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Though I do love the old 1950s and 1960s Mercedes just because of their horrendously loud and purely mechanical nature. It's the same feeling that you get when you see an old steam locomotive still in service - there's something very cool about low-tech brute-force engineering.
Would I buy a new GM? No.
A December to Remember, from General Motors!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
note - the difficult part of course is fixing all of the old and corroding parts that are 40-50 years old. But once that is done(and often for less than a new Civic or similar), they'll last another 20 years without major issues.
But, of course, they aren't for everyone. My 230S got 15-18mpg, took a long time to get up to speed(even with a manual we were talking 15 seconds), and the carbs were always needing adjustment(rule of thumb - always get the fuel injected classic Mercedes). It did drive on the highway as well as any modern full-sized sedan, though, which always impressed me. Upgrading the tires and brakes to more modern parts made it into a whole new vehicle.
This makes the Nissan Leaf the best rated vehicle ever : 99 mpg.
My son just commented last night how his 98 Mustang V6 has been a good car. He's had it 5 years and put 35k miles on it. Tires are the major expense since buying it with 83k miles on it.
2 yrs ago a belt separated and the tire dealer was only willing to cover half the expense of a replacement. He said the worn out struts ruined the tire in 15,000 miles. According to him, the replacement tire should be ruined by now. It's been another 20,000 miles and the strut is even older and more worn out. Next time I will rotate a separated belt tire to the rear before bringing it in for a warranty claim.
I don't like driving it because of the factory headers and the whiney Ford trans combine to make it noisy inside and out. Reliability is very good. In it's 13th year, it required a radiator cap, coolant top off, and a tire rotation.
Is the Mustang a 3.8 or something better? I knew someone who had a V6 Stang of that era...horrible engine noise and less than quality interior, also not a good performer, in essence a 2 door Taurus.
My car is a FI model, thankfully. Needs almost no maintenance, no cold running issues, no syncing of the carbs. It can get 20 on the highway, and like you say, has a highway driving quality as good as a modern car.
Ask me how I know
I thought a V-6 '98 Mustang would be a bit quicker than that, but then I looked up the specs for the 3.8: 150 hp and 215 ft-lb of torque. So, more of a cruiser than a bruiser.
I know they got that 3.8 up to something like 190-200 hp, but I don't think that was a year or two later. I think I saw a 0-60 time of around 7.1 seconds for one of these, which ain't too bad, in my opinion.
BTW, how's that Riviera doing these days? I still admire those cars. My 2000 Park Ave has been pretty good so far. It'll be a year on December 14 that I brought it home, and I've put about 10,000 miles on it. I'm probably into it about $440 so far, which includes all maintenance, an emissions test, changing the supercharger oil, and two swaybar links. It does need a few things though...rear window defroster quit working. Passenger door window got stuck the other day, but started working again. And I suspect it needs new struts, which surprises me for only 66,500 miles. My Intrepid didn't bounce this bad at 150,000 miles, and it was on its original struts! Unless the PA is just supposed to bounce like that?
If you always drive around with a half tank, you may as well throw in two or three full sand bags too. Knock the mileage down another few tenths. I bet real hypermilers never fill their tanks over half full.
Yeah, but if you're constantly running on a half tank and never letting it get full, wouldn't you have some evaporation? Maybe that's not a big deal with the tighter, closed systems of today.
I think gasoline weighs about 6.25 lb per gallon? So even with a big tank, like the 26 gallon tank in my '67 Catalina, you're only talking about 162.5 lb. My Park Ave has a 17 gallon tank, so that would be about 106.25 lb, full.
I don't think an amount of weight that small is going to make much difference, unless you have a vehicle that's already underpowered for its weight, and is already straining.
I think the real test would be to look at what the fleets do. I'd be curious if there was a fleet operations manual out there that recommended that the drivers keep their tanks filled up to avoid fuel pump problems. Even on empty there's usually a gallon or more of gas in the tank.
Meanwhile, GM Says Thanks To Nation For Helping Them Get Back Up and channels John Belushi no less. (Edmunds Daily)
How much weight difference between a Prius with 1/4 and 3/4 tank? 42 lbs?
When I've had performance automobiles, I've especially tried to make them as light as possible. I don't usually have rear-seat passengers, so out come the rear-headrests; helps visibility too, keep the winshield washer reservoir 1/4 full, looked into light-weight batteries. It's not the individual savings from any 1 thing that will lighten your vehicle and give better mpg, it's the tens-of-things you do to find 1 or 2 LB here or there that can help. Over the years you'd probably pay for a nice vacation.
On the subject of fuel economy, according to the trip computer I got around 28 mpg on that trip, but I didn't do the pen and paper method yet. Not too bad, I guess, for a supercharged Park Ave running speeds that occasionally got up to 80 or so.
You've probably got a lot of life left in that PA--many years, I thinking.
But if somehow that thing died tomorrow, what do you think you might consider to replace it? Would you ever buy new again a la the Intrepid, or are you into only used these days?
I really don't know what I'd do if the Park Ave died tomorrow. If I was going with a brand-new car, I'd consider something like an Altima, Acord, Fusion, or Malibu, in no particular order. And for some reason, the Mazda6 is starting to grow on me a bit. I dunno if I'd go for a Malibu though. It's not a bad car, and I liked it when it came out, but it just seems like its magic has worn off. And, I wouldn't go for a fancy, decked-out car...just a 4-cyl, and just nicely equipped enough that it has a sunroof.
As for used, well if the Park Ave died because of a wreck or another parking lot hit-and-run, I might actually seek out another one if I could find one that had the same combination of miles, features, condition, and price. Or perhaps a used Bonneville, or maybe even a LeSabre if I could find one with a sunroof.
If, however, the car had to be retired because of some major catastrophic failure, it might spook me enough that I wouldn't want to get another for fear of getting burned twice. However, I dunno if there's really anything in my Park Ave that, if it failed, would make it worthwhile to total it. Maybe if a combination of things went all at once, like the engine, supercharger, and transmission? And once it got to really high miles, if something major went I wouldn't hold it against the car, but with only 66,666 miles on it, I'd be disappointed.
With other used cars, I think I'd also consider something like a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis, or maybe a Charger/300 with the 3.5. But looking around, I've even seen cars like fully-loaded Altimas with the V-6 that seem reasonably priced. I guess with the Japanese cars, the 4-cyl models might hold their value better than the V-6 versions? Even though the V-6 models are still pretty efficient considering their power, I guess the vast majority of buyers are more worried about fuel economy, so they pick the 4-cyl.
If I had it to to all over again, I don't think I would have bought that Intrepid brand-new. It seemed like a great idea at the time though. Less than a year before, I had finally recovered financially from a bad divorce, and just a couple months before, I had refinanced the condo. When I did the math, I figured that the savings on the mortgage payment, plus the fuel savings in going from an '89 Gran Fury police car to the Intrepid, covered the car's $347.66 monthly payment.
And even that $347.66 seemed cheap to me at the time. I knew people who were paying about that for 5-year old Monte Carlos, and 2-year old Trackers and S-10's and such, but these were also younger people with poor credit. I was also still delivering pizzas back in those days, and a half-way decent week at the part time job would actually cover the car's monthly payment. So, at the time, it seemed like a perfect storm of events.
But, looking back, if I really wanted an Intrepid, I probably could have found a low-mileage 1-2 year old example for $12-14K. Interest rates were a lot higher back then though. I remember the credit union wanting something like 6.75-7% for a used car, while Chrysler Financial gave me 0.9%. So, even though the APR was higher, I would've also been financing $6-8K less, which would have resulted in a smaller monthly payment, or getting it paid off quicker.
Ouch...now that's painful! It's funny though, how as time goes by, my perspective on money changes. 11 years ago, that $347.66 per month didn't seem too bad, but I'd hate to have to pay it today! But, I also haven't had to make a car payment in 6 years, so that might be why...it's been so long that I've gotten used to not having one.
I wonder if that's why people often trade in as soon as their car is paid off? They're so used to having a payment, that they feel naked, somehow, without one?
Wow, you paid that car off that quickly?! I'm impressed! I knew you were paying extra each month, but not that much. Haven't you only had it about 3 years?
I really want my 2000 Park Ave to last as long as possible so I don't have to get a replacement, but for a more realistic goal, I want it to at least get to the point that its total cost allocates out to around $250 per month. That's about what my 2000 Intrepid cost, from cradle to grave, 10 years, ~150,000 miles. Plus gas and insurance.
Right now, my Park Ave comes out to around $750 per month, but that's because I paid for it all at once, and haven't even had it for a year yet. My estimate is that it'll come down to around $250/month sometime in early 2013, unless anything really major fails on it.
Still, these are Mexican built IIRC... Still not great. There have been a few reports of this and even a recall for "Premium Fuel required" otherwise similar consequences...