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Comments
time will be a friend of the design and it will quickly lose its "uniqueness".
I tend to not like cars where the greenhouse is too big, in comparison with the overall length. It makes them look disproportionate and top-heavy, IMO. Especially if the C-pillar is too far back, in relation to the rear axle.
and these...
and these...
I'll take the new Sonata styling over these in a heart-beat(excuse the pun) and particularly over the Chevies of the not-too-distant-past.
Regards,
OW
You are right. The shape of the Sonata is not 'timeless'. However, by the time the styling wears out, Hyundai will have already established itself as a head-turning contender in the mid-size market place, and a new Sonata will be about to go on sale.
It may be that some of that extra 250 lbs in the Malibu goes into sound deadening materials like the encapsulated mylar layer in the side window glass. The Hundai is bigger in almost every dimension except wheelbase and length. With the shorter wheelbase, higher HP, and reduced weight, the Hundai should do better in the slalom. Right now, the numbers floating around for the DI turbo are not yet fact.
I drove one of those 2004-era Malibus once. First car I ever drove with electric steering, and I HATED it! I guess it's something you'd get used to, though? I didn't like the styling of these. Something about it just made them look too diminutive. This was a midsized car, meant to compete with Camrys, Accords, and Altimas, but when I see them on the road, they almost look Civic or Corolla-sized. That front-end was a goofy mess, but when they gave it the minor restyle, as shown on that radioactive-blue looking Maxx, I didn't think the front-end looked too bad.
My wife had an 01 Impala too. Reliable? Yes, aside from the engine cradle and ISS problems that seemed to plague many GM products (particularly the ISS), But that interior was plain awful.
I don't know, but every GM product I've had to suffer through IMO qualifies as a "throwaway".
My buddies GMC Sierras and his wifes Suburban went through a bunch of them. Even today, this issue plagues a lot of GM vehicles.
Signs are sloppiness, knocking and creaking noises.
#01-02-32-001O: Clunk Felt/Noise Heard From Stering Column, Steering Gear and/or Front of Vehicle During Turnign Maneuver and/or Steering Wheel Rotation (Replace Intermediate Shaft As Directed) - (Mar 27, 2008)
Models:2001-2004 Buick Regal
2005-2007 Buick Allure (Canada Only), LaCrosse
2000-2008 Chevrolet Impala
2000-2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
1998-2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2004-2007 Pontiac Grand Prix
This bulletin is being revised to provide new I-shaft part numbers for servicing Allure and LaCrosse vehicles built PRIOR to January 1, 2006. A Corrective Action Summary has been added to this bulletin for quick reference. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-02-32-001N (Section 02 -- Steering).
Corrective Action Summary:
Model Year
Vehicle Line
Corrective Action
2001-2004
Buick Regal
Replace using P/N 19179922
2005-2006
Buick Allure/LaCrosse
(built PRIOR to January 1, 2006)
Replace using P/N 25829292
2006-2007
Buick Allure/LaCrosse
(built AFTER to January 1, 2006)
Replace using P/N 25828562
2000-2005
Chevrolet Impala
Replace using P/N 19179923
2006-2008
Chevrolet Impala
Replace using P/N 25913681
2000-2005
Chevrolet Monte Carlo
Replace using P/N 19179922
2006-2007
Chevrolet Monte Carlo
Replace using P/N 25913680
1998-2002
Oldsmobile Intrigue
Replace using P/N 19179922
2004-2008
Pontiac Grand Prix
Replace using P/N 25913680
link title
What's sad is there was a TSB on the Impala ISS back in '02 when my wife's went bad on her '01. They were still using the faulty ISS in an '08 Implala? I guess the idea "let the dealer deal with it" is alive and well, at least through '08 anyway.
It was how GM managed to keep as much quality control in line as it did...
Compare the paint on a 6 or 8 year old Hyundai to a domestic, Honda or Toyota..and the paint is always duller on the Hyundai and Kia and makes the car appear even older than it is.
General Motors agreed to buy auto financier Americredit Corp. for $3.5 billion. The deal lets GM expand loans to customers with poor credit and offer more leases, two areas that GM needs to expand to boost car sales.
"No Money? No Worries! Buy a GM anyway!"
Too Big to Succeed. :P
Regards,
OW
I think they were decent cars by 2000, but they had a large customer base that just didn't take care of them. It's sort of the same thing that happens to old Benzes, BMWs, and other luxury cars, once they become used cars, and fall into the hands of those who really can't afford to keep them up. They start looking like crap pretty quickly.
I still see Hyundai Sonatas of early 2000's vintage on a pretty regular basis, and an occasional XG300 or 350, and they seem to have held up pretty well. I probably see Elantras and Accents fairly regularly as well, but just don't pay attention to them.
Regards,
OW
I use this site to guage how vehicles are doing as far as sales, reliability, longevity, etc. I know it's pretty broad bush to paint but look at the mileage on some of these.
link title
As far as paint, I can sort of agree that Hyundais color pallete over the years has not been vibrant, nor have their matte-like clearcoat finishes but I could find plenty 6 or 7 year old "Insert brand Here" that looks like hell, especially up here in salt and sand ridden New England...
A couple of other observations tho as well:
First, Hyundai was still in its infancy in the 90's having only about 15 years under its belt and was re-emerging from the rough reputation of its early years. They were really still coming up to speed in the industry and I would expect there were still lessons learned in the paint and sealant process.
Second, Hyundais, especially of that generation were still sold on the cheap so I would imagine a majority of the owners who bought them weren't going to go out and spend the time, effort or the $$$ on detailing, or simple washing/waxing...
I will say this though. Back a few years ago I was at the New England Auto show and I was admiring how nice the current crop of Hyundais paint jobs were. They were some of the most consistent, orange peel and ripple free paintjobs out there.
What was even more shocking was comparing a 20 thousand dollar Tiberon and then the gawd aweful paint job on an almost 100 thousand dollar Z06 Vette as well as the lesser sibling being shown at the show was a appalling. :sick: Wow.
I agree, but BMW took that basic design tenet and made the hit X6, followed by Honda Crosstour, etc.
What's ugly today is beautiful tomorrow, and then ugly again next week.
But ever since the Aztek, it seems like a lot of things started getting exaggerated. Headlights, taillights, grilles, random creases and slashes here and there. Bad proportioning, with cars that don't know whether they want to be a sedan or a fastback, so they try to split the middle, and so forth.
momcat
Like Andre, said, cheap compacts tend to have tough lives. I don't see many Cavaliers or Escorts on the road anymore either and millions of those were sold. I had an 86 escort in HS that I beat the hell out off, similar to the Hyundai my sister had, it made it to about 110k or when it blew a head gasket and I got rid of it.
There was an apparently-rare option to have a body-colored rear panel on those cars. I used to see a white one running around here and it looked halfway decent with that setup, a bit reminiscent of a late-90s Skyline.
Taillight-panels work on rectilinear shapes, but not on that oddball inverted-chevron shape cribbed from a 1962 Chevrolet.
That Malibu was basically an Americanized Opel Vectra, so it ended up being a Euro-midsize. The rear end is almost identical to the Vectra, but part of the Americanization was the ugly nose. The failure to relocate the headlights for the refresh didn't help any.
Also remember that GM had higher sales for many years than they do now. They still lost $$ at those higher sales rates that led to bankruptcy. Profits matter. And GM needs large profits based on the amount of capital they have tied up. How much profit is GM making compared to the billions and billions of $$ tied up in GM?
Corvette sales in June of 2010 were almost the same as sales in June of 2009. Dealers delivered 1,405 Corvettes over the 25 sales days of the month, compared to 1,396 in June of last year. Year to date in 2010, total Corvette sales have been 6,355, compared to 7,498 for the same period last year, a 15.2% decrease.
Hmmm.....
Regards,
OW
The Corvette is a great vehicle in many ways, but it is now long-in-the-tooth from a style perspective.
Regards,
OW
I wonder if they'll let you test drive one.
A friend was in the market recently, and the local Corvette dealer refused to even take him for a test drive as a passenger unless he filled out financial paperwork first.
He said "screw that", went down the road one mile, to the BMW dealer, placed an order and paid cash for a new M3 convertible...fully loaded.
And, before anyone asks, he is a neat, well dressed fellow, and looks nothing like a bum. I have heard of other instances exactly like the one I just described.
You can't sell 'em if you won't at least let a potential buyer ride in 'em.
Probably it was a matter where the dealer was being shortsighted in trying to keep the customer "captive", thinking of themselves, and not thinking of what overall is good for GM.
That is 1 reason I thought GM should have went totally out-of-business, and reemerged the next day as HN Motors or some such. GM could have broken their outdated dealer network, and setup something much more efficient (though I somehow doubt from history, that they would be capable of doing so).
I had once suggested that GM should have a regional sales-office, where all their vehicles were available for test-drives. There would be no dealers with a lot of inventory (but no Vettes for test-drives), probably vehicles that may not be the way customers want them painted or optioned. Customers would go to the regional sales-office, test-drive the vehicle, and then sit-down with the sales staff, and design their vehicle. Every vehicle would be custom-ordered and built. I would be very happy to be a customer in such a process, as going to the typical dealer is liking getting a root canal.
Model Fleet %
Aveo 23.4%
Cobalt 32.2%
Impala 57.7%
Rentibu 30.1%
Rentibu hybrid 60%
Camaro 14.5%
HHR 54.8%
Equinox 14.9%
Traverse 14.6%
Suburban 35.5%
Tahoe 30.1%
This is just the Chevy end of things!
There is no "taking issue" here. Facts show Fleet sales prop up Government Motors figures
BIG TIME.
An "experienced" salesperson approached him and tried to sterr him toward lesser-priced models on the show room floor. My friend was upset and told her he had no interest in those cars and was serious about buying a Corvette. A young guy who just started about a week ago approached my friend and took his request seriously, let him test drive the Corvette, explained all the features, and ultimately got the sale.
A few days later when my friend and I drove over to get the car, the "experienced" salesperson was muttering, "I wouldn't buy a car like that anyway." I walked over to her and said, "Don't rain on his parade! This is all he talked about for the last five years!" The greenpea got a fat commission on the sale of a Corvette and the older lady outsmarted herself.
It's interesting how the tables have turned over the years. I always use the 1978-83 Malibu and its siblings as the benchmark of what a midsized car should be. Not in quality or performance necessarily, but in overall size, interior room, and trunk space. And in how well the car fits me, personally.
Well, nowadays, cars like the Accord, Camry, and Altima feel more in range of the 1978-83 Malibu...a "true" midsized car, IMO. While the Fusion, Sebring/Avenger, and Malibu/Aura/G6, feel more like a compact to me. In fact, looking up interior volumes, today's Malibu is around the same size inside as the old 1980-85 Citation and other X-bodies.
I've driven a few Malibus and I do like them, so it would be big enough for me. But, I'd just prefer something a little larger.
I did significant research – for months, before requesting a Corvette test drive.
Many dealers, particularly those with low allocations, would not [ then ] allow test drives. Period. Partly, this appears to be because many potential buyers do not want any Test Drive Miles on the Corvette they purchase.
Almost Catch 22.
Yet, when I contacted the largest local dealer ( near Atlanta ) I was very pleasantly surprised when (before even meeting me in person ) the Corvette sales person responded via email:
“We do allow test drives on coupes & convertibles. I don’t understand
dealers that don’t. I wouldn’t buy a $50 pair of shoes without trying them
on, much less a $50,000 car”
The test drives ( I wrote & posted my impressions elsewhere ) convinced me that the C6 would be an acceptable Daily Driver – as well as a fun car to drive!
( A given. )
- Ray
Sorry – but not surprised to see ‘Vette sales so far down from peak . . .
The link also answers some questions like the split between Genesis sedan and coupe sales (70/30) and how many Corolla sales are actually the Matrix (about 10%).
That body-color option was fairly common when the Impala first came out. As I recall, there was an "SS" appearance package that gave you some ribs & wings, different alloy wheels from the LS, and that body-color rear. No performance boosts, though, and you could get it on the base or LS. I remember seeing one that stickered for about $30,000! And this was back around 2000-2001!
The body-color rear insert may have also been a stand-alone option. I wish that SS travesty I witnessed was just a figment of my imagination, but alas it was not! At least it wasn't long before Chevy started putting supercharged 3.8's in there and made a somewhat more proper SS.
You do realize that if your answer is less than 25% then your post is 'spinning'?
Yeah, that was horrible. Like the MonteCarlo SS with a n/a 3800, what a joke.