Sure, I'll agree with that. My point to our GM rep. was that for a company that in his opinion has "poor quality", it's kinda hilarious to be throwing stones from a glass house (Ren. Center?)...
Just tally up ALL RECALLS and GM is far ahead in dismal quality of all time!
I don't know about recalls, but I've primarily owned Ford and GM vehicles and just about all of them have displayed very poor quality. My 07 Expedition is falling apart just like most of Ford and GM products I've owned prior.
My wife's new Taurus is far from impressive. Torque steer, pulls to the left all of the time, and fit and finish is atrocious. But it's built with UAW pride. LOL.
right, and the fed gov spends an avg of 21% of GDP and takes in 20.8% of GDP on avg, over the last 80 years. We can't possibly have a debt problem.
We are supplosed to completely forget about Korean mishaps over the last 15 years and judge them solely on todays product. For GM, it is just the opposite?
How does GM's recalls as a pct of sales compare over the last 3 years? Probably very competitive with other high volume sellers.
GM may have the most cars recalled, but that's because they've outsold everyone else in the past 75 years or so.
Recalls don't necessarily mean poor quality either. Recalls only apply to components that may go wrong that pose a safety hazard. They don't measure poor fit-and-finish, mileage or time expectancy, etc. I don't remember Toyota issuing recalls for their oil sludge problems, or Honda for transmissions...
Well I'm an optimist that someday you'll understand that "profits on operations" doesn't include sales of stock or other assets. GM's profit from operation was well under $2B. Go back and reread the links, and pick up an Accounting book.
Of COURSE you do! If it hadn't been for that Grand Prix of yours this topic might have dried up years ago!
LOL, I guess I'll have to admit the GP was perfectly reliable (well except at the end the power steering pump sounded like a scalded dog). It was in other areas where it earned my scorn.
Recalls don't necessarily mean poor quality either. Recalls only apply to components that may go wrong that pose a safety hazard. They don't measure poor fit-and-finish, mileage or time expectancy, etc. I don't remember Toyota issuing recalls for their oil sludge problems, or Honda for transmissions...
True they are mainly a safety issue. A friend of mine just had the 4l60e trans die in his '04 Trailblazer over the weekend leaving him stranded on I55. I know at least 20 people with GM vehicles with the 4l60e trans and more than 1/2 of them have had complete failures by 100k miles. Yet Honda's transmission keeps coming up on this topic. I think I know one person with a Honda trans failure, yet I know people with 1/2 ton Silverado's that are on their 4th trans rebuild.
We've had this identical discussion only a few weeks back, but ending at March 31, 2010 leaves out the huge, recent Toyota recalls. GM has not recalled 13 million cars in a little over a year. Only our friends at Toyota can make that claim. And no amount of whining can change that fact.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I rode with a salesman in a mid-2000's GP for a few hours, and I must say it was cramped for such a large car. Not that my Firebird was roomy for its length.
My '01 Pontiac Firebird ran fairly well. It was quite crude in many ways, but that's the way a car like that should be. It did have an interesting problem though - that the pop-up headlights were apparently damaging the bulbs. Those pop-ups really did slam down hard.
I had the left headlight go out on my 3 or 4 times under warranty. The dealers never blinked an eye, and I never saw GM addressing this issue with other Firebirds. It seemed to be a defect, that they just decided to repair until the warranty ran-out, rather than put in a fix, and make a recall.
I honestly have to ask the question..in total seriousness....you know 20 people with 4L60E complete failures by 100K miles--recently? I know two people with an Odyssey...one had complete failure at 70K, costing him $1,800 after Honda's "Goodwill". I've had three 4L60E trans--33K (leased), 60K, and 94K--the last one had a free pressure control solenoid and was still shifting beautifully on the way to the dealer two hours ago to pick up the Malibu. Over 1,800 posts on edmunds about Odyssey trans--are these all anomalies? I mean, it does beg the question of a rational person.
As I believe I asked 'anythingbutgm' recently--will you please buy me a lottery ticket?
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
>Grand Prix of yours this topic might have dried up years ago!
Isn't dieselone going to tell us the stories again. Someone might have signed on to this discussion thinking it was about GM, and good news, and not gotten the negatives yet; they might have missed the first 500 tellings. :P
Actually, we haven't had anyone new telling about problems with their Gran Prix. Maybe we should consider closing this thread since there are no new problems with people and new Gran Prix's. :shades:
Where are you seeing this? June's incentives are still $2,000 rebate and $1,000 "dealer cash". I bought at invoice, and the dealer five miles away wanted $200 over invoice.
The difference is that they post the price directly online. This makes it easy to shop around as it will tell you the rough distance to the dealer (though no exact info). You can do a google maps search and overlay the info to tell which 3 or 4 dealers that price likely came from.
It makes shopping extremely simple as the dealers will like to skip their fee if they can. Just mention that you saw the price on (name a car site - it's all the same call center or two) and there you go.
You can get these cars for essentially dealer cost. And then there's any special incentives like conquest or loyalty cash or something that's not normal factory to dealer rebates. (or GM dollars - got to like that if you have an old "black" card that caps at $3500)
BUT... I'd still rather have a used DTS for the same price. It's a nice car and all, but it's not the best stuff that GM makes by a long shot.
Honestly, I'm about to hang up this thread myself (probably to the pleasure of some folks--I know I can be a wise-guy). Is there anything that hasn't been said already? I gotta believe the Toyota and Hyundai forums are not as cluttered with anti-'them' posts as this thread is. It has become exhausting. I might be found only in the 'Classic Car' section going forward.
Of course it's the 'honeymoon' period, but I will say our Malibu is beautiful (OK, except the taillights!), and my wife is very happy. I actually quickly mistook a metallic black CTS coming toward me for a Malibu today. That was actually a nice feeling.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I honestly have to ask the question..in total seriousness....you know 20 people with 4L60E complete failures by 100K miles--recently?
I must have typed it wrong, I know approximately 20 people with GM trucks and SUVs and roughly 1/2 of them have had a trans failure, myself included (these are people I've worked with and boat and camp around). The vehicles pretty much range from late '90's to mid '00, the common theme was early trans death prior to 100k miles. Mine died at 47k.
I think my uncle's '97 Silverado's 4L60E died around 70-80,000 miles, and I think the second one crapped out around 108,000.
I was always under the impression that the 4L60E was sort of a successor to the old THM350 transmission. And that was really designed for vehicles weighing up to around 4,000 lb or so, and with engines up to around 350 cubic inches. My '76 LeMans weighs about 4000 lb and has a 350 (although if you do the math it's really a 353 CID), and my '85 Silverado weighs around 4200 and has a 305, and both of these have the THM350.
They're good transmissions, but if you want something set up for towing, or with a bigger engine, I think they usually gave you the THM400, which, I believe has been replaced by the 4L80E?
That 4L80E was probably the transmission that they should have been putting in the full-sized trucks and SUVs, but I think you had to get a 3/4 ton truck to get that transmission. In stuff like the Astro, the old S10 and S10 Blazer, etc, I think the 4L60E tends to be pretty reliable. My uncle's '97 just has the 4.3 V-6, but it's an extended cab, and has a shell on the back, so even it might be a bit too weighty for the 4L60E.
I understand. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity. Please note the smiley faces in my post.
The sludge forum was shut down because no one new was going on that discussion and complaining about their new sludge problems. Mostly it was people reminding toyota afficianados that sludge happens--that was the topic of the discussion, indeed.
Isn't the same thing going on with this forum within the thread of what's wrong with GM? We don't have a plethora of new people complaining about their GM's.
I see lots of good things happening. Like some other companies there are some things that were not as good. But reliability and quality have taken a step forward.
Even the Impala that I was in a couple of months back had a finish quality of materials that was much better than I had expected. It rode almost as well as our Limited leSabre. I thought to myself this would be a good car to replace our leSabre road car if something were to happen to it like an accident.
I had a Malibu as a loaner in the past. It was great. It had a four-speed with the 4-cylinder. Nice and peppy. It had sipped very little gas when I took it back to the rental from which the dealer had borrowed it. As a rental it was one of those demagogued vehicles, and had been abused but was still impressive. It would not have been the color combo I would have picked: it was loaner gray (or is it grey?).
If I had to buy a car tomorrow, it's be an Impala or a Cruze, unless the store had a really nicely equipped Malibu in the exact color and options that I would want. I know one store has a Cruze in the color I like.
The taxpayer has NOT been made whole. The bailout was a combination of loans (paid back) and BUYING A PART OF THE BANKRUPT COMPANY. The ownership of the company is still partially in the hands of the US government. If they sell their stock today, they lose over $10Billion. So the LOANS (which represent a small fraction of the bailout) were paid back. But the MONEY that the taxpayer poured into GM is nowhere near returned.
Over 1,800 posts on edmunds about Odyssey trans--are these all anomalies?
I don't think 1800 posts = 1800 Odysseys. The number of posts is not a good indication of reliability (or lack). Just look at all the noise those who are passionate make in any forum!
Even the Impala that I was in a couple of months back had a finish quality of materials that was much better than I had expected. It rode almost as well as our Limited leSabre. I thought to myself this would be a good car to replace our leSabre road car if something were to happen to it like an accident.
Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on the Lucerne? There's a part of me that wants to get something more efficient, if anything ever happens to my Park Ave, but I've also gotten used to the room, comfort, features, and power. So personally, I wouldn't rule out another Park Ave, or a LeSabre or Bonneville, or Lucerne. I like the Aurora as well, but I've heard they can be a bit troublesome.
I had to drive our gov't fleet Impala a couple months ago, and while it had its faults, it wasn't horrible. My biggest beef is the lack of back seat room, but if you're more average height and don't have to put the seat all the way back, that shouldn't be too much of an issue. Something else I didn't like was how it almost seemed to have turbo lag. If you stomped on it, it sort of just sat there for a moment while it wound up, and then it would take off fast enough to throw you back in your seat a bit. But, a 3.5 pushrod should NOT have turbo lag! :P
As for fit and finish, paint quality, interior, etc, it seemed okay to me. It was nothing to write home about, but honestly, with all the cost cutting done to keep prices reasonable, most cars in this price range aren't going to make you feel like you're in the Taj Mahal!
Heck, a Lucerne CXS would've been the sensible choice when I got my 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance. I'd have saved a ton of money up front. I'm thinking maybe a 3-holer Lucerne as a replacement for my Grand Marquis someday. There was a guy a work who has a 2010 Cobalt thinking of moving up to an Impala. He was asking me how much he'd get for his trade. I don't think much in light of the much nicer Cruze. On the other hand, he probably could get a new Impala for not much more than he paid for his Cobalt. hat, plus he's got a ton of points on his GM card.
Yeah, it would have definitely had the THM400. I think just about any GM car with a displacement of around 400 cubic inches or more used it, although I'm unsure about Chevy's 400, since that was a smallblock.
I think the THM400 might have gone up behind some engines in the ~350 CID range as well, if they were in heavier vehicles or set up for towing. I believe the RWD Cadillac limousines used the THM400 right up through 1984, mated to a 368 CID engine.
My comment on the Lucerne is there should have been a difference in vehicles between the leSabre replacement and the Park Avenue replacement. Instead the lower Lucernes are just very decontented, especially in terms of ride components. The struts and all give a much less controlled ride compared to the top model with electronically-controlled struts, e.g. The top model would have been interesting, but I preferred the price range lower.
After I found how much room the LaCrosse had, especially in the rear, I would not have wanted the Lucerne for myself. I set the front seat of a LaCrosse for my 5'7" frame, then I sat in the rear and I think it had more than Park AVenue's legroom for me.
After I found how much room the LaCrosse had, especially in the rear, I would not have wanted the Lucerne for myself. I set the front seat of a LaCrosse for my 5'7" frame, then I sat in the rear and I think it had more than Park AVenue's legroom for me.
I noticed that, as well. In my Park Ave, if I try to sit in the back of it, while the front seat is adjusted for me, my knees will touch the seatback. However, in the new LaCrosse, there was a bit more room and my knees didn't touch.
The LaCrosse did feel more claustrobhobic though, with its thicker pillars and small windows, and I think the seating position was a bit lower. It also seemed ilke it had less headroom, and I know it had less shoulder room. Still, a very comfy 4-seater though.
Yesterday I was at the mechanic picking up my '67 Catalina, and dropping off my '79 5th Ave. I noticed they had a mid-80's RWD Cutlass sedan in there. Those cars seemed just about the perfect size to me. Not too big, not too small, pretty roomy inside, good glass area, and not claustrophobic. Now, if only they hadn't cheaped out and made the rear door windows stationary!
Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on the Lucerne? There's a part of me that wants to get something more efficient, if anything ever happens to my Park Ave, but I've also gotten used to the room, comfort, features, and power. So personally, I wouldn't rule out another Park Ave, or a LeSabre or Bonneville, or Lucerne. I like the Aurora as well, but I've heard they can be a bit troublesome.
In another thread, I covered this in detail for someone.
The Lucerne is a perfect synthesis of GM magic if you get the CXS. Otherwise, you're better off getting a DTS, as they depreciate a bit quicker and a base model DTS is a better car than a base or middle model Lucerne (same platform - much better interior, IMO). ie - a 2007 DTS vs a 2008 base model Lucerne - no brainer.
But a CXS? It's got that Magnetic Ride suspension and the better V8 engine (the L37 is better if you hammer it, but the LD8 is better for actual driving and fuel economy) It's basically the perfect DTS - with 25% less cost, certified. And better looks as well, especially in a dark color.
You also mentioned that "lag" - that is due to the transmission's tall gearing and the lack of enough torque at the bottom end off of idle. This is typical for almost all GM V6 engines. And the L37 has a bit of it as well. But the LD8 doesn't - it pulls like a diesel, almost.
note - the 2007/2008 LaCrosse CXS has a similarly tuned for smoothness and torque vs speed and HP version of the 3.6 in the CTS. Torque comes on 500rpm lower than the CTS version of the same engine and it feels like a diesel is under the hood. Zero, and I mean *zero* power lag at any speed. It just is a perfect setup. But it doesn't have that Magnetic Ride suspension, which is something that I personally won't buy a GM car without after having driven the Lucerne CX and CXS back to back.
Jaw-dropping difference due to that suspension. A *Buick*(of all things) suddenly driving like late 90s S Class or 7 series. My brain still has a hard time, even years later, dealing with how stark a difference it was between the two models. Test drove one - nice and normal. A lot like the Avalon - big and normal GM car. Test drove the other and it drove like a European car two price brackets higher than the base model. Um - perhaps comparing a 5 series and a M5 would be similar, but really not even that describes is, since the base model is such a deficient typical "Buick". One was woefully sub-standard. The other was a proper luxury car ride.
Get your butt into a 2008 Lucerne CXS. Experience what nobody knows about and was completely missed by the auto magazines at the time.
Note - the 2009+ models are essentially the same, but have the same drivetrain out of the DTS Performance trim. L37 V8 with 3.71 gearing. Fine choice, but overkill for normal driving and quite a bit worse actual reported MPG. (LD8 has 3.11 gearing and more low-end torque)
list the exaggerations around 20 people? 14 qualifies around 1/2 of them? 6 qualifies subtract me leaves 5 over last 16 years. trans died? Include me and I never towed with it. My astro trans died. A common problem that hit '97 and '98 models. A whopping $120 to fix it. Been OK from 48k to 132k so far with the fix. It should have been a recall and local chev dealer offered to get GM to pay 1/2 of the $1500. Instead, I took it to an unaffiliated shop and they re-sleeved the alum housing 2-3 places AND replaced 5 sensors and solenoids for $120 more than just a fluid flush was. $275 incl tax where the power flush, conditioner and filter alone would have been $155. Died? It went into limp mode and shifted hard and had no 4th gear. In the end, the repair was cheaper than a new set of spark plugs. The shop told me that most people with the same problem unknowingly threw $1500 at it.
Why did GM completely fail??? Was it because of my posts here????
Don't forget that Wagoner said GM would never survive a bankruptcy. I wonder how he's doing? Haven't heard much of him lately. Probably enjoying his $millions. I wonder if he even feels guilty about it.
I'm not exaggerating. Being that I hang around a bunch of people who tow boats and campers, I'm constantly around those who drive pickups and SUVS. Those I know who have had a complete trans failure in a GM truck/SUV at low mileage is alarming (even Edmunds had one fail at low miles on an '07 Silvy). I personally know 10 examples of such failure, mine being one of them and one guy is on his 4th rebuild on a '98 Silvy with 160k on it.
The 10th guy is a camping buddy who's '04 TB's trans died over the weekend. Mine was in a '00 Suburban. I was able to drive it about 20 mph with the trans slipping severely, so I limped it into the dealer where they wanted $3k. Found an independent shop that did the rebuild for $1600 and provided me with a 3 year unlimited mile warranty. I can't remember all that was replaced, but I do remember many of the clutches were fried, a module and sensor wasn't going to fix it. Happened quick w/o warning. One minute everything was fine the next minute the engine was spinning at 4k rpm and I was going like 15 mph and and shuddered severely.
My neighbor's '02 Tahoe lost it's trans about 3 months after mine did. His did make it to about 80k and he never towed anything with it.
cheaper than a new set of spark plugs
Not in a 5.4L Ford. That cost me $800 due to 1/2 of them breaking off in the head. And that was only at 59k miles, God only knows how bad it would have been if I waited until 100k miles. A bad coil pack may have saved me a ton of money. I'll trade it in before I go through that grief again. Gotta love Detroit engineering.
I'm crossing my fingers that I don't have to find out how much it costs to rebuild a 6 speed auto. Mine shifts funny every now and then.
Sounds similar to mine. I've got a Black Granite 1LT with black interior but plastic wheel covers. MSRP was 24,400. My first new GM since '01 so I had the full $3500 on my GM card. My combined mpg's have gone up steadily from 25.5 to 29.5 over the first 6700 miles.
May not sell in NA. 2011 Caprice may be offered to public in US. The 4 banger turbo 2L in the Cruze SS is 280 HP. Wouldn't that be the Regal engine soon if it isn't already? The Cruze SS may only be offered as hatchback. Expect a 280 HP Cruze to be in the mid 20's. My friend's 2003 accord has 270 HP V6 and is similar to Cruze in weight and stickered for 28 ish with leather. Why the big deal if 8 yrs later a leather regal with 280 HP runs $32k?
May not sell in NA. 2011 Caprice may be offered to public in US. The 4 banger turbo 2L in the Cruze SS is 280 HP. Wouldn't that be the Regal engine soon if it isn't already? The Cruze SS may only be offered as hatchback. Expect a 280 HP Cruze to be in the mid 20's. My friend's 2003 accord has 270 HP V6 and is similar to Cruze in weight and stickered for 28 ish with leather. Why the big deal if 8 yrs later a leather regal with 280 HP runs $32k?
I don't know why GM tuned the 2.0 turbo in the Regal for 220hp initially. They had the 260hp version available in the Cobalt SS and Solstice GXP.
As for Regal price, I don't think it's ever been an issue except maybe the current model being underpowered. If it were to get boosted to 280HP that would certainly remedy that issue.
It still doesn't seem the Regal is selling all that well. I rarely see them except when I go buy a Buick dealer and they seem to have bunches on the lot. Nice enough car, just lots of competition.
Does ANYBODY like that name? It conjures up images in my mind of satin upholstery with buttons, soft floaty suspension, and a 60's-ish lady driving who has her short curly hair, too much makeup and perfume, big costume rings on most fingers, and a raspy voice.
Comments
Regards,
OW
A chronological list of recalls and recall news
I don't know about recalls, but I've primarily owned Ford and GM vehicles and just about all of them have displayed very poor quality. My 07 Expedition is falling apart just like most of Ford and GM products I've owned prior.
My wife's new Taurus is far from impressive. Torque steer, pulls to the left all of the time, and fit and finish is atrocious. But it's built with UAW pride. LOL.
Ironically I was there as Subaru's guest, not GM's, but they had ties back then.
If you go there check out the basement, it's a museum of sorts. Very cool.
And certainly, do *not* throw stones in there!
If this new Impala or a premium RWD Chevy exists, a HT coupe derivative should exist...might make a pretty Buick too.
Maybe he got a good one. As usually the case, I always seem to get the bad ones.
We can't possibly have a debt problem.
We are supplosed to completely forget about Korean mishaps over the last 15 years and judge them solely on todays product. For GM, it is just the opposite?
How does GM's recalls as a pct of sales compare over the last 3 years? Probably very competitive with other high volume sellers.
Don't assume that; show some data to back your claim up.
Otherwise all the big guys are severely handicapped.
GM may have the most cars recalled, but that's because they've outsold everyone else in the past 75 years or so.
Recalls don't necessarily mean poor quality either. Recalls only apply to components that may go wrong that pose a safety hazard. They don't measure poor fit-and-finish, mileage or time expectancy, etc. I don't remember Toyota issuing recalls for their oil sludge problems, or Honda for transmissions...
A recall can be a good thing - they found a solution, a fix to conclude a problem.
Of COURSE you do! If it hadn't been for that Grand Prix of yours this topic might have dried up years ago!
I can't wait for all the future Taurus stories..... :P
Q1 2011 profit:
GM: $3.2B
Well I'm an optimist that someday you'll understand that "profits on operations" doesn't include sales of stock or other assets. GM's profit from operation was well under $2B. Go back and reread the links, and pick up an Accounting book.
LOL, I guess I'll have to admit the GP was perfectly reliable (well except at the end the power steering pump sounded like a scalded dog). It was in other areas where it earned my scorn.
True they are mainly a safety issue. A friend of mine just had the 4l60e trans die in his '04 Trailblazer over the weekend leaving him stranded on I55. I know at least 20 people with GM vehicles with the 4l60e trans and more than 1/2 of them have had complete failures by 100k miles. Yet Honda's transmission keeps coming up on this topic. I think I know one person with a Honda trans failure, yet I know people with 1/2 ton Silverado's that are on their 4th trans rebuild.
My '01 Pontiac Firebird ran fairly well. It was quite crude in many ways, but that's the way a car like that should be. It did have an interesting problem though - that the pop-up headlights were apparently damaging the bulbs. Those pop-ups really did slam down hard.
I had the left headlight go out on my 3 or 4 times under warranty. The dealers never blinked an eye, and I never saw GM addressing this issue with other Firebirds. It seemed to be a defect, that they just decided to repair until the warranty ran-out, rather than put in a fix, and make a recall.
As I believe I asked 'anythingbutgm' recently--will you please buy me a lottery ticket?
Isn't dieselone going to tell us the stories again. Someone might have signed on to this discussion thinking it was about GM, and good news, and not gotten the negatives yet; they might have missed the first 500 tellings. :P
Actually, we haven't had anyone new telling about problems with their Gran Prix. Maybe we should consider closing this thread since there are no new problems with people and new Gran Prix's.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.truecar.com/prices-new/chevrolet/malibu-pricing/
This company uses the same service as cars direct and several others do (forget the name - but you'll get the same operators on the actual phone call).
The difference is that they post the price directly online. This makes it easy to shop around as it will tell you the rough distance to the dealer (though no exact info). You can do a google maps search and overlay the info to tell which 3 or 4 dealers that price likely came from.
It makes shopping extremely simple as the dealers will like to skip their fee if they can. Just mention that you saw the price on (name a car site - it's all the same call center or two) and there you go.
You can get these cars for essentially dealer cost. And then there's any special incentives like conquest or loyalty cash or something that's not normal factory to dealer rebates. (or GM dollars - got to like that if you have an old "black" card that caps at $3500)
BUT... I'd still rather have a used DTS for the same price. It's a nice car and all, but it's not the best stuff that GM makes by a long shot.
Of course it's the 'honeymoon' period, but I will say our Malibu is beautiful (OK, except the taillights!), and my wife is very happy. I actually quickly mistook a metallic black CTS coming toward me for a Malibu today. That was actually a nice feeling.
I must have typed it wrong, I know approximately 20 people with GM trucks and SUVs and roughly 1/2 of them have had a trans failure, myself included (these are people I've worked with and boat and camp around). The vehicles pretty much range from late '90's to mid '00, the common theme was early trans death prior to 100k miles. Mine died at 47k.
Nope, I promised not to bring it up again, I only made one more comment due to someone else bringing it up;)
I was always under the impression that the 4L60E was sort of a successor to the old THM350 transmission. And that was really designed for vehicles weighing up to around 4,000 lb or so, and with engines up to around 350 cubic inches. My '76 LeMans weighs about 4000 lb and has a 350 (although if you do the math it's really a 353 CID), and my '85 Silverado weighs around 4200 and has a 305, and both of these have the THM350.
They're good transmissions, but if you want something set up for towing, or with a bigger engine, I think they usually gave you the THM400, which, I believe has been replaced by the 4L80E?
That 4L80E was probably the transmission that they should have been putting in the full-sized trucks and SUVs, but I think you had to get a 3/4 ton truck to get that transmission. In stuff like the Astro, the old S10 and S10 Blazer, etc, I think the 4L60E tends to be pretty reliable. My uncle's '97 just has the 4.3 V-6, but it's an extended cab, and has a shell on the back, so even it might be a bit too weighty for the 4L60E.
I appreciate that and I remember.
I understand. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity. Please note the smiley faces in my post.
The sludge forum was shut down because no one new was going on that discussion and complaining about their new sludge problems. Mostly it was people reminding toyota afficianados that sludge happens--that was the topic of the discussion, indeed.
Isn't the same thing going on with this forum within the thread of what's wrong with GM? We don't have a plethora of new people complaining about their GM's.
I see lots of good things happening. Like some other companies there are some things that were not as good. But reliability and quality have taken a step forward.
Even the Impala that I was in a couple of months back had a finish quality of materials that was much better than I had expected. It rode almost as well as our Limited leSabre. I thought to myself this would be a good car to replace our leSabre road car if something were to happen to it like an accident.
I had a Malibu as a loaner in the past. It was great. It had a four-speed with the 4-cylinder. Nice and peppy. It had sipped very little gas when I took it back to the rental from which the dealer had borrowed it. As a rental it was one of those demagogued vehicles, and had been abused but was still impressive. It would not have been the color combo I would have picked: it was loaner gray (or is it grey?).
If I had to buy a car tomorrow, it's be an Impala or a Cruze, unless the store had a really nicely equipped Malibu in the exact color and options that I would want. I know one store has a Cruze in the color I like.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The taxpayer has NOT been made whole. The bailout was a combination of loans (paid back) and BUYING A PART OF THE BANKRUPT COMPANY. The ownership of the company is still partially in the hands of the US government. If they sell their stock today, they lose over $10Billion. So the LOANS (which represent a small fraction of the bailout) were paid back. But the MONEY that the taxpayer poured into GM is nowhere near returned.
I don't think 1800 posts = 1800 Odysseys. The number of posts is not a good indication of reliability (or lack). Just look at all the noise those who are passionate make in any forum!
Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on the Lucerne? There's a part of me that wants to get something more efficient, if anything ever happens to my Park Ave, but I've also gotten used to the room, comfort, features, and power. So personally, I wouldn't rule out another Park Ave, or a LeSabre or Bonneville, or Lucerne. I like the Aurora as well, but I've heard they can be a bit troublesome.
I had to drive our gov't fleet Impala a couple months ago, and while it had its faults, it wasn't horrible. My biggest beef is the lack of back seat room, but if you're more average height and don't have to put the seat all the way back, that shouldn't be too much of an issue. Something else I didn't like was how it almost seemed to have turbo lag. If you stomped on it, it sort of just sat there for a moment while it wound up, and then it would take off fast enough to throw you back in your seat a bit. But, a 3.5 pushrod should NOT have turbo lag! :P
As for fit and finish, paint quality, interior, etc, it seemed okay to me. It was nothing to write home about, but honestly, with all the cost cutting done to keep prices reasonable, most cars in this price range aren't going to make you feel like you're in the Taj Mahal!
I think the THM400 might have gone up behind some engines in the ~350 CID range as well, if they were in heavier vehicles or set up for towing. I believe the RWD Cadillac limousines used the THM400 right up through 1984, mated to a 368 CID engine.
After I found how much room the LaCrosse had, especially in the rear, I would not have wanted the Lucerne for myself. I set the front seat of a LaCrosse for my 5'7" frame, then I sat in the rear and I think it had more than Park AVenue's legroom for me.
I'm anxious to see the Verano.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I noticed that, as well. In my Park Ave, if I try to sit in the back of it, while the front seat is adjusted for me, my knees will touch the seatback. However, in the new LaCrosse, there was a bit more room and my knees didn't touch.
The LaCrosse did feel more claustrobhobic though, with its thicker pillars and small windows, and I think the seating position was a bit lower. It also seemed ilke it had less headroom, and I know it had less shoulder room. Still, a very comfy 4-seater though.
Yesterday I was at the mechanic picking up my '67 Catalina, and dropping off my '79 5th Ave. I noticed they had a mid-80's RWD Cutlass sedan in there. Those cars seemed just about the perfect size to me. Not too big, not too small, pretty roomy inside, good glass area, and not claustrophobic. Now, if only they hadn't cheaped out and made the rear door windows stationary!
In another thread, I covered this in detail for someone.
The Lucerne is a perfect synthesis of GM magic if you get the CXS. Otherwise, you're better off getting a DTS, as they depreciate a bit quicker and a base model DTS is a better car than a base or middle model Lucerne (same platform - much better interior, IMO). ie - a 2007 DTS vs a 2008 base model Lucerne - no brainer.
But a CXS? It's got that Magnetic Ride suspension and the better V8 engine (the L37 is better if you hammer it, but the LD8 is better for actual driving and fuel economy) It's basically the perfect DTS - with 25% less cost, certified. And better looks as well, especially in a dark color.
You also mentioned that "lag" - that is due to the transmission's tall gearing and the lack of enough torque at the bottom end off of idle. This is typical for almost all GM V6 engines. And the L37 has a bit of it as well. But the LD8 doesn't - it pulls like a diesel, almost.
note - the 2007/2008 LaCrosse CXS has a similarly tuned for smoothness and torque vs speed and HP version of the 3.6 in the CTS. Torque comes on 500rpm lower than the CTS version of the same engine and it feels like a diesel is under the hood. Zero, and I mean *zero* power lag at any speed. It just is a perfect setup. But it doesn't have that Magnetic Ride suspension, which is something that I personally won't buy a GM car without after having driven the Lucerne CX and CXS back to back.
Jaw-dropping difference due to that suspension. A *Buick*(of all things) suddenly driving like late 90s S Class or 7 series. My brain still has a hard time, even years later, dealing with how stark a difference it was between the two models. Test drove one - nice and normal. A lot like the Avalon - big and normal GM car. Test drove the other and it drove like a European car two price brackets higher than the base model. Um - perhaps comparing a 5 series and a M5 would be similar, but really not even that describes is, since the base model is such a deficient typical "Buick". One was woefully sub-standard. The other was a proper luxury car ride.
Get your butt into a 2008 Lucerne CXS. Experience what nobody knows about and was completely missed by the auto magazines at the time.
Note - the 2009+ models are essentially the same, but have the same drivetrain out of the DTS Performance trim. L37 V8 with 3.71 gearing. Fine choice, but overkill for normal driving and quite a bit worse actual reported MPG. (LD8 has 3.11 gearing and more low-end torque)
I agree with Andre about the higher beltline and shorter glass area. I'm just old fashioned about that lack of glass feeling.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Regards,
OW
Why did GM completely fail??? Was it because of my posts here????
Regards,
OW
around 20 people? 14 qualifies
around 1/2 of them? 6 qualifies
subtract me leaves 5 over last 16 years.
trans died? Include me and I never towed with it. My astro trans died. A common problem that hit '97 and '98 models. A whopping $120 to fix it. Been OK from 48k to 132k so far with the fix. It should have been a recall and local chev dealer offered to get GM to pay 1/2 of the $1500. Instead, I took it to an unaffiliated shop and they re-sleeved the alum housing 2-3 places AND replaced 5 sensors and solenoids for $120 more than just a fluid flush was. $275 incl tax where the power flush, conditioner and filter alone would have been $155.
Died? It went into limp mode and shifted hard and had no 4th gear. In the end, the repair was cheaper than a new set of spark plugs. The shop told me that most people with the same problem unknowingly threw $1500 at it.
Don't forget that Wagoner said GM would never survive a bankruptcy. I wonder how he's doing? Haven't heard much of him lately. Probably enjoying his $millions. I wonder if he even feels guilty about it.
The 10th guy is a camping buddy who's '04 TB's trans died over the weekend. Mine was in a '00 Suburban. I was able to drive it about 20 mph with the trans slipping severely, so I limped it into the dealer where they wanted $3k. Found an independent shop that did the rebuild for $1600 and provided me with a 3 year unlimited mile warranty. I can't remember all that was replaced, but I do remember many of the clutches were fried, a module and sensor wasn't going to fix it. Happened quick w/o warning. One minute everything was fine the next minute the engine was spinning at 4k rpm and I was going like 15 mph and and shuddered severely.
My neighbor's '02 Tahoe lost it's trans about 3 months after mine did. His did make it to about 80k and he never towed anything with it.
cheaper than a new set of spark plugs
Not in a 5.4L Ford. That cost me $800 due to 1/2 of them breaking off in the head. And that was only at 59k miles, God only knows how bad it would have been if I waited until 100k miles. A bad coil pack may have saved me a ton of money. I'll trade it in before I go through that grief again. Gotta love Detroit engineering.
I'm crossing my fingers that I don't have to find out how much it costs to rebuild a 6 speed auto. Mine shifts funny every now and then.
I don't know why GM tuned the 2.0 turbo in the Regal for 220hp initially. They had the 260hp version available in the Cobalt SS and Solstice GXP.
As for Regal price, I don't think it's ever been an issue except maybe the current model being underpowered. If it were to get boosted to 280HP that would certainly remedy that issue.
It still doesn't seem the Regal is selling all that well. I rarely see them except when I go buy a Buick dealer and they seem to have bunches on the lot. Nice enough car, just lots of competition.
Does ANYBODY like that name? It conjures up images in my mind of satin upholstery with buttons, soft floaty suspension, and a 60's-ish lady driving who has her short curly hair, too much makeup and perfume, big costume rings on most fingers, and a raspy voice.