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Comments

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    I don't know how bad of an experience your Toytota rental really was. Afterall, it got you everywhere you needed to go. Who cares if a few lights go on in the dash.

    I'd rather have check engine lights and traction control lights go on and still have a driveable workable car, then get something that leaves you stranded and needs a tow truck like MOPAR products.


    Please answer the following question honestly:

    If the story was the same, but the names "Malibu" and "Camry" had been reversed, would you have made the same statement?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited April 2011
    Please answer the following question honestly:

    If the story was the same, but the names "Malibu" and "Camry" had been reversed, would you have made the same statement?


    Nope, not to me, if it smells like crap and looks like crap, it's gotta be crap. Though I will admit, if a Chevy displayed those issues, I wouldn't be surprised. So, I freely admit my bias.

    My sister used to work for enterprise. For what ever reason, she said a lot of cars had check engine lights on and they'd often just stick an enterprise sticker over it until they had a chance to get it fixed.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I know one of Lemko's '79's got rear-ended by a box truck, but I can't remember which. I forget what happened to the other.

    Those '77-79 Electras and 98's were nice cars. Standard 350, optional 403, big, roomy, comfy, durable, luxurious, and even reliable!

    They lost a bit of their prestige in 1980 when they went to a standard 307 and optional 350. Just not as much power. I dated a girl who drove a '78 or '79 98 with the 403, and that sucker was downright respectable in the acceleration department....if there were more cars like it, the 70's wouldn't be remembered as such a bad decade!

    In 1981, they went to a standard Buick 252 V-6, with all of 125 hp, and in these heavy cars it was a dog. Unreliable, too. And often mated to the lightweight THM200 transmission. And by this time, the Diesel 350 was common, which was a big black eye for GM. The Olds 307 was a sturdy engine, although a bit overmatched in these heavy cars. And it came with the new 4-speed automatic THM200R-4, which was unreliable the first couple years.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Nope, not to me, if it smells like crap and looks like crap, it's gotta be crap. Though I will admit, if a Chevy displayed those issues, I wouldn't be surprised. So, I freely admit my bias

    I gotta admit, I have a little bias, too. If it was a Toyota acting up, I'd probably mutter something like "Toyota quality...yeah right" and roll my eyes, but if it was a Chevy, it wouldbe more like "Oh crap, the rumors are true!" and roll my eyes.

    Either way I'd be miffed that it happened, but some of the underlying thoughts and emotions would be a bit different.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The Olds 307 was a sturdy engine, although a bit overmatched in these heavy cars. And it came with the new 4-speed automatic THM200R-4, which was unreliable the first couple years.

    My grandpa had an '83 Delta 88 with the 307/4speed. It was reliable and a nice car. He drove a lot back then so by '87 it had a 120k or so. I know it had a few expensive repairs once it past 100k miles. The A/C compressor went out and something with the transmission needed fixed. I don't remember what, but I know it was like $800 back in like '86, so it may have had to be rebuilt, can't remember. He traded it in on a '87 Caprice as he usually got a new as soon as his current car started giving him trouble.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    My grandparents had an '85 LeSabre with the 307/4-speed automatic, and it was probably the most reliable car they ever owned. It got handed down to me in 1999, with around 144,000 miles, when Grandmom lost her license. Up to that point, it really didn't need much more than routine maintenance stuff, although the switch or whatever that controls the lockup torque converter on the transmission needed to be replaced. Oh, and the cassette stopped working after about a year, but they never bothered to get it fixed.

    I finally got rid of it in 2002, with 157,000 miles on it. I had put off a lot of maintenance and repairs, and then the brakes finally went out on it, and that was the last straw. If I hadn't bought my '79 New Yorker, I probably would have kept up on that LeSabre a bit better.

    And sad to say, but comparing that '85 to my 2000 Park Ave, I'd have to say that the '85 was the better car! While I haven't had anything major fail on the Park Ave yet, it's had a bunch of minor crap fail (rear window defroster, some of the adjustments in the passenger side power seat, front sway bar links, passenger front window getting flaky, fuel gauge acting up when it gets low, etc) that never went bad on the LeSabre in the whole 157,000 miles it was in my family. And my 2000 just recently hit 70,000! I hope these issues aren't a sign of things to come!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I hope these issues aren't a sign of things to come!

    I hope not for your sake. The '00 P/A my dad (really my mom) inherited from my grandpa didn't wear well at all. Mechanical, electrical, you name it, it had issues.

    The fuel gauge could be a real PITA. I know it completely failed on my dad and it was not a cheap fix. IIRC it was problem with the gauge cluster and not the sending unit. My dad never fixed it. He just filled up and kept track of the miles and my sister did the same once my dad gave it to her. I can't remember if the trip computer could still give fuel data or not either.

    The powertrain should be reliable with proper maintenance, but unfortunately all of the little things that can really make you hate a car seem to be fair game. Maybe you should let lemko drive it for a week, all those small issues you're having surely will go away;)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited April 2011
    I can't remember if the trip computer could still give fuel data or not either.


    On mine, when the fuel gauge starts bouncing around, the trip computer's estimate of miles to empty bounces around, as well. If it thinks it has a full tank, it'll say something like 450-500 miles to empty, but then when the gauge swings back to almost empty, the distance to empty drops accordingly. Fortunately, the gallons used selection still works, so as long as I reset it every time I fill up, I can use that as an estimate. It has a 17 gallon tank (small for a car this size IMO), and the gallons used has never been off by more than one. Although if it says I've used 16 gallons, I guess I'd be screwed!

    I'm only averaging about 800-900 miles per month, so I guess I'm really not putting the car through too much torture. While I'd really like the thing to last indefinitely, so I can save some money, realistically, if it can go another two years before anything catastrophic fails on it, I'll be happy. My 2000 Intrepid had cost me around $270 per month, from the cradle to the grave, so once the Park Ave amortizes to around that, I'll be happy. I think right now, it's down to around $540 per month and dropping. I know that sounds like a horrible number, but I'm simply taking how much the car has cost me (purchase price + repairs/maintenance) and dividing by the amount of months I've had it. And since I paid cash for it, it's going to be a lot worse in the early months.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    On mine, when the fuel gauge starts bouncing around, the trip computer's estimate of miles to empty bounces around, as well.

    That sounds like a sending unit issue. I don't know if it is separately serviceable from the fuel pump. Unfortunately, I'm sure the fuel tank would have to be dropped to get to the sending unit and/or the fuel pump. Plus, if you're having the tank dropped it would be a good idea to go ahead and replace the fuel pump too. Not a cheap fix. I think I'd continue to keep track of mileage and gallons used...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Who cares if a few lights go on in the dash.

    Sometimes a bad sensor will trigger the CEL. And that bad sensor, like an O2 sensor, can cause engine hesitation or lack of power and lousy gas mileage (been there).

    If that happened to me in a rental, I'd be on the phone to Enterprise or Dollar requesting another car.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    >fuel gauge acting up when it gets low

    That most likely is a problem with the contacts on the potentiometer on the fuel level sender inside the tank.

    The trunk has an access plate above the sender inside the tank. The fix can be a $45 replacement contact if you do it yourself or fairly inexpensive if an honest mechanic will do it at hourly rates for you.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    edited April 2011
    AP: General Motors is almost certain to claim the title of world's biggest automaker this year.

    GM's sales are up, mainly in China and the U.S, the world's top two markets. Its cars are better than in the past, especially small ones.

    But even though GM came within 30,000 sales of Toyota last year and began strong in 2011, any sales victory this year has more to do with Toyota's problems.

    ...Since then (2009), GM has come up with hits including the Chevrolet Equinox small SUV, the Buick LaCrosse luxury car, and the Chevrolet Cruze compact. Its quality is better. Sales so far this year are up 25 percent in the U.S. and 10 percent in China. The efficient Cruze compact and Chevrolet Volt car both hit the market as U.S. gasoline prices started rising.

    With a bunch of nice alternatives and doubts about quality, customers who once dutifully returned to Toyota started considering other brands. Many Toyota models look old and need upgrades. Despite rebates and low-interest financing, Toyota was the only major automaker with lower U.S. sales last year. Sales are up 12.5 percent so far in 2011, but only at half the growth of GM.

    THE CHINA FACTOR: Toyota has nowhere near GM's presence in China, now the world's largest auto market. Through March, Toyota sold 208,000 vehicles there, but GM and its joint ventures sold more than three times that number. Growth in China by itself probably would have moved GM ahead of Toyota in worldwide sales. Toyota's lead was only about one day's worth of sales for GM.

    AP: GM No. 1
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Spend some time at GMI or C&G. You'd think the automotive world actually revolved around Government Motors...

    Really? Who is this company called "Government Motors?" Never heard of them.

    Yet folks over there own 5 or 6 of them and are trading every couple of years on other GM vehicle (poor resale values limit options their options when nobody else wants your car but GM) so they don't keep them long enough to realistically judge longevity...

    1968 Buick Special Deluxe - 24 years.
    1988 Buick Park Avenue - 21 years.
    1989 Cadillac Brougham - 22 years and counting...

    ... and have never even considered, nor even experienced anything outside of the Detroit 3.

    Considered Lexus LS430
    Considered Mercedes 560 SEL
    Considered Mercedes 420 SEL
    Considered new Mercedes E-Class
    Considered BMW M5
    Considered Toyota Avalon
    Experienced VW - never again!

    "Camry sux, it's boring" But the Rentabu is amazing...

    What's a "Rentibu?" Never heard of it.

    "The (9th generation, highly regarded) Civic is overrated, the Elantra is ugly, the Corolla is boring, but the brand new Snuze (zero reliability or reputation data) kicks it's tail, greatest car ever!

    Nothing in this class much interests me regardless of manufacturer or country of origin. What's a "Snuze?" Never heard of it.

    "CR sux beczuse they don't like Government Motors"

    Again, who is this mysterious "Government Motors?" Never heard of them.

    All automotive magazines are worthless because they don't like GM

    No, not all. I really do like "Collectible Automobile."
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Shoot Cracked and Mad magazine could probably give better financial advice than the so-called gurus.

    image

    What? Me worry about the market?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    79 Buick Park Avenue.... who's fault was the accident? - Me.
    '79 Olds 98 - again, who's fault was the accident? - Driver of box truck not paying attention and also took out a Nissan Pathfinder.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Both my '79 Park Avenue and Olds Ninety-Eight had the 403 V-8. Great engine!

    I was driving a bit too fast on a back road on a very rainy night with the Park Avenue and lost it going around a curve and hit a telephone pole dead center, bounced off it and ended up in a farmer's field facing the opposite direction from which I was traveling.

    The Olds was taken out, along with a silver Nissan Pathfinder, by a careless box truck driver on a West Philly street. I was stopped at a light and the box truck hit the Pathfinder which was behind me and pushed it into the back of my car.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    I'd rather buy a Rentabu, a Snuze, and from Government Motors versus GM, Malibu, or Cruze.

    GM shoud change their name to all of the above.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    "Rentabu". How clever.

    I've had exactly one Malibu (current iteration) rental. I got a Camry earlier, many Ford Focuses (Foci?), and many Korean cars.

    Rentacam! Hey, I made a funny!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited April 2011
    No such Rentals for this Malibu:

    image

    image

    After 1972 GM DESTROYED the nameplate Chevelle/Malibu. Another idiotic decision among many. :cry:

    That's why it evolved into the Rent-A-BU (HOO)!

    Regards,
    OW
  • maple2maple2 Member Posts: 177
    I don't know how bad of an experience your Toytota rental really was. Afterall, it got you everywhere you needed to go. Who cares if a few lights go on in the dash.
    I'd rather have check engine lights and traction control lights go on

    totally explains how you could stand to drive an audi
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited April 2011
    You respond to the data. I already felt this coming despite GM "taking over the Top" from Toyota. :P

    Retail market share is one of those metrics that tends to cut through the vagueness of pure sales-volume numbers, reflecting an automaker’s performance compared to the competition, without the distraction of fleet sales. It’s not a perfect measure of a business’s overall strength, as fleet sales can help with economies of scale and capacity utilization, but it’s one of the most accurate ways to measure the appeal of a firm’s products with real consumers. And, based on this chart of GM’s monthly retail market share (as calculated by TrueCar VP for Industry Analysis and all-round data ninja Jesse Toprak), GM’s much-vaunted Lutz-era products aren’t moving the needle with those real consumers. Emerging from bankruptcy didn’t seem to provide much of boost either. And unless drastic happens soon, GM’s battle for consumer acceptance will continue its slow but steady decline. Not good!

    image

    image

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Note, though, that that percentage also includes fleet sales. GM has always been at about 10-15% in passenger car sales and the rest is fleet and government and similar. So you should expect a lot of drop as they phase out most of those contracts.(or those contracts mostly go over to Ford and Kia)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    After 1972 GM DESTROYED the nameplate Chevelle/Malibu. Another idiotic decision among many.

    I think for the era, the '73-77 and then the '78-83 Malibu were decent cars. The problem is that "performance" was becoming a dirty word in the 70's, with fuel standards, emission standards, and rising insurance rates. Plus, the public was demanding more and more that their cars, even the cheaper ones, look expensive and pretentious. And, those 5 mph bumpers were coming into play.

    So, I think right there, anything that came out in '73 would have had three strikes against it... 1) peformance cut, 2) the "cheap luxury look", and 3) those mammoth, jutting bumpers.

    Personally, I wish Chevy had let the Malibu nameplate rest in peace, but they had to dig it back up in 1997. Now, to be fair, the 1997 Malibu wasn't a bad car, in fact, that first year it was actually pretty competitive. But it was a replacement for the compact Corsica, which was pretty much rental car fodder by that point, so IMO that's where the Malibu got its rental car image. Now to be fair, the '97 was fairly competitive when it first came out, but it wasn't long before the competition blew past it.

    I remember looking at 2000 Malibus when I bought my Intrepid, and just couldn't see myself doing it, even though they were around $3,000 less than the Trep. The Malibu really needed a thorough redesign by 2002, but we didn't get one until 2004. And while the '04 was an improvement in some ways, it just wasn't enough, and the competition had swamped it by then.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Bring back the Malibu name for the redone Corsica was definitely a mistake and it did put it in the rental fodder class. Perhaps worse was continuing it as the Chevy Classic only as a rental while better Malibus were available at retail.

    Losing their footing in that class of cars was a very serious misstep for GM. They are clearly addressing that these days.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    image

    And for some reason the Revell model of this year that I put together outlasts all my other models when they get damaged during moves and such. Love to have a full-size '65 Malibu of me own.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, any car that would've followed the awesome 1968-72 GM A-Bodies would've been like a plate spinner coming on after the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show.

    This is my favorite Malibu:

    image
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    I like the four headlights of the '70, but I like the round taillights of the '71 and '72.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Heck, any car that would've followed the awesome 1968-72 GM A-Bodies would've been like a plate spinner coming on after the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show.

    Where's Topo Gigio when we need him? :blush:
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    My favorite of that era is the '68-69 Chevelle. I like the forward thrust of the front-end better than the flat-faced look, although the '70 is a looker. But now, just picture that '70 with massive bumpers jutting out, both front and rear. And, for good measure, a B-pillar and opera windows.

    Oh yeah, one other detail I had forgotten...the government was proposing rollover standards for cars, which hardtops and convertibles would not have been able to pass, so as a result, those models were dropped for '73. And then, the rollover standards never materialized!
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Do you think Chevrolet is going to price the Chevrolet Sonic to compete against the new Nissan Versa. I believe the Versa is going to start at $11K, with AC and it's other standard features.

    I've been disappointed with the Cruze costing so much, and sure hope Chevrolet starts producing some low cost vehicles. I think with the economy going the way it is and high gas prices that Chevrolet should be putting out more vehicles in the $10K - $15K range.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    You dont like the spark?
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    totally explains how you could stand to drive an audi

    Haha, no, totally taking my statements out of context. First off, the only rental/loaner I had that had a "light" on in the dash while renting it was a VW, not an Audi (Audi has more quality control and better reliability than VW, and the data shows this since 2000.

    Second, I wouldn't put up with a bunch of lights on for long, only saying that I'd rather have that problem (as a VW GTI loaner did) then being stranded 4 times like I was from a Chrysler product.

    I hate tow trucks, tow truck drivers, and mechanics due to that Dodge.

    My check engine light has only gone on two times in my A3, and no other lights have ever come on. 75,000 miles.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    Aura
    Sky
    Avalanche
    Malibu
    Acadia
    G8
    Vette
    Camaro
    Equinox
    Cruze
    Volt
    Traverse
    Lacrosse
    Regal
    Enclave
    CTS
    Received bailouts:
    wall st brokerages
    banks
    the Fed
    Fannie
    Freddie
    union pensions
    civil servant pensions
    senior prescription users
    illegal immigrants
    hospitals
    medicare recipients
    everyone in the 25% tax bracket and up
    payroll tax payers
    earned income tax claimants
    cash for clunkers
    first time home buyers
    electric vehicle purchasers
    dividend earners
    pell grant recipients
    people who couldn't pay their mortgages
    teachers
    police
    firemen
    green energy
    earthquake and flood victims
    hurricane and tornado victims
    the company who makes the above list of vehicles
    which bailout was the smallest?
    GM or CFC?
    The GM bailout is barely more than a single day's worth of new US Fed debt

    What part of the population can claim to not be a part of any of the bailouts?
    According to some, they should be the only people that anyone does business with
    Who will still be left if everybody followed that rule?
    Maybe a 19 yr old fighting for the Marines in Afghanistan?
    Anyone else not live in a glass house?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    You have a pretty loose definition of bailout.

    I think keeping the monetary system from collapsing is more important than a failing car company (and I do hate the fact that we had to do that). So it's apples and oranges.

    The price of a stock is a measure of the market's belief in the successful prospects for the company. How is that new GM stock doing these days? How is their market share trending?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    edited April 2011
    >keeping the monetary system from collapsing is more important

    Not to participate in this discussion going (more) off course, but I personally doubt the world was going to fail if the Wall Streeters caught by their own charade of "funny paper" was left to lose. We ended up aiding more foreign banks than aiding our own. Some Wall Street firms kept right up with the high pay and bonuses-- hardly a symptom of a hurting community. We even got one of their people as the Governor of Ohio. He didn't seem to be hurting.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • maple2maple2 Member Posts: 177
    My check engine light has only gone on two times in my A3, and no other lights have ever come on. 75,000 miles.

    my check engine light has never come on, nor have i ever been stranded in my 03 avalanche in over 250 000 km. although i know my transmission is on its way out, but its had a hard life towing a 29 ft jayco travel trailer and a 26 ft chaparral deck boat around (no not at the same time :shades: )
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    edited April 2011
    >My check engine light has only gone on two times in my A3

    My check engine lights have never come on in my 3 cars. :P

    They're all GM products: the Mark of Excellence. My refrigerator and stove never gave any problems, either.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    If I categorized bailouts by what they cost the federal Budget, GM's and C4C would be the two smallest. GM's is now estimated to be a $9.1B loan, which when paid back, will become the smallest on the list at $0. I probably left 20 more bailouts off the list just from the last 5 years. Doesn't Cal. need $26 Billion it will never pay back?
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    See? That's the problem with GM cars. The check engine light doesn't work. :P
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited April 2011
    GM's is now estimated to be a $9.1B loan, which when paid back, will become the smallest on the list at $0.

    I don't know how you figured that. Looks like the Fed is planning to sell a large portion of its remaining holdings of GM equity. At current stock price that will be an $11 billion dollar loss. Stock needs to be a $53 a share to break even.

    The equity the fed has in GM is not a loan, it's partial ownership. Approximately 30% currently. The only way for the Fed to get it's money back is for the stock price to go up substantially.

    The government spent around $50 billion. GM simply doesn't have the free cash flow to pay that back anytime soon if it were a loan. The payback hinges on the stock price.

    http://blogs.forbes.com/steveschaefer/2011/04/19/treasury-to-sell-gm-stake-end-m- - - - yth-of-a-profitable-auto-bailout/

    I'm also curious to see GM's tax liability. Last I read, GM will be allowed to carryover tax credits from the old GM of around $45 billion, so even though GM is allegedly profitable (I haven't actually seen a 10Q from GM that is GAAP, they've all been non-GAAP which means they could be exaggerating profit), GM will not have to pay income tax for years.

    So they lose billions, basically get bailed out by the tax payer, then they still get to write of the losses. Wow, what a deal good for GM but the tax payer gets the shaft.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    >The check engine light doesn't work.

    That's part of that German mark of excellence. Friends bought a Jetta around 2002. Check engine lite stayed on for months more or less. I wish GM had had that quality!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    GM products: the Mark of Excellence

    I doubt they would have failed if a large portion of the public actually believed that. :blush:
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    If I categorized bailouts by what they cost the federal Budget, GM's and C4C would be the two smallest. GM's is now estimated to be a $9.1B loan

    You forgot about the large share of GM that the US Govt bought, and which is well below the purchase value at the current time. Much larger than the number you cited.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I actually had an 80 Rabbit that had an overheat idiot light that didn't function at the same time the radiator fan didn't function. (Imagine - electrical glitches on a Volkswagen!) Result - engine soup. Dealer tried to say it was negligence. I had every piece of maintenance paper. Since my brother is my lawyer I let him show them the paperwork. Amazing how quickly their tune changed.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    My dads old Grand prix had more than just one light come on and stay on on the dashboard... ABS, oil, CEL, all at random times.

    Those weren't German :confuse:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    They're all GM products: the Mark of Excellence.

    The "GM Mark Of Excellence" badge fell off my '67 Catalina when I closed the door one day. :blush:
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    A Toyota with the check engine light on for 2 years and never had a problem. Sometimes, the light doesn't mean anything of importance.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Must have lax emissions standards there. I heard a CEL means instant failure of emissions testing.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Must have lax emissions standards there. I heard a CEL means instant failure of emissions testing.

    We don't have emission tests here in central IL. I've lived in several areas that did, what a PITA. I don't miss dealing with that BS.

    Yeah, I believe a check engine light that does not come on during the test cycle (when you turn the key on) and/or a CEL that stays on during an emissions test would mean failure. I believe their are ways to get around it though. Pay a fine or if the repairs cost more than a certain amount, the issue is waved. Don't quote me on that, but I thought I read something to that effect in the past. I'm sure it's a state by state issue.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    No company should warrant a bailout, LEAST OF ALL GM!

    Regards,
    OW
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