One does wonder if they are growing too fast, and might end up with the old GM/new Toyota "disease".
Valid concern on Hyundai/Kia. But the company that I think may be next is VW. They are actively gunning for #1 and their new models seem kind of chintzy and generic.
Chevrolet Malibu is the No. 1 selling car in the US in May, No. 3 selling vehicle
Gotta be careful drawing any conclusions here. The Malibu is a nice car, but the data right now statistically speaking is full of outliers. Toyota, Honda and Nissan got hit with serious vendor shutdowns. Rather than running out and taking just any old part replacements, they are carefully bringing the vendor situation back up to speed. I think you've got to give it 6-10 months before drawing any valid conclusions from sales data right now. But this certainly has given Detroit a potential opportunity to capitalize on.
I would not have guessed this. I thought the Fusion outsold it.
YTD the Fusion is still ahead by 10k units or so. In May, the Malibu outsold the Fusion by about 1k units.
The Altima is still selling very well. It was only 75 units behind the Malibu. Guess the Altima plant wasn't slowed down by the quake. YTD the Altima is ahead of both the Fusion and the Malibu.
Focus was only 400 units less than the Cruze. Both are selling very well IMO.
The Explorer moved 13k units. That's a huge month IMO. Hard to believe the Escape is still selling over 20k/mo. Ford must be giving those away, that's 5k more than the Equinox.
The new Jetta is selling well too. 16.6k sold in May. Up 58% over last year.
Chevrolet Malibu is the No. 1 selling car in the US in May, No. 3 selling vehicle.
Didn't we just hear from 1 of the other posters - how Malibus have so many incentives on them? So that = reduced profits.
And did we not just have the ultimate demonstration by the Old GM that # of SALES doesn't matter if you're losing $ on each sale. GM was #1 for decades while losing market share and on-the-road to bankruptcy! Profits on operations matter. Let GM buyback the shares that the government owns. Let GM payback all the suppliers and investors when the Old-GM went under.
Didn't we just hear from 1 of the other posters - how Malibus have so many incentives on them?
Toyota cut off incentives for the month of May (they're back now as of today, June 2). Supply was reduced so they upped prices so as not to run out of cars to sell. They overcompensated, and production is ramping back up, so incentives are back.
Meanwhile, you can get a Malibu at around $4000 below invoice. GM is giving them away.
Buy 2 movie tickets and a large popcorn and drink, get a Malibu free!
Meanwhile, you can get a Malibu at around $4000 below invoice.
Where are you seeing this? June's incentives are still $2,000 rebate and $1,000 "dealer cash". I bought at invoice, and the dealer five miles away wanted $200 over invoice.
Sheesh, what sore losers some folks are !
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
No way anyone can spin that, Camaro is kicking asphalt.
Oh, of course they can...Chevy's dumping them into fleets, Chevy's offering big discounts on them, Chevy's sold their soul to the devil, what have you! :P
I wonder why Mustang sales took a sudden dip like that? Any conspiracy theories?
Dunno...maybe Ford was offering big discounts on the 2010's to clear 'em out to make way for the 2011? Or, the 2010 simply saturated the market? Is the 2011, with the improved engines, much more expensive?
Where are you seeing this? June's incentives are still $2,000 rebate and $1,000 "dealer cash". I bought at invoice, and the dealer five miles away wanted $200 over invoice.
I was about to say, if they're going for $4,000 under invoice, that's almost enough to tempt me into one! Actually, going to that www.fitzmall.com site I tend to use as a benchmark, it looks like they ARE selling Malibus for around $3500-3600 under invoice. Of course, that's with all the rebates and such factored in.
I was happy to get $3,900 off of MSRP. But, neither the dealer that has been terrific to me for service, which is where I bought, nor the nearest dealer, are "Auto Malls" by any stretch of the words.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Well, $3900 off MSRP sounds pretty good to me. These days, it seems like there's not a huge spread between invoice and MSRP like there was back in the day. I just went back to that Fitzmall site and checked again, and it looks like their internet prices are around $4600-4800 off of MSRP.
Plus, there might be regional differences. I'm sure Chevy and domestics in general are a lot more popular out your way, so maybe they're just less willing to deal. But around these parts, the imports are a lot more dominant. Plus, I'd imagine those big auto malls make it up in volume. Chances are, a great deal of those new cars also involve a trade-in, which is where all the profit is. And I've noticed that Fitzmall's used car prices can be pretty hit-or-miss when it comes to value.
I wonder why Mustang sales took a sudden dip like that? Any conspiracy theories?
Are the 2011 models the ones where it looks like they 'clipper the corners' of the car a bit? I don't think they look as nice as previous Mustangs, although I know the changes aren't earth-shattering.
I'm not into Camaros either, believe me. I do like them from the back, though.
Only Camaro I could truly enjoy owning would be a clean, bone-stock '67--any engine, any color. I remember going with my Dad to look at them on introduction day. I'm almost certain they came out a couple weeks before the rest of the '67 Chevys.
My favorite Mustangs are the '65 and '66 2+2 (fastback) models.
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Edit: $3895 below invoice, and fitzmall's prices include freight. Their processing fee is only $99, too, so the deals are legit. We've bought several cars from their franchises, different brands.
Are the 2011 models the ones where it looks like they 'clipper the corners' of the car a bit? I don't think they look as nice as previous Mustangs, although I know the changes aren't earth-shattering.
Actually I think the 2010 was when they got that restyle, but then they got new engines for 2011, but I could be wrong.
I'm glad that Chevy and Dodge brought back these Ponycars, but I don't think any of them, or the Mustang, for that matter, are for me. I'd probably go for the Challenger though...not because of any Mopar bias, but simply because it's bigger, and has more useable room than the other two.
Both dealers I priced at, are one-store-only dealers. Plus, I live in Ohio, only about 40 miles from the Lordstown GM complex. Imports aren't necessarily considered so 'hot' out this way.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I almost went to that dealer in Frederick back in late 2009, to look at a 2000 Bonneville they had on their website. It was just the base SE model, but had leather and a sunroof. I think they only wanted around $4800 for it, and it had around 76,000 miles on it. Good thing I called ahead before driving up there though, because it had just sold!
They have a 2002 Bonneville SE listed on their website right now (no pics, unfortunately). Blue, 108,000 miles, but they want $5877 for it! Seems kinda high IMO, considering a year and a half ago, they wanted about $1000 less for one that had around 32,000 fewer miles on it. True, that was a 2000, but that was also a year and a half ago.
I have heard that used car prices have been creeping up as of late, though.
Maybe I'm a fool, but what money is left for the dealer to make if you subtract all the holdback? BTW, both dealers I shopped at handed me the invoice which shows holdback. The holdback on the car I bought is $713.85--MSRP $24,555.00. Sadly, in the invoice amount also is "Dealer IMR Contribution" of $118.98 and "LMA Group Contribution" of $237.95, which I was told is advertising and varies by dealer. I did see how it does vary by dealer when I was shown several different invoices for various model Malibus I was interested in. I was told that amount was non-negotiable.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Toyota actually made a profit in the aftermath of the tsunami? Shocking...
Do your math; there were only 20 days after the quake, 70 days before the quake in Q1. They would be very bad if 20 days of disaster in one region would overcome 70 days of perfect operation worldwide and 20 days of operation outside Japan.
Toyota's domestic production (i.e. Japan) fell 74.5% for April. March was their worst since the 1960s. May data isn't out yet but I doubt it's rosy.
US transplant production was down but not nearly as much. Not even close.
You should follow that thread, it's actually kind of interesting how several domestic cars were also affected. Ford ran out of 4 different paint colors, computers for domsetic hybrid cars are short, and Expedition/Super Duty/Navigator production was halted. GM suspended Chevy Colorado production as well.
When American pickups from Ford and GM use parts from Japan it just proves just how global our economy is.
I see the hardcore Toyota defenders could not defend Toyota in anyways nowadays, because Toyota's poor sales, profit, quality, just nothing to be bragged about. Even Toyota itself has removed the best or No. 1 claims in their recent TV ads.
Now they turn to pick on GM. First accused GM of counting the sales to the dealers in their monthly sales volume; then assuming GM desperately dumps the Chevrolet Malibu despite the fact that GM made the most profit in Q1 2011.
Let's be fair. The quake did affect Toyota in a big way, so they are not as bad as the sales numbers in May suggested.
On the other hand, GM is also far from the dark picture as some of you try to paint as. Just admit that they have had a great turnaround. We don't know how long it would last but they are on a roll now. Ford too. Even Chrysler is having a good time.
You bashed Toyota by comparing the Malibu's sales to the Camry's. All we did was point out the obvious - huge $$$$ incentives.
This is a GM thread, if you don't want to discuss Toyota then *you* should not have brought them up!
then assuming GM desperately dumps the Chevrolet Malibu despite the fact that GM made the most profit in Q1 2011.
Hello? May 2011 monthly sales don't count in Q1 profts or losses.
Nobody is trying to paint a dark picture, but the short-term sales gains you mentioned are short-term and aren't exactly going to bring profits to GM when they are selling at $3895 below target cost. Sorry.
Plenty of good news to talk about - Camaro, Cruze, Equinox, Buick up 24%, GMC up 9%.
I think you should keep Toyota out of this thread.
I see the hardcore Toyota defenders could not defend Toyota in anyways nowadays, because Toyota poor sales, profit, quality, just nothing to be bragged about.
Yup, this recall is clearly nitty gritty but I'm sorry, claiming Toyota quality is "poor" while Government Motors hasn't exactly been (or continues not to be) recall free this year is exaggerating to say the least. But, spin away... :sick:
No, it took billions in tax payer money to make it happen. Just think of how much money Ford would be making if they were able to make their debt vanish as GM did.
A third probe involves GM's 2007 Saturn Aura, potentially affecting 65,105 cars, over a transmission shift cable that could fail, causing the park gear not to fully engage.
The agency said it had received eight complaints alleging that the transmission shift cable had failed, causing the vehicle to roll away, move or accelerate with the shifter in park, or to accelerate in the opposite direction than the driver intended.
Yeah, if they only made it a true hardtop. Same goes for the Camaro. Have we forgotten how to make a hardtop these days?
Yeah, that would've been really cool if they had offered a Challenger or Camaro hardtop. My guess is that they didn't do it in order to cut costs. Plus, I'd imagine that not too many people care whether the back windows roll down or not. I guess you and I are just "old school" enough to remember when those stationary windows were nothing more than a cost-cutting move, and made the cars seem cheaper.
I think Mercedes is the only brand that makes a true hardtop coupe anymore.
Comments
Valid concern on Hyundai/Kia. But the company that I think may be next is VW. They are actively gunning for #1 and their new models seem kind of chintzy and generic.
Gotta be careful drawing any conclusions here. The Malibu is a nice car, but the data right now statistically speaking is full of outliers. Toyota, Honda and Nissan got hit with serious vendor shutdowns. Rather than running out and taking just any old part replacements, they are carefully bringing the vendor situation back up to speed. I think you've got to give it 6-10 months before drawing any valid conclusions from sales data right now. But this certainly has given Detroit a potential opportunity to capitalize on.
YTD the Fusion is still ahead by 10k units or so. In May, the Malibu outsold the Fusion by about 1k units.
The Altima is still selling very well. It was only 75 units behind the Malibu. Guess the Altima plant wasn't slowed down by the quake. YTD the Altima is ahead of both the Fusion and the Malibu.
Focus was only 400 units less than the Cruze. Both are selling very well IMO.
The Explorer moved 13k units. That's a huge month IMO. Hard to believe the Escape is still selling over 20k/mo. Ford must be giving those away, that's 5k more than the Equinox.
The new Jetta is selling well too. 16.6k sold in May. Up 58% over last year.
Toyota Camry has dropped to No. 12 in overall vehicles.
Wow, I'm going to have to post this over on the Toyota and Hyundai forums.
Nah, just being a wiseguy. That wouldn't be my style.
Didn't we just hear from 1 of the other posters - how Malibus have so many incentives on them? So that = reduced profits.
And did we not just have the ultimate demonstration by the Old GM that # of SALES doesn't matter if you're losing $ on each sale. GM was #1 for decades while losing market share and on-the-road to bankruptcy! Profits on operations matter. Let GM buyback the shares that the government owns. Let GM payback all the suppliers and investors when the Old-GM went under.
(Full Big 6 sales report here).
And only here would good value for the consumer end up being a negative ("How are they making money?"). Sheesh.
Toyota cut off incentives for the month of May (they're back now as of today, June 2). Supply was reduced so they upped prices so as not to run out of cars to sell. They overcompensated, and production is ramping back up, so incentives are back.
Meanwhile, you can get a Malibu at around $4000 below invoice. GM is giving them away.
Buy 2 movie tickets and a large popcorn and drink, get a Malibu free!
I wonder why Mustang sales took a sudden dip like that? Any conspiracy theories?
Perhaps the bad press from CR regarding MyFord Touch? I didn't think Mustang shoppers even read Consumer Reports.
Where are you seeing this? June's incentives are still $2,000 rebate and $1,000 "dealer cash". I bought at invoice, and the dealer five miles away wanted $200 over invoice.
Sheesh, what sore losers some folks are
Oh, of course they can...Chevy's dumping them into fleets, Chevy's offering big discounts on them, Chevy's sold their soul to the devil, what have you! :P
I wonder why Mustang sales took a sudden dip like that? Any conspiracy theories?
Dunno...maybe Ford was offering big discounts on the 2010's to clear 'em out to make way for the 2011? Or, the 2010 simply saturated the market? Is the 2011, with the improved engines, much more expensive?
I was about to say, if they're going for $4,000 under invoice, that's almost enough to tempt me into one! Actually, going to that www.fitzmall.com site I tend to use as a benchmark, it looks like they ARE selling Malibus for around $3500-3600 under invoice. Of course, that's with all the rebates and such factored in.
Plus, there might be regional differences. I'm sure Chevy and domestics in general are a lot more popular out your way, so maybe they're just less willing to deal. But around these parts, the imports are a lot more dominant. Plus, I'd imagine those big auto malls make it up in volume. Chances are, a great deal of those new cars also involve a trade-in, which is where all the profit is. And I've noticed that Fitzmall's used car prices can be pretty hit-or-miss when it comes to value.
Are the 2011 models the ones where it looks like they 'clipper the corners' of the car a bit? I don't think they look as nice as previous Mustangs, although I know the changes aren't earth-shattering.
I'm not into Camaros either, believe me. I do like them from the back, though.
Only Camaro I could truly enjoy owning would be a clean, bone-stock '67--any engine, any color. I remember going with my Dad to look at them on introduction day. I'm almost certain they came out a couple weeks before the rest of the '67 Chevys.
My favorite Mustangs are the '65 and '66 2+2 (fastback) models.
Don't shoot the messenger....
http://fitzmall.com/fitzway/carfind/RESULTSB.ASP?V_XREFID=FCGF284275:2011-02-21T- - - 23:15:05.077
$21,977 for a vehicle that lists for $26,845. That's a bargain.
This one's even better:
http://fitzmall.com/fitzway/carfind/RESULTSB.ASP?V_XREFID=FCGF279932:2011-02-15T- - - 09:17:42.233
$22,738 for an MSRP of $27,695.
Edit: $3895 below invoice, and fitzmall's prices include freight. Their processing fee is only $99, too, so the deals are legit. We've bought several cars from their franchises, different brands.
Any better and it would be BOGO.
Actually I think the 2010 was when they got that restyle, but then they got new engines for 2011, but I could be wrong.
I'm glad that Chevy and Dodge brought back these Ponycars, but I don't think any of them, or the Mustang, for that matter, are for me. I'd probably go for the Challenger though...not because of any Mopar bias, but simply because it's bigger, and has more useable room than the other two.
I like the Camaro but can't see out of one. Convertible fixes that. :shades:
My 8 year old loved the bright orange drop top at the fair.
They have a 2002 Bonneville SE listed on their website right now (no pics, unfortunately). Blue, 108,000 miles, but they want $5877 for it! Seems kinda high IMO, considering a year and a half ago, they wanted about $1000 less for one that had around 32,000 fewer miles on it. True, that was a 2000, but that was also a year and a half ago.
I have heard that used car prices have been creeping up as of late, though.
and if available with the 6L90 automatic trans. ]
might interest me.
Some day.
- Ray
TQ junkie.....
We went over this again and again.
Q1 2011 profit:
GM: $3.2B
Ford: $2.6B
Toyota: $0.3B
Who's making more profit?
Fitz' Chevy store is in Frederick, MD, a DC suburb. Lots of competition, plenty of dealers around.
We typically see lower prices at Fitz than in other places, especially compared to Alaska, just to toss out an example.
For the record, I think the tsunami was terrible, tragic news for everybody.
Still, they need to move the metal, and as mentioned above they low-ball your trade and sell that car for profit.
I doubt the new car store makes any money at all. It's used car sales, and the service bays, that make all the profits.
Do your math; there were only 20 days after the quake, 70 days before the quake in Q1. They would be very bad if 20 days of disaster in one region would overcome 70 days of perfect operation worldwide and 20 days of operation outside Japan.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f229863/92#MSG92
Toyota's domestic production (i.e. Japan) fell 74.5% for April. March was their worst since the 1960s. May data isn't out yet but I doubt it's rosy.
US transplant production was down but not nearly as much. Not even close.
You should follow that thread, it's actually kind of interesting how several domestic cars were also affected. Ford ran out of 4 different paint colors, computers for domsetic hybrid cars are short, and Expedition/Super Duty/Navigator production was halted. GM suspended Chevy Colorado production as well.
When American pickups from Ford and GM use parts from Japan it just proves just how global our economy is.
Check out the whole thread, lots of surprises.
Now they turn to pick on GM. First accused GM of counting the sales to the dealers in their monthly sales volume; then assuming GM desperately dumps the Chevrolet Malibu despite the fact that GM made the most profit in Q1 2011.
Let's be fair. The quake did affect Toyota in a big way, so they are not as bad as the sales numbers in May suggested.
On the other hand, GM is also far from the dark picture as some of you try to paint as. Just admit that they have had a great turnaround. We don't know how long it would last but they are on a roll now. Ford too. Even Chrysler is having a good time.
This is a GM thread, if you don't want to discuss Toyota then *you* should not have brought them up!
then assuming GM desperately dumps the Chevrolet Malibu despite the fact that GM made the most profit in Q1 2011.
Hello? May 2011 monthly sales don't count in Q1 profts or losses.
Nobody is trying to paint a dark picture, but the short-term sales gains you mentioned are short-term and aren't exactly going to bring profits to GM when they are selling at $3895 below target cost. Sorry.
Plenty of good news to talk about - Camaro, Cruze, Equinox, Buick up 24%, GMC up 9%.
I think you should keep Toyota out of this thread.
Now they turn to pick on GM.
Right... :sick:
Fresh off the presses
Yup, this recall is clearly nitty gritty but I'm sorry, claiming Toyota quality is "poor" while Government Motors hasn't exactly been (or continues not to be) recall free this year is exaggerating to say the least. But, spin away... :sick:
It's a tragedy we all have sympathy with.
On the other hand, from a business planning point of view, no one should place all eggs in one basket.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efda853/14061#MSG14061
No, it took billions in tax payer money to make it happen. Just think of how much money Ford would be making if they were able to make their debt vanish as GM did.
This is fresh off the presses too:
6/1/2011: Toyota recalls 106,000 Prius hybrid cars for possible steering problems
Prius recalls
It beats the GM recall volume by 2.5 times.
Remember, GM halted production due to parts shortage....
A third probe involves GM's 2007 Saturn Aura, potentially affecting 65,105 cars, over a transmission shift cable that could fail, causing the park gear not to fully engage.
The agency said it had received eight complaints alleging that the transmission shift cable had failed, causing the vehicle to roll away, move or accelerate with the shifter in park, or to accelerate in the opposite direction than the driver intended.
Link:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efda853/14061#MSG14061
GM has paid it all back.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/02/federal-auto-bailout-losses-estimated-at-14-b- illion/
But it was worth it. Saved lots of US jobs.
For now. :shades:
And their "benefits packages"... lol
link title
The government won't be be paid back until they sell the shares they of GM they still own.
Yeah, that would've been really cool if they had offered a Challenger or Camaro hardtop. My guess is that they didn't do it in order to cut costs. Plus, I'd imagine that not too many people care whether the back windows roll down or not. I guess you and I are just "old school" enough to remember when those stationary windows were nothing more than a cost-cutting move, and made the cars seem cheaper.
I think Mercedes is the only brand that makes a true hardtop coupe anymore.