GM News, New Models and Market Share

uplanderguy

I gotta say, I'm underwhelmed with the styling. I much-prefer the current iteration's styling (OK, except the taillights!).

I know folks say the Malibu lacks room inside, but I'm a short guy (5'8") and I think the back seat is very roomy, leg-wise. I even think the rear doors look long a la VW Phaeton, etc. That look is gone with the new Malibu. I showed my wife (who loves the look of her '11 Malibu) and her first reaction was, "It looks 'snoutier' than ours". I'd agree.

ateixeira

I think it looks good inside and out.

As we talked about above, though, what's with the weak-sauce made-in-Chinda eAssist instead of a real hybrid? And why don't base models match the Camry/Sonata for class leading MPG?

I'd like to see them build competence in to the base models, and quit with the thinking that says "we have to build them cheap enough for fleets".

andre1969

Then again, they put the Charger name on a sedan and it worked.

I think Charger was a good name for the new car, even if it was a 4-door. Looking back, Dodge just didn't have a lot of exciting names for their mid/full-sized cars to choose from. Most of them...Dynasty, Diplomat, St. Regis, Monaco (Royal or otherwise), Coronet, have sort of a pretentious, frumpy sound about them. That was proper for the 1970's and even part of the 1980's, but that pseudo-luxury really doesn't sell anymore.

Then there's Polara, which just has a cold-war ring to it. I always thought Matador was a cool name, but at Dodge it was a one-year only affair, and nowadays probably associated more with AMC.

ateixeira

Intrepid would not have worked, either, given people think cab-forward and FWD when they hear that name.

andre1969

Intrepid would not have worked, either, given people think cab-forward and FWD when they hear that name.

LOL, I had totally forgotten about Intrepid! A bit embarrassing, considering I owned one for 10 years!

But yeah, I don't think it would have worked. The Intrepid was a sleek, futuristic design, but also a bit of a dead end, style-wise. It really couldn't be advanced, as you can only make a windshield so rakish, or a hood so low, before the car becomes impractical. But the Charger is more of a bulky, muscular, retro throwback to a time when Detroit ruled the auto industry, and the name really fits with the style.

dieselone

I always thought the Saturn sales model was good. Value pricing, with no haggling. Come in lower than competitors, then stick to your guns and hold off on incentives.

It was a good idea doomed by not having support by all of GM management, plus I don't think the UAW was fully on board either. IMO, if not for GM's management infighting over the Saturn brand the UAW issue likely could have been overcome and Saturn could have been successful. As it was, Saturn really didn't have chance.

fintail

Not just imported cars, but imported everything, especially from our "most favored" partner who we have aided and abetted so much. Free trade and fair trade are polar opposites in the real world.

fintail

Once Versailles was signed, WW2 was imminent.

And indeed, the weapons of WW3 are what prevent the actual war from occurring. It certainly isn't our policeman of the world/funder of belligerent states ideals which are more like defacto subsidies for well connected industries.

I like the pay for defense idea, we should be demanding that from both Europe and Asia. Foot the bill, or we leave and you can do it yourself, good luck with that. The socialized paradises and welfare recipient industries they have created (France and Korea especially come to mind) will be on their knees.

Time to work towards a level playing field, then merit can really be judged.

tlong

The Cruze absolutely, positively leads in MPG. Why is that not mentioned here?

He posted that the Cruze does not lead this market. MPG is only one aspect. Cruze's performance in that area is impressive, but it's the overall leadership (all qualities rolled up to the total package) where GM should aim to lead. And the Cruze is a great effort, it's just not all the way there yet.

robbieg

Agree completely. Even worse when you consider out the door pricing. A Honda Pilot Touring is a screaming deal compared with the GMC Acadia. It may be a dirty little secret but Honda Dealers offer great deals on Pilots. I think the Traverse should be priced less than a Pilot, Acadia the same and the Buick a little more. Right now they are all price higher than the Pilot.

People try to make the argument that the Acadia doesn't compete with the Pilot so it is is okay to price it higher. Doesn't work with me.

tlong

We do, but keep in mind everything they sell is made in China, pretty much.

To build the best product in each segment and then build it in the USA might just be cost prohibitive. Sad, but true.

I don't think that's a valid argument in this case, as the competitors' better products are mostly made here, too.

ateixeira

I don't get the Most Favored part one bit. Ridiculous.

ateixeira

The socialized paradises and welfare recipient industries they have created (France and Korea especially come to mind) will be on their knees.

Korea can pay with super-valued Hyundai stock.

ateixeira

competitors' better products are mostly made here, too

Which ones?

The only Made in America gift I could find this season was a leaf rake! Even then the wood handle came from Brazil.

fintail

Cheap goods keep corporate profits flowing and keep the masses satiated (aka not rioting on the streets and stringing up political and corporate leaders). It's no coincidence.

For the H stock, I wonder how it would be valued if the home country hadn't been able to coddle...eventually Hyunkia North America might become the leader :shades:

tlong

competitors' better products are mostly made here, too

Which ones?

The only Made in America gift I could find this season was a leaf rake! Even then the wood handle came from Brazil.

The original comment was that GM may not be able to be cost-effective and build a class-leading compact car here. My comment was pointing out that there are other compact cars which rate better (at least in Motor Trend's comparo, for example) that are made here, too (Civic, Focus). So either GM can do even better, or they have a cost problem.

andre1969

The only Made in America gift I could find this season was a leaf rake! Even then the wood handle came from Brazil.

My '79 5th Ave started leaking fuel the other day. Fortunately it was just the rubber fuel hose that runs from the metal line to the filter. I was shocked as hell, when I bought the hose, to discover it was made in the United States!

Alas, my purchase was a whopping $3.57, so that's not going to do much to spark the economy...

uplanderguy

Intrepid would not have worked, either, given people think cab-forward and FWD when they hear that name.

I thought the original Intrepid looked great when it came out...by far the best-looking family sedan IMHO at the time. And I liked the ubiquitous dark green-blue on them too.

I never liked the name though. As a smart-a**, I always referred to them as "Dodge Decrepit".

andre1969

I never liked the name though. As a smart-a**, I always referred to them as "Dodge Decrepit".

That's okay...I used to call it the "Dodge Insipid"! :P I remember seeing a 1994 or so ES model in the showroom and really getting hit with sticker shock. Who ever would've thought...$25,000 for a Dodge!

ateixeira

I think the Cruze is indeed a solid entry in its segment, arguably better than the plasticky new Civic and the dated Corolla (to be fair, due for replacement soon).

Why not make the 1.4T engine standard? More torque, better MPG, helps CAFE numbers, makes for happier customers in the long-term. Bring the 5 door and diesel soon, too.

Also, don't just sit on the sidelines for 6-7 years and coast on fleet sales, let's see small improvements as we go along, a refresh in 3 years, a new one in 5.

uplanderguy

Who ever would've thought...$25,000 for a Dodge!

Two similar stories...Ol' Virgil, a thirty-plus year salesman at our small-town Chevy dealer, upon showing me (kid) the first new '70 Caprice they got in: "$5,000 for a Chevy...geez!".

And only nine years later, when we were looking at a new '79 Caprice Classic Landau loaded to the gills at the same dealer, my Dad said, "A $10,000 Chevy...who'da thunk that?"

tlong

Also, don't just sit on the sidelines for 6-7 years and coast on fleet sales, let's see small improvements as we go along, a refresh in 3 years, a new one in 5.

The thing is, GM has a mega-$billion war chest right now due to the bailouts. So this is the time that they can change their practices and put some more quality into the products. A window of opportunity. There is nothing preventing them from moving to class-leading except their willpower and abilities.

ateixeira

The 1.4T's block is still cast iron, they could save weight going with lighter materials. Same for the Volt and Sonic.

The Sonic is funny in that it's the only car I can think of with forged rims but a cast iron block. Strange.

circlew

The Cruze absolutely, positively leads in MPG. Why is that not mentioned here?

Not according to this poster:

I was going to mention the abysmal fuel economy I’ve experienced in the Cruze. On a recent 230 mile trip (2011 Cruze LT 1.8 w/ 13k miles), all but 7 miles were highway, I got 26.3 mpg. I wasn’t exactly flooring, either. Just using the cruise control and staying with traffic on an open highway. 52 miles of the drive are nearly flat, too.

Other vehicles I’ve driven on the exact same route:

2011 Dodge Charger V6/5AT: 30.3 mpg
2012 Chrysler 200 V6: 32.1 mpg
2011 Kia Optima LX: 34.4 mpg
2011 Chevrolet HHR 1LT (2.2L/4AT): 24.7 mpg
2012 Chevrolet Impala LT (3.6/6AT): 29.7 mpg

Actually, Quentin, you may have made the drive before. I-79 from Morgantown to Charleston, then I-64 to the Huntington Tri-State Airport.

Regards,
OW

ateixeira

You need a bigger sample than "1" to have any real significance.

Lemme check ...

ateixeira

Per the EPA's site, the manual ECO has gotten 35 to 49mpg, with an average at an impressive 42.8mpg.

The auto is behind a bit, but still good, with 33 to 37, average at 34.8 mpg.

That's a sample size 16 times more meaningful.

Elantra is about dead even, with the manual at 43.0mpg (with a sample size of only 1), and the auto at 30.4 (with a larger sample).

In a weighted average, the Eco actually beats it by a healthy margin.

Fact is, both of these are very efficient.

ateixeira

Whoops ...

2011 Cruze LT 1.8

That's the bigger, non-turbo base engine.

Told ya they should ditch it. Imagine the same guy bragging about averaging 42.8mpg with his quicker, more torquey turbo motor.

Per the EPA's site, the 1.8l auto averages 30.7mpg with a small sample of 2, and the manual is averaging 31.3 with a small sample of 3.

So that guy is skewing towards worst mileage reported.

uplanderguy

Thanks for posting your very logical comments to offset Mr. "Doom 'n Gloom"!

P.S. Note that I didn't post anything about the Sonata's four recalls on a Hyundai site.

circlew

Here's some additional "Doom and Gloom" for all!

Steve Rattner, the car czar that oversaw the federally funded bailouts of General Motors and Chrysler , said on Thursday that he didn’t think President Obama’s Auto Task Force was tough enough on the automakers’ stakeholders, particularly the United Auto Workers union.

Rattner led the United States’ $82 billion bailout of GM and Chrysler , but the former Wall Street executive was critical of Obama’s handling of the companies’ stakeholders on Thursday. Rattner called the overall project a “success”, but added the Auto Task Force should have pushed for UAW pay cuts.

“We asked all the stakeholders to make very significant sacrifices,” Rattner said. “We should have asked the UAW to do a bit more. We did not ask any UAW member to take a cut in their pay.”

Rattner also conceded that the U.S. government overpaid for the bailout of GM.

“We put more cash into GM than we probably needed to — and we knew this.” He added: “It’s part of why GM is so well-capitalized today.”

U.S. taxpayers would lose about $16.5 billion if the government sold its remaining shares of GM today.

Regards,
OW

uplanderguy

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

dieselone

I was shocked as hell, when I bought the hose, to discover it was made in the United States!

Maybe that hose had been sitting in a parts bin for 30 years?;)

A few months ago I bought an air filter for the Expedition from Walmart of all places and it has "made in USA" printed on the filter.

circlew

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ......

USATODAY article....don't wake up...it's not worth your time, as GM continues playing catch-up! :shades:

2013 Malibu gives Chevy stronger midsize contender

Regards,
OW

ateixeira

I wish they didn't focus on the mild hybrid and instead simply had the base DI and 2l turbo engines ready at the launch.

Why is GM so stubborn about this eAssist? It's never sold well in the past.

It's like aiming for 2nd best. Even if you win, you still lose.

dieselone

I wish they didn't focus on the mild hybrid and instead simply had the base DI and 2l turbo engines ready at the launch.

Well I guess in pushing the launch up by 6 mos. the powertrain department isn't going to be ready.

I'm with you on eAssist, I don't have much interest in it either. Maybe the updated eAssist system is better.

uplanderguy

James Healey reviewed the '08 Malibu in a similar fashion. He's not a GM guy. That's OK. Even a Ford buff coworker had commented that his reviews used to be mostly about how many and where the cupholders were. We referred to him as "Mr. Cupholder". I emailed him after his lukewarm '08 Malibu review (so different from other reviewers) and he did reply and showed a good sense of humor and said he laughed about the "Mr. Cupholder" review.

Note above, where I posted earlier that I didn't care much for the styling of the new Malibu.

Not everyone needs class-leading. I like styling, comfort, price, economy, a good warranty, a dealer I like and a Service Department I trust, and built by an American corporation in an American plant. Hey, the Malibu is even built by midwesterners, not just by deep-southerners like so many of the imports made here are.

ateixeira

Yeah, but the Equinox already has that engine, so why the delay? I guess they're trying to tune it for 190hp.

The eAssist thing bothers me more.

Look at Ford - the Fusion hybrid went for it and beat the Camry hybrid by 10mpg in the city. Now Camry fought back and it ahead by 1mpg, so you just *KNOW* Ford is gonna do everything to improve and get the lead back.

Ford is swinging for the fences.

GM bunts.

dieselone

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/12/review-2013-chevrolet-malibu-eco/

Another so so review. The consensus seems to indicate it would be better to wait until the other powertrain options arrive.

circlew

On the other hand, some auto manufacturers are hungrier than others....

2013 Forte

Regards,
OW

greg128

think part of GM's problem is knowing how to price and build to that price. Too many of their vehicles seem 10% or more over priced compared to the competition. For example, a Toyota Highlander or Honda Pilot (low 40's loaded) vs. a GMC Acadia (very high 40's comparably equipped

I don't think GM has a problem at all, according to the data I gathered in about 15 minutes.

For fully loaded models:

The Traverse/Acadia average transaction prices:
Acadia - $44.4K Traverse: $39.5k

Pilot: $38k

Highlander: $35

Sales: YTD 2011

Acadia/Traverse: 170k

Pilot: 104k

Highlander 89k

Go GM!

regards, GA

greg128

I don't think GM has a problem at all, according to the data I gathered in about 15 minutes.


Sources: Truecar.com and goodcarbadcar.net

lemko

It kind of bothers me that the Charger name is on a sedan, especially the lower end models with V-6s. Maybe they should've called these Coronets?

lemko

When I hear "Intrepid," I think of the aircraft carrier:

lemko

Sheesh! The fact that ANYTHING in Wal~Mart was made here is amazing. When Sam Walton was around, he tried to sell mercahndise that was made in the USA in his "Bring It Home to America" campaign. Sadly, his greedy heirs forgot all about that after he passed on.

lemko

Dude, you keep harping about GM playing catch up all the time. It's getting tedious. You're probably the type of guy who'll yell at his kid for getting a "B" in a class you once flunked!

lemko

Not everyone needs class-leading.

Getting tired of that argument. Yeah, maybe I find the so-called "class-leading" car ugly or undesirable. That's like your Mom saying, "Oh, my best friend's daughter is very rich, intelligent, and has a great personality!" Yeah, maybe she also weighs 300 lbs and looks like a warthog crossed with a gorilla.

Shoot, if ones wants to talk "class-leading," he'd have better been the school's valedictorian else he's just a second-class mediocrity himself. Heck, sometimes "class-leading" means nothing in the long run. The school valedictorian could've ended up a homeless crackhead and the dumbest guy in school could've ended up a millionaire.

tlong

Hey, the Malibu is even built by midwesterners, not just by deep-southerners like so many of the imports made here are.

So now even U.S. is not enough, it's region vs. region? :surprise:

tlong

Ford is swinging for the fences.

GM bunts.

Exactly. Hence our criticisms.

Let's see, 30 years of declining market share, bankruptcy, billions in bailouts, loss of multiple divisions ---- and then BUNTS?!.

I'm not sure the DNA of this company can be changed.

greg128

We need to level the playing field by requiring that imported cars be built in plants with the same levels of human rights, else just tax them at a much higher rate

No, we need to level the playing field by requiring that imported cars be
built in plants in the U.S.

We can do that very simply by imposing the same tariff on cars imported from a particular country as is imposed on our vehicles going to theirs at the very least.

I would go beyond that and impose a minumum 25% tariff on any imported vehicle. That would put Americans to work.

lemko

Ford is swinging for the fences

Yeah, too bad they're mostly hitting foul balls or striking out. There isn't ONE car in Ford's entire lineup that I'm remotely interested in. They had three cars on my Car-Shopping A-list and they stupidly dropped them! I'd have seriously considered a massively updated Panther platform car, but NOOOOO! They dropped it for some idiotic reason.

Lincoln hasn't one serious contender for my money since they dumped the Town Car. All Lincoln has is a bunch of not very luxurious, anemic, ugly clones of Ford cars, trucks, and crossovers. Lincoln's new tagline should be "Lincoln: What a Mercury Should Be." Wait a minute! I shouldn't insult my Grand Marquis like that. It's like a Rolls-Royce Phantom compared to anything now in Lincoln's stable.

Heck, I'm more likely to buy a Lexus than a Lincoln at this point. A Chrysler 300 is exponentially more desirable than anything Lincoln has to offer.

tlong

Yeah, too bad they're mostly hitting foul balls or striking out. There isn't ONE car in Ford's entire lineup that I'm remotely interested in. They had three cars on my Car-Shopping A-list and they stupidly dropped them! I'd have seriously considered a massively updated Panther platform car, but NOOOOO! They dropped it for some idiotic reason.

You do realize that the market for big soft sedans is not a growth market?

For people with those tastes, we both agree GM is the leader for non-stratospheric pricing options.