You are absolutely correct and I stand corrected. I guess I wasn't used to seeing '2011' written as '20-11'.
On that subject, anybody notice how blogs and other online reporting seem to have notably less quality of spelling and punctuation like this, than newspapers?
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
On that subject, anybody notice how blogs and other online reporting seem to have notably less quality of spelling and punctuation like this, than newspapers?
Yeah, it's called being "lazy", and if anyone that thinks it's okay to be "lazy" because it's "only" a blog or an online posting should be sent back to their elementary school writing classes.
There were 3 individuals in the car, one of them a child! And this "manufacturing defect" occured on the highway, doning 65mph!
I'm sorry, but where is the hysteria? Where is the investigation? Where is the coal raking that a certain japanese company was put thru for over a year?
If someone died in this (which thankfully they did not) do we write it off as no big deal as well?
Man, the double standards are unbelievable. :confuse:
Did GM hide the problem from 2002 on by misreporting the information to the NHSTA?
Did GM try to suggest it was the floor mats causing the problem?
Did GM suggest that it was a sticking accelerator pedal causing the problem/
Did GM cut off funding to the university researcher who found that certain electronics in the car weren't really up to par and might be causing the steering wheel to come off?
Just one car where a fixer who repairs flaws caught on the assembly line did the WRONG thing. Terrible mistake.
"Nothing more to see here! More along!" as someone used to say on one of the other forums :P
I took my test in my Dad's 1978 Ford Granada coupe and passed the first time. My then girlfriend offered her 1969 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham, but I didn't think I could do the three point turn portion of the test with it without hitting either curb! :P
I took my test in a nearly new 92 Sunbird that belonged to a family friend - I wanted to do it in the smallest car possible, and I think the old Tempo was having one of its hiccup episodes that I didn't want to risk dealing with on a test. Breezed through it on the first try.
You've got it! It's a FEATURE! They shouldn't be recalling it; they should charge extra for it.....
Driver's test - 67 Pontiac Tempest wagon. No problem.
Funny thing - I have twin brothers that are 15 months younger than me. The day before their license test one of them takes a curve too wide and hits a 57 Chevy head on. Enough damage to have to be repaired and such but both cars drove away and no one was hurt. There was, however, a nice new fresh dent on the hood of the Tempest.
The next day they go for the test and the guys at the DMV see the two of them coming and the dent and are laughing themselves silly and ask immediately "which one?" while pointing at the dent. The younger (by five minutes) twin raises his hand. They also both passed just fine.
My folks got an estimate on the damage, made my brother pay them for it but never did get it fixed.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Probably 90% of the sales are to US Government agencies...Somebody has to buy the silly car and we the taxpayers cover the rebate!!!!! After going through 51 cars so far in my long life, the Volt would rank last place as a must to "save the planet" and make our dysfunctional government happy..The $$$$$s spent on this abomination could have been used to develop some energy-efficient engines that could be driven without worrying about the next taxpayer funded charging station..
About 60% of my auto purchases were GM, with one still in the fleet, pre-Obama takeover, and the other is a Ford Mustang GT. GM has made some great autos in the past, and their offerings really do not excite me..The latest Camaro almost did the trick, but is a little on the porky side, and lost out to the Mustang..
My first car at 14 was a 35 Ford Coupe, loud and fun, driving the backroads of north-central Indiana..fun days..2 Porsches in Germany back in the late 50s when the entire autobahn was a no-limit speed haven..
Cars and driving back in the old days was a blast, now-a-days it is a pain-in-the-backside..
I wish GM lots of luck for I supplied lots parts to them over the years, and it was a fun-trip..
Hope you GM fans didn't load up on their stock at initial offering!!!!!!! The Chinese own much of GM and the Italians now own about 30% of Chrysler..Quite a flip-flop from the good old days.. The Buick is one of the Chinese favorite rides and I am sure it will influence the USA market...or turn it off...
I think some of you posters need to put down your acid filled beakers. Personal bias is trumping reasonable statements. I believe the Prius was/is a revolutionary vehicle and a real plus for Toyota and the world. This morning, I talked to a Prius owner who said the Volt was worthless because it could only get 40 MPG. I asked him what his Prius mileage would be if he had to tow a 3000 lb horse and trailer. The point is that if you're not able to use the Volt in the electric mode most all of the time, a Prius would be a better choice. People who drive the Volt without using much gas at all are reporting the equivalent of between 75 and 150 MPG. This is a big step forward. Used properly, the Volt is leap frogging the Prius. I just cannot imagine anyone who has seen this car and knows anything at all about it can use the word "abomination" to describe it. Let's keep it real folks.
The Volt is neat but it also leapfrogged the Prius by having an MSRP that is twice the price... before ADM.
And, being a brand new design, I find it hard to justify, nor would I want to be a guinnae pig with over 41 grand invested. Heck, 22k dollar Snuze's have steering wheels that could fall off for pete's sake, how long has Government Motors been designing cars? I'm sorry but that's embarrassing. What sort of goofs has the Volt got waiting down the line?
At least with the Prius, you're buying a third generation vehicle, with a million or so on the roads that have proven to be well built and quite reliable in typical Toyota fashion. Again, for half the cost...
I have next to no interest in either but if I suddenly discovered 45 grand in my wallet and was forced to buy one, I'd spend the 22k on the yota and spend the other 20 grand on a Miata or just buy a 3 series, G37 or Acura TL-S :shades:
Well, new technology does cost money. I have a friend who just traded his last generation Prius for the latest generation. The last generation Prius cost him $34K. This man loves his new Prius; it's getting 57 MPG. People are always comparing the bare bones Prius to the standard Volt. That is not a fair comparison.
I always hesitate to purchase a first generation anything. Also, wasn't it one steering wheel that fell off a Cruze? Toyota's unintended acceleration resulted in 100 or so deaths, correct? Which is a bigger problem?
Also, there was a first generation Prius. Car makers have to start somewhere.
As I've stated before on this forum, I want to buy a Volt or a Leaf and use my solar plant to recharge the car for my 28 mile round trip commute. It might not make the most sense moneywise, but I'm trying to cut down on gasoline use. I don't want to make these shieks any richer than they already are.
Your car choices are fine choices. I'm looking to upgrade to a new Z06 ans soon as this Volt/Leaf stuff is out of the way.
Hope you GM fans didn't load up on their stock at initial offering!!!!!!!
I got seduced into it, but only bought 40 shares. Ended up selling it a couple weeks ago, took a loss of maybe 8-10%. But, I just checked and it's fallen another 5% since then! If it falls too much, that might be the time to buy some back!
At least with the Prius, you're buying a third generation vehicle, with a million or so on the roads that have proven to be well built and quite reliable in typical Toyota fashion
The 2010 Toyota Prius has the highest number of complaints to NHTSA of any late model car. The total of 1570 complaints ( many about dangerous brake issues) is over 30 times the number of complaints for the Chevy Malibu(48).
Read a story yrs ago that a S. Fl. Prius dealer bragged about how when there was a $5k premium on the cars, he was able to spend a lot of time cruising the intercoastal waterway in his yacht with twin 8.2 Liter engines.
Rated it 5th out of 5 cars. But called the interior 'first in class'. Complained about the exterior styling and spent half the article on how it was designed in S. Korea. That way they could still say that GM still can't produce a good small car. They put down the Cavalier and Cobalt while at it but hoped that the Cobalt SS 240 HP drivetrain would get put in the Cruze.
I once got 45 mpg on a 250 mile round trip in a '00 Cavalier rental. The efficiency of the Cavalier was remarkable for a time when gas was 89 cents. Upon returning the car, it took only $5 to top it off at the Youngstown airport. Back then, I made a safe living making parts exclusively for V8 engines. Now, I work on stuff that burns 100 gallons just getting down the runway, so people can save time getting to the GW conference.
Yeah, it gets me how either they rag about the cars not being an Aston Martin or some other hod rod asphalt destroyer or about subjective stuff like how it looks.
Well, all cars look pretty much like jellybeans and it's highly subjective. But nobody buys a budget car like this and expects it to be a pimped-out set of wheels. They want it to be better than the previous generation, decently reliable, and do its job of not using a ton of gas. The Cruze works at doing this and is a compelling alternative if you don't want to buy something made in Japan.
They did love the Eco version with manual, though. Go figure. I think the 40+mpg they got on the highway made them see it in a new light?
I also love how on Car and Driver's main web page, they have a banner saying how the Cruze got the Canadian Car of the Year Award. :P
If you look at the EPA specs, it's actually mid-size (though just barely), so it's not really in the same class as something like, say, a Focus. It's certainly heavier than a typical compact, which is good in a way in terms of safety and stability at higher speeds.
Yes, the EPA has notified GM that they are in error and this should be "fixed" for the 2012 models.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass/Midsize_Cars2011.shtml It's tied with the Elantra for the highest MPG non-hybrid in that list. That's really worth adding a few points to the review, IMO. GM's got an engine there that is plainly better than what Toyota or Honda have.
4 Cylinder Camry, stick, 22/26/33 3263 Lbs. 4 Cylinder Cruze, stick. 28/33/42 3102 Lbs. Much, much better engine and gearbox if it can do that while weighing about 150lbs less. That's almost diesel car figures. For that, with manual helping me zip around better in traffic, I can deal with less power and raw straight-line speed. Typical commuting behavior is getting closer to 38-40 combined from reports as well. I think it's worth the extra $2K over the base model given that it's 5-6mpg better.
It's a good car. You know, it's not an IS250 or a C class, but then again, for $18K in this crazy inflation type economy, what do you expect? Note how bread prices have gone up WAY faster the last three years than car prices - $18K is almost nothing lately.
I've read a view articles regarding the Cruze. Seems like most have positive comments about the car itself, but the powertrain seems to be the weak spot. Particularly in the area of responsiveness and refinement.
Hyperbole runs rampant on these forums. I might try a Volt if the price wasn't so prohibitive and/or if they made it a little more luxurious and called it a Buick Volt. I can't see spending $40K on a Chevrolet if it isn't a Corvette. Getting 75-150 MPG would be great if not just to thumb my nose at the oil speculators and their co-conspirators. One thing for sure, the Volt is a lot prettier than a Prius.
Well, I'm sure SOMEBODY had to be the guinea pig for the Prius three generations back. Anybody remember the original Honda Insight? I thought it was a neat little "bullet car" with the skirted wheels and all.
Also, wasn't it one steering wheel that fell off a Cruze?
Yup, but they recalled 2500 of them so there were 2499 more chances of the same thing happening... This one happened at 65mph with three people in the car including one child...
Wow, you have a solar plant? That's pretty cool. :shades: I agree that the overall goal to ween ourselves off foriegn oil should be a priority and both the Leaf and the Volt are fine choices and fine starts. I just don't think the 41 thousand dollar entry fee to get 30 or so gas free miles is worth it, especially the penalty of dragging around 500 lbs of battery weight after the charge is depleted, achieving less mpg's than a conventional Toyota Corolla.
The Leaf is a better choice IMO, even if the real world data is showing 75 or so miles on a charge instead of the promised 100 mile range. I like it for the fact that it solves another dilema besides the fuel dependancy...
absolute zero emmisions. :shades:
Good luck with your purchase! And kudos on the Solar!
One thing for sure, the Volt is a lot prettier than a Prius.
Definitely. I'm surprised they don't go with a conventional engine version for a fraction of the cost. Could've helped pay for the tooling to build the 10k Volts...
I might try a Volt if the price wasn't so prohibitive and/or if they made it a little more luxurious and called it a Buick Volt. I can't see spending $40K on a Chevrolet if it isn't a Corvette. Getting 75-150 MPG would be great if not just to thumb my nose at the oil speculators and their co-conspirators. One thing for sure, the Volt is a lot prettier than a Prius.
That pretty much sums up how I feel. First off, the Volt isn't available around here yet so it's a moot point. The Volt is probably a good choice for certain people, but I'm not convinced I'm that person yet. I just don't drive enough to spend that much money on that type of car.
Seems like most have positive comments about the car itself, but the powertrain seems to be the weak spot. Particularly in the area of responsiveness and refinement.
40+mpg is certainly high-tech and refined from a technical aspect. If this was a Honda, they'd be probably praising how "You can hear the V-Tech engage at higher RPMs" or some nonsense like that. They expect a Chevrolet to be as quiet as a Lexus? (It apparently would have to be to please them enough) Give me a break.
True, the automatic, while "only" being built by the best company that builds automatics (btw), is reliable, it is sluggish like all GM automatics. Then again, you really have to be daft to get the automatic in a high MPG car like this if they offer a manual. You lose 6 MPG and "gain" a realistic 20% slower acceleration and response by getting the automatic.
Given the horrible state of our economy, getting a car that's built in Ohio is a huge deal. If we want to have any heavy industry left in the U.S. in 30 years, and NOT end up like the U.K., we have to keep money from flowing overseas at such insane rates as it does now.
So, yes, a compelling alternative to the imports is an important thing. I'd settle for 90% as good to help our country. Though, to be honest, most of the budget imports are flimsy feeling, plasticky, and have seats as hard as a rock. It's really very minor differences between any of these vehicles as none of them are really "real" cars. They're what you buy to save gas and get from point A to B.
IMO, you should chose the domestic in such a case. Or buy something better used.
It's really very minor differences between any of these vehicles as none of them are really "real" cars. They're what you buy to save gas and get from point A to B.
I don't believe the differences are minor. My wallet and bank account prove my point that the diffferences are MAJOR.
-Domestic Dodge 65K miles cost 4 tow truck trips plus about $5K to keep running over about 5-6 years. -'92 Honda Civic had for 2 years and about 35K miles and put about 1,000 dollars into it and sold it for $500 less than paid for it originally. Most of that 1,000 went to replace wear items, like brakes/rotors, but not all. - 2003 Honda Accord Coupe V6 Had for 50 months (4 years and 2 months), 65,000 miles, sold for 53% of my out the door costs (tax,title, licensing included), and spent exactly $0.00 on repairs outside of normal maintenance (granted, Honda did pay to replace the tranny outside of warranty at 42K miles, but they did it acting embarrassed instead of acting like I was inconveniencing them, did it in two days, and provided a free rental while at it). -2005 Honda Civic (flawless built in Japan, no warranty visits, no costs) totalled by careless Jetta driver at approximately 27,000 miles. -2007 Honda Civic (bought as replacement) built in Japan again, yay!. One warranty visit to repair an ill fitting plastic trim piece by the little front A pillar window shaped like a triangle, and a bad window regulator. At about 40,000 miles now with an astounding repair total bill of $0.00 (nothing failing after warranty of course). -2006 Audi A3: Under warranty they replaced the AC compressor (at 53,000 miles, thanks Audi for stepping up like Honda and UNLIKE Dodge/Chrysler). Also under warranty fixed one ill fitting interior trim bit (I blame Lojack for that probably, but they will never say where they hid it). They replaced the center console lid (plastic hinge broke), and the rear seat center armrest cup holder (Germans make the cup holders cheap on purpose to spite Americans). After warranty I've replaced the recirculation valve in the turbo system, a fuel intake runner module, and a window regulator, totaling to about $1,100.00 in 75,000 miles of amazingly fun hard driving (and 6 track days). You could add about another $150 for pre-emptively changing the diverter valve recently (preventive maintenance? LOL) (that's the one that usually fails first I hear), but that was cheap, $100 dollar part and 1/2 hour labor).
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
The thing is that people believe that Honda and Toyota have minimum quality standards. That they have standards at all is something better then what GM and Chrysler can say.
They have no bottom, no standards, no quality control. I won't believe it until there is a NON-GOVT backed warranty like Hyundai's or better (and the current GM warranty in my view is half of Hyundai's).
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
> better then what GM and Chrysler can say. They have no bottom, no standards, no quality control
Do you have any proof with links of having no standards? No quality control?
Otherwise this is just simply an outrageous rant from a hater. (Oh, by the way, you might want to visit the CRV topics about air conditioners failing and honda NOT replacing them free and the transmission discussions at Odyssey topics and the CRV discussion for honda. We all already know about toyota's forage into the world of image-shaping since 2002 when they started misleading the NHSTA with reports that were not honest about problems with toyta/lexuses.
Since this topic is about GM News, New Models, and Market Share, the discussions of problems GM may have had in the past and of the glory of people's favorite foreign brand are not on topic. There needs to be a topic "I Hate GM" for those posters.
Oh, by the way, you might want to visit the CRV topics about air conditioners failing and honda NOT replacing them free and the transmission discussions at Odyssey topics and the CRV discussion for honda.
I know lots of people with CRV's and Oddy's that have had no such trouble, but I've experienced all of the above in one GM vehicle
There needs to be a topic "I Hate GM" for those posters.
lol, why? There is already a "Government Motors fans" forum, this one is more for voicing legitimate criticism and doesn't require rose tinted glasses to view
>Since this topic is about GM News, New Models, and Market Share
Just thinking as hosts should be thinking: that when someone comes to a discussion named GM News, New Models, and Market Share they expect to find a discussion about GM News, New Models, and Market Share rather than some of the other, but pertinent at times, topics that are presented.
You really hit the jackpot, having so many problems all in one vehicle.
Unfortunately it hasn't been just one vehicle. I've had several domestic vehicles that have basically provided me with one repair after another to pay for. But yeah, my Suburban takes top prize for the being the worst. It appears my Expedition doesn't want to be left out either:(
Hyperbole runs rampant on these forums. I might try a Volt if the price wasn't so prohibitive and/or if they made it a little more luxurious and called it a Buick Volt.
Are you suggesting GM rationalize its brand strategy? :P
It depends if you're going on EPA size or market "size". But a fairer comparison would be to say this:
"Show me all cars that get 40mpg or better highway" The Cruze is in the top 5. It's better than the Prius (cost over its lifetime as well as driving dynamics), and completely trashes the Yaris and similar "high MPG" cars (most of which are sub-compacts). And at the end of the year, you know it'll have huge rebates and incentives. Honda maybe $300 off. Toyota, I can't remember WHEN they ever had incentives.
Also, some anecdotal experience with a GM car from 1995 isn't relevant, either. We all know they sucked back then. But it's not the same company any more. Not - neither is Ford, which also makes several good cars. My only gripe is almost everything that's decent/new seems to be made in Mexico. Ford could do a lot of good will and positive PR by keeping jobs in the U.S. Or better yet, moving some back here.
EDIT - also, to add insult to injury, GE is getting those cars at probably fleet pricing. All while paying no tax this year. If I was in charge, I'd tell them that they're getting not one dime of government anything (as well as contracts) at all until they stop playing games and pay their fair share.
I don't think GM has the right to say anything about GE's tax status. IIRC, the new GM is being allowed to carry over millions in tax credits from the old bankrupt GM. Not to mention the bail out money.
My only gripe is almost everything that's decent/new seems to be made in Mexico. Ford could do a lot of good will and positive PR by keeping jobs in the U.S. Or better yet, moving some back here.
I'm sure Ford would have preferred keeping jobs here. Except that it's tough to make a profit when your workforce is unionized, militant, entitled, expects unreasonable salaries and benefits, and won't be flexible due to ridiculous rules.
If I were running a US automaker I would have plan A and plan B - plan A is for the union being reasonable, and plan B is for outsourcing more manufacturing.
Comments
On that subject, anybody notice how blogs and other online reporting seem to have notably less quality of spelling and punctuation like this, than newspapers?
Yeah, it's called being "lazy", and if anyone that thinks it's okay to be "lazy" because it's "only" a blog or an online posting should be sent back to their elementary school writing classes.
There were 3 individuals in the car, one of them a child! And this "manufacturing defect" occured on the highway, doning 65mph!
I'm sorry, but where is the hysteria? Where is the investigation? Where is the coal raking that a certain japanese company was put thru for over a year?
If someone died in this (which thankfully they did not) do we write it off as no big deal as well?
Man, the double standards are unbelievable. :confuse:
Did GM hide the problem from 2002 on by misreporting the information to the NHSTA?
Did GM try to suggest it was the floor mats causing the problem?
Did GM suggest that it was a sticking accelerator pedal causing the problem/
Did GM cut off funding to the university researcher who found that certain electronics in the car weren't really up to par and might be causing the steering wheel to come off?
Just one car where a fixer who repairs flaws caught on the assembly line did the WRONG thing. Terrible mistake.
"Nothing more to see here! More along!" as someone used to say on one of the other forums :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Driver's test - 67 Pontiac Tempest wagon. No problem.
Funny thing - I have twin brothers that are 15 months younger than me. The day before their license test one of them takes a curve too wide and hits a 57 Chevy head on. Enough damage to have to be repaired and such but both cars drove away and no one was hurt. There was, however, a nice new fresh dent on the hood of the Tempest.
The next day they go for the test and the guys at the DMV see the two of them coming and the dent and are laughing themselves silly and ask immediately "which one?" while pointing at the dent. The younger (by five minutes) twin raises his hand. They also both passed just fine.
My folks got an estimate on the damage, made my brother pay them for it but never did get it fixed.
About 60% of my auto purchases were GM, with one still in the fleet, pre-Obama takeover, and the other is a Ford Mustang GT. GM has made some great autos in the past, and their offerings really do not excite me..The latest Camaro almost did the trick, but is a little on the porky side, and lost out to the Mustang..
My first car at 14 was a 35 Ford Coupe, loud and fun, driving the backroads of north-central Indiana..fun days..2 Porsches in Germany back in the late 50s when the entire autobahn was a no-limit speed haven..
Cars and driving back in the old days was a blast, now-a-days it is a pain-in-the-backside..
I wish GM lots of luck for I supplied lots parts to them over the years, and it was a fun-trip..
Are steering wheels optional on the "Cruze"?????
And, being a brand new design, I find it hard to justify, nor would I want to be a guinnae pig with over 41 grand invested. Heck, 22k dollar Snuze's have steering wheels that could fall off for pete's sake, how long has Government Motors been designing cars? I'm sorry but that's embarrassing. What sort of goofs has the Volt got waiting down the line?
At least with the Prius, you're buying a third generation vehicle, with a million or so on the roads that have proven to be well built and quite reliable in typical Toyota fashion. Again, for half the cost...
I have next to no interest in either but if I suddenly discovered 45 grand in my wallet and was forced to buy one, I'd spend the 22k on the yota and spend the other 20 grand on a Miata
I always hesitate to purchase a first generation anything. Also, wasn't it one steering wheel that fell off a Cruze? Toyota's unintended acceleration resulted in 100 or so deaths, correct? Which is a bigger problem?
Also, there was a first generation Prius. Car makers have to start somewhere.
As I've stated before on this forum, I want to buy a Volt or a Leaf and use my solar plant to recharge the car for my 28 mile round trip commute. It might not make the most sense moneywise, but I'm trying to cut down on gasoline use. I don't want to make these shieks any richer than they already are.
Your car choices are fine choices. I'm looking to upgrade to a new Z06 ans soon as this Volt/Leaf stuff is out of the way.
I got seduced into it, but only bought 40 shares. Ended up selling it a couple weeks ago, took a loss of maybe 8-10%. But, I just checked and it's fallen another 5% since then! If it falls too much, that might be the time to buy some back!
The 2010 Toyota Prius has the highest number of complaints to NHTSA
of any late model car. The total of 1570 complaints ( many about dangerous
brake issues) is over 30 times the number of complaints for the Chevy
Malibu(48).
You can check it at link title
I once got 45 mpg on a 250 mile round trip in a '00 Cavalier rental. The efficiency of the Cavalier was remarkable for a time when gas was 89 cents. Upon returning the car, it took only $5 to top it off at the Youngstown airport. Back then, I made a safe living making parts exclusively for V8 engines. Now, I work on stuff that burns 100 gallons just getting down the runway, so people can save time getting to the GW conference.
Well, all cars look pretty much like jellybeans and it's highly subjective. But nobody buys a budget car like this and expects it to be a pimped-out set of wheels. They want it to be better than the previous generation, decently reliable, and do its job of not using a ton of gas. The Cruze works at doing this and is a compelling alternative if you don't want to buy something made in Japan.
They did love the Eco version with manual, though. Go figure. I think the 40+mpg they got on the highway made them see it in a new light?
I also love how on Car and Driver's main web page, they have a banner saying how the Cruze got the Canadian Car of the Year Award. :P
Not to be too picky, but which competitor is made in Japan? I know the Fusion is made in Mexico.
Yes, the EPA has notified GM that they are in error and this should be "fixed" for the 2012 models.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass/Midsize_Cars2011.shtml
It's tied with the Elantra for the highest MPG non-hybrid in that list. That's really worth adding a few points to the review, IMO. GM's got an engine there that is plainly better than what Toyota or Honda have.
4 Cylinder Camry, stick, 22/26/33 3263 Lbs.
4 Cylinder Cruze, stick. 28/33/42 3102 Lbs.
Much, much better engine and gearbox if it can do that while weighing about 150lbs less. That's almost diesel car figures. For that, with manual helping me zip around better in traffic, I can deal with less power and raw straight-line speed. Typical commuting behavior is getting closer to 38-40 combined from reports as well. I think it's worth the extra $2K over the base model given that it's 5-6mpg better.
It's a good car. You know, it's not an IS250 or a C class, but then again, for $18K in this crazy inflation type economy, what do you expect? Note how bread prices have gone up WAY faster the last three years than car prices - $18K is almost nothing lately.
Getting 75-150 MPG would be great if not just to thumb my nose at the oil speculators and their co-conspirators. One thing for sure, the Volt is a lot prettier than a Prius.
Yup, but they recalled 2500 of them so there were 2499 more chances of the same thing happening... This one happened at 65mph with three people in the car including one child...
Wow, you have a solar plant? That's pretty cool. :shades: I agree that the overall goal to ween ourselves off foriegn oil should be a priority and both the Leaf and the Volt are fine choices and fine starts. I just don't think the 41 thousand dollar entry fee to get 30 or so gas free miles is worth it, especially the penalty of dragging around 500 lbs of battery weight after the charge is depleted, achieving less mpg's than a conventional Toyota Corolla.
The Leaf is a better choice IMO, even if the real world data is showing 75 or so miles on a charge instead of the promised 100 mile range. I like it for the fact that it solves another dilema besides the fuel dependancy...
absolute zero emmisions. :shades:
Good luck with your purchase! And kudos on the Solar!
2000 Honda Insight
The original Prius in 1997 had and MSRP of $19,995.
The Nissan Leaf is $25,280 after the $7500.00 tax credit.
Definitely. I'm surprised they don't go with a conventional engine version for a fraction of the cost. Could've helped pay for the tooling to build the 10k Volts...
Getting 75-150 MPG would be great if not just to thumb my nose at the oil speculators and their co-conspirators. One thing for sure, the Volt is a lot prettier than a Prius.
That pretty much sums up how I feel. First off, the Volt isn't available around here yet so it's a moot point. The Volt is probably a good choice for certain people, but I'm not convinced I'm that person yet. I just don't drive enough to spend that much money on that type of car.
40+mpg is certainly high-tech and refined from a technical aspect. If this was a Honda, they'd be probably praising how "You can hear the V-Tech engage at higher RPMs" or some nonsense like that. They expect a Chevrolet to be as quiet as a Lexus? (It apparently would have to be to please them enough) Give me a break.
True, the automatic, while "only" being built by the best company that builds automatics (btw), is reliable, it is sluggish like all GM automatics. Then again, you really have to be daft to get the automatic in a high MPG car like this if they offer a manual. You lose 6 MPG and "gain" a realistic 20% slower acceleration and response by getting the automatic.
Yes, it does and it is.
The next step is to make it a compelling choice to someone for whom country of origin is not an issue. If it's not there yet it certainly is close.
So, yes, a compelling alternative to the imports is an important thing. I'd settle for 90% as good to help our country. Though, to be honest, most of the budget imports are flimsy feeling, plasticky, and have seats as hard as a rock. It's really very minor differences between any of these vehicles as none of them are really "real" cars. They're what you buy to save gas and get from point A to B.
IMO, you should chose the domestic in such a case. Or buy something better used.
I think I'd agree that if it's 90% it would have me looking seriously.
I don't believe the differences are minor. My wallet and bank account prove my point that the diffferences are MAJOR.
-Domestic Dodge 65K miles cost 4 tow truck trips plus about $5K to keep running over about 5-6 years.
-'92 Honda Civic had for 2 years and about 35K miles and put about 1,000 dollars into it and sold it for $500 less than paid for it originally. Most of that 1,000 went to replace wear items, like brakes/rotors, but not all.
- 2003 Honda Accord Coupe V6 Had for 50 months (4 years and 2 months), 65,000 miles, sold for 53% of my out the door costs (tax,title, licensing included), and spent exactly $0.00 on repairs outside of normal maintenance (granted, Honda did pay to replace the tranny outside of warranty at 42K miles, but they did it acting embarrassed instead of acting like I was inconveniencing them, did it in two days, and provided a free rental while at it).
-2005 Honda Civic (flawless built in Japan, no warranty visits, no costs) totalled by careless Jetta driver at approximately 27,000 miles.
-2007 Honda Civic (bought as replacement) built in Japan again, yay!. One warranty visit to repair an ill fitting plastic trim piece by the little front A pillar window shaped like a triangle, and a bad window regulator. At about 40,000 miles now with an astounding repair total bill of $0.00 (nothing failing after warranty of course).
-2006 Audi A3: Under warranty they replaced the AC compressor (at 53,000 miles, thanks Audi for stepping up like Honda and UNLIKE Dodge/Chrysler). Also under warranty fixed one ill fitting interior trim bit (I blame Lojack for that probably, but they will never say where they hid it). They replaced the center console lid (plastic hinge broke), and the rear seat center armrest cup holder (Germans make the cup holders cheap on purpose to spite Americans). After warranty I've replaced the recirculation valve in the turbo system, a fuel intake runner module, and a window regulator, totaling to about $1,100.00 in 75,000 miles of amazingly fun hard driving (and 6 track days). You could add about another $150 for pre-emptively changing the diverter valve recently (preventive maintenance? LOL) (that's the one that usually fails first I hear), but that was cheap, $100 dollar part and 1/2 hour labor).
They have no bottom, no standards, no quality control. I won't believe it until there is a NON-GOVT backed warranty like Hyundai's or better (and the current GM warranty in my view is half of Hyundai's).
Do you have any proof with links of having no standards? No quality control?
Otherwise this is just simply an outrageous rant from a hater. (Oh, by the way, you might want to visit the CRV topics about air conditioners failing and honda NOT replacing them free and the transmission discussions at Odyssey topics and the CRV discussion for honda. We all already know about toyota's forage into the world of image-shaping since 2002 when they started misleading the NHSTA with reports that were not honest about problems with toyta/lexuses.
Since this topic is about GM News, New Models, and Market Share, the discussions of problems GM may have had in the past and of the glory of people's favorite foreign brand are not on topic. There needs to be a topic "I Hate GM" for those posters.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I know lots of people with CRV's and Oddy's that have had no such trouble, but I've experienced all of the above in one GM vehicle
So because of your sample of friends that doesn't mean the others posting in those discussions are _not_ having problems, does it?
You really hit the jackpot, having so many problems all in one vehicle. Sympathy.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just thinking as hosts should be thinking: that when someone comes to a discussion named GM News, New Models, and Market Share they expect to find a discussion about GM News, New Models, and Market Share rather than some of the other, but pertinent at times, topics that are presented.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Diesel has real life experience and personally knows people who have no problems according to him.
To me, that's a lot more credible than someone(s) who I have no clue who they are posting on a message board... but then again that's just me
Unfortunately it hasn't been just one vehicle. I've had several domestic vehicles that have basically provided me with one repair after another to pay for. But yeah, my Suburban takes top prize for the being the worst. It appears my Expedition doesn't want to be left out either:(
Are you suggesting GM rationalize its brand strategy? :P
"Show me all cars that get 40mpg or better highway"
The Cruze is in the top 5. It's better than the Prius (cost over its lifetime as well as driving dynamics), and completely trashes the Yaris and similar "high MPG" cars (most of which are sub-compacts). And at the end of the year, you know it'll have huge rebates and incentives. Honda maybe $300 off. Toyota, I can't remember WHEN they ever had incentives.
Also, some anecdotal experience with a GM car from 1995 isn't relevant, either. We all know they sucked back then. But it's not the same company any more. Not - neither is Ford, which also makes several good cars. My only gripe is almost everything that's decent/new seems to be made in Mexico. Ford could do a lot of good will and positive PR by keeping jobs in the U.S. Or better yet, moving some back here.
EDIT - also, to add insult to injury, GE is getting those cars at probably fleet pricing. All while paying no tax this year. If I was in charge, I'd tell them that they're getting not one dime of government anything (as well as contracts) at all until they stop playing games and pay their fair share.
I'm sure Ford would have preferred keeping jobs here. Except that it's tough to make a profit when your workforce is unionized, militant, entitled, expects unreasonable salaries and benefits, and won't be flexible due to ridiculous rules.
If I were running a US automaker I would have plan A and plan B - plan A is for the union being reasonable, and plan B is for outsourcing more manufacturing.