GM News, New Models and Market Share

uplanderguy

Outsold the Nissan Leaf last month. But of course, you guys, the MSNBC of this forum, leave stuff like that out.

anythngbutgm

It's a pretty well known fact that Volt sales have been less than steller due to high prices, new, unproven technology and lower petrol prices. Even though the spinmeisters and shillls would like us to believe it's a runaway hit and there are long waiting lists. Or that production cannot keep up with demand...

Chevrolet Volt turns one: Federal investigation caps year of sluggish sales

Even Ruess isn't convinced...

lemko

I was talking with my wife yesterday about the 2005 Buick LaCrosse we've had for nearly seven years and that we've never had ANY issues with it in all that time! When better automobiles are built, Buick indeed does build them!

imidazol97

The Volts are doing fine. The ones at a local dealer disappeared off the lot of to customers. They have a smal collection of Cruzes and Sonics.

Saw a Volt zoom onto the outer belt of Louisville and away. Doing great.

Tried to connect my car to the Bing charger, or whatever the name is, here at the Hampton Inn. Couldn't find a place to connect it! Odd to see EV charging stations, but then I'm in the home of Nissan and a finger count of miles from their Smyrna truck plant and future source of Leaves.

Maybe my next GM wil have a Bing connection for charging.

dieselone

Kind of surprising, but on autotrader there are 18 used volt listed within 300 miles of me. Over 1000 new within 300 mi. I don't know how accurate those new car listings are, but that seems extreme for a car I've only seen 3 of since introduced.

I went through a few pages of listings and almost all were premium models meaning a 46k+ MSRP. That's pretty steep. Even with the credit you're looking at $40k.

ateixeira

In order to get a LEED Platinum certification, our building installed 2 EV chargesr in the garage. They're great parking spots, too, right next to the elevator.

That could help boost sales a little.

uplanderguy

I think it's typical for used-car dealers to get a hold of rare or unique very-late-model cars for sale. That's why you'll see Z06 'Vettes with 2K miles at a used car dealer, and the like. That's been pretty typical as long as I've been looking at cars (forty years).

ateixeira

I'm a little late to the party, but CUVs and indeed cross-shopped with minivans, very much so. It basically is GM's minivan. Ford's is the Flex.

I tested a Saturn Outlook before buying my van. Back then there was no backup camera option, no DI on the engine, but later those things were added.

Despite not buying it for the reasons above, GM hit a solid home run with the Lambdas. Notice they addresses the concerns I had, even. Continuous improvement (DI arrived soon after launch).

Lambdas are GM at their best, IMHO. They focus on GM strengths - truck-like towing capacity exceeds competition, big cargo room, etc. The different brands are nicely differentiated (Saturn and GMC were too similar, IMHO, but then the Saturn was dropped). The Enclave is a lot more upscale than a Traverse, and they don't look alike.

Even with incentives they sell for higher transactions costs, and odds are happy owners will buy another GM when it's time to replace them.

When GM makes a sincere, complete effort, they can create a hit. Let's see that thinking applied to other segments.

tlong

Even if your car didn't experience the issue, that could be four unscheduled dealer visits in a year or less. I can tell you, I have never had that in 31 years of new GM ownership.

Yet I do remember you telling us about major work in fairly early miles on one of your GMs (sorry don't remember the details). You were pleased that the dealer stepped up and helped out. But AFAIR it was not only one or more trips to the dealer that shouldn't have had to happen, it was mechanical failure(s) that should not have happened at all at the mileage you indicated. Please remind us of the details, and let me know if I'm not remembering properly.

uplanderguy

The Sonata had four recalls in the first year of ownership. I never had four unscheduled visits in the first year of ownership...ever.

My Uplander van, in one visit, had a TCM installed and a steering rack installed, free of charge, at 79K miles and without an extended warranty. The vehicle was five years old, and this was after the bankruptcy.

rayainsw

'Local dealer had a 5 year old STS-V - insanely rare, 30K miles, as new, could have got it for the price of a new Camcord. Another local dealer has a 35K mile 06 Maxx SS, loaded, they want 14K for it, I bet you could drive away in it for 12 tops. '

I drove an STS-v in 2006. While I found it to be a nice car in many respects [ and with published acceleration times almost identical to the coupe I drive today ] I decided on a different GM car at the time. For several reasons.

- Ray
No GM in the garage right now . . .

dieselone

I never had four unscheduled visits in the first year of ownership...ever.

Oh I have and I would have wished they were something like a recall, instead of one problem after another and being stranded out in the boondocks..

That wasn't on a GM vehicle, but a Ford a while back.

Also when I was just out of HS, my dad ordered a '92 Crown Vic in early '91. It to was quite troublesome the first year, then went on to 250k relatively trouble free miles. It traveled to the dealer on a hook once, then had several annoying small issues the first year.

ateixeira

A NHTSA web site search only finds 3 recalls for the first model year.

And to be fair, campaigns 10V426000 and 10V457000 were for the same issue ("STEERING:GEAR BOX:SHAFT SECTOR"), so I doubt any single car had both problems.

That means at most 2 visits to the dealer.

The first one only affected 5,893 cars, and 3rd one only affected 60 cars, so incredibly rare.

Total Sonata recalls = 144,307 per these guys:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallsearch.cfm

Cruze in the same year had 233,419 recalls. Malibu has zero, but that just goes to show what a v1.0 model suffers before they get it right. You were smart to get a Malibu after issues had already been sorted out.

Doesn't seem like the Sonata recall experience was atypical. Just v1.0 syndrome at play.

ateixeira

Replying to myself, here, but we should also add that there are zero recalls for 2009 and 2010 Sonatas per NHTSA.

Proof that an older model on the market for a while has issues sorted out.

dieselone

Looks a TSBs.

I found 53 TSBs for the 2011 Malibu vs 38 for the 2011 Sonota.

2011 Ford Fusion has 22, so that does match most reports I've seen regarding the Fusion being one of the most reliable vehicles in the class.

I didn't look through them to analyse the problems, but more TSBs tells me their are more documented technical issues.

uplanderguy

Next time you're at the drug store, pick up the Automobile magazine that's on the shelf. Their long-term Sonata had four recalls--same car, four recalls.

uplanderguy

Go Mexico!

uplanderguy

Note that the Malibu's TSB's don't always apply to only the 2011 model, but an earlier model year as well (since the basic car has been built for four model years). The TSB's for the 2011 Sonata are just for that model. Trust me, there'll be more TSB's for 2011 Sonatas in a year or more, once other items are discovered. And that is typical for any new car, I'm not complaining, just sayin'.

Four recalls in a year is pretty bad.

uplanderguy

Of course, a famous poster here made the incorrect, blanket statement, "GM does not honor its warranty for cars built before the bankruptcy".

circlew

No, just the shock and the battery drain the first year. But don't you agree the experience for 10 unscheduled repairs would have turned you into a customer of a different brand?

Regards,
OW

tlong

Total Sonata recalls = 144,307 per these guys

We should be clear on terminology - that is "recalled cars", not "recalls". Obviously a better selling car may have more calls recalled for the same problem, if more vehicles are out in circulation.

I've never seen recalls as nearly a big of a problem as actual failures on vehicles. Take my Acura TL - a recall for the external temp sensor, fixed at an oil change. No extra inconvenience on my part at all.

In my experience, most recalls are minor and can be handled during a non-urgent routine service, unless the recall is some super-critical or likely failure scenario. But obviously quantities of recalls do reflect overall quality control issues.

uplanderguy

In the TSB post, I don't remember seeing how many recalls the 2011 Malibu had. Can someone let me know?

dieselone

Go Mexico!

If that's what it takes for Ford to build a better car so be it. I've seen what comes out of Ford's chicago plant and it's pretty sad.

The fit and finish of my brother's '10 Fusion shames my wife's '11 Taurus.

Sure, I prefer to see the domestics build their cars in the US, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Fusion.

uplanderguy

2011 Ford Fusion has 22, so that does match most reports I've seen regarding the Fusion being one of the most reliable vehicles in the class.

Either that, or Ford is less responsive to field issues.

dieselone

Ford is less responsive to field issues.

That certainly is a possibility, but I haven't seen any data to back that up. OTOH, JD power, CU, truedelta, etc, all rate the Fusion extremely well. Now I know some have issues with some of these sources, but when they all agree it's a bit harder to dispute IMO.

My brother has 20k on his '10 Fusion sport and it's been flawless. Last time I was in it I found it extremely solid. I don't like all the lower Fusion trim levels, but I do like the Sport model a lot. Looks decent, and performs well with the 3.5 v6.

I may be a Ford guy, but I'll be the first to Ford has a lot of faults and I certainly will not go blindly to Ford for my next vehicle. Service is one area they have fallen short IMO. I've been burned several times and that's why I've owned many non Ford vehicles.

ateixeira

So NHTSA is wrong? Or Automobile made a mistake?

I think the latter is far more likely.

They could have mistaken a TSB/complaint of theirs vs. an actual recall.

ateixeira

Of course, a famous poster here made the incorrect, blanket statement, "GM does not honor its warranty for cars built before the bankruptcy".

Same guy also changed that to "does not always honor" yet you keep forgetting.

Don't shoot the messenger. I also point out when circle Dub is wrong.

uplanderguy

Yeah, but that same guy also posted an investigation that closed nearly three years ago as a new investigation, and has posted the same pic of an SRX on fire at least three times, and also said he saw one of the 3,996 recalled world-wide on fire himself (yes, it is possible I admit, but...)

uplanderguy

So NHTSA is wrong? Or Automobile made a mistake?

I think the latter is far more likely.

They could have mistaken a TSB/complaint of theirs vs. an actual recall.

Take a look at the mag. They detailed each recall.

I think it's far more likely that when they're documenting items for a long-term article, a bunch of motorheads will get the info right, over whatever's listed on a government website (no offense to any government employees here).

dieselone

http://www.automobilemag.com/am/2010/hyundai/sonata/recalls.html

Might have to take that back, on Automobile Mag's website they claim no recalls;)

dieselone

Looks like SAAB is done.

uplanderguy

Look at the mag...don't know how else I can continue to say it.

ateixeira

Four recalls in a year is pretty bad.

You sure about that?

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/12_month_car_reviews/1106_2011_hyundai_sona- - ta_se_may_update/index.html

went to the dealer for its 22,500-mile service ... The dealership also acted on two outstanding technical service bulletins while our Sonata was in the shop. One campaign addressed a sticking fuel-filler door. We've never experienced that issue with our car, and the technician determined there was no need to make adjustments to our Sonata's fuel door

So that is a scheduled visit and both TSBs not recalls, not to mention their car did not even have the fuel door issue.

with a month to go in our long-term test, the Sonata can still claim a flawless reliability record

Not quite the 4 unscheduled visits nightmare picture you painted, eh?

How'd they like it overall? Let's ask them...

the Hyundai Sonata is still earning praise for how well it masters the basics

I checked out the current issue of Automobile, they have a long term page with a Fiat and two other cars, none of them even Korean.

uplanderguy

Hey, do you guys actually get together to discuss what will be left out/misrepresented? Aren't we talking about the 2011 Sonata, not the 2010?

ateixeira

Look at the mag

I did, you said current issue, it has a Fiat and two other non-Korean cars.

At this point you need to retract your statement and apologize, or name a specific source, month and pages, please.

ateixeira

Next time you're at the drug store, pick up the Automobile magazine that's on the shelf. Their long-term Sonata had four recalls--same car, four recalls.

Right now I can verify, with 100% certainty, that this statement is absolutely false.

uplanderguy

Please note that what you posted is dated June 8, 2011. The magazine was on the newsstand, when I saw it, probably three weeks ago.

At least one recall was the intermediate steering shaft, I can recall that from the recent article.

ateixeira

Of course, a famous poster here made the incorrect, blanket statement

From someone tossing out accusations like that, no less... :P

ateixeira

You did not say "recent", you said the one on drug store shelves now.

That was false.

uplanderguy

Right now I can verify, with 100% certainty, that this statement is absolutely false.

And I can claim with 100% certainty that I feel like I'm arguing with one of my teenage daughters now.

By now, it must be last month's magazine...not the May wrap up that someone else posted here earlier, and not about the previous generation car. Sheesh.

stever

Link or it didn't happen. :P

(Links are never wrong).

ateixeira

You sent me on a fool's errand, what reaction do you expect?

Month, page? You don't even have it in front of you, yet you're quoting from it like it's gospel?

I'm sure those TSBs are included, even if there is a new update that has not yet made it to their web site.

4 unscheduled stops? Since June? Impossible at this point, you simply cannot be telling the whole truth.

Anyone have the December issues of Automobile?

uplanderguy

I thumbed through it at a drug store. I don't care enough about it to make stuff up to post on this forum.

You'll see it at your doctor's or dentist's office soon enough. But please folks, don't post old stuff that isn't what is being discussed.

dieselone

Aren't we talking about the 2011 Sonata, not the 2010?

Heck I don't know, I thought it was the 2010;)

FWIW, Motortrend lists 3 recalls for the Sonata.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2011/hyundai/sonata/recalls/

I don't have a dog in this issue. The recall issues don't phase me all that much. Heck, recalls can be convenient. GM had a fuel pump wiring recall on my '00 Suburban. My fuel pump was having issues prior to the recall.

I needed to have the fuel pump replaced and I had it done at the same time as the recall. That saved me a few hundred dollars in labor as the dealer agreed to only charge me for the pump and not any labor.

ateixeira

That "old stuff" shows that those 2 early issues were TSBs and neither required an unscheduled stop.

100% relevant to the current discussion.

ateixeira

Same 3 recalls listed by NHTSA, by the way, and again two of them are for the same thing, so could not possibly both affect the same car.

At this point, we have to ask, are you sure we're even talking about the same car? Maybe it was a Volvo or MINI.

Those were actually in the current edition.

tlong

Looks like SAAB is done.

Born from jets.... died from GM!

dieselone

Born from jets.... died from GM!

LOL!!!

anythngbutgm

Shocker: Senior Citizens Prefer Large (and Discontinued) Luxury Cars

The four cars that were predominantly delivered to seniors — and are now dead — were the Lincoln Town Car (90 percent were purchased by seniors), Buick Lucerne (87 percent), Cadillac DTS (85 percent), and Cadillac STS (71 percent). As it so happens, all four model lines are no longer in series production.

There’s a silver lining to this black cloud, however: many of the cars on the list are also being updated. The DTS and STS have made way for the imminent release of the XTS sedan, which blends the sportier character of the STS with the luxury of the DTS."

Lincoln Town Car 90 percent
Buick Lucerne 87 percent
Cadillac DTS 85 percent
Cadillac CTS 74 percent
Cadillac STS 71 percent
Buick LaCrosse 59 percent
Lincoln MKZ 54 percent
Toyota Avalon 54 percent
Chevrolet Impala 51 percent
Hyundai Azera 25 percent

dieselone

The four cars that were predominantly delivered to seniors — and are now dead

The cars, the seniors, or both?

The good news for those who like those types of cars is cream puff samples should be available for years to come at a local estate sale.

There is an old lady down the road from me (she's gotta be 80+). I always try to get by her house before she pulls out or I'll be stuck behind her going 20mph.