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Comments
There are other parts of the U.S. than the southeast.
I guess GM can do no wrong with you...even in bankruptcy. Don't you think it set them back a bit? Don't you think the competition is what it is BECAUSE GM got a grade of C in almost every category up until 2008?
Like it or not, GM is NOT the leader by any means in any category of cars except the Corvette, interior notwithstanding.
Live with it just like GM lives after the C-11!
Regards,
OW
I'll take that as a "yes" answer. :P
7 in 10 Japanese cars sold in U.S. made in N. America :shades:
Regards,
OW
I'm on it....
Regards,
OW
2010's Top American Manufactured Cars*:
1.Toyota - Camry
2. Honda - Accord
3. Ford - Escape
4. Ford - Focus
5. Chevrolet - Malibu
6. Honda - Odyssey
7. Dodge - Ram 1500 (Quad cab and crew cab only)
8. Toyota - Tundra
9. Jeep - Wrangler
10. Toyota - Sienna
Here is the link:
Made In America: Most and Least American Cars
Looks like Toyota and Honda make more American namepltes then even the Failed 2 and Ford.
Regards,
OW
I still think it's amazing that for all the 'all American' cars Toyota and Honda build, the terrible tsunami there had them completely hamstrung here.
And I'll never forget the total 'deer in the headlights' look when Toyota's head of U.S. operations was asked questions about the huge recalls of 2010. He deferred totally to Mr. Toyoda and said recall decisions came out of Japan.
Even Lemko will admit Caddy, with only one car left, is in catch-up mode. Agree Lincoln is still a shame of a brand.
Regards,
OW
I've said it also. Some people get beer goggles, he must have GM goggles. Speaking of the Vette and its interior, for that money I'd take a Porsche 911.
Well, duh, maybe if I lived near a foreign-owned factory, I'd feel differently, but I live down the road from Lordstown. I think it's natural for most people to 'root for the home team'...except for on this board.
Regards,
OW
“Led by General Motors, the giant domestic auto industry was going to flex its muscle and swat the pesky fly of imported cars off its shoulder,” John Z. DeLorean, the former Chevrolet general manager, said in J. Patrick Wright’s 1979 book, “On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors.”
The Gremlin, Vega and Pinto were small enough to compare directly with the import standard bearer of the time, the Volkswagen Beetle. All three of the domestic entries were conventional designs — shrunken versions of the era’s gargantuan sedans — with their engines in front driving the rear wheels.
But in answering that challenge, American automakers were by the end of 1970 producing three of the most notoriously awful cars ever built — the American Motors Gremlin, Chevrolet Vega and Ford Pinto — and opening the door for the Japanese onslaught of the 1970s and 1980s.
The problem wasn’t that the Vega, Pinto and Gremlin didn’t sell. Kept alive by their makers through the ’70s fuel crises, they sold by the millions over long production lives that covered much of the ’70s. The disaster was that they let down so many Americans.
In 1968 Toyota, Datsun and VW were more of a nuisance than a threat, and Honda was still a year away from selling its first car in the United States. But by 1980, partly because of the door left open to them by the failed Detroit subcompacts, those imports were firmly established as value leaders.
“The Pinto, Gremlin and Vega represented everything that Toyota was not,” Mr. Heitmann, the historian, said.
Four decades later, Detroit is still fighting the perception that it doesn’t take small cars seriously. But with tougher fuel economy rules coming, getting past the stigma of the small ’70s cars is more important than ever.
Here is the full article. I believe if one takes a unbiased view, this reflection will make Detroit strong again. It's good to remeber what not to do going forward.
Puch Lines
Regards,
OW
Unfortunately for most large companies (particularly Banks) in the USA, management-rot gets the best of them if they don't instill a culture of continuous change.
I believe GM can become a leader again but it will take a lot more work. It's nice to see their cars are well made again. Now the push to roll out unbeatable products is the challenge.
Regards,
OW
Not when the home team has sucked year after year;)
If that is the criteria for buying a vehicle then I guess I should be driving a Mitsubishi as the Normal, Ill plant is only about 50 miles away. No thanks.
I do root for Ford, but like many of my favorite teams they disappoint me quite often.
LOL, Just a few! Though I'm more of a southsider so I prefer the Sox. It's family thing as the women in the family are cubs fans and the men are Sox fans.
Not when the home team has sucked year after year;)
You're what we'd call a 'fairweather fan' around here!
All I can say is, Lordstown isn't Chicago.
Really, prior to the Cruze there have been a lot of losers built in Lordstown;)
Ford has arguably built more successful vehicles in Chicago going all the way back to the model T.
Ironically, my wife's '11 Taurus was built there, though I think the people who assembled it must have had a few to many brats and oldstyles;)
I lived near Akron for 4 years, so I'm well aware of the depressed Cleveland fan base. Seemed they were only happy with Ohio State was playing;)
It also shows that you are more out of touch with regular society, the society that would have to BORROW the $10,000 to make the bet, not just pull it out of their pocket willy nilly.
'67-69 Camaros and Firebirds were built there, as well as '66 full-size Chevys and full-size Chevy and GMC vans from '71 til ?. It's been good for the area even if you think you're above driving those kinds of vehicles. I guess I'm a bottom-line kind of guy.
As to supporting the home team on the car front they have abandoned us. Each of the Detroit 3 used to build cars in NJ. The last Ford out of Mahwah was a Fairmont. The last GM car out of Linden was a Caprice. They continued using it to build Blazers but it's gone now. I don't remember what Chrysler built here.
That Mahwah plant used to build Edsels.
Nobody builds here now. I'd have to see who comes closest. Is Chrysler still in Delaware? If they'd make Darts there....
That's not it at all. I've owned several inexpensive compacts (well not inexpensive to me at the time) but found alternatives that were more appealing.
Speaking of full-size vans, they used to be a good option for an active family and GM has certainly built a lot of nice full-size vans. MY FIL had 3 full-size Dodge ram vans in a row from the late 70's to '00. He put over 200k miles all of them (granted with a lot of repairs). You can't beat the room and utility and they are generally comfortable to travel in.
Prior to buying our Suburban, we looked at few full-size vans from GM and Ford. Unfortunately, the vans have pretty much died. Seems they're all expensive conversions or cargo vans with lackluster powertrains. I don't find the passenger models from the factory very appealing anymore. The GM vans from the 80's looked good, now I find all of them ugly inside and out. Plus a vehicle of that size and weight stuck a 5.3 v8 and 4 speed is not an attractive option for heavy towing. You have to go 3/4 ton to tow more than 6k lbs. And I've yet to sample a 3/4 ton vehicle I could tolerate driving day in and day out.
GM, Ford, and Dodge all make great 3/4 and 1ton pickups, but they are just over kill for me. Plus I just don't like how they drive when unladen. Put a ton in the bed or a heavy trailer on back and they are amazing, but just to haul people 90% of the time, they are not ideal.
I wont say that they don't compete, they DO!!! However;
http://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=101391129|suv&veh2=101404599|suv&ve- h3=101400170|suv&show=0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8&comparatorId=5931137
One of the things that gives you "added value" is that the GM Lambdas are much larger, yet return similar fuel economy.
You get a 6 sp auto, 33% more cargo space with all seats up (more than Double the Highlander's capacity) and about 30% more cargo space with the seats down.
Now, I'm not saying that it justify's a huge premium, but the actual cost difference is more like $3-5,000 in what you actually pay.
Because the Equinox isn't made with foreign slave labor parts like the Sportage. BTW, my SIL's Sportage didn't last 10 yrs!! ROTTED AWAY TO JUNK!!!!
The list you posted was top American built nameplates by SALES. Caddy and Lincoln aren't on that list for the same reason Lexus, MB, and BMW aren't-low sales figures.
The second list is littered with American nameplates.
The last list had NO American nameplates.
Hyun/Kia will always be the official car of the underemployed.
The "added value" of size only works if someone looks at it that way. It just depends on what the buyer wants. Seems the Explorer has really been gaining sales too.
Let's look at the YTD sales volume first:
Toyota Highlander: 84,726
Honda Pilot: 104,656
Buick Enclave/Chevy Traverse/GMC Arcadia: 222,575
So the GM trio outsold the Toyota and Honda combined. Why does GM need to lower their prices when they are selling like this? I think they may have some very good MBAs there.
Probably should add 38k for the Acura MDX to the Pilot numbers. Still, the Lambda's have been a success.
Also there's more to it. Toyota also sells over 100k minivans a year and honda isn't far behind. You don't think less Lambda's would sell if GM could actually build a decent minivan. I be more Pilots and Highlanders would sell if they didn't have the minivans.
It appears sales of the Honda Pilot/MDX/Odyssey combo may be ahead YTD of the Lambdas.
Regards,
OW
LOL. That's been the case in the past. Don't know if it still is. I used to have access to Automotive news and GM cars were routinely the least researched automobiles online.
On edmunds most wanted or most researched. Rarely is a GM vehicle on that list.
Before you give them too many A's: dealers have pretty big discounts on the Lambda's, I see an awful lot of them in the rental fleets and how is the GM profit margin on it compared to Honda and Toyota equivalents? That being said, I've rented a few Lambda's and it is a nice vehicle, although it doesn't seem to do as well 4 or 5 years out in reliability. When is the next re-do scheduled for them since they've been basically unchanged since 2008?
That might be too far a stretch. From marketing point of view, Odyssey is a minivan and for quite different crowd. From production point of view, very few components are shared between the Pilot and Odyssey for volume savings. So I don't think they should be combined for any purpose.
On the other hand, the GM trios are targeted for the same market, and share vast majority of components in production thus should be logically combined together for one model in sales count.
I don't know the details of the profitability of each model but as a company, GM has bigger profit than either Honda or Toyota.
It's all still opinion, and people tend to want to be part of the crowd.
The Odyssey shares platform and powertrains (which I consider major components) and are built at the same plant. So yes they're quite different but they have a lot in common too.
My point being Honda is using two completely different configurations off a similar platform to compete in that market. So while they they aren't clones, my point is I believe Odys take sales from the Pilot.
Odyssey is a minivan and for quite different crowd.
I don't know. I know quite a few who own Odys and Pilots. More than once I've heard they were compared before making a choice. At Ford or GM such a choice is not available.
Buick = B
Chevy = B-
Cadilac = B-
GMC = C
Scose based on:
Discount Percentage - Transaction price over last 30 days. Lower Discount = HIGHER GRADE.
Price Variation - Std. Dev. of Transaction price over MSRP over last 30 days. The lower the valuation, the HIGHER THE GRADE.
Customer Loyalty - The number of new-vehicle buyers replacing their current car or truck with the same brand. The higher the loyalty %, the HIGHER THE GRADE.
Retail Sales Change - A YoY comp. in change in retail sales per brand or mfg. The higher the change %, the HIGHER THE GRADE.
Price Trending - Change in average price/MSRP relative to the average price/MSRP over the last 12 months. The lower the change, the HIGHER THE GRADE.
Incentive/Price - A measurement of incentives per unit over transaction price. The lower the ratio, the better the grade.
Market Share Change - A YoY calculation of a brand or mfg's. U.S. market share. The higher the change, the better the grade.
Days in Inventory - Avg. number of days it takes to sell a vehicle once it is delivered to the dealership lot. The lower the number of days, the better the score.
As you can see, GM does not lead the Report Card. Lot's of homework to do! :surprise:
Now you are informed, GM. Go HyunKia! :shades:
Regards,
OW
I'd have to say they are different markets. In spite of their size, minivans are meant to be more people haulers whereas in spite of being able to carry 7 or 8, SUV's and CUV's are more on the utilitarian side.
I agree but they do compete. SUVs all but killed the minivan market back in the 90's.
I wonder if GM could sell more off the lambda platform if they could have built a competitive minivan off of it (if it would be possible).
Interesting how things progress. Minivans pretty much took out full-size vans and wagons. SUV's put a hurt on minivans, now CUVs have all but killed full size-SUVs, and minivans have made come back in some ways.
The grey area are with families. If I didn't have towing requirements, it would be a tough call between a minivan and a CUV. I'd certainly consider and shop both to determine which fit my needs/wants better.
Flipping burgers is the only way to make Hyun/Kia appealing. I guess you have more homework to do.
If your Optima makes 200,000 km's over 9 years with nothing but routine maintenance like my wife's old faithful Grand Am i will be amazed.
I personally have had 3 friends upgrade from their cheap Hyun/Kia products. None them them kept them because they were junk and undesirable. One upgraded from a Tucson to a Dodge Ram (Dealer took advantage of them with the finance rate) the other had his engine blow in his Hyundai Accent under warranty at 30,000km(something to do with the block heater i don't recall the exact details, plus he had to fight to get it fixed under warranty) and the last one just upgraded from a Elantra to a real vehicle a F-150 because he was making more money.
The first vehicle i bought on my own was a 01 Kia Rio with 60,000km's on it!!! Believe it or not!!!! Biggest mistake of my life, only drove it 5000km over 1 year and had multiple issues like a tiny black box under the dash frying (that caused my taillights and instrument to fail) trim falling off, clunky transmission and it was also a rattle trap.. After 1 year i traded it in for a Impala and haven't looked back.
Well at least i learned a valuable lesson....you get what you pay for, thats why i will never own another Hyun/Kia product ever again.
I promise to update ANY issue on this SUPERB Optima SX. Not one issue in 5 months (while the GMC had one after 2 weeks of ownership leading to over $4,000 in failed parts/labor in 5 years!!!) 37 mpg best on-hwy MPG while owning the mid-size 4-cylinder performance crown! Make my burger Sirloin!
Honda CR-V - 53K miles $0.
Mazda Cx-9 - 9K miles $0.
Buying MF Global investments from John Corzine is more appealing than buying GM products! :P
Regards,
OW
The term "share" here means they share the design. Engineers can design one car, and made small modifications to design the other one instead of a ground up re-design. But the physical components are different so the parts in one cannot be used in the other. Metal is super hard and not expandable; it won't fit with even a 0.01" difference. Take a look the comparison:
Item: Pilot; Odyssey
Wheelbase: 109.2"; 118.1"
Track: 67.7"; 68.1"
Length: 191.4"; 202.9"
Engine power: 250HP; 248HP
Drive train: 2 or 4 wheel drive; 2 wheel drive only
So you can see that most of the platform and some of the engine components must be different; thus they cannot share those physical components.
There are 2 major groups of people who buy SUVs; the people who hate minivans and the people who wants the high sitting position and off road capabilities of the SUVs. Most likely none of these people would opt for minivans.