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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    GM's profit from operation was well under $2B

    That's still many times better than Toyota's TOTAL profit of $0.3B.

    What's your point?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Even the trucks GM makes reflect the quality issues that have plagued them over the years. The FACT that they produced second to third rate CARS for decades underscores the horrible business acumen of the so-called management.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    My issue with GM is that they continue to underwhelm and price high.

    Why not offer a 280 HP Malibu for $20K. As we have seen, they are discounting them now anyway. Seems Old GMish mentality is alive and well.

    Surprise instead of disappoint, GM. Never learn!

    Regards,
    OW
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    What's your point?

    Well - how about giving a more neutral presentation of the facts? Touting a $3.2B profit is about as honest as saying to a bank that your income is $250,000; leaving out the fact that your job pays $125K and you sold a condo for $125K.

    As I said before, I've bought 4 new GM's in the last 20 years, but nothing in the last 10. I preferred their vehicles; never bought a new Toyota or Hyundai. But do I like GM as an organization, their arrogance, their idiot leaders, their having plundered the wealth of decades, and their failure to change. Hell no. I still don't see anywhere near enough change in GM. Still doing the same old car and truck lineups, selling the same old way ...

    It looks like the conomy is headed down again, and it will accelerate downward when the government cuts or we default as a nation. So ask yourself - what's GM going to do in the next year as the economy sputters. They have no large $ reserves. Anyone want to bet that in the next few years, they're going to need new loans? This time the government will try to hide the loans, and force some failing, bailed out banks to provide the loans, rather than the Feds taking the heat again. Just watch! :(
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    edited June 2011
    Right. If I was going to contemplate spending $32K on a new Buick Regal, I'd just pony-up a few more thousand and buy an Infiniti G37X which has AWD and more power. Or a Certified Preowned BMW.

    With the coming economy I would think GM would be better focusing on selling in the $10K - $20K range. If I were GM I'd be designing bare-bones subcompacts, for people making the $10-$15/hr at the jobs that the new economy is creating.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,024
    and a 60's-ish lady driving who has her short curly hair, too much makeup and perfume, big costume rings on most fingers, and a raspy voice

    "FRAAANNNKKK! I'm getting a sick headache!"
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    "FRAAANNNKKK! I'm getting a sick headache!"

    Andre, your killing me. That's hilarious because my grandpa went by Frank (his middle name) and that's exactly how my grandma would call his name to nag him about this or that. He did have a Caprice at one time too:)
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited June 2011
    Well - how about giving a more neutral presentation of the facts? Touting a $3.2B profit is about as honest as saying to a bank that your income is $250,000; leaving out the fact that your job pays $125K and you sold a condo for $125K.

    That is exactly right. If you you read a GM's 10-Q it's hard to determine how they are actually making money. You'll see a big figure for things like "goodwill" etc. $30 billion worth on their last quarterly balance sheet. What is that actually? Who knows.

    GM is certainly not alone in this area. To my knowledge GM still hasn't posted any financial reports that are GAAP, they've all been non-GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles) meaning they've likely taken many liberties in boosting results.

    Once again, GM is not alone in this department. Many companies have been posting non-GAAP numbers including Ford I believe.

    Probably the best way to evaluate GM is to look at retained earnings and cash flow. It harder to manipulate those numbers. I haven't done that because I won't be investing in GM anytime soon.

    As of March 31st Toyota had 43B in cash on hand vs 29 billion for GM. Now GM has huge advantage now that their balance sheet has been cleaned up. They have a fraction of the debt Ford and Toyota currently have. So they should be showing big profit numbers. Currently Ford spends nearly 1$ billion/quarter for interest expenses GM had wiped off their books.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    FRAAANNNKKK! I'm getting a sick headache!"

    "It's all right, Mrs. Stevens, it's all right".
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    Search for Toyota recalls

    346

    Search for Lexus recalls

    53

    346+53=399

    Search for GM recalls

    75

    Hmmmmm. :blush:

    http://www.insideline.com/search/?q=toyota+recall

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My first new car was a black 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic with a grey cloth interior. A friend of mine actually bought a new 1982 Caprice Classic when he was in high school with money he got from an inheritance. My Grandpop's last car was a 1989 Caprice Classic Brougham.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    I bought a new '93 Caprice Classic w/F41 when I was 35 and my wife was 28. I'm sure that's some kind of record :) .
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    It would depend on how good the car is. I wouldn't simply avoid it because of the "caprice" name.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, I was only 22 and fresh out of college. That really must be a record!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    edited June 2011
    Heck, I was only 22 and fresh out of college. That really must be a record!

    I think so!

    My first new car out of college was a new '81 Monte Carlo V8 with no air and positraction! My roommate bought a new Firebird. I was ribbed by friends for buying a Monte Carlo, but I still like that '81-88 bodystyle. At the end of our street is an old ramshackle garage building with an '86-88 LS with those checkerboard factory wheels on them, but almost no lower doors left! I always loved those wheels.

    When I was in college, in Clarion, PA, I remember the 'wash boy' (probably 20 or so) at Ron Seidle Chev-Cadillac in town ordered for himself a new '78 Caprice Classic Landau, navy blue, white top, with every option, 350, F41, Custom interior, and I think sunroof...I do remember the sticker was a jaw-dropping $9,600! To this day I'd like a loaded '77-79 Caprice coupe, but you just don't see them.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,024
    I wouldn't simply avoid it because of the "caprice" name.

    Same here, although I always liked the name "Impala" better. It just sounded cooler, even to a little kid who didn't know what either name meant.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The coupes were kind of rare, even when they were new. There used to be a green 1979 Caprice Classic Landau parked near a candy store when I was a young teen.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Trouble is, the name "Impala" was pretty watered-down by the mid 1970s. I'd say from 1958 through 1970, the Impala nameplate still had some prestige, but from 1971 on, I think of my friend's Dad's rather plainish brown 1973 Impala sedan with the black cloth and vinyl interior.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    Trouble is, the name "Impala" was pretty watered-down by the mid 1970s. I'd say from 1958 through 1970, the Impala nameplate still had some prestige, but from 1971 on, I think of my friend's Dad's rather plainish brown 1973 Impala sedan with the black cloth and vinyl interior.

    I know what you mean. Generally, I thought they spent a ton of money on the outside of the car in '71--making it larger, etc.--but the details of the '70 were the last of the 'nicer-trimmed' Impalas. They came with side moldings, rocker trim, wheel opening trim, and the interiors had color-keyed wheel and column, and generous (fake) woodgrain. '71 started the era of plastic lower door panels, black steering wheels, black columns, black instrument clusters, etc. Although, generally, like Andre, I like the less-pretentious grilles and lack of skirts, etc., of those Impalas better than the same-year Caprices.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I think the 1971 Caprice was trying too hard to be a 1969 Cadillac.

    The 1970 Impala was a beautiful car. My Uncle Daniel had a beautiful dark blue metallic 1970 Impala Custom with a black vinyl top and the concave rear window. The interior of that car seemed as plush as any Caprice.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,024
    I guess I just have a fond memory of the 70's Impalas because the first thing I think of is my grandparents' '72 Impala 4-door hardtop, Sequoia green with a white vinyl top, and a green cloth/vinyl interior. Back in those days, I think color really could make or break a car. They had some gorgeous colors, but also some very hideous ones.

    I also like the fact that you could get a true hardtop coupe in the Impala range through 1975. The Caprice went to opera windows for '74, while the '74-75 Impala offered either. But then, even the Impala succumbed for '76.

    IIRC, wasn't 1972 the last year for the Impala convertible? I think they transferred it to the Caprice line for '73? And I'm also drawing a blank, but wasn't '73 the first year you could get a Caprice pillared sedan?

    Even though the Impala got cheaper and cheaper as time went by, I still thought it was attractive looking. I really liked the grille on the '81-85, which was a lattice affair with two bold horizontal bars, like this.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I'm with Andre on the Impala name. For whatever reason I like it better than "Caprice".

    Really, all that is required to make a name cool again is put it on a good product.

    Though some names like Vega, Cimarron, Citation etc, probably should never be revived;)

    Ford has it's share too. Pinto, Granada, Zepher etc. Though I'd love to see the T-Bird come back if done appropriately.

    I do prefer names vs. the alpha stuff they are doing now. ATS, CTS, XTS, MKS, MKZ, MKT etc, I'm not a fan.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I remember those Impalas mostly as taxis. My Grandpop had a black 1980 Impala after his green 1974 Impala. The 1980 Impala had a different grille:

    image
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,024
    edited June 2011
    Interestingly, 1980 would prove to be the last year of the annual grille changes, for both Impala and Caprice Classic. Here's an '80 Caprice:
    image

    For 1981-85, the Impala used that grille that I posted above, while the '81-85 Caprice Classic went to this:
    image

    Then for 1986, the Impala went away, replaced by a base sedan simply called "Caprice". It had the same grille and taillights as the rest of the Caprice lineup, but used the old Impala door panels and seats.

    BTW, when did Chevy start calling all the Caprices "Caprice Classic", anyway? Was it when they downsized in '77, or earlier than that?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    edited June 2011
    I distinctly remember that 1980 color in your photo, Andre..."Cinnabar". Dreadful! I saw it on a good number of '80 Impalas, Malibus, and Monte Carlos.

    My parents bought a new '80 Monte Carlo in a striking dark green metallic that was reminiscent of a military green...closest I've seen to it is the dark green metallic used on some Camrys now. It had a factory painted gold pinstripe, rally wheels, and belt moldings. I liked the four headlights better than the '78 and '79, but it had too much test-tube woodgrain inside. I liked the gloss black inserts on the '78 and '79 better. What made me even think of this was, Dad drove an '80 Impala coupe and the '80 Monte Carlo, and even though the Impala felt more substantial, the looks of the Monte won our whole family over.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    1977 is the first time I clearly remember seeing the "Caprice Classic" nameplate, but it may have been on a limited number of 1976 models.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    In 1973, all Caprices were called "Caprice Classic". That didn't change 'til the Impala name was dropped in the mid'80's and as Andre pointed out, the name "Caprice" took over the Impala name in the lineup.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,024
    I wish they'd bring back some of those nice, subdued greens. I remember when the 2008 Malibu first came out, it offered a greenish color called "lichen" or "mica" or something like that....sort of a dark, greenish-gray color. I've seen a few Lucernes with it, too. Chrysler was offering a similar color called "Magnesium" on the Magnum/300 when they first came out, but it's been dropped as well.

    I guess green is just one of those colors that comes into style for a bit, and then goes away. I think even Nissan dropped its sage green, which, if I had gotten an Altima, was the color I wanted.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    edited June 2011
    I don't know why GM tuned the 2.0 turbo in the Regal for 220hp initially. They had the 260hp version available in the Cobalt SS and Solstice GXP.

    My thought behind this is that they were aiming for the TSX buyer, since they offer only a 201-HP 4-cylinder. The TSX V6 is another story, though.

    As for Regal price, I don't think it's ever been an issue except maybe the current model being underpowered. If it were to get boosted to 280HP that would certainly remedy that issue.

    Agreed to a point. I'd think it would tread too close to Regal GS territory. I'd make the Turbo about 250 HP, then bump up the GS to 280-300 HP.

    And for the record, Buick's website rates the upcoming GS at 255-HP. Weaksauce! :sick:

    It still doesn't seem the Regal is selling all that well. I rarely see them except when I go buy a Buick dealer and they seem to have bunches on the lot. Nice enough car, just lots of competition.

    I've seen a few of them. They've helped Buick sales in general, though...
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    So you are counting topics that are discussions about Toyota recall situations as actual recalls? :sick: Do you form any opinions outside of what you read on Edmunds?

    btw, here's another one for Government Motors

    Oops

    And add another 900k...

    link title

    Hey, I can skew the data too, since even the petty, non-starter stuff seems to count around here... :sick:
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    On the Caprice vs. Impala debate, I much prefer the Impala as well. Despite the mistakes made in the '70s with the Impala name, I think more of the musclecar Impala from the late '60s, while "Caprice" reminds me of '90s cop cars and that gawd-awful-lookin' wagon. :sick:
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited June 2011
    And for the record, Buick's website rates the upcoming GS at 255-HP. Weaksauce! :sick:

    Granted it will have more torque than most v6's with similar to more HP, but it certainly is nothing brag about. I don't understand why GM holding back. If I'm buying a a Regal GS, I should never have to worry about seeing taillights on a freakin Sonata Period. I understand the chassis better and overall the Regal is a nicer, more expensive car. Still, if GM is going to put the "GS" badge on a Regal, it better back it up by smoking lesser vehicles. 255HP should be the minimum HP of the turbo model.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited June 2011
    I gotta believe the Toyota and Hyundai forums are not as cluttered with anti-'them' posts as this thread is.

    Sadly that is definitely *not* the case. Here's the "bash Toyota" thread:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efda853/14053#MSG14053

    Also note the cross-post, though what he write there is edited to be a little extra insulating towards Toyota.

    Tell you what, though, the deal you got was amazing, and with that sort of price advantage I'd easily have picked the Malibu over the Camry too, without a doubt. I'm surprised Toyota sold any Camrys at all in May, given the lack of incentives. All they had to do was wait a month and boom, incentives are back.

    But as PT Barnum said, a sucker is born every minute.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Then there was the constant barrage of posts from our buddy "revit"... That crap went on for months. :sick:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    The 1970 Impala was a beautiful car. My Uncle Daniel had a beautiful dark blue metallic 1970 Impala Custom with a black vinyl top and the concave rear window. The interior of that car seemed as plush as any Caprice.

    Boy, I can just picture that car and the dark blue it was--it was dark but not a navy blue. IMO it'd even be prettier than a '70 Caprice that color. The trim, inside and out, was tasteful, while sometimes the Caprice tried too hard to be a Chevy "Bonneville Brougham" or "Electra Limited"--lots of frilly panty cloth, etc.

    You've got me thinking about '70 Impalas more than I have in a long time! Seems like, sadly though, I remember a lot of them being that goldish-brown. For some reason I liked that on the '72's but got tired of it on '70's.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It still doesn't seem the Regal is selling all that well. I rarely see them except when I go buy a Buick dealer and they seem to have bunches on the lot. Nice enough car, just lots of competition.

    Sales are OK, but it takes a lot of incentives to sell them.

    Buick sales were up last month, in a terrible market.

    But...they're leasing for $259 with a really small down payment.

    Boost that 220hp back up to Solistice GXP levels and I'm sure transaction prices would be much higher.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Another vote for Impala.

    They should have just rebadged the G8 GT as an Impala SS.

    I'd even go a step further - start selling the SS model ONLY. Phase in lesser models later. That would create a nice halo for the Impala name.

    Plus, a RWD Impala SS like that would not overlap at all with the Malibu, no matter what engine they put it the 'bu.

    With the police interceptors available now, you have to wonder why they don't do that...
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    GM may have the most cars recalled, but that's because they've outsold everyone else in the past 75 years or so.

    Correction

    GM did not outsell everyone else in the past 75 years, they out GAVE AWAY in the past. They didn't sell at prices that were sustainable or made any profit. They were losing money faster than a drunken sailor. They GAVE AWAY more cars than anyone else, using bailouts and tax payer funding, but I wouldn't call that sales. In essence, they cheated and stole.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,024
    With the police interceptors available now, you have to wonder why they don't do that...

    Most likely, four dirty little letters: C A F E

    Plus, where are these interceptors being built? In the US, or are they shipping them over from Australia like they did the G8 and GTO? They may not have the capacity to build a whole lot just yet.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I imagine Australia.

    How 'bout a Ute to bring back a small pickup?
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    My first new GM since '01 so I had the full $3500 on my GM card

    I can't help but think that most of the PRO GM people that post here only wanted GM to be bailed out and to survive for soley one purpose:

    1) So that they could still use their maxed out 3,500 dollar GM credit card rebate!

    :sick:
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    edited June 2011
    Still, if GM is going to put the "GS" badge on a Regal, it better back it up by smoking lesser vehicles.

    Well it is FWD. It should be AWD w/a limited slip like my Mazdaspeed6. I see Buick's effort as being about 10 years behind the competition in this case.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree, but let's be fair - the MazdaSpeed3 easily outsells the 6 even though it lacked AWD.

    The issue here is Buick isn't known for AWD, Subaru and Audi are. How will they market it?

    Old people who golf....in the snow belt? :shades:
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    Their stock just hit a low of $29.02, and their market share is #1...Go figure..

    Owned 2 Camaros, 1971 SS350, bought new and put 90k miles on in 18 months..Outstanding car, paid 3100, sold for $2100..Car was sold in Arizona, clocked back to 45k..

    I bought my wife a new 1982 Z-28, kept it 5 yrs, 45k miles, gutless wonder, but she liked it, sold it to a friend, and 30 days later it caught on fire..Great ending for it. Next car for the wife was a new 87 Buick Electra T-Type, white w/red leather..Nothing to brag about. Her next car was her start on Cadillacs, 1991 Deville, Touring Sedan..etc

    Again, have owned 34 GM cars to date so I am well versed on their offerings dating back to 1948...My 2nd car was a 1948 Chev 4dr, Fleetmaster which I destroyed the engine and later rolled the car..My first car was a 35 Ford V-8 1/4 ton P/U, with a 47 ford engine, no mufflers, no brakes but I was only 14 so my road travel was limited to the Indiana farm property except when I hit the backroads..

    I learned that Chevrolet did not have a full pressure oil system in their engines until the mid-1950s, they had scoops on the crankshaft that threw the oil around..No wonder the gangsters of the 30s loved those Ford V-8s...

    In the 2 Chevies I had in my earlier life the 48 and a 50, after 68 mph the oil pressure gauge would drop and at 80 you were living on borrowed time..The 48 engine blew up @ 65 mph 2nd gear..by comparison my 50 Ford Crestliner V-8 with 3 spd manual with overdrive was happy at 90 mph in 2nd gear..

    The last decent Impala was the SS-4dr of the mid-90s, however I didn't get involved..
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    > no brakes but I was only 14 so my road travel was limited to the Indiana farm property except when I hit the backroads..

    Are you a Hoosier?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    Interesting argument by Mitt Romney today on CBS. He said he opposed the bailout of GM proposed by Obama and Bush. He said the $17B they were given pre BK was a waste. He said let them go BK. He said that Obama later took his advice and let them go into BK. that is how they became lean, mean, and healthy. The original Q to Mitt was look how you opposed the bailout and yet GM created 117,000 new jobs as a result of the bailout. Why were you so wrong? Mitt said they followed my reccommendation and that's why it worked out.

    117,000 new jobs is considered a bad thing for many who post here.

    The dems new party chief said that Obama inherited a recession and has 'literally turned it around 180 degrees'. How many people are ignorant enough to believe her?
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    GM created 117,000 new jobs as a result of the bailout

    Wow, that's quite the bump in jobs! That's a 270% increase!

    Number of GM Employees in the US
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    >GM created 117,000 new jobs as a result of the bailout

    I suspect that includes ancillary jobs in suppliers and some other things directly related to GM's surviving and now building new lines.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I imagine Australia.

    Yep - they'll be made down undah.

    How 'bout a Ute to bring back a small pickup?

    GM is threatening to do so. IMHO, the 4 people interested probably will think it's too expensive.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No doubt politicians on both sides will spin this to no end, but....

    That number probably includes tier I and tier II suppliers.
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