lets be honest for a moment.
The Big 3's products have vastly improved over the years primarily due to the superior (at the time, anyway) products competing with them from Europe and Asia. But, again...to be fair, the early German and Asian imported products weren't very much to crow about either. And, let's not even discuss English made vehicles!
I prefer to consider American branded cars first because I consider them just
as good, a better value and because I prefer to support this country's Auto
companies and because I can. I know they are multi-national but they still represent the United States.
Fair enough... At least, IMO. Some of the latest Big-3 products appear to be just as good (maybe better) than many foreign-based competitors.
However, ALL auto makers (in fact, almost all large manufacturers of ANY product) are multi-national nowadays. I try to buy from manufacturers that locate in my "environment", ones that employ workers in the area where I live. For example, BMW and Michelin manufacture in the Upstate of SC, so I buy their products. Between the two, they easily account for ten's of thousands of local jobs. Jobs for many of my friends.
I also attempt to buy textile based products from companies that have maintained plants in SC, even though they could have moved the operations off-shore. And, I prefer to buy locally grown produce, but on occasion I'll buy imported fruit if it isn't locally available.
In NO case, though, will I pay a higher price for an inferior product. While some may feel doing that is "patriotic", I see it as foolish, and only delaying the ineviable collapse of that industry. Accepting mediocrity, when superior (yet competitively priced) products are available for that reason is simply STUPID!
The real crime is that Ford has been significantly injured due to its competitors being propped up by the taxpayers. While they are still doing pretty well, if GM and/or C had failed, Ford would be running at a MUCH higher sales rate right now. So the prop-ups really hurt the last non-subsidized US nameplate.
They have GOT to be kidding at GM. Every car is an example of your best product on the road and that one proves the past quality perceptions are still accurate.
Perhaps I expect too much from GM but there are much better choices out there. Until that changes, expect many to continue to leave the 4 GM Divisions based on innovations that GM can't or refuse to lead in the market. Like I always said, I might be a tiny voice in the wind but afaic, there is no real apparent desire to continue to blindly buy GM based on what I see.
Regards,
OW
Funny, I also predicted this a year or so ago. GM supporters were crowing about the high Camaro sales in the first few months. I said "let's wait a year or two and see how they are selling". The problem is that not only was GM late to the table on this vehicle (compared to Mustang; also like they were late with Solstice/Sky, hybrids, HHR, etc.), they built a vehicle that fills a narrower niche than the Mustang due to the more extreme styling and gunslit windows. Another brilliant marketing move by overrated Mr. Lutz!
They are OK in my book but not a must have which is what they were going to be. I'll be happy to see the convertible.
Good point.
Like the Chrysler Challenger product, the Camaro has a very narrow "tier" to appeal towards. I would guess a large part of the current owner base consists of those in their teens and early twenties when the original products were first available in the 1960-70's (many who couldn't afford one at the time). Once that niche has been filled, where does the demand come from?
The Mustang, however, has been in production basically since 1964, and I suspect its demand is much more multi-generational than the Challenger or Camaro's client base.
I'm from that era, and I really like the way both cars look. But, not enough to go out and buy one...
All they need to do is beat Hyundai, really. Although SOME of their new products are much improved, They are one step ahead of GM which is not saying too much.
Trucks aside, they need to develop a killer car strategy that just is not apparent at the moment. Mustangs ROCK but the rest are OK. Taurus being the mid/large car is an improvement akin to the Malibu...good start but don't give me the same model for 10 years with tiny improvements in content and no real design advancements.
Fusion is good but let's get some excitement in the design...smooth out the edges and make a voluptuous small car with 40 mpg and 280HP that costs $25G loaded...(read:Turbo 4 Ecoboost Dial-Up from the Dash)
more like this....
Regards,
OW
What color was that CTS? I've noticed that, if the light hits it right, just about any car will show an embarrassing amount of orange peel. It tends to be noticeable on darker cars, though. For instance, I remember pulling into a parking lot one day in my midnight blue 1979 New Yorker, parking next to an '03-07 Accord in midnight blue, and I kid thee not...orange peel was much worse on the Accord! Now, I guess you could argue that, after 31 years, most of the orange peel has worn off my NYer. :P
I have a friend with a dark gray 2006 Xterra, and the orange peel on it is pretty horrible. It really shows up in the morning and evening light, for some reason, and shows up on the sides more than the top.
And a couple years ago, at the auto shows, I've noticed that suddenly, when you walked from the Nissan display into the BMW or Benz display, all of a sudden, there wasn't that huge difference anymore. Heck, even the Maybach they had at the Philly show, which was roped off so you couldn't get near it, was even showing some pretty bad orange peel that you could spot from a distance.
I wonder if part of it might be the clearcoats they use these days? Maybe they're so thick that somehow, they exaggerate the look of the orange peel?
Source: Truthaboutcars.com
There are three GM vehicles in our family's fleet and all give great service and have been supremely reliable. I believe my wife's 2005 LaCrosse will live at least as long as my 1988 Buick Park Avenue barring theft or accidents.
Oh, I also have a 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, but it's the black sheep of our automotive family.
Okay, I'm going off the deep end. I've waxed my Expedition twice since I've owned it. It's to darn big. If I go through the car wash, I'll order the quick wax;).
I won't say anymore about the Grand Prix, my first statement should cover that:)
Unfortunately your other observation is correct. If you even think about dust suddenly the car doesn't look right.
Dark colors in general are this way but black is the worst - or the best for maybe 15 minutes after you wash it...
I think white is a killer in that it looks every bit as bad as black when its dirty but nowhere near as good as black when it's all shined up.
no wonder they sell so many silver cars.
I have to agree with you there. My Expedition being in Eddie Bauer trim is black/tan. To top it off in has a black and tan interior. These 95 degree weekends have been brutal as it has to sit outside when we are at the lake. Gravel parking lots and blazing sun is certainly not ideal for black. It pretty much ends up being tan on tan when we get home from the weekend.
If you hate that Grand Prix so much, why don't you give it to me? I'd treat it to a Concours-quality detail.
Yeah, I've had a few silver cars and they are forgiving. I may go that route when it's time to replace the Expedition.
I know - you bought it used. that's how we got a black Camry.
Trust me, you wouldn't want it either. Though I will give it one compliment. The A/C rocks in this 97 degree weather we've been having. Other than that, my wife and I are counting down the days until she gets a new company car. Looks like she'll be getting a new Taurus within the next year. While not the best looking car in the world, it's much better than a run of the mill GP or Impala. Been there done that. Yuck.
It sure does!
I know - you bought it used. that's how we got a black Camry.
LOL! Yeah, it looked nice and shiny sitting on the lot all lonely next to those homely Chevy's;). It's an 07 that I bought in 08 when gas was $4.50 a gallon. I couldn't pass up the deal as my Suburban was killing me and it had to go.
But being married, I know how that goes. She probably makes him shine up hers and he's to tired to bother with his;)
Pic is older, but this is how it usually looks:
The quick detailer product is very good, it seems to be able to cure light swirl marks...the NXT wax also masks imperfections pretty well, almost like putting a glaze on the car.