GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    Seems more and more manufacturers in different segments are making vehicle twins. Now in this case can the Honda driver say they have a car with "luxury" styling. Or should the Mercedes driver be upset that their vehicle looks like a "cheap" Accord, kind of how 5-series people were upset years ago with the "Bangel Butt", a la the Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge "cloud cars" having that same design years earlier?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,635
    I like it, although I would prefer the hyper AWD souped up Euro version.

    "the simple fact is that the Regal GS isn't quite potent and poised enough to tackle the Germans."

    Ummm....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It should have been AWD, even if it wasn't the full blown V6 european model.

    Can't even pretend to take on A4 without it, since Quattro is synonymous with Audi.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    edited August 2011
    Sorry, but the author nails it right out of the park. I'd also rather take the 500-pound weight savings, the lack of gas-guzzler tax, and the SAME torque number as the OPC. That 295 lb-ft or torque is more than my Mazda6 V6, and if the torque-steer is as non-existent as the author says it is...

    ...And this is from a person that drives in some of the worst winter weather in the U.S. (central NY). I'd rather slap on some winter tires on the Buick and do rings around the A4 owners with quattro and all-seasons.

    I also agree with the author that it's really not an A4 competitor (that's Cadillacs problem), but more the TSX. I've driven the TSX on more than a few occasions, and it's an outstanding handler with a nice interior. Despite the 300+ pounds the GS weighs over the TSX, if the author prefers the GS over that, IMO that's some very high praise indeed.

    Nicely done, GM.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I like it, although I would prefer the hyper AWD souped up Euro version.

    Yeah, that would be nice. They could offer both. The GS and then the super HiPo GSX.

    Anyway, I'm torn on AWD. A part of me doesn't want the the added weight and complexity and the other part of me appreciates the extra traction.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,635
    Or better yet, AWD and diesel, which exists on the home market model anyway.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm just guessing but I think the whole gas guzzler thing was hyperbole.

    Some Saabs with the 2.8T and AWD are nowhere near gas guzzler status.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Or better yet, AWD and diesel,

    Now you're talkin:)
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 14,034
    Bright idea.

    GM should buy Audi, they are having record sales year after year lately.

    Then they can take the A3 chassis, the S3 or TTS motor, the S4 7 speed DSG transmission, and put them all into one car and they'd hit a home run with me.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I'd rather slap on some winter tires on the Buick and do rings around the A4 owners with quattro and all-seasons.

    My driveway has enough pitch up that I'll take AWD w/Blizzaks. I've had days where that even wasn't good enough, meaning the car just slid on the ice, regardless of gearing, brakes, and emergency brakes. Most times AWD and Blizzaks are fine though. FWD w/snow tires would not be so good. So the Buick is a non-starter. I'll stay with my Mazdaspeed6, which gets low 20's mpg city, and high 20's on the hwy. The Regal is equal and/or inferior performance wise to a 6 year old Mazda. Maybe the materials are nicer or such, but that certainly is no reason for me to go spend many thousands on it.

    The Regal, the way it's priced should be closer to an Infiniti G37 AWD. That would be something worth considering. Buick should be targeted towards brands like Infiniti; giving equal performance and quality of materials for several thousand less.

    I see GM making decent cars, at a fairly high equal price to the competition. I don't see GM offering significantly superior vehicles, or at a much lower price. Nothing great; nothing unique.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Wasn't it GM who arranged for Saab to make a model - the 9-2X that was a rebadged Subaru Impreza? So if GM in its dreams had the money to buy Audi, what do you think the A3 would become? A rebadged Chevy Sonic? :cry:

    The Audi R8 would become a rebadged Corvette, since the Corvette's sales are down quite a bit from a few years ago?

    If anything GM should further reduce the number of brandfs and models it sells, and concentrate their $ and resources to make each remaining model better and redesign them on a shorter-cycle.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited September 2011
    My 330Xi was phenomenal in the traction department. That was the '06 system which not doubt improved much since then. So hard to slip in water or snow!

    AWD with winter rubber is the best option for traction optimization. The Yukon was great in the snow as well...no worries whatsoever when driven like it was designed. Many SUVers think they are in sports cars, however! ;)

    Regarding the Regal GS, it is overpriced as you stated. As predicted, GM will offer a great reason to stay or move to the competition. Value is NOT a GM strong point. Hasn't been for a long time.

    GS vs G37? No Contest. Also, note that a 2010 G37X can be had for far below a Regal GS. AWD and fantastic performance for less than a new Buick sounds like a great option, don't you think?

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Audi is part of VW. I'd doubt they'd have much success persuading VW to part with Audi.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2011
    Wasn't it GM who arranged for Saab to make a model - the 9-2X that was a rebadged Subaru Impreza?

    Yes, at one point GM owned 22% of FHI, the parent company of Subaru.

    They were hoping for synergies, but it was a dumb idea - think about it. AWD, boxer engines, longitudinal layout...not a single power train could be used by any GM model. Zero synergy. Subaru bought some parts using GM's purchasing system. That's about it.

    The Chevy Borrego was a 2 seat ute concept, a tiny pickup basically, based on the WRX. But GM didn't think they could price it competitively. It was not a Baja clone, either, it wasn't even a Crew Cab, and it was much sooner.

    image

    Plan B - Saab needed a small car so they gave them the 9-2x. It became a bargain, too, they had to discount it, so you could get one for about $19k, and it came with 2 years' free service to boot. It even looked good. But Saab wasn't in WRC, and Subaru already had a fan base established. It was a well kept secret, and a bargain.

    Saab was going to get a clone of the Tribeca as well, but GM sold their share of FHI before that could happen. The Saab-eca became the 2008 Tribeca re-fresh, identical tail lights and all.

    Subaru got a couple of models from GM in return. They sold a rebadged Opel Zafira in Japan (Subaru Traviq), but it never caught on. Then Subaru used GM distributors in India to sell a Chevy (yes, Chevy) Forester. Weird:

    http://www.globiz-motors.com/images/car/traviq.jpg

    image

    You can see why it just didn't work out. Like mixing oil and water.

    Toyota bought most (not all) of those shares, and now they're getting the Scion FR-S, which like the 9-2x is basically all Subaru underneath.

    Toyota also took over one assembly line at SIA, in Indiana, to build more Camrys. Ironically the new Outback is a smash hit and Subaru regrets giving up the space. Supply is short to this day.

    Subaru will soon offer an Impreza hybrid, and don't be shocked if an HSD logo appears on the side. WRX fans fret not, it will be a separate model entirely.

    That about sums up the GM-Subaru partnership and what's happened since, in a nutshell.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    edited September 2011
    'Retail deliveries were up 22 percent compared with the same month a year ago and accounted for 74 percent of GM sales. Deliveries to fleet customers increased 8 percent.'

    http://investor.gm.com/sales-production/
    2022 X3 M40i
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 14,034
    Audi is part of VW. I'd doubt they'd have much success persuading VW to part with Audi.

    So then GM and VW could merge as the "merger of equals!" LOL.

    Then they could point and say "look Toyota can't mess or come close to our sales numbers!" :P
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,635
    VW is pretty much the German national equivalent of GM, so that makes more sense than it might seem. Lots of similarities.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    VW could help the Buick division's upscale march, and GM could help VW cut costs even deeper.

    Before you knew it, they would trade places! :D
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 14,034
    I see your point, but VW's are known for good handling cars with good interiors.

    GM's are known for being cheap (along with high rebates), crude, and old-fashioned.

    I know I know, some will say their Buick's and Cadillacs are like Mercedes and Lexus.

    The Corvette is the BMW killer. :P
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    good interiors

    Not any more. Go sit in a base Jetta, you may be shocked.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,635
    VW wants to be a general generic car for everyone, like G(general)M. VW loves doing business in China, like GM, both like Mexico too. Base model other market VWs can be pretty crude and less than innovative, too, just like GM. VW has developed a liking to fleet deals, like GM. Both have been seen as national pride objects, and so on.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Too much overlap, perhaps?

    Both are too big, I just don't see a benefit to either side.

    Suzuki left GM, went to VW; now they're trying to leave VW.
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    The Corvette was no BMW killer in last weeks race. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,635
    Oh, I am just being facetious, but I do see VW as Germany's GM
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    The president of Ford, the governer of Michigan, GM's CEO and the mayor of Detroit all state there are more engineers in Detroit than on 128 in Ma or Silicon Valley.
    Yup, and probably all unemployed. Detroit will never be Motor City again or will it?Ford cheapened Volvo, GM destoyed Saab and the Astra.
    VOA is the third lagest car maker in the world.No way in hades would they make a deal with GM. These engineers we have here are the problem.Buick I'll admit the Regal and La Cro-
    sse are great cars,but lets wait and see.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 14,034
    edited September 2011
    You are right about GM destroying Saab. I thought they were cool based on past (probably pre-GM) experiences where I was a passenger in one a long time ago.

    When I compared the 9-3 while I was cross-shopping it to the A3 (in 2006) I actually eventually ended up buying, I remember thinking now why in the world would I want this instead of the A3. There wasn't one single redeeming quality about it when compared to the Audi, and they basically cost the same. I can't think anyone in their right mind would have bought the 2.0T from GM/Saab over the VW/Audi 2.0T.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    edited September 2011
    Sounds like a plan to me.
    However, these guys in Detroit are like the politicians inside the beltway.
    How ever I think Acura is a good example of shooting oneself in the foot.They did away with the Integra, RSX and Type S all entry level cars into an Acura.Please don't try to sell me on the TSX it's an old lady's family car. So I had to jump to BMW 328i and to be honest the beemer isn't as bullet proof as the Integra.But, the bells and whistles are great.(mini has it together.) German engineering.nuff said.
    Now try and find a 20k small car w/o dandruff black seats or gray that get dirty fast and six speed, moonroof,heated seats lumbar support etc.Focus , Hyundai and Cruise are all starting 48 hour shifts, or saturday as a work day to get their small cars out.
    This fall and next spring will be do or die for some automakers in this economy.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    You are right about GM destroying Saab

    I think Saab was going regardless of GM. Quirky, very small volume cars with mediocre quality manufactured in a very high cost country. Honestly, GM stupidly investing in them probably bought them a bit more time.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Isn't Volvo now owned by somebody in India? I believe Tata now owns Jaguar. It must irk the British some that their former colony now owns one of their premier automakers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I do see VW as Germany's GM

    I actually agree, but I still think that means 2 very different things.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It must irk the British some that their former colony now owns one of their premier automakers

    I have more than a few friends from India who find that incredibly amusing. They pretty much smile all the time now. :D

    And they seem to be taking care of Volvo and Jaguar better than anyone has for Saab, that's for sure.

    GM saved Saab, then let it go stale. They took all the character out of them. Quirky turbo hatchbacks gave way to nice but still mainstream Epsilon sedans. They took away all the Saab-ness.

    I guess it's a Saab story. Oh, that's a bad pun...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,635
    But to be fair, the Indian ownership hasn't had control long enough to really put Jag on any kind of new direction - current new models were developed before Tata, and I think Volvo is controlled by Geely - neither of which as companies or nations have any record of automotive innovation. Come back in 5-10 years to see what the new overlords have done.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They have the deep pockets to keep the companies operating.

    Saab has collectors knocking on the door and checks bouncing. They're so doomed it's not even funny.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Party's over, xlu:

    Camry: 30,185
    Altima: 23,016
    Sonata: 20,682
    Accord: 18,439
    Fusion: 17,925
    Malibu: 17,840
    Optima: 6,157
    Legacy: 3,271
    Passat: 314

    I'm surprised the Optima isn't doing even better. It has more incentives on it than the Sonata does. I guess Hyundai has a lot more dealerships?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Looks nice:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/02/chevrolet-colorado-successor-spied-almost-com- pletely-camo-free/

    Check out the Camaro tail lights. I like the upswept rear window, too.

    2.8l turbo diesel, bring it here just like that, no changes...
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Camaro tail lights? No Camaro tail lights, and its ugly.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Back in '08 I did find that car,(and more) VW Jetta Wolfsburg Edition. New Jetta, no thanks.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,023
    Man, I can see why there's talk of VW taking over GM...look at those Passat sales!

    The Malibu has done remarkably well considering it is on its fourth year with no changes...unlike the Fusion which was freshened in '10. I do believe at least a little has to do with the fact that it's out that the Fusion is built in Mexico. By all accounts it's a great car, but in this economy, and with tensions high on the immigration thing....that's what kept me from buying an HHR instead of a Cobalt. Nothing to do with quality.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,105
    Check out the Camaro tail lights. I like the upswept rear window, too.


    Not bad, but looks closer to '56 Dodge taillights to me, at least in profile. That upswept quarter window makes me think of a Toyota.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,635
    The Indians and Chinese would be well advised to stay the course, and don't try to change offerings for markets or segments they might not fully grasp. I can't see how it could really be an outlet for pride, more or less buying someone elses unprofitable rejects.

    Saab has been dead for years.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,023
    Looks nice

    Geez, no wonder you like it, it reminds me of a Toyota! :)

    Although as pro-GM as I try to be, I can't defend the styling of the Colorado.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • carstrykecarstryke Member Posts: 168
    I'm not.....The Optima is butt ugly and i am surprised it is ahead of the legacy......just proof that there are more poor people in this country of our's more than ever.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited September 2011
    The new Georgia capacity just came on line for the Optima. Should boost sales going forward.

    Support Georgia jobs and buy an Optima. :shades:

    BTW, Kia sales up 25.9% YoY Aug....leads the industry for growth.

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,023
    While Georgia is better than Korea, I'd much rather support a plant in the north or midwest where workers are still beaten up for the sins of decades ago. You know what they say about reality lagging perception by twenty years.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Well, my reality was a 2003 Yukon. Hardly lagging.

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,023
    Well, going on a decade. Again, would you not have bought a '65 Mustang because of your '56 Ford?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,023
    Would you stay away from a restaurant you had liked for nine years, because you had bad service once? (I can appreciate that a car costs more than a meal.)

    For me, I usually don't buy used. I did buy my daughter a two-year old PT Cruiser for $6,930 with 45K miles, due to price. I've put some money into it...things that probably would have been warranty had I owned it new but as a rental nobody gave a damn. Nothing earth-shattering.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Nine years, no, first time, NEVER go back!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited September 2011
    I DID NOT buy a 2010 GMC Yukon because of my 2003 Yukon.
    I bought a 2010 Mazda CX-9 instead. :shades:

    Perhaps a few million other stories like mine between the 7 years?

    2003 GM Market Share = 29.1%
    2010 GM Market Share = 19.7%

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,023
    If you had issues with your Mazda, would you 'fess up?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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