GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    I remember the Chevy dealer local to me had a couple of those SS badged (it was nothing more ) Impalas too. I too remember them costing 30K. Ridiculous, whoever came up with that crap should have been fired and fined, not promoted as they undoubtedly were in the tenured GM structure. Brand equity kicked down another notch.
  • tbone_raretbone_rare Member Posts: 96
    You can use those figures to discount retail sales numbers if you'd like, however don't stop at the GM registrations. 50% Ford Taurus...74% Lincoln Town Car... 24% Ford Fusion...46% Kia Amanti....and the precious Hyundai Sonata 30%.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    I'm actually impressed that fleet percentages for the Aveo and Cobalt aren't higher. And I can understand the Impala having a high percentage. It's not that popular among the buying public anymore, but it makes a great fleet car. Heck, our office at work just got one. I haven't had a chance to ride in it yet. Beats the hell out of the 1996 Achieva with the dented door we used to have, though!

    As for the Malibu Hybrid, I guess most private buyers realized the fuel savings nowhere near offsets the additional cost, so GM is dumping them into fleets, as well? Wasn't the Hybrid discontinued recently?

    I'm kinda surprised by the HHR, although I guess it's getting a bit long in the tooth. Hey, one thing I'm wondering...if a small business buys up a few HHR's to use as delivery vehicles (flowers or other lightweight type work), that would still count as a fleet sale, wouldn't it?
  • tbone_raretbone_rare Member Posts: 96
    Andre.....I believe from GM's point of view, a customer has to purchase 6 units in a year before they qualify as fleet customers. One other thing to point out regarding the Impala sales...Ford used to have the market pretty well sewn up with law enforcement vehicles. I can't tell you the number of police package Impala's I have personally sold in the past 3 years. Every single officer I have spoken with likes the Impala much more than their old Crown Vic. When you factor in the fuel savings....the Impala is a VERY smart purchase.

    With that being said, I suppose I'm partially at fault for the Impala fleet registrations being high.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    I've heard that the Impala makes a pretty good police car, in most respects. From what I've seen of the benchmark Michigan State Police tests, the Impala with a 3.9 is competitive with the V-8 Crown Vic, and the Charger with the 3.5. Naturally, the Hemi Charger blows them all away, but it's also a lot more expensive, and as they say, you can't outrun the radio!

    I'd guess in the long run, the Crown Vic is still more sturdy and durable than the Impala. For example, hop a curb in a Crown Vic and you won't faze it, but do it in the Impala, and it comes in for repairs. And an accident that sends the Vic to the body shop for repairs might total the Impala. But, the Impala's lower price and better mpg might be good enough to offset that, so overall it's a draw, financially.

    I'm actually surprised to see the next county over from me is still using Intrepids for police cars! Considering an Intrepid hasn't rolled off the assembly line since September 2003, I'm pretty impressed. I figured the cops would have beaten them all up by now.

    In my county, they use mainly Impalas, and there are still a lot of the 2005 and older models floating around.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The HHR makes a lot of sense for many business. My local appliance repairman has a small fleet of panel sided HHRs. If you don't need to haul heavy and bulky items, the HHR is probably a lot better than a full size van or pickup.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    They were a l-o-n-g way from the awesome Impala SS's of the 1960s. I like how the 1965-66 models had the words "Super Sport" spelled out on the lower front fender behind the wheel. I guess the last of the classic Impala SS's was the 1970 model.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The Philadelphia Police Department has a very diverse fleet. Most of it is Crown Victrorias, Impalas, and a few Hemi Chargers used by the highway patrol. I see a few Ford Escapes used as patrol vehicles.

    The NYPD has a few of these:

    image

    It's very strange seeing these cars as police vehicles and taxis.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    Yeah, it's kinda funny seeing an Altima being used as a police car. I'll admit, I used to have a pretty strong fascination with the Altima (both the 2002-2006 and the current model), but after finally riding in my Mom's 2008 2.5 SL a few months ago, I sort of lost the fascination. It was still a pretty nice car, but, somehow, I guess I was just expecting more.

    I actually prefer the styling of the 2002-2006 version. However, the '07+ does have a nicer interior, and gets better fuel economy.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    image

    PPD Impala

    image

    PPD Expressway Patrol Charger

    image

    PPD Crown Victoria
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Interesting photos of Philly police cars. GM represented by front driver Impala while Ford and Dodge are rwd. Would be interesting to find out which of these 3 vehicles is preferred by majority of police officers. Read somewhere that GM will be building Chevrolet police cars for US market based on last gen Pontiac G8, which was rwd. Of the three cars in photos, the Ford has the best visibility, the Charger has the worst. Also, looks like the Ford has better rear door opening in order to load in the perps.

    On off-topic matter, item in yesterday's WSJ said that Motorola was considering legal action against Lemko.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    NJ State Troopers love their Crown Vics!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    Here are some fun variants:

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  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Supposedly, the first ones spelled out 'Super Sport' in an attempt to minimize the [non-permissible content removed] connotations of the initials.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Mercedes police car parked in front of KFC. How interesting.

    Been tivoing and watching highlights of Tour de France. Besides watching bicycle racer competition, interesting to watch sides of roads to see what kind of brands of cars and if any American cars, suvs. Have only seen a couple of PT Cruisers. Most all cars look to be compact, sub-compact. Many RVs, but not the big bus types we have in US. Not a single Suburban, GM American brand spotted. Of course, much of the Tour route is on narrow roads, and was in mountains, so small cars make more sense. And, gas prices very high compared to US.

    GM needs a full or near full size car offering for US police departments.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    edited July 2010
    And of course, the cops in Japan got all sorts of fun sports cars to drive over the years, the most impractical being this one:

    image
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited July 2010
    They have a perfect car to fit that need.

    It's the Holden Commodore. They brought it over as the Pontiac G8 for two years and then, like the idiots
    that they are, stopped selling it. It's the best thing GM makes to date with the possible exception of the
    CTS, and yet again, in its infinite wisdom "not for sale in the U.S.".

    And you wonder why I loathe GM. Like their cars, but man what a bunch of morons. They *have*
    a car, ready to go for sale in the U.S. that beats its competition in its home market quite handily.
    But then after all of that work to bring it over to the U.S., decide to not sell it any more.

    image

    You're not outrunning that. :P And, yes, you can get it with the CTS 3.6 engine or a modified Corvette V8.
    So local police can save some money and the highway patrol can get power and speed to chase down idiots.

    But... "Not For Sale in the U.S." :cry:
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    GM is bringing over the WM Statesman (long-wheelbase Commodore) as a police-only model.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Best news I've heard in a while. It will get interest in the car again and used ex-police models will start showing up in a couple of years in the used market.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    image

    image
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    When did ABBA join the Po-Po in Colo?
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    When did ABBA join the Po-Po in Colo?

    "Take a chance on me ...."

    :P
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    edited July 2010
    The 3.6-liter V-6 with variable valve timing (VVT) and direct injection employs four independent cam phasers to change the timing of valve operation as operating conditions such as rpm and engine load vary. The result is linear delivery of torque, with near-peak levels over a broad rpm range, and high specific output (maximum horsepower per liter of displacement) supporting overall engine response and drivability. When combined, direct injection and VVT enable an unmatched combination of power, efficiency and low-emissions in gasoline V-6 engines.

    87 HP per liter with this setup.
    Hundai expecting 134.5 HP per liter by adding turbocharging to a L4.
    55% more HP per liter for the Hundai Sonata
    80% more liters for the Camaro.
    Camaro LS $22,680 base price
    Hundai proposed as $24,995 base price
    21 vs. 26 mpg combined
    3780 lbs vs. 3199 lbs
    2 doors vs. 4 doors

    GM needs to get on the ball. Hundai has 84% of the Camaro weight, but Camaro gets only 83% of the Hundai hwy mpgs. That is a 1% lack of efficiency on GM's part in only a 2-3 year older design. And the Camaro is only $2320 less to account for that 1% lower efficiency.

    Edmunds Editor's rating of 7.5 means:
    "Introduction
    OK, we're going to get straight to the point here. The 2010 Chevrolet Camaro rocks."
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Here is straight to the point. The Malibu is quite inferior to the 2011 Sonata in all categories. While GM plays it's old tricks and fails to innovate, others blow past them. Get used to it.

    Power /Weight

    image

    Hope this helps you understand better.

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    Interesting stats, but I wonder how accurate some of those figures are? For instance, I was always under the impression that the Malibu was more of a porker, more like 3800 lb or so? But that chart is showing it at 3,436 lb, slightly less than the Accord or Camry.

    And in interior volume, I remember a big fuss made over the '08 Accord when it came out, that by EPA standards, it actually qualified as, barely, a full-sized car! The EPA classifies 110-120 cubic feet of combined interior/trunk space as midsized, and 120+ as fullsized. The EPA has the Accord listed at 106 interior, 14 trunk, 120 combined.

    I think I read somewhere though, that the sunroof on the new Accord is really intrusive, and cuts interior volume by something ridiculous, like 4-5 cubic feet. So maybe those stats above are taking that into account?

    But, nitpicking aside, that chart does make the Sonata look pretty impressive.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    2010 Chevrolet Malibu LS Sedan Exterior s
    -
    External dimensions: overall length (inches): 191.8, overall width (inches): 70.3, overall height (inches): 57.1, wheelbase (inches): 112.3, front track (inches): 59.6, rear track (inches): 60.0 and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 40.4
    -
    Weights: curb weight (lbs) 3,415
    -
    This the the 4-cyl. Here is the V-6:

    Curb weight LTZ V6: 1655 kg (3649 lbs)

    Regards,
    OW
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    This week GM bought Americredit Corp for $3.5 billion, another inside deal involving the Obama czars and friends of the admininstration..I don't remember any fanfare prior to the sale, however the premium paid was in the range of 30%+++..Our tax $$$ at work, and I can see the smile on George Soros's face..

    I see where August 2010 is the kickoff date for the IPO, the regime has to get out of GM holdings prior to any serious talk of "Cap and Tax" legislation which will again gut the auto business.. The upcoming "Volt" will only sell with huge Govt rebates, and our gas prices will start to jump after the 2010 elections..

    Having been born in 1933, owned 53 cars to date, 51 of them produced by the Big3, and 2 Porsches I will state postively that no Asian nameplate will never have my name on the title or registration.. Lived in the best of times, and the current outlook for our great country is bleak..Another conviction is that I will not buy any GM or Chrysler product produced after the Obama takeover...period..who cares about the IPO, ain't gonna be any of those 2 brands bought new,,ever,,never..again..

    My 2006 Pontiac GPGT w/260hp-S/C V-6 will share the garage with a V-8 Mustang GT, both noisy, rough riding, and my type of Yankee wheels..

    Don't feed me the line that your Asian wheels are assembled with local labor, big deal....maybe 25% of the parts are USA produced..the balance are Aisan supplied..Spent 1967 thru 2002 as a supplier to the auto industry, 2 1/2 yrs with a transplant Japanese parts-supplier, so don't be snuckered by their claims..

    Have you noticed how Toyota got off the "hook", and now our govt says that sudden acceleration is due to "driver error"..I think the sweet little Asians mustered up some "political cash"..Another "shakedown" for the govt, and some of our "legal eagles"..

    Who produced the "Daewoo" ?????? Too lazy to google it...

    Gotta dun my renters in Michigan for they are forever behind, quess they need a 'bailout"..
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    so if I want to go fast in a Hundai, my choices are so mych better than if I wanted to do the same in a GM.

    Choices in a Hundai for 1990: excel
    Choices in a Hundai for 1995: excel
    Choices in a Hundai for 2000: excel
    Choices in a Hundai for 2005: sonata
    Choices in a Hundai for 2010: genesis

    Choices in a GM in 1990: 0-60 in 3.9 seconds in a Syclone
    Maybe 4.0 seconds in a Z06
    not enough time to list them all but there are probable a hundred to list through 2010, ending with a similar weight, similar wheelbase, similar length GM coupe with a 312 HP V6 not requiring the high maintenance of Turbo.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Are the theoretical maintenance needs of a low-pressure turbocharger greater or lesser than the known maintenance needs of the self-destructing timing chain on the GM 3.6?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Wow...you're all over the place. Why not add the CTS-V??...great comparisons! :confuse:

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    $41k base list $44k optioned before tax rebate seems steep to me. At a roughly $35k entry price with tax incentives, it's far from cheap. If you looking to save money, just buy a Cruze or Fiesta and pocket $15k+.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    If I was confused and bought a 4dr V-8 Gensis for $40k++, do you think I would have to sit in the same lobby as Accent owners???? Lexus owners are pampered, so I doubt if the Hyundai has gotten around to any special treatment...

    Never been to a Hyundai dealer, do they sell lawnmowers or chain saws????

    Hourly rate update at UAW assembly plt operations for new hires is $14.00, while the oldtimer gets the 28.00..don't you love the regime's new wage scale..Personally I think the new scale is too high, $7.50 to start, and $14.00 after 20 yrs...
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    If I was confused and bought a 4dr V-8 Gensis for $40k++, do you think I would have to sit in the same lobby as Accent owners???? Lexus owners are pampered, so I doubt if the Hyundai has gotten around to any special treatment...

    I don't know, but I do know if you buy a Cadillac from my local caddy dealer you will be inline with an owner of an Aveo as they sell and service Chevy.

    We also have a BMW dealer in town that sells Honda's all on the same showroom and service center. I wonder if they throw in a Fit if you buy a 7 series?;)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I bought my last two cars from a stand-alone Cadillac dealer. It is a really nice new building.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    We don't even have a stand alone MB dealer here. They also sell lowly Volvo's.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,093
    If I was confused and bought a 4dr V-8 Gensis for $40k++, do you think I would have to sit in the same lobby as Accent owners????

    I bought a Genesis and really haven't had any problems with the dealer I got it from. There was no special treatment, but, they serviced my car right the first time and that is all that matters.

    As for Accent owners..... what makes me any better than them because I drive a nicer car :confuse:

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    As for Accent owners..... what makes me any better than them because I drive a nicer car :confuse:

    Now isn't that the truth.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    $41k base for Volt for GM to recoup development, manufacturing costs. That's ok by me for whoever would rather buy the Volt than a 3-Series, G37, whatever for that dollar amount. The Volt should be competing with other cars strictly on its own virtues and "without" government interference, which is the $7500 tax rebate. We taxpayers should not have to subsidize the Volt or any other vehicle.

    One has to wonder, on a macro level, how carbon efficient the Volt might be. Given the loss amount of electricity over transmission wires and distance from generating plant, could the Volt have somewhat similar overall carbon footprint compared to ICE equipped cars of its weight that use very efficient petroleum based gasoline?
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    GM has been leaning on Caddy dealers to develop Cadillac only stores. Faced with that the local Chevy-Cadillac dropped Caddy. Now GM is pulling his Chevy dealership.

    $41K for the base Volt is insane. This is the EV1 all over again.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Was a story in our local paper recently about a longtime Chevy/Buick dealership owner who was told by GM and/or Obama auto czar that he had to shut down his store in one town and sell his other store in a bigger town about 15 miles to the east. GM then cut off all new vehicles to the smaller town store and his lot was bare.

    He settled with GM somehow by selling the bigger town store to a dealer who already had a store about 40 miles away. GM has started shipping new vehicles and promises 2011 models to his smaller town store.

    The dealship owner is in late 60's, had the same Chevy/Buick dealership in the smaller town for about 3+ decades and has many, many loyal customers. The owner said he fought hard against GM not only to retain his business, but to keep on role all of his employees.

    Would like to know who is responsible for the arbitrary forcing of closures of some GM dealerships. Was it GM management or Obama Admin?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    Useless GM suits or the aimless Obama cronies...what's the difference? ;)
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    If I was confused and bought a 4dr V-8 Gensis for $40k++, do you think I would have to sit in the same lobby as Accent owners????

    Corvette owners sit in the same lobby as Aveo owners....
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    $41K for the base Volt is insane.

    For that kind of money I can buy a Prius or Insight, and have enough $ leftover to have free gas, insurance, and much of the maintenance for the life of the vehicle.

    Considering the state of our various governments' finances, I find it offensive that someone who can afford such a car is going to get $7,500 tax credit. It is a slap in the face to all those citizens who are told there is no $ for food or shelter - go live on the streets.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    Considering the state of our various governments' finances, I find it offensive that someone who can afford such a car is going to get $7,500 tax credit. It is a slap in the face to all those citizens who are told there is no $ for food or shelter - go live on the streets.

    I can sort of understand the logic behind that. If I can afford a $40K car, what, really, is my incentive to buy a Volt? $40K can get you into any number of really nice, tried-and-tested cars, so what's my incentive to take a gamble on something that looks like a compact, and technology-wise, could be a crap-shoot.

    I look at it as more of an incentive to the manufacturer than to Me, the customer. If I buy that car, even though the gov't essentially gave me $7500 to do it, I still just gave GM $40K. And I gave my state another 6% on top of that for the honor of titling and registering the damn thing. If I'm financing the car, I'm giving a lot of money to the bank. I'm sure insurance will cost a pretty penny on that sucker...more than my paid-off 2000 Park Ave.

    And, in the long run, if you give an incentive now to increase demand, it'll help the technology go more mainstream faster. And therefore, make it cheaper, hopefully increasing demand even more, to where the car can be sold without the tax credit. It'll help create jobs by putting people to work building the car and its various components, which in turn gets more money back into the economy as these working people can now start buying more. And, the improved fuel economy helps cut our dependence on foreign oil, although I imagine it could put a strain on the power grid.

    Of course, this is just my theory behind it all and how it would work in a perfect world. We all know the world ain't perfect. And the gov't, even less so!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    It would've been a lot more attractive to me if they made it a Buick Volt and it was as nicely equipped as a top-of-the-line LaCrosse or Lucerne. I'm not paying $40K+ for a Chevy unless it's a Corvette.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Ding! We have officially declared the Volt dead. When you get a GM car that you can't sell to lemko what's left?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    edited July 2010
    And, the improved fuel economy helps cut our dependence on foreign oil, although I imagine it could put a strain on the power grid.

    And, the Volt helps support the US coal mining industry and the coal power plants used to generate electricity. Unless, of course, a Volt owner lives near a nuclear power plant. Volt owners can brag that their purchase helps working class coal miners.

    Now, potential Volt buyers need to factor in the uncertainty of our nation's direction. President Obama has said that electricity rates will "skyrocket" when Cap and Trade is enacted. That is still his preference to get it passed, implemented. Under those circumstances, purchase of Volt could be crapshoot.

    I need a new large screen LED tv that uses much less power than my old tv and is thus more friendly to the environment. Thinking of a Samsung 46 inch and would like about a $200 tax credit. Any US taxpayers willing to help fund my new tv?
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    edited July 2010
    And, in the long run, if you give an incentive now to increase demand, it'll help the technology go more mainstream faster.

    Maybe true. But it's also true that anything "mainstream" will then be outsourced to another country to produce, or will be copied by another country and produced by them.

    So I really don't see the Volt or the tax credit creating a large increase in vehicle production here in the U.S. The U.S. government is doing this for several reasons, not least of which - to appease "greenies" that they are doing something, to support GM so they don't have to admit the Volt-program was a waste - which would also hurt GM's value going into an IPO.

    The government is making fleet-purchases, giving support for the halo-ecology Volt, and doing whatever else they can to make GM smell-like roses. To me the government is just dressing-up and perfuming the same old slightly-thinner pig.

    Go down to your nearest GM dealer, look at the vehicles, discuss the whole sales process. Not much different than before the bankruptcy right? What's really changed?
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Agree completely.

    "The government is making fleet-purchases, giving support for the halo-ecology Volt, and doing whatever else they can to make GM smell-like roses. To me the government is just dressing-up and perfuming the same old slightly-thinner pig."

    They've also got a major forum blitz going around the internet to prop up the success of the overpriced econobox, by doing everything possible to belittle and even outright dismiss the competition. :sick:

    I hope they fall flat on their collective asses with this thing. The arrogance is astounding.

    Buy a Volt! It's good for Korea...

    "(Seoul, Korea) LG Chem, Ltd. announced today as the lithium-ion polymer battery cell supplier for GM’s Chevrolet Volt. The Volt, scheduled to be launched in late 2010, will be the first mass-produced extended-range electric vehicle. LG Chem will be the production source for the battery cells, and Compact Power Inc., North American Subsidiary of LG Chem, will build battery packs for Volt development vehicles until GM’s battery facility is operational."
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