GM News, New Models and Market Share

obyone

I promise to update ANY issue on this SUPERB Optima SX.

Be sure to post any issues on the Optima forum. Doubt anyone here could help you with any Korean based issues. :shades:

BTW, I'm being polite.

tlong

I personally have had 3 friends upgrade from their cheap Hyun/Kia products.

That's really great. The best possible outcome for me is when tons of people buy from the D3, supporting and improving the US economy. And I can go ahead and buy whatever vehicle(s) appeal to me, knowing that the economy is stronger in any case. :shades:

circlew

No one at GM could help me with my MAP sensor issue either....until after strike 3, I evoked the Lemon Law paperwork and sent it to GM. All of a sudden, GM Technical called the dealer and then determined the problem and fixed it.

Then they went bankrupt. :lemon:

So far, the Kia Optima SX makes the GMC Yukopn Denali look like a joke.

Regards,
OW

circlew

Are we sure there wasn't a better way to overhaul GM and C? Was Ford so much different?

Whether the $14 billion loss is accurate will depend on when and at what price the U.S. Treasury sells the approximately 25% stake it still holds in GM. GM stock (GM) is trading around $20.30, well below the $33 at which the company went public in November 2010.

In addition, Rattner acknowledged in a recently published epilogue to his 2010 book, "Overhaul," that about $19.4 billion the government put into GM before the 2009 bankruptcy is "lost money."

Oh well, money out to sea....

Regards,
OW

kernick

GM has bigger profit than either Honda or Toyota.

And once again, I'll remind everyone - GM does not currently pay income tax that would reduce their profit, due to the provisions of their bankruptcy. GM will not pay income tax for the next 5 years or so.

And if GM does have any profit it should go back to the Treasury to pay for their prior handouts. Here's the real story from the people who organized the GM-welfare.

Whether the $14-billion loss is accurate will depend on when and at what price the U.S. Treasury sells the approximately 25% stake it still holds in GM. GM stock closed Friday at $20.15, 39% below the $33 at which the company went public in November 2010.

In addition, Rattner acknowledged in a recently published epilogue to his 2010 book, "Overhaul," that about $19.4 billion that the government put into GM before the 2009 bankruptcy is "lost money."

Asked what he would have done differently, Rattner at first said, "amazingly little," but then after a brief reflection he added, "We put more cash into GM than we now, in hindsight, probably needed to."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2011/12/gm-general-motors-c- - - hrysler-auto-bailout-loss-obama/1

uplanderguy

Does the Optima have to look like that though? How 'bout the model that looks like two pieces of trim over the front two doors fell off? And those potato-chip-thin looking wheels....

circlew

The wheels are different, I'll agree. If I had my choice, I'd change them but I can live with them. The tires are the weak point (as far as performance goes). What trim are you talking about...on the SX? I don't get you...



Regards,
OW

circlew

Here's the new 'Bu.



I would still take the Optima just on looks, let alone the performance factor.

Regards,
OW

andre1969

I'd want to see it in person, and from other angles, but judging from that pic above, I think the 2013 looks pretty attractive. I know the new one loses about 4.5" of wheelbase, and perhaps a couple inches of length, and I was afraid that would make it look too stubby. But from that pic you posted, I think it still looks nicely proportioned.

I'm really curious to see how the new Malibu feels inside. The current model just feels a bit too snug for my tastes. I actually fit fine in the front seat. Legroom's good, head's not touching the ceiling, steering wheel is at a decent distance, shoulder's not jammed up against the door panel, etc. But, I'm just used to a roomier feeling cabin.

dave8697

My friend wants to replace a v6 accord with 250+ k miles on it with another used car that will save him $100 a month in gas. Based on 25,000 miles a year. I would guess he is only getting 23-25 hwy mpg from the '95 accord. He looked at a '09 Prius with 58000 miles on it for $17,700. I told him I paid less than that for my last new car. What used cars for around $10,000 have plenty of life left in them, some warranty left, and not more than 60,000 miles giving over 30 mpg hwy? For a 100 mile per day interstate commute.

dave8697

I came from the other extreme. I switched from a Riv which ties the Cad ETC as the largest coupe in the day ('96) to a Malibu. I have never been in any car that has bucket seats as comfortable and roomy as the Riv and I would rate the Buick seats as many times more comfortable than the Malibu seats. Room is perfectly OK in the Malibu, and you have to give up something to be getting the high mileage it delivers.

dieselone

That's a tough one. If he wants a midsize family sedan, it will be hard to find something with all of those requirements. Particularly the miles and warranty aspect.

Off the top of my head, I'd look to an Impala or maybe the previous gen Malibu. The resale on those are pretty low. A 4cyl 07 Malibu should get 30+, and have low miles. Likely won't have a warranty though. Just my 2 cents.

A quick look on autotrader yielded several 07 Malibu's with 40-50k miles for $11k.

circlew

Saw an -06 Altima 2.5L 4-cyl. for $10,000 with 53K on the clock.

Also saw an '02 Camry with 66K, an '07 Aura XR with 55K.

Regards,
OW

andre1969

A 4cyl 07 Malibu should get 30+, and have low miles. Likely won't have a warranty though. Just my 2 cents.

A 4-cyl Malibu around that vintage might just be in the sweet spot, blending decent economy with a low price. Its EPA rating was better than domestic competition such as the Fusion or Sebring. Actually, pulling up the stats, it ties with the 4-cyl Accord, slightly beats the Camry on the highway, and only loses slightly to the Altima in the city cycle...

Malibu 2.2/automatic: 21/31
Sebring 2.4/automatic: 21/29
Fusion 2.3/automatic: 20/29
Accord 2.4/automatic: 21/31
Camry 2.4/automatic: 21/30
Altima 2.5/CVT: 23/31.

So, you get Japanese car fuel efficiency, but a discounted domestic car price. Of course, you can always make the argument that the Japanese cars are going to have the refinement, quality/reliability (perceived or actual), etc. But I'd imagine a Malibu would save you enough up front, to more than offset any shortcomings.

Actually, I kinda liked the '04-07 Malibu, with the exception of the styling and the electric steering. But I found it to be fairly comfortable inside, and actually roomier than the current Malibu. The interior quality wasn't the best, but GM was at least on the mend by that time so, IMO at least, it was nicer than the previous Malibu.

dieselone

Yeah, that vintage Malibu seemed like a decent car. I just can't get past the drab exterior. But if I needed basic transportation in a sedan at a rock bottom price, I might be able to over look some things.

dieselone

Saw an -06 Altima 2.5L 4-cyl. for $10,000 with 53K on the clock.

Also saw an '02 Camry with 66K, an '07 Aura XR with 55K.

Of those choices the Camry would be my pick considering Dave's requirements.

What were the prices on the Camry and Aura. I don't think a 3.6 powered Aura XR would routinely push 30mpg.

If the Altima has a CVT (can't remember if they had a CVT then) I'd stay away. They preform well and are fuel efficient, but if that trans dies you're looking at one heck of a repair bill. I know nissan extended the warranty on the CVTs to 10 years/120k miles, but I don't know the years covered.

lemko

I HATE those wheels! I've seen an Optima without them and it looks much better.

For a guy who hates GM so much, he sure spends a lot of time here. Why doesn't he stay on the Hyundai-Kia boards since he loves them so much?

lemko

I think the Malibu Maxx made during those years would make an interesting choice. It's sort of got an offbeat flavor different from most midsize family sedans. There's a guy in my neighborhood who has one.

dieselone

I think the Malibu Maxx made during those years would make an interesting choice.

Yeah it would. The only thing is they're a little bit harder to find and only come with a v6. They are cheap enough though. I found 8 models on autotrader within 75 miles of my house. One was an 06 Maxx LT with 47k miles for only 10,400.

EPA ratings are 19/28, so I don't know how realistic 30+ mpg is on a routine basis. But I'd think if you could get a better price on the car, a few mpg isn't that big of a deal.

Regardless, for the money, a Maxx would probably be a prudent choice.

fintail

Maxx SS for me, please. Coolest version and rare.

dieselone

There are 2 major groups of people who buy SUVs; the people who hate minivans and the people who wants the high sitting position and off road capabilities of the SUVs. Most likely none of these people would opt for minivans.

Just google CUV vs minivan and you'll get roughly 1.4 million hits. I know they are cross shopped because I've done it myself and I know many others that have too. Hell my neighbor owns both, a Highlander and Ody. My BIL drives a MDX, and my SIL a Caravan. Actually there are roughly 5 or 6 houses in my neighbor hood that own both a CUV and a minivan.

I agree with your premise that calculating model sales Honda isn't going to count Pilot and Oddy sales together. But I believe they are cross shopped more than you realize and are going after similar buyers.

There are certain percent of buyers who wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan and on the other end you have those who think a CUV is useless. In the middle you have a lot of people with families that will consider both.

GM chose to go after both with the Lambdas, and Honda chose two use two different configurations to attract those buyers (I guess toyota does too).

I did read a few articles from several years ago on the development of the Lambdas, and a minivan was considered for the 09 model year but was dropped due to GM thinking it would sell well enough.

dieselone

Maxx SS for me, please. Coolest version and rare.

That's no lie. I did a quick autotrader search and the nearest one was almost 150 miles away and the're still reasonably priced too.

circlew

The Camry and Aura were $10K.

Regards,
OW

greg128

I like the Malibu much better than the Optma.

It doesn't say "HEY LOOK AT ME!"

greg128

The Malibu looks much classier IMHO

Go GM!

Regards,
GA

uplanderguy

Although I could not find an image online, twice (maybe it was the same car), in a hotel parking lot near Harrisburg, PA, I saw an Optima that on both sides only had the chrome trim above the doors, starting over the rear doors and going back. It was this way on both sides and my Ford-buff coworker even said, "WTF?".

Incidentally, not a big fan of the front fender "grille", be it on a Caddy, Ford, or Kia.

circlew

Ever think the '13 Mailbu might be saying "Hey, don't look at me!"? :surprise:

The taillights are a bit odd, don't you think?...kinda like when you step on a frog and the eyes bug out...



Regards,
OW

uplanderguy

I own an '11, but I think these taillights are an improvement. I'm thinking they're 'staggered' a little bit, which is a nice touch. Picks up on that longstanding Chevy tradition of multiple taillights on each side. In profile I don't think it's as elegant as the previous generation. I'm hoping one can buy a side molding for it too (this one doesn't have it).

circlew

Here's a great taillight treatment.



Trim and all.



Regards,
OW

fintail

A decent bang for the buck. Sadly, GM might still be in the position where they are best to buy used. A harder game to play if you are mainstream rather than highline (which are almost always a better buy used).

Local dealer had a 5 year old STS-V - insanely rare, 30K miles, as new, could have got it for the price of a new Camcord. Another local dealer has a 35K mile 06 Maxx SS, loaded, they want 14K for it, I bet you could drive away in it for 12 tops.

dieselone

5 year old STS-V - insanely rare, 30K miles, as new,

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen one of those on the road. That would be a steal at the price level you're talking about.

06 Maxx SS, loaded, they want 14K for it, I bet you could drive away in it for 12 tops.

Those are the prices I've been seeing. Makes buying a new Cruze or Focus seem stupid. Save $10k and have something a bit more unique.

andre1969

I came from the other extreme. I switched from a Riv which ties the Cad ETC as the largest coupe in the day ('96) to a Malibu.

I remember the first time I sat in a '95-99 era Riv, I was a bit disappointed. It was big enough inside, but I guess I was just expecting bigger! Just going by feel, I'd say it was about as big inside as my old '80 Malibu coupe.

Still, it wasn't enough to totally turn me off to the Riv. In fact, on the day I ended up bying my 2000 Intrepid, way back in 1999, I was planning on going to look at a used '95 that was for sale for around $10K. But, before I had a chance to do that, I took my uncle to the dealer to pick up his truck from servicing, and before I knew it, I was test driving cars, and then signing on the dotted line!

And, if I could find a nice example at a good price, I wouldn't rule out a Riviera, even today.

fintail

I think the STS-V was offered at like 29K, but I know something like that is a slow seller, so no doubt it changed hands for less. Say 26K or so, beats anything new in that class, and from what I know is not a problematic vehicle. Saddest thing is that a new Impala MSRPs for that, but I can't imagine actual transaction prices for those going much over 20.

I saw a leather lined Cruze today, and it was a rental. I wonder if GM is trying to up fleet quality to lure in customers (I think Hyunkia has done this) or is dumping unsold cars.

lemko

Though I like the 1970 Chevelle/Malibu the best, I like the 1971-72 rear the best. It looks the most "Chevy" whereas the other years look kind of anonymous.

lemko

DANG!!! Too bad that STS-V is all the way on the other side of the country from me! An STS-V for the price of a Camcord? Count me in!

fintail

To be honest, if something happened to my daily driver and I had to find a new car, I would have given it a look. Huge power, extreme rarity, solid platform, it'd be cool. Haven't seen it listed in the free car rag for a couple weeks, so I assume it sold. Those things must have been over 80K when new.

lemko

Yeah, they were. I remember looking at one very briefly around the time I bought my DTS Performance. I couldn't justify paying that much for any car no matter how nice.

fintail

One place Caddy is definitely competing with the Germans is on the depreciation front :shades:

iluvmysephia1

GM will always be the car of the uninformed.

It's great to have other minds on here that are not only informed, they are indeed correct, and right. And, BTW, your Kia Optima's wheels are actually growing on me. We at Kia World knocked them badly when we first saw them, but their look is coming around on me.

And also, I don't think your Optima screams "look at me" at all. It goes about it's work intelligently, correct, properly dimensioned and oozing good class. Let the negative GM bozos eat shards of glass while they lament they stupid GM's schmultz into nothing-ness.

After the U.S. taxpayers bailed them out without a vote of the common working American person, might I add. Gee, what a great idea that was and will continue ta be, eh? :sick:

circlew

Well, thanks for the kind words. The SX is so far ahead of anything GM has produced in its class for decades.

Now, for yet another GM failure...

Saab files for bankruptcy after GM veto

Regards,
OW

uplanderguy

Ah, your balance is always so refreshing.

Noticed you had zero comment on four recalls on a new Hyundai Sonata.

Even if your car didn't experience the issue, that could be four unscheduled dealer visits in a year or less. I can tell you, I have never had that in 31 years of new GM ownership.

I think Dr. Phil or Freud would comment on a hater posting to a forum so often and repeatedly. It's bizarre-o.

circlew

Tanks for your post.

Why should I post about the Sonata issues? I told you I would post ANY issues on the Optima. Toyota and Honda have huge issues going forward as their management is in a funk afaic. Take a look at Acura, which just decided to go for mediocrity! At least Akerson KNOWS GM needs to improve way faster than currently capable.

BTW, I had 10 unscheduled visits to the GMC dealer on my previous GM example of a bomb!

Shock Absorber Failed
Battery Drain Condition
MAP Sensor - 4 visits to resolve + Lemon Law
Blown Power Steering Pump
Water Pump
Air Bag Sensor
Failed A/C compressor

I am very happy your experiences with GM do not match mine! I wouldn't wish it on even the most loyal GM customer!

I feel better now! Thanks for the therapy!!

Regards,
OW

uplanderguy

You had those unscheduled visits in the first year of ownership, like with the Sonata? Seems a bit hard to believe.

anythngbutgm

On a roll...

anythngbutgm

GM CEO wants to speed up change

"NEW YORK (AP) — Dan Akerson is hardly a corporate diplomat.

The chairman and chief executive at Government Motors Co. says publicly what other CEOs say in private: he disses competitors' cars and laments his company's lumbering bureaucracy. He's told reporters that Ford should "sprinkle holy water" on its troubled Lincoln luxury brand, and has called Toyota's Prius hybrid a "geek-mobile." His candor often rattles the nerves of GM's public relations staff.

And you know what makes him really mad?

"There is a resistance to change," at GM, Akerson recently told The Associated Press."

anythngbutgm

Maybe the fire recall has some legs afterall?

What demand?

anythngbutgm

Investigation of Chevy Volt Prompts Opel to Delay Sales of Ampera

Earlier this month, Government Motors offered to buy back Volts from American owners if they were concerned about the fire risk. Mr. Marshall said that such action was premature in the case of the Ampera, but the automaker would “come to some solution” with concerned customers who had ordered the cars.

lol...

“We’re aware of what G.M. is doing in the States, but we are not aware of anyone coming to us about safety issues,” he said. “But if they do and they are insistent about them, we would talk to them about a resolution.” :confuse:

anythngbutgm

Muller Gives Up, Files For Saab Bankruptcy

anythngbutgm

link title

Rattner said he wished the task force had done more to close the gap in wages between American automakers and foreign competitors, as labor in the U.S. costs substantially more than overseas. That wage gap has been the subject of recent talks between American automakers and UAW leaders, as new contracts were discussed.

“We asked all the stakeholders to make very significant sacrifices,” Rattner said. “We should have asked the UAW to do a bit more. We did not ask any UAW member to take a cut in their pay.”

What's good for the UAW is good for America...

uplanderguy

Was this link actually current, or another nearly-three-year-old post presented by you as current?