GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    There is not a single GM automobile made in Mexico.

    Nope, but there are plenty that come from Canada...

    Imports are imports...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,906
    edited September 2011
    This is easily the fourth, fifth, sixth (?) time you've posted that picture. That was one of less than 4,000 cars recalled. Please re-read about the Honda recalls and post the numbers here for all to see please. Thank you in advance.

    GM has been building in Canada for decades. I clearly remember brand-new '73 Monte Carlos from there at our local dealership ("Oshawa, Ontario"). While that's not the U.S., which I'd prefer, assembling a U.S design in Mexico is a much-newer phenomenon--starting only after NAFTA. Car companies that build in Mexico are milking the system for all its worth. Even UAW-haters have to logically concede that no one in the U.S. would assemble cars for what the Mexicans are being paid. Do you think Canadians are jumping fences to get into the U.S.? Sheesh, wise up.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    Think they were polymer or or some kind or rubberized door.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Camaro tails - I meant the shape of the bulges, squared off circles. The layout is different (vertical for starters), but it does seem like the designer drew inspiration from the Camaro, and the Malibu that followed.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Traverse sales are good, but Lambda sales combined are even better. GM designed a solid platform and they're milking it for all its worth.

    Also note that Sierra+Silverado beat Ford F series if you combine them. Gotta wonder if GM would be better off?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    all this push toward hybrid type technologies to up mileage is going to end up a big battery disposal and pollution problem down the road

    Not really - nickel metal hydride batteries are harmless. You can plant a raised bed garden right on top of 'em.

    Ironically, lead-acid batteries are extremely harmful to the environment, even hazardous.

    Not sure about Li-ion but I doubt anything is as bad as lead-acid.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Camaro tail lights, come on, no Camaro tail lights there.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That commercial sounds GREAT.

    Please share in the Car Commercials thread, I'd love to see it...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    This dog will hit 100 lbs pretty quick and she'll probably have to trade the sedan for a wagon or crossover. There goes my vision of a pony car in the garage!

    Same boat, here. Was hoping my next family car could be downsized a bit, but with a Saluki mix, that ain't happening.

    I think he'd take up the entire back seat of a Sonic! :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2011
    Wrong thread? Why share a Honda recall in a GM thread?

    Cracks me up.

    Answer this - personal choice, would you pick a Fit or an Aveo? Be honest. That was GM's alternative.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd pick an Aveo for two reasons - Mom has had good luck with hers and thieves are stealing Fit wheels left and right in Philly.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    Insurance might be cheaper on an Aveo as well. If a Fit has a higher theft rate, tends to be owned by younger drivers, etc, it's going to cost more to insure, even if the Fit scores better in crash testing, has lower death rates, etc.

    I'm not a fan of either one, but for me it would boil down to which one is more comfortable to me. Or, in my case, which one is less UN-comfortable! :P I can't really remember how the Aveo felt, but the Fit had limited legroom, and forced me to lean inward, away from the B-pillar.

    Oddly, the only thing I remember about the Aveo was being impressed at the quality of the leatherette interior. It actually fooled me, for an instant, into thinking it was real leather!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    You'd be surprised how much an Aveo has. I sat in the back seat behind my Mom who was driving and had plenty of space. My Mom is rather tall for a woman - about 5' 7" or 5' 8".
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Not really - nickel metal hydride batteries are harmless

    Well I certainly hope that is true. But I seem to recall a decade or two ago when every municipality was touting getting electronics industry because it was clean. Nowadays however, take a look at cancer rates in areas around that industry in places like CA and AZ.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    starting only after NAFTA

    It started prior to NAFTA. My 1989 Mercury Tracer I drove while in college was manufactured in Hermosillo, Mexico. Ford started using that plant in 1986, 6 year prior to NAFTA. Ford built some Escorts there too.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,906
    I don't believe that was an American Ford design, was it? I'm thinking those Tracers were sold elsewhere in the world before being imported into the U.S. Not certain though. I know I never, ever, ever, saw a GM vehicle built in Mexico until after our illustrious President (fill in the blank) signed NAFTA into law.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2011
    I don't believe that was an American Ford design, was it?

    No, it was a Mazda 323, but it was built in Ford's plant in Mexico, also some 1988 and newer Escorts were built there and the '88 definitely was a Ford design.

    GM was certainly building vehicles in Mexico before NAFTA. I don't know if any of those vehicles were imported to the US prior to NAFTA, but GM's Ramos Arizpe plant was opened in 1981.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,906
    edited September 2011
    All I can say is I hung out at Chevy dealers more than most guys hang out at bars, and the first Chevys I saw coming from Mexico were the two-door "big" Blazers (later Tahoe 2-doors)...first half of the '90's I'd say. Even the cheapest Cavaliers always came out of Lordstown.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I think the 4th gen malibu from the late 70's to early 80's was built in Mexico for the the Mexican market along with a few other models.

    I found this to be an interesting quick read.

    http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/Ramos_Arizpe

    All I can say is I hung out at Chevy dealers more than most guys hang out at bars

    That alone would make me want to drink;)
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    I'll do it when I can, Iluv. Kinda hetic right now. We're fixin to do the road trip to the Grand Canyon. The German Shepherd, Major, is staying at a friend's farm nearby while we're away. Better for him to chew on cows than my arms! Don't know if the wife would go for an Evoque, but you never know! Looks like the tailgate height would work, though. Thanks!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Well, here is something you might not know:

    China is the biggest player for GMIO, contributing 28 percent of GM’s total global sales volume.

    Last year, GMIO accounted for 41 percent of GM’s vehicle sales (up from 7 percent in 2000), and 28 percent of global Chevrolet sales (up from 1 percent in 2000). Between 2009 and 2010, GMIO region sales jumped 25 percent (to over 3.3 million units).

    Might want to start hanging out in the other hemisphere! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,906
    Might want to start hanging out in the other hemisphere!

    Nothing in that hemisphere I care to see.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd pick an Aveo

    I'd ride the bus. ;)

    Sonic isn't pretty but it should be a much better car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ford and Mazda shared a lot back then. My 91 Ford Escort GT had the engine from the Protoge ES, the 1.8l that made its way in to the Miata in 1994. The Tracer LTS and Escort LX-E also used that Mazda engine.

    I bought an oil filter at a Ford dealer and it said "Made in Japan". Go figure.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    edited September 2011
    People are always trying to "hate" GM. Lutz covered it pretty well in his book how the older company gets all the "hate" from media and others.

    I think in this case all the hate was earned. Hate is a strong word, but is probably earned by GM.

    There is no motive to hate GM. Unless, of course, they sold you a :lemon: .
    Poor service and warranty back-up would also cause a bad relationship.

    I can't think of any other reasonable possibility (Pre-bailouts!) that someone would HATE GM other then that which I've mentioned above, so it is most definitely earned.

    Of course, you might have a few disgruntled former employees or competitive employees at other companies, but those don't number to a substantial amount of people that could effectively drive a company to bankruptcy and lost market share on the scale that GM lost it.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    I think we should be able to talk about the epic and utter failure that was the Saturn Astra.

    Afterall, it wasn't 20 years ago that car came out! :P

    What was GM thinking?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It was a good car a decade or so ago, when it came out.

    Of course GM wanted a car to compete with the old, old Focus, and they got one.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    Of course GM wanted a car to compete with the old, old Focus, and they got one.

    The Astra was basically the European version of the Cobalt, wasn't it? I sat in a few in auto shows, and remember thinking the interior seemed pretty nice, but the car seemed a bit pricey, and the EPA fuel economy ratings weren't so hot.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not sure which platforms were shared between Opel and Chevy. They got, what, Corsa, Celta, Astra, Omega, Beta Gamma Delta.

    Sounds like a fraternity.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    The Astra was basically the European version of the Cobalt, wasn't it? I sat in a few in auto shows, and remember thinking the interior seemed pretty nice, but the car seemed a bit pricey, and the EPA fuel economy ratings weren't so hot.

    As a Saturnista, I was very excited when it was announced that the Astra would be available in the US. I think what doomed it was the following:

    1) Underpowered - it was the first application of the 1.8L engine now used in the Cruze, but for some reason the 138HP seemed low when compared to what it was cross shopped against.

    2) Overpriced - the Astra was built in Belgium and imported to the US, which made it expensive

    3) Features - no OnStar, no aux jack for the stereo - really?

    Now, had GM also decided to bring the GTR (?) across with the turbo engine, it might have been a different story - a legitimate competitor to the GTI.

    Ah, well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/06/2012-buick-verano-gets-a-starting-price-of-23- -470/

    A little ambitious...though it has unique engines vs. the Cruze it's based on.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    A little ambitious...though it has unique engines vs. the Cruze it's based on.

    Good to see that GM is deviating, if only a little bit, from the old badge engineering playbook. The 2.4L engine will differentiate the Verano from the Cruze.

    But, I gotta ask this .. what will the Verano be cross shopped against? The TSX? I thought that was the Regal's mission.

    What other 'near premium' compact 4 cylinder engine cars can you think of? I would have said the Volvo S40, but that's been discontinued (and featured a 5-cyl, thank you very much).
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2011
    But, I gotta ask this .. what will the Verano be cross shopped against? The TSX? I thought that was the Regal's mission.

    Yeah, that's a good question. I just don't see younger people who are more likely to spend more on a small car, looking at a a Buick. But with anything it will take time to change perceptions.

    What other 'near premium' compact 4 cylinder engine cars can you think of? I would have said the Volvo S40, but that's been discontinued (and featured a 5-cyl, thank you very much).

    Well, Audi A3 and A4 have offered 4cyl for a long time. BMW will be offering a 4cyl in the new 3 series and 5 series, and Acura too. Granted, the Audi and BMW 4cylinders are turbocharged. Add Saab to the list also.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,906
    Believe me, people hated GM back when they were strong and made the best cars, period. People often hate the biggest. Always has been, always will.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    As a Saturnista,

    I like that. And it certainly applies.

    Your tale of the Astra downfall is right on the money. I was so disappointed because the press on it looked great - and it was a nice, attractive little car.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    But, I gotta ask this .. what will the Verano be cross shopped against? The TSX? I thought that was the Regal's mission.

    Yeah, that's a good question. I just don't see younger people who are more likely to spend more on a small car, looking at a a Buick. But with anything it will take time to change perceptions.

    What other 'near premium' compact 4 cylinder engine cars can you think of? I would have said the Volvo S40, but that's been discontinued (and featured a 5-cyl, thank you very much).

    Well, Audi A3 and A4 have offered 4cyl for a long time. BMW will be offering a 4cyl in the new 3 series and 5 series, and Acura too. Granted, the Audi and BMW 4cylinders are turbocharged. Add Saab to the list also.


    I think it's possible that the "younger" generation of buyers are looking more and more at Buick, so the Verano may get a look see.

    I thought about the A3 and A4, but both of them price out in the 30's, by and large. BMW's are also much more expensive. With the Saab, it's only a matter of time before they get buried.

    The Verano may be in a league of its own. The configurator on the buick.com website isn't active yet, but it will be interesting to see what kind of features you get for the money.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I was a fan of GM when they were gigantic. If they'd taken 100% of the market in the early 70s that would have been fine by me.

    In my mind they self-destructed bit by bit by bit.

    They now seem to be successfully reversing that trend. The current things coming out of Chevy and Buick are more than a bit better than their predecessors. We only now need to see if they really did change the culture.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Your tale of the Astra downfall is right on the money. I was so disappointed because the press on it looked great - and it was a nice, attractive little car.

    Yeah, I really liked the looks of the Astra 3-door -- the GTI had nothing on it, when you equipped the Astra with the XR trim level and got the big (18" or 19") wheels and tires.

    Speaking of Saturn, a number of years ago I wrote a short paper detailing what models Saturn (GM) could bring over from their European model line (Opel / Vauxhall). I'll post it here again for review and comment:

    Over on the Vauxhall website - this can be found at www.vauxhall.co.uk - this is the current (well, now 2-3 years old) lineup. In no particular order:

    Agila - Rebadged Daewoo. Surprisingly, I think this might be too small for the US Market, but if the Smart car gets some traction, I suppose an argument could be made for offering it as a 'city' car.

    Corsa - As has already been mentioned, a new version is just being released, and GM is stating that the "next" iteration will be brought over to the US around 2010. Would compare with the Fit, Yaris, etc.

    Meriva - Small MPV - smaller than the Mazda 5. Might be able to compete with the likes of the Scion xB. Looks nice and is quite configurable, seating-wise.

    Tigra - Hardtop convertible, but looks to be a 2-seater. Probably not meant for Saturns' lineup, what with the Sky.

    Astra - Will be brought over as the ION replacement starting next fall. World class car; lets hope GM doesn't screw it up for the US market. Will be offered as a 3-door and a 5-door.

    Astra Twin Top - Another hardtop convertible, but this one has 4 seats. Might make life difficult for the VW Eos and Pontiac G6 Convertible, so bring it on!

    Zafira - An MPV that is larger than the Meriva, and available with 7 seats. This one would compete with the Mazda 5 quite nicely.

    Vectra - See Aura.

    Signum - See Malibu Maxx, but with way better styling, IMO.

    Monaro - Pontiac GTO; probably not for Saturn.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Maybe they are aiming the Verano at guys like me who like reasonably small cars but like nice touches as well. I'll let you know when it's time that I can see one.

    Actually I'll be laid up for quite a while so it may be a bit...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Maybe they are aiming the Verano at guys like me who like reasonably small cars but like nice touches as well. I'll let you know when it's time that I can see one.

    If anything, I think most manufacturers' are looking at MINI and discovering that there is a segment of the population that will pay a premium for a nice, well appointed, small car.

    Heck, Ford is selling $25K Foci and $21K Fiestas. The Cruze can be optioned up to about $25K as well.

    Makes sense for GM to position the Verano just above the Cruze and Focus - use a bigger, more powerful engine and include the luxury features that buyers are starting to demand.

    Now, if they were only to offer a 5-door hatch ....
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Astra Twin Top - Another hardtop convertible, but this one has 4 seats. Might make life difficult for the VW Eos and Pontiac G6 Convertible, so bring it on!

    Ouch! A Saturn I could have loved.....

    I like your ideas. Oh, well.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I think it's possible that the "younger" generation of buyers are looking more and more at Buick, so the Verano may get a look see.

    Yeah, they are now in their 50's instead of being in their 70's. I don't see the Verano being sporty enough to attract many young buyers. Granted I don't know how many GM expects to sell. The Regal is attracting young buyers, but they're offering killer lease deals to move them.

    Honestly, I prefer the looks of the Cruze, plus the Cruze can be had with a manual. Plus I don't want to drive a car with fake portholes stuck on the hood.

    I predict you'll be far more likely to see a little old lady piloting a Verano vs. a 30 something.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Astra Twin Top - Another hardtop convertible, but this one has 4 seats. Might make life difficult for the VW Eos and Pontiac G6 Convertible, so bring it on!

    Ouch! A Saturn I could have loved.....

    I like your ideas. Oh, well.


    fezo, here's the thing. Even though Saturn doesn't exist, GM could still bring these models over to the US and brand them as Chevrolet, Buick or Cadillac.

    Darn - just checked the Vauxhall site and the Astra Twin Top isn't offered now.

    GM needs to focus on a worldwide product strategy, a la Ford - same car in each market.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    To tell the truth I like the Cruse better myself. Besides - I'm 60. i wouldn't be doing Buick any favors demographically....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    Maybe they are aiming the Verano at guys like me who like reasonably small cars but like nice touches as well. I'll let you know when it's time that I can see one.

    If you like a small car with nice touches AND you MUST stay under 30K then the VW GTI is for you.

    I would say the Verano is competing with TSX and GTI. Now how much are they going to want with those Verano's and how much HP does the 2.4L have?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2011
    I would say the Verano is competing with TSX and GTI.

    TSX and GTI buyers don't know where the nearest Buick dealer is. Those are sporty cars, the Verano is being marketed (initially anyway) as a compact luxury car.

    I read through the intro on buick.com and the message that was repeated throughout is elegance, luxurious, responsiveness, and quietness. i.e. boring to a TSX/GTI type buyer.

    Maybe when the turbo 2.0 is available that will change. But it just doesn't look sporty enough to me to compete with a TSX or GTI/Jetta GLI. Though I don't think it will. That doesn't mean it will be a failure, those particular cars don't sell in high volumes either, besides the Jetta.

    Now how much are they going to want with those Verano's and how much HP does the 2.4L have?

    Not enough to compete with a turbo 2.0 Jetta/GTI, plus they offer a dual clutch trans and a manual. If GM does offer the Verano with the 2.0 turbo and a manual then it will compete just fine. The 2.4/auto will be substantially slower with it's est. 8 second 0-60. Though that will be more than fast enough for the people who'll actually buy it.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    I read through the intro on buick.com and the message that was repeated throughout is elegance, luxurious, responsiveness, and quietness. i.e. boring to a TSX/GTI type buyer.

    Agreed, but the TSX and GTI can also appeal to someone looking for an upscale interior and good quality (with that sportiness being a bonus). So unless the Verano crushes the TSX and GTI in terms of elegance, luxuriousness, and quietness, they have an uphill battle.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2011
    but the TSX and GTI can also appeal to someone looking for an upscale interior and good quality (with that sportiness being a bonus). So unless the Verano crushes the TSX and GTI in terms of elegance, luxuriousness, and quietness, they have an uphill battle

    Well, the TSX is quite a bit more expensive, as it starts over $30k, basically $6k more than the Buick. I believe the Verano should be able to take care of the nice interior and being quiet.

    The fuel economy is only 31 hwy. So what's the advantage over the LaCrosse CX other than being smaller and costing $3k less? The 2012 Lacrosse will have e-assist and like 38mpg hwy or something like that. I know that will bump the base price to $30k. I wonder why E-assist isn't on the Verano?

    Now I like the idea of using the diesel engine that's supposedly going into the Cruze. That's how you steal customers from VW/Audi.

    The Verano/Excelle has been selling well in China.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Uplander would ALWAYS choose the Cruze sibling of the Verano. Correct?

    Regards,
    OW
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