Many of things you are listing as excluded from the GM powertrain warranty, such as sensors (although that is a generic term) and fuel injectors, powertrain control module, etc., are part of the separate GM standard emissions warranty, which is either 7/70 or 8/80, can't recall and never had an issue like that.
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I always thought it was good that they consider wheel bearings part of the powertrain warranty.
Not according to Chevy's warranty site.
Exclusions: Excluded from the powertrain coverage are all wheel bearings, drive wheel front and rear hub bearings, locking hubs, drive system cooling, lines, hoses, radiator, sensors, wiring and electrical connectors related to drive systems as well as any drive system control module and/or module programming.
I looked at my '11 Malibu's warranty booklet, and it matches what you wrote. I looked at my '08 Cobalt's warranty booklet, and it includes under "what is covered--drive systems", "wheel bearings, locking hubs, front and rear hub bearings, seals and gaskets. " So the warranty did appear to change in those model years.
For an apples to apples comparison, does Hyundai's 100K or Ford's 60K warranty cover wheel bearings?
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looks like hyundai would cover a wheel bearing under the base 5/60k, but I'm not positive.
Ford's warranty says bearings are covered under the extended powertrain to 60k, but it doesn't say wheel bearings or hubs. It just says bearings. So who knows.
When you say that Hyundai Kia are growing much faster than GM, are you basing that on fact?
Are you comparing GM in China to Kia in the US, or are you comparing GM in the US to Kia in S. Korea? I hope your not comparing GM in just the US to something.
Also, are you comparing rates of growth? For instance, the splitting of a cell in two is 100% growth in a few seconds. A new cell added to my body is not measurable as a growth rate. GM is $155 billion in sales just in the US.
How does the number of jobs added to GM worldwide compare to Hyundai worldwide over the last year?
In the US, 75-80% do not choose GM. In the US, 95-96% do not choose Hyundai. In batting average, Hyundai is hitting forty. About like: lucky to have one hit in a seven game series.
Outselling Hyundai in light trucks 12:1 100 days truck inventory when we are 178 selling days into the year? That would be 484,000 GM light trucks on dealer lots. About 10,000 per state. 62 per county in my avg state. Avg because we have 1/50 of the US population.
Not sure if 62 is a good selection for a county. 32 Sierras and 32 Silverados. Maybe 2-3 of each model. Reg cab, ext cab, club cab, v6, 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, diesel, 2wd, 4wd, long bed, short bed, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton/ 1 ton. Then comes color and leather, hybrid, towing, etc. Maybe it takes 5 counties worth of trucks to get my color. If they had only 50 days inventory, it would take 10 counties? Maybe they are prepared in case a tornado hits the Ft. Wayne truck plant? Maybe it's just that lousy $156 billion a year in sales.
I always thought it was good that they consider wheel bearings part of the powertrain warranty. It's transferable to the next owner, too.
....yet somehow the electronics like the engine control module that regulates the running of the engine is not covered? Seems not so comprehensive to me....
I guess wheel bearings are cheap and ECMs are expensive.
For me, the next owner would be the person who inherits the car after I pass on. My Cadillac DTS Performance is turning out to be another "lifetime" car for me like my 1989 Brougham! Only theft or a catastrophic accident will make us part.
Rather odd, because I've seen more angry owners of other pre-bankruptcy GM vehicles than the Impala. Want to see some carnage? Head to the Grand Am and Ion discussions. I haven't seen an owner in ages talk about how happy they are to own these vehicles.
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The 4 banger engine is from Austria, Cruze, that is..............Somewhere in Michigan I believe a plant is being built to produce it under the careful eye and skill of the UAW...
Well, the dead-newest Grand Am is a 2005, and most I see look like they are on their third or fourth owner. So that's not exactly a surprise to me. The Ion, who knows. I know I couldn't stand the center instrument panel.
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This has been discussed here already. I interpret the story to mean that "New GM" will follow the letter of the "Old GM" warranty. The woman who started this apparently didn't fall into having a problem with her car while under warranty. GM claims the parts are also different in the police versions versus regular versions. The suit was claiming money for all owners of those Impalas even post-warranty. I know that I had warranty work done on 2005 and 2008 GM cars by "New GM" and not an eyelash was batted at the dealership...done quickly and satisfactorily. I don't have the remotest concern about this on my 2008 (2005 traded in on a new 2011 GM).
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I could easily have named most any other Saturn or Pontiac model - I just chose those two as stand-outs. Many of the complaints I'm seeing are from original owners - we're not talking about little niggly problems here & there. We're talking about owners who are regularly unable to start their vehicles (a problem which is a mystery to GM techs, who just throw parts at the problem) or have experienced catastrophic major-parts failures.
My point is that, while there's still some "goodwill" fixing of current GM line products out of warranty, but with problems that should not be happening, owners of out-of-production models definitely feel abandoned.
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GM couldn't create as much undeserved hype as Toyota if it offered to give away gold coins on introduction day. The blandbox even makes it into this thread. Whoever handles their promotional activities is earning their pay.
Don't look at me - I actually attended a Malibu intro event back around '04 or so.
Crickets were chirping, it was so empty.
Though, to be honest, it was actually loads of fun - no lines. I basically got personal autocross lessons in an Accord, Camry, Sonata, and a Malibu Maxx. I must've worn some of those tires down 'til they were bald! LOL
I was going to go to that GM event that tours the country this summer but turns out I was out of town, so I missed it. An Edmunds buddy of mine went (RSHolland).
From what I hear they are well attended. If the lines aren't too long, events like that are loads of fun.
New Camry? Uh, what's that? I'm too busy watching the World Series of Grass Growing
Holy CHRYSLER, was I wrong! I just saw some pics of the new Camry, and I'm in love! I think I'm gonna see how much the local dealer will give me in trade for my Park Ave, take out a third mortgage on the house to cover the rest, and I'll be in automotive shangri-la! :P
Seriously though, judging from the pics, I gotta admit I like it better than I thought I would. It seems like they took the outgoing model and made the corners and edges more crisp and angular. And they finally straightened out the badging on the rear, so it reads straight across, rather than slightly angled!
It looks like they squared it up a bit like a Fusion and added a Subaru grille. A piece seems to be missing from the taillamps. I wonder, if for a bit extra, you can order reflector pieces to complete the looks of the taillamps ala a 1960 Ford?
Seriously though, judging from the pics, I gotta admit I like it better than I thought I would.
Yeah, it likely will keep the Camry faithful satisfied. Nothing ground breaking, but I'm sure it will be a very competent if not exciting family sedan. Though the v6 model no doubt will continue to be the hotrod of the segment.
I'm mixed on the exterior, really doesn't excite, but I don't find it butt ugly either. The interior appears to be tastefully upgraded, though pics make it tough to tell the quality of materials etc.
Speaking of Camrys, anybody besides me ever notice how on Camrys you're driving behind, it looks like Wally's Filling Station put the exhaust on? They are almost always nearly dragging on the ground.
I notice this, and burned-out parking lights in the front of early 2000 Chevy trucks, more than any other goofy car thing on the road.
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Speaking of Camrys, anybody besides me ever notice how on Camrys you're driving behind, it looks like Wally's Filling Station put the exhaust on? They are almost always nearly dragging on the ground.
Yes, and I think it looks really tacky. Kind of like a poop chute.
Speaking of Camrys, anybody besides me ever notice how on Camrys you're driving behind, it looks like Wally's Filling Station put the exhaust on? They are almost always nearly dragging on the ground.
I notice this, and burned-out parking lights in the front of early 2000 Chevy trucks, more than any other goofy car thing on the road.
I've noticed the drooping exhaust the Camry/ES since the 90's. Maybe they've remedied that issue for 2012.
The burnedout DRL's on GM trucks are still going on. I couldn't get them to last over 3 months in my Suburban. Not a huge deal, but a PITA none the less.
it looks like Wally's Filling Station put the exhaust on?
lol
The exhaust pipe is definitely poorly routed, just waiting to be knocked off by a protruding manhole cover. I think they fixed that with the current model but I'm not entirely sure...
I like the Camry redesign, even if I am not the intended customer. However, the V6 model is one of the fastest cars in its class and the SE model with the tightened suspension is supposedly quite tossable. I prefer the 6 or the Accord myself but the SE Camry has my respect. :shades:
The Camry SE V6 has even caught my eye, with the TRD racing development feautures like a spoiler and high quality 18" alloy wheels.
Does anyone have slalom numbers on the SE version vs. Regular Camry's that you can normally drive over railroad tracks with a wine glass on the hood not falling over or shaking at 60 MPH :P
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That was strange, older Camrys seemed to have a dip in the exhaust right where you would expect a rear axle to go, yet no AWD was offered. Strange.
I don't think the more recent ones have had that issue.
I'm happy that the blunt nose is gone, for once fintail and I agree.
The new one is cleaner. They sent it to get some creases, and fixed the nose. The SE actually looks good (for the segment, and yes I realize that ain't saying much):
Depends, SE didn't mean much in the past, but recently the SE packages have actually made significant improvements vs. the LE/XLE trims, at least on the Sienna. In other words, not just cosmetic, but also suspensions and steering upgrades.
If you look at minivan comparos, the SE always seems to win, while other models tested always seem to lose.
That was strange, older Camrys seemed to have a dip in the exhaust right where you would expect a rear axle to go, yet no AWD was offered. Strange.
Doesn't the Toyota Highlander use the same platform at the Camry? If so that would explain it. I recall seeing the same low exhaust on the early Highlanders too. Don't know about the current model though.
>Doesn't the Toyota Highlander use the same platform at the Camry? If so that would explain it. I recall seeing the same low exhaust on the early Highlanders too.
I read that toyota was very good at reusing existing parts. That avoided the cost of designing, sourcing different part numbers. Another cost savings beyond the $4000 per unit offered by the undervalued Yen in the early days.
That multiple use of similar parts was a goal GM wasn't as good at effecting in the past. But it's a great cost-saving measure.
I recall when the Avalon came out with the redesigned model based on the previous gen Camry chassis, I was told by one very indignant person in a toyota discussion that there wasn't a single part in come between the Avalon and Camry. I started checking Rockauto for parts numbers and there were many parts that weren't appearance items that were the same.
Comments
I always thought it was good that they consider wheel bearings part of the powertrain warranty. It's transferable to the next owner, too.
Not according to Chevy's warranty site.
Exclusions: Excluded from the powertrain coverage are all wheel bearings, drive wheel front and rear hub bearings, locking hubs, drive system cooling, lines, hoses, radiator, sensors, wiring and electrical connectors related to drive systems as well as any drive system control module and/or module programming.
For an apples to apples comparison, does Hyundai's 100K or Ford's 60K warranty cover wheel bearings?
Ford's warranty says bearings are covered under the extended powertrain to 60k, but it doesn't say wheel bearings or hubs. It just says bearings. So who knows.
Regards,
OW
Are you comparing GM in China to Kia in the US, or are you comparing GM in the US to Kia in S. Korea? I hope your not comparing GM in just the US to something.
Also, are you comparing rates of growth? For instance, the splitting of a cell in two is 100% growth in a few seconds. A new cell added to my body is not measurable as a growth rate. GM is $155 billion in sales just in the US.
How does the number of jobs added to GM worldwide compare to Hyundai worldwide over the last year?
In the US, 75-80% do not choose GM. In the US, 95-96% do not choose Hyundai. In batting average, Hyundai is hitting forty. About like: lucky to have one hit in a seven game series.
100 days truck inventory when we are 178 selling days into the year? That would be 484,000 GM light trucks on dealer lots. About 10,000 per state. 62 per county in my avg state. Avg because we have 1/50 of the US population.
Not sure if 62 is a good selection for a county. 32 Sierras and 32 Silverados. Maybe 2-3 of each model. Reg cab, ext cab, club cab, v6, 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, diesel, 2wd, 4wd, long bed, short bed, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton/ 1 ton. Then comes color and leather, hybrid, towing, etc. Maybe it takes 5 counties worth of trucks to get my color. If they had only 50 days inventory, it would take 10 counties? Maybe they are prepared in case a tornado hits the Ft. Wayne truck plant? Maybe it's just that lousy $156 billion a year in sales.
Haven't really followed the union politics in Korea, and to be honest it's not on my reading list.
I feel like I'm in the minority but I was very much pro-bailout for GM and Chrysler.
YES. Fact. US Market Share.
GM 2008 Market Share = 22.4% Hyundai/Kia 2008 Market Share = 5.1%
GM 2011 YTD June Market Share = 20.0% Hyundai/Kia June YTD MS = 9%
Read it and weep.
Regards,
OW
....yet somehow the electronics like the engine control module that regulates the running of the engine is not covered? Seems not so comprehensive to me....
I guess wheel bearings are cheap and ECMs are expensive.
Why single out the Impala, wouldn't other pre Government Motors vehicles also see the same rejections?
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T-minus 1hr:23min until the unveiling. I sure can't wait;)
Ooh, I know I'm all hot and bothered about it! Bet it's even more exciting than the box that the 2011 Camry came in! :P
Oh, I can...
You might want to post up the link in the midsize sedans thread, and you might get a few interested there. I emphasize the word MIGHT.
You still MIGHT find a few interested in that forum... :P
I'm sure they're already waiting for the webcast;)
New models should have Entune, right?
Why is this even mentioned in a GM thread? I doubt the Malibu launch created any more excitement, it doesn't need to.
My point is that, while there's still some "goodwill" fixing of current GM line products out of warranty, but with problems that should not be happening, owners of out-of-production models definitely feel abandoned.
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Crickets were chirping, it was so empty.
Though, to be honest, it was actually loads of fun - no lines. I basically got personal autocross lessons in an Accord, Camry, Sonata, and a Malibu Maxx. I must've worn some of those tires down 'til they were bald! LOL
I was going to go to that GM event that tours the country this summer but turns out I was out of town, so I missed it. An Edmunds buddy of mine went (RSHolland).
From what I hear they are well attended. If the lines aren't too long, events like that are loads of fun.
GM should advertise such events more, and maybe have them in more locations, can't say I have ever heard of one in the PNW.
Holy CHRYSLER, was I wrong! I just saw some pics of the new Camry, and I'm in love! I think I'm gonna see how much the local dealer will give me in trade for my Park Ave, take out a third mortgage on the house to cover the rest, and I'll be in automotive shangri-la! :P
Seriously though, judging from the pics, I gotta admit I like it better than I thought I would. It seems like they took the outgoing model and made the corners and edges more crisp and angular. And they finally straightened out the badging on the rear, so it reads straight across, rather than slightly angled!
The only bummer is they're pretty much all slush boxes.
Exception: Mazda's Zoom Zoom live event had manual Miatas and RX8s. Soooo fun! Too bad the lines were insane.
Yeah, it likely will keep the Camry faithful satisfied. Nothing ground breaking, but I'm sure it will be a very competent if not exciting family sedan. Though the v6 model no doubt will continue to be the hotrod of the segment.
I'm mixed on the exterior, really doesn't excite, but I don't find it butt ugly either. The interior appears to be tastefully upgraded, though pics make it tough to tell the quality of materials etc.
Should be in local fleets by maybe Halloween.
Nope, that's the Mazda6.
I notice this, and burned-out parking lights in the front of early 2000 Chevy trucks, more than any other goofy car thing on the road.
Yes, and I think it looks really tacky. Kind of like a poop chute.
I notice this, and burned-out parking lights in the front of early 2000 Chevy trucks, more than any other goofy car thing on the road.
I've noticed the drooping exhaust the Camry/ES since the 90's. Maybe they've remedied that issue for 2012.
The burnedout DRL's on GM trucks are still going on. I couldn't get them to last over 3 months in my Suburban. Not a huge deal, but a PITA none the less.
lol
The exhaust pipe is definitely poorly routed, just waiting to be knocked off by a protruding manhole cover. I think they fixed that with the current model but I'm not entirely sure...
I like the Camry redesign, even if I am not the intended customer. However, the V6 model is one of the fastest cars in its class and the SE model with the tightened suspension is supposedly quite tossable. I prefer the 6 or the Accord myself but the SE Camry has my respect. :shades:
Okay, they are very close in the low 6 second range, but considering no one seems to buy the 6 anymore, I forgot about it:(
Does anyone have slalom numbers on the SE version vs. Regular Camry's that you can normally drive over railroad tracks with a wine glass on the hood not falling over or shaking at 60 MPH :P
I don't think the more recent ones have had that issue.
I'm happy that the blunt nose is gone, for once fintail and I agree.
The new one is cleaner. They sent it to get some creases, and fixed the nose. The SE actually looks good (for the segment, and yes I realize that ain't saying much):
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/23/2012-toyota-camry-first-drive-review/
Subtle but safe evolution, no surprise.
If you look at minivan comparos, the SE always seems to win, while other models tested always seem to lose.
Doesn't the Toyota Highlander use the same platform at the Camry? If so that would explain it. I recall seeing the same low exhaust on the early Highlanders too. Don't know about the current model though.
I read that toyota was very good at reusing existing parts. That avoided the cost of designing, sourcing different part numbers. Another cost savings beyond the $4000 per unit offered by the undervalued Yen in the early days.
That multiple use of similar parts was a goal GM wasn't as good at effecting in the past. But it's a great cost-saving measure.
I recall when the Avalon came out with the redesigned model based on the previous gen Camry chassis, I was told by one very indignant person in a toyota discussion that there wasn't a single part in come between the Avalon and Camry. I started checking Rockauto for parts numbers and there were many parts that weren't appearance items that were the same.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,