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Comments
Better perf score with 25 less HP and drum brakes??? Maybe the Tundra is lighter after the spare tire falls out from under the bed.
Equal fuel ecom scores with both prem gas needed in Tundra and EPA rating lower for Tundra, V8 to V8.
CG result... Tundra 50, Chev 37.
The 50 to 37 score was probably dictated by the editor before the test vehicles even arrived. I wonder if CR or their subscribers use the same tactic of predetermination?
There are plenty of gullible out there and CG knows it.
I'm actually surprised to see Consumer Guide pulling that kind of stuff. I usually held them in higher regard than Consumer Reports. At least, in the 1980's, they seemed a little more objective. I have a 1985 auto issue, and there were plenty of domestic cars that scored well. Of course, most of them were the older, RWD mid- and full-sized cars, something Detroit has traditionally done well. And while they came up short with smaller cars, it wasn't a total landslide in favor of the imports. It's not like the Accord and Camry were perfection, while the Cavalier, Reliant, and Topaz were crap. Well, okay, the Topaz WAS crap in that review, but that's beside the point. :P
Are both the Terrain and Equinox built at the same plant? I remember with the older GM W-bodies, the Impala and Century/Regal were built in Canada, at a fairly modern plant, and tended to score pretty well, while the Grand Prix and Intrigue were built in Kansas or someplace in the Midwest, at an older plant, and scored worse.
Or, could the Terrain be built on an assembly line that's sped up, compared to the Equinox? That happened in 1958 with the Edsels versus the Fords and Mercurys they were based on. Instead of devoting the proper amount of manufacturing/assembly effort to put them together properly, they instead shoehorned production into existing factories, and quality suffered. Not that the Fords and Mercurys were much better!
Another guess...which one of the two has higher fleet sales? Whichever it is, I'd think that it would have lower reliability ratings, because those fleet models aren't always lovingly cared for, and then dumped after a year or two, picked up as used cars, which again, may not be cared for as well as a car that someone bought brand-new.
I really couldn't see the demographics of individual buyers making much differece though, with those two. Not like in the old days, where some cars would score higher simply because they were bought by older people who weren't as rough on them.
I think stuff like that is clearly sample error, which wouldn't be so bad if CR would ever address or admit that.
What might also happen is that if the owner has the more problem prone drivetrain version, that may cause them to be less tolerant of the little nickel and dime stuff too because they are more dissatisfied with their purchase. That kind of response may irritate the engineers and statisticians, but these perception issues definitely affect consumer attitudes and buying decisions.
I don't have the brochures here, but I gotta believe there isn't anything you could get on the GMC, option-wise, that you couldn't get on the Chevy.
I suppose at least some of you have heard that transmissions built in the same plant and used in upper and lower level divisions were sorted according to how they tested for noise, etc. I can't vouch for the truth of it, but wouldn't be surprised if it were so.
Perhaps the GMC emblem falls off more than the Chevy emblem? :shades:
As for the 4-cyl versus V-6, maybe there's something different in the a/c components and fuel delivery system between the two, and the V-6 uses higher-quality components, or some other factor at play?
Sample error will happen, of course, but I can't really believe it's anything more than that.
No I don't think so. I don't like that, but I guess it saves them space. Frankly, I'd rather they just give a combined 4 and 6 rating for very similar models.
Read the Equinox blogs, I do think there are some teething problems on the 4 banger models. I expect they'll get resolved by next year's model.
GMC is near the bottom of JD Power dependability survey and I know why. Might not be apparent to others, however. I know, JD Power is just as bad as CR. But dead nuts on, in my case.
Honda near the top and GMC near the bottom. :shades:
Regards,
OW
I have an '08 Cobalt XFE. I paid $9,900 for it...brand-new after my $2K in GM card earnings. I have 45K miles on it now. I did have control arm bushings put in free under warranty for a front-end noise, done while I was there for an oil change. Only one side made noise, but they replaced both free. My Uplander has over 92K miles with no out-of-pocket repairs for trans or engine as is often the case with Odysseys (don't believe me? Check the number of posts in Edmunds for Odyssey trans). I'm not saying a Cobalt or an Uplander are cutting-edge, but as is usually the case, the truth for how good or bad something is is usually somewhere in the middle. I always think if I pay way less for a car, even if it does have more downtime (as long as it doesn't stop running...something that has never happened on a GM car for me in thirty years), I'm still ahead rather than taking it in the *** up front by paying a lot and being treated disdainfully by the sales dept. of the dealer (which sure seems more commonplace at import brands from everything one reads). But hey, that's me.
I'm fussy too, that's why it's so hard for me to drive a domestic. If I took my Ford and GM cars to the dealer every time something annoyed me, I'd be at the dealer more than at home. I don't know how anyone who claims to be fussy can be satisfied with 90% of the crap GM and Ford have peddled over the past 10+ years.
All it usually takes is a one walk around a car. Very few domestics can pass that test. While filling up my wife's '11 Taurus this evening I was looked over the panel alignments again. It's really bad, nothing lines up right. It is a decent driving and decent performing car, by far better than any of the GM crap my wife's had to drive prior and the gas mileage is surprisingly good too. But my God, it looks like the tolerances all stacked up against this one particular Taurus.
If I were actually paying for the car, I'd tell the dealer it's unacceptable.
I can put up with mechanical failure far more than design and performance issues, which is where most of the problems with domestics are. Unrefined engines, transmissions that upshift to soon and downshift to slow, or sometimes don't even know what gear they're suppose to be in. Suspension that are poorly tuned/designed etc. That pretty much describes every GM vehicle I've driven.
Now that's downright scary! I don't think anyone in my family ever had ANY car get up to $2500 worth of repairs by 46K miles. My grandparents bought an '82 Malibu Classic wagon that they grew to hate very quickly, partly because the rear door windows didn't roll down, and partly because the 229 V-6 was too gutless for a ~3400 lb car. As for repairs, I remember the ECU failed on it, out of warranty, of course. That was a ~$450 repair. And then it failed again, and Granddad got fed up and traded it on a new '85 LeSabre, that turned out to be one of the best cars they ever owned. Heck, I wish my 2000 Park Ave was as durable/reliable as that '85 LeSabre was!
I'd like not to have to deal with either, but given the choice, I'd much rather not have to deal with a problem with the engine or transmission.(of course I don't because I always get something with manual)
Then the PS pump blew while she was driving! Then the A/C compressor @ 50K. Then the water pump at 55K. Then the Air Bag Sensor at 60K.
Just some small stuff that I was fussy about when I asses if a company makes junk or the best cars in the world. But that's just me. :mad:
You've heard this before and soon I'll never post it again.....as soon as GM is unfunded by the taxpayers and all the junk is weeded out of the product line and the idiots at the dealers are toasted away (including the finance managers who will continue to keep GM in a bad light). :surprise:
Regards,
OW
So even if repairs were even (which their not, an economy american car can cost more to repair than a Ferrari), the foreign car comes out on top by over $2,500 simply due to plummeting value in the domestic.
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Absolutely they are. The Grand Prix my wife had for 3 1/2 years and 85k miles was pretty much trouble free. Rattles, crude powertrain, uncomfortable, road terrible, handled just as bad. I mean, I can go on and on. So yea, reliability and quality are completely different things IMO. Pretty much the same thing with the Tauruses my wife had in the mid '00. Perfectly reliable, but nothing about them were quality. I sure as hell wouldn't spend my money on it. We could drive the Grand Prix for free and I refused. I'd drive the Expedition instead, despite 15mpg and $4 gas. At least the new Taurus is good enough that I'll actually drive it.
I've only been truly stranded twice. Once in a Ford and once in a Buick over my 24 years of driving. Even when the transmission went out in my Suburban I wasn't left stranded on the side of the road. None of the $6k in repairs from 45-80k required a tow truck.
I don't base my opinions on magazines or hear say. I'm basing my opinions on the vehicles I've owned. Very few of the domestic vehicles have stood out in regards to quality. I have had a few that were reliable during the time I've had them (I've kept very few cars past 100k miles) Usually the rattles and overall deterioration cause me to replace them.
Panel fit doesn't fuss me out
IMO it shows attention to detail and for whatever reason it's something that just stands out to me and is just one piece of the puzzle when comparing vehicles.
What happend when a PS pump 'blows'? My friend had the pump shaft come completely out of his on a chev truck that was 20 yrs old with 250k miles on it. It ruined the radiator.
The PS never went out on Suburban but I did put up with a intermittent problem that it would lose assist at idle, it made parking fun. The PS pump made an awful whining/groaning sound the last 6 months she had it. It never failed but sounded like it was going to.
Ironically I was at a shopping center the other day and I heard the same moaning PS sound. I looked over and it was a late model Grand Prix.
I can't remember how they did with reliability ratings, but I do remember CR trashing a '79 St. Regis and rating it well below the LTD and Caprice in a comparison test. IIRC, the St. Regis was actually delivered with a cracked torsion bar!
I have a 1984 auto issue packed away somewhere, but haven't laid eyes on it in ages. The used car data covered the years 1978-83. I think CR had "insufficient data" for the 1979-81 R-body, although they might have had some data for 1979; I can't remember. That was the only year they built a reasonable number, something like 77K Newports, 54K New Yorkers, and 34K St. Regises.
I do have a Consumer Guide used car book that covers 1977-86, and I remember them saying the cars rated well below Ford and GM rivals in most respects. It also said you're best off avoiding the '79 models and picking an '80-81 or, better yet, pick another car entirely!
Gotta love that GMC dependability and professional-grade quality for their parts bin!! :lemon:
Regards,
OW
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This is from the recall:
Condition
General Motors has decided that a defect, which relates to motor vehicle safety, exists in certain 2004 Chevrolet Kodiak and GMC TopKick; 2004-2005 Chevrolet Avalanche, Express, Silverado, Suburban; GMC Savana, Sierra, Yukon XL; and HUMMER H2 vehicles. On some of these vehicles, the hydraulic brake booster’s pressure accumulator may crack and/or separate from the Hydro-Boost® assembly during normal vehicle operating conditions. If a separation were to occur and the hood of the vehicle were open, fragments from the accumulator could cause injury to people in the immediate area. In addition, the presence of this crack or fractured surface could allow the hydraulic fluid to leak from the accumulator circuit of the booster assembly. The loss of fluid would cause increased steering and braking effort.
You can lose brake and steering assist simultaneously. YIKES!
I've had a few of them fail. Not necessarily "blow", though. First was a 1968 Dodge Dart. It was broken when I bought it. I had it re-sealed, and it failed again a few years later. I just left it, drove it that way for about 40,000 miles, and had really nicely toned arms as a result! :P
Had one fail on a '79 Chrysler Newport, and that thing was just too heavy to drive without power steering, so I got it fixed pretty quickly. And, about two years ago, it started to fail on my '79 New Yorker, but fortunately that was just a bad hose.
I think newer cars, especially nose-heavy FWD cars, with rack-and-pinion steering, are harder to control when the power steering goes, than those older cars with the recirculating-ball type. And, of course, a heavy SUV would be a pain as well.
Of course the lack of P/S hasn't had any ill effect on Popeye:
Yeah, that was probably another thing that made the Dart a little easier to steer than my '79 Newport or NYer, that larger steering wheel.
I remember letting a friend take his driver's test in my Dart, and he flubbed almost immediately. The cop administering the test then made him get in the passenger seat and the cop had to drive my car through the whole course. My buddy said the dude was cursing my car the whole time!
the recall affects only certain 20-11 model year cars. In the posting, they say a 2008 model is used for the stock photo.
Oops
Terrible incident, but thankfully not the two recalls the Hyundai Sonata had by this time in the production run.
Regards,
OW
Car had been matched to wrong steering wheel on assembly line and had been "repaired" with correct steering wheel at the factory. Something wasn't done right by the followup repair guy/gal.
"In documents filed with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the car maker said it traced the problem with that particular car to a case in which the wrong wheel was put in a car and replaced later in the assembly process with the correct one. But the new wheel wasn’t attached properly, the car maker says."
http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2011/04/10/chevy-recalls-cruze-after-a-steerin- g-wheel-falls-off/?mod=google_news_blog
Move along. Nothing to see here.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
OK...
CHEVROLET The bolts that fasten the automatic transmission torque converter of some 2011 Camaros may need to be replaced. In T.S.B. 10432 issued on Jan. 3, General Motors said a campaign to replace the bolts applied to models with the 6.2-liter V-8 engine. The factory-installed bolts may not be properly sized to secure the torque converter, leading to a clanking sound.
GENERAL MOTORS Some 2011 Chevrolet Equinox and GMC Terrain crossovers may have a dashboard electrical problem causing the battery to drain. In T.S.B. 11004 issued on Jan. 10, G.M. said backlighting in the instrument panel might illuminate even after the vehicle is shut off. Reprogramming the module that controls the lighting, and charging the battery, should solve the issue.
Also, some 2008-9 Cadillac CTS and 2009 Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5 models may develop a problem with their ignition locks. In T.S.B. 10256 issued on Dec. 14, G.M. said the key might get stuck in the ignition switch and the vehicle might not shut off if it is running. Replacing the ignition lock cylinder should free things up.
Regards,
OW
Oh, now that's just plain mean.
Give your friend who's learning to drive one of the worst cars ever made to try it in. Is he still your friend? :P
Give your friend who's learning to drive one of the worst cars ever made to try it in. Is he still your friend?
Nah, haven't talked to him in ages. We'd had a falling out years ago, and last I heard, he went to prison for carjacking someone with a toy gun. :surprise:
The Dart was actually a last resort. At first, we borrowed his cousin's Mercury Lynx to take the test in, but the cops wouldn't let him take the test with it because it had a huge crack in the windshield.
It can't come off accidentally if it is not supplied!