Automobile's web site has the long-term articles from December and prior, and I just saw January in print. They do only have one update dated December, and usually 3 or more for other months, so could just not be published yet.
Four is possible, but 4 TSBs, or 1 recall and 3 TSBs. I just can't believe 4 recalls, or 4 unscheduled dealer visits for that matter (after June). Maybe it was wishful thinking and you got a little carried away?
Autoweek (sounds similar) had a long-term Sonata, but it spend zero days out of service.
Inside Line's Sonata spent 1 day out of service for the steering recall.
Some one who reads this thread must have the December issue, c'mon folks....Buehler?
Some one who reads this thread must have the December issue, c'mon folks....Buehler?
I get to many mags as it is. I do read Automobile at the library I visit weekly while my daughters are across the street taking there piano lessons. I'll be there Wednesday and I'll look for myself.
What do the GM Supporters have to say to the former Saab employees this Holiday Season....Go GM??
Like I said, I do not hate GM but I will not buy their products until they are the best. There are many holes in their current line up and are playing catch up and will continue to play catch up for many years to come.
It's hard to adeptly maneuver a battleship that bought a torpedo to their engine room. Saab represents a continuing bailing of Old GM. Like it or not, there is still more junk in the trunk.
The writing was on the wall a long, long time ago. Any employee who stayed this long and expected long-term job security is just plain stupid and doesn't deserve a job.
I wouldn't call them stupid or deserving of loosing employment but my heart goes out to them anyway.
Also, I never wanted any UAW member to loose their jobs but any employees that relies on an entity such as the UAW instead of their own capabilities will reap the consequences.
Change hurts unless you completely believe change is good.
The writing was on the wall a long, long time ago. Any employee who stayed this long and expected long-term job security is just plain stupid and doesn't deserve a job.
Sorry, but it's true.
No question. They should be thankful for collecting a check from SAAB as long as they did. Hope they use the last one wisely.
Here is some hope that Honda is shedding its GM-Disease.
We already had heard inklings that Honda was fast-tracking a refresh for the new Civic, with a mid-cycle update now expected in 2013 rather than spring 2014. American Honda President John Mendel has admitted the Civic has been poorly received by critics and consumers, and previously said the company was “appropriately energized” to revamp the car.
Ito reportedly explained that the 2012 Civic was under development during the American financial crisis, which led Honda executives to believe Americans would accept lower-quality cars, so long as they were fuel-efficient and affordable. That plan appears to have backfired, as competitors launched a range of cars with expanded feature lists and improved quality — notably the Chevrolet Cruze, Ford Focus, and Hyundai Elantra.
Note the inclusion of the Cruze as a top car. That hasn't been the case for a GM compact EVER!
If I was employed by SAAB, the day I went to my office or to my factory position and learned that a new SAAB model was going to be a rebadged Chevy Trailblazer. That would've been a queue to impending doom.
I'll add a cloned Subaru was nearly as stupid and a clear sign progress at SAAB was a slim possibility.
Yeah, I was thinking who else might stay...but even die-hard loyalists would have left because of the watering down of the name. You can't sell Trailblazers and FWD Epsilon sedans, and call them Saabs.
Two 2012 Cadillac models -- the CTS sedan and wagon and SRX crossover -- have received a five-star crash test rating from U.S. safety regulators at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
Four was in italics or bold. You'll see. As I said when I first mentioned this here a couple weeks ago, they liked the car, but they commented on the number of recalls/unscheduled dealer visits.
There will be retractions of 'no recalls' or 'you're wrong, here's the May update' when I was talking about an article on the rack in Nov/Dec.
I always tell my kids, it's OK to admit stuff. It doesn't mean one is weak.
The May update on the Sonata shows some things that don't seem to be class-leading...the types of things that would draw howls from you-know-who on this forum about a new GM car. I'm not saying they wouldn't happen in a 2011 GM product...but I'm not the one constantly harping on how vastly superior the domestic GM product is.
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If not for GM, those Saab workers would've been Swedish Fry Chefs 20 years ago. GM bought them some time before they had to join the "new economy" of part-time, minimum wage McWorkers.
I have the Dec. automobile, and indeed they did say they had four recalls. The steering shaft, the overhead console, the transmission control unit, and the fuel door. These were taken care of in 3 visits to the dealer, in addition the also list a problem (possible?) with the engine control unit listed under the repairs done under recalls in the side panel. Two of these recall checks were performed under scheduled visits. They also had to have the sunroof lubed and the glass adjusted under warranty. Overall not a perfect first year but not all that bad either. So up lander is correct they did write that they had four recalls, but they actually had five by their sidebar, but they only had one unscheduled visit to the dealer for the recalls. Hope this helps clear things up. Scott
Thank you Scott. My memory is generally pretty good about car stuff; it's stuff like where my wallet and cell phone are that gives me trouble!
I could live with issues like that in a new car if the servicing dealer is top-notch, but it's hardly class-leading first-year quality...maybe no worse, but not brag-worthy either.
I'm supposed to retract something and apologize to someone, but that's a little fuzzy to me now
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our 1999 Kia Sephia had I believe 1 recall and 1 TSB, a fuel pump wiring kit retrofit of some kind and a evaporative cap replacement IIRC. They were done on one visit, also IIRC.
The 2001 Kia Sportage 4X4 had a faulty fuel door that needed fixing under Warranty and it also needed the evap.fuel cap replaced, that one was a TSB IIRC. The other thing that was a Warranty item was the radiator needed replacing when the small SUV was at about the 17,000 mile mark. An alert Kia mechanic that was doing an oil change noticed some premature staining on it and looked closer and it was corroding way early.
None of these costed a dime, they obviously added up to probably about 2 hours for the Sephia and about 2 or 3 hours on the Sportage 4X4. Oh, one other item went early IMO on the Sportage 4X4...at around 88,000 miles the alternator gave up the ghost on me. That part was about $300, too! That was the only time she stranded me, it was near an Enterprise Rent-A-Car in mid-Missouri when I was going to college there...the car I rented was a 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer 4-dr. sedan...the rest is history, rentals can sometimes introduce us to new loves.
Old GM bean-engineering strikes again. Need to throw out the rules, I'm afraid.
GM has said that it when came to benchmarking vehicles for the next-generation Malibu, the company specifically looked inward with the aim of bettering the old model instead of besting the competition. To that end, the company has succeeded. The 2013 Malibu is better than the 2011 model, but based on our first drive, it still fails to stack up against the ranks of vastly improved D-segment vehicles on the market right now. With an even sharper Ford Fusion baking in the oven and substantially more efficient hybrid models from Hyundai and Toyota, the 2013 Malibu still finds itself trailing the pack.
Let's see how many recalls come from the new 'bu. Only one engine choice and a rushed interior at first sales proves mediocrity is the present reality.
Like it or not, here it comes. Stock at 19 is down 48% this year alone. Japan coming back online and highest inventory in the industry will drag profits in 2012. More bean-counter effect on the way....
It's been a very long time since the midsize market went easy on American automakers, and recent years have conspired to make an uphill sales slog even steeper with a rash of new and redesigned models. Kia and Hyundai have taken up arms by offering buyers the stylish and efficient Optima and Sonata in an effort to dethrone longtime D-segment stalwarts like the Honda Accord and the freshly redesigned Toyota Camry. Not one to back away from a fray, Nissan has been busily sharpening the next-generation Altima to do battle with the rest of the war horses on the field, and Volkswagen has just recently unleashed a new Americanized Passat to riotous praise from the automotive press.
The recalls honestly don't bother me, as long as they don't get *too* ridiculous. Nowadays they'll also recall a car for the nit-pickiest things, too. My 2000 Intrepid go recalled once because they forgot to put instructions on how to attach a baby seat in the owner's manual! Now, I didn't have to take the car to the dealer for that, obviously, and they just sent an insert to keep with the owner's manual, but that still counts as a recall.
What does bother me though, is the rushed nature of the 2013 Malibu. I mean, c'mon. The current model is now FIVE years old. There should be nothing "rushed" about its replacement! At least this time around though, the outgoing Malibu is still pretty competitive, so GM at least aimed high when they designed the current one. In contrast, the 1997 and 2004 Malibus seemed to age poorly, as the competition kept pushing forward.
I think recalls are a nuisance though. My original point was that for all the hyperbole one hears here about Hyundai, that wasn't exactly awe-inspiring first-year quality.
I'm a GM guy, and I absolutely hated the '97-02 Malibu. Not a single thing I thought was impressive about that car. The '04-07, I thought was good packaging in the '78 Malibu mold, and when I had LTZ rentals, with V6 and suede seat inserts, I liked driving them, way better than concurrent Impalas. I liked how the Maxx's rear seats adjusted fore-and-aft. The styling was very middle-of-the-road I think though. And the base models may have had the worst-looking plastic wheelcovers, ever.
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I'm a GM guy, and I absolutely hated the '97-02 Malibu. Not a single thing I thought was impressive about that car.
One thing that impressed me about that generation of Malibu was its space efficiency. I remember checking one out when they first came out. It was on the showroom floor next to a Lumina. Even though the Lumina was bigger, and had more shoulder room, the Malibu just seemed so much better laid out. Legroom, both front and rear, felt better.
But then, a few years later, when I bought my Intrepid, I also looked at a few Malibus they had on the lot (Chevy/Dodge/Isuzu dealer), and just thought to myself, I can't do this. It just seemed cheap, and even the smell of the plastics gave me a headache. In contrast, they had one Dodge Stratus on the lot, a well-equipped model with a sunroof and leather, that I liked a lot. I went with the Intrepid though, because it was roomier, more modern feeling, and had a better fuel economy rating. To be fair though, the Malibus I looked at were all fairly basic, while the Stratus was pretty fully-loaded.
There was a lot to like about the '04-07 Malibu. It actually seemed a touch roomier than the '97-03. I just couldn't get past its styling though. The '97-03 was fairly bland, but inoffensive at least. But the '04-07 just seemed awkward, and something about the style makes it look smaller than it is. Whenever I see one, I swear it looks Civic or Corolla-sized, even though it's a larger car.
What does bother me though, is the rushed nature of the 2013 Malibu. I mean, c'mon. The current model is now FIVE years old. There should be nothing "rushed" about its replacement!
I agree. Just wait until it's right. Though to be fair the bankruptcy probably disrupted development. Still, wait 6 months and get it right. I have a hard time believing they couldn't at least have the turbo 4 available. That's not a new engine unless they are developing a new 2.0L turbo too.
Recalls are a non issue to me unless they are excessive or require the car to be flat bedded off for immediate repair.
There was if you were blind. I can't get past the lack of style in that car. But if I was in a pinch and price was key, I'd consider one used.
Though like Andre mentioned, GM's electric steering of that era would be hard for me to deal with. I can barely tolerate the electric PS in my wife's Taurus. To me it just has an unconnected, unauthentic feel to it. Kind of like using a wheel controller on an Xbox.
Let's see how many recalls come from the new 'bu. Only one engine choice and a rushed interior at first sales proves mediocrity is the present reality.
Like it or not, here it comes. Stock at 19 is down 48% this year alone. Japan coming back online and highest inventory in the industry will drag profits in 2012. More bean-counter effect on the way....
Well one thing is for sure, there aren't many losers in the family sedan category and there are several very good options. The 200 seems to be a step or two behind.
Looks like the 2013 model year will have a lot of redesigned/refreshed models. Might be looking at a new Accord and Altima, and will have a new Fusion. So getting sales will be as tough, if not tougher than ever.
Still looks like everyone will be following the Camry though. I'm already seeing the '12 models everywhere.
I do think the '04 Malibu looked pretty good from the rear. It was the first car I can think of that started to actually reintroduce chrome trim up front and in back.
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I only care about the recalls that involve safety - like brake or steering issues, engines dying while on the freeway, or suspension. The number of recalls is insignificant compared to WHAT the recall is about. If the recall is about a cupholder - big deal; it's fixed when you get the oil changed.
Regarding the Hyundai or whomever, vs. GM debate: the problem as I see is that there even is a debate! GM and the rest of the D3 had at least a 5-10 year advantage over the world, a few decades ago. There shouldn't today be a debate over whether a Passat, Malibu, or Sonata is better. GM screwed up big time by not staying hungry and maintaining it's advantages. Laziness and greed of all involved in the D3 levelled the playing field.
Now that GM no longer has a price, styling, technology, power, or economy advantage over its competitors, it's merely putting out "C - average" vehicles for it's U.S. #1 customers, or Daddy always bought Impalas customers.
Everyone really needs to ask themselves why once again, a foreign manufacturer is MT Car of the Year - a VW sedan that starts at $20K. Or you get a nice V-6 or an efficient diesel. What is the new Malibu going to start at, and why is it late to the game again?
I have the Dec. automobile, and indeed they did say they had four recalls. The steering shaft, the overhead console, the transmission control unit, and the fuel door. These were taken care of in 3 visits to the dealer...
First, thanks for looking that up for us.
Now, let's make several corrections. 4 recalls? 5?
1. steering shaft - YES! This is the one and only actual recall 2. the overhead console - TSB only, not a recall 3. the transmission control unit - no recall exists for this, TSB? 4. fuel door - TSB only, and their car was not even affected 5. ECU? - if there was a 5th potential issue, it's still not a recall
So 1 recall, a few TSBs, some that did not affect their car at all.
Let's remember the same year Fusion has 22 TSBs.
We can throw Automobile under the bus for that gaffe.
they only had one unscheduled visit to the dealer for the recalls
Same amount of stops as someone's Chevrolet Uplander per post # 20007.
This is really the important part, because the complaint was the hassle of having to make 4 unscheduled stops at the dealer. 2 of the TSBs were done at the scheduled 22,500 mile service, and remember, one of those did not even affect their Sonata!
"I think it's far more likely that when they're documenting items for a long-term article, a bunch of motorheads will get the info right, over whatever's listed on a government website"
Remember, Automobile listed 3 recalls, 2 of them for the same thing. Those "motorheads" failed to use their own source, and made several errors.
Scott - thanks again for helping us make those many corrections.
Also, does Hyundai send out letters for TSB's? I've never gotten a letter about a TSB, only for a recall. Typically, TSB's are just to help the technician troubleshoot an item that has been seen repeatedly. In other words, not every car gets seen by the dealer for a TSB. Their staffers who lived with the car, seem to see the "TSB"'s they experienced, as a recall.
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Bottom line: do you think that is way-ahead-of-the-rest first year reliability?
You dodge the real question like an experienced politician, why did you need to exaggerate?
No one made that claim of way-ahead perfection, the guy doesn't even own a Hyundai, it's a Kia, with zero recalls BTW.
You made it seem like a Hyundai owner would have to stop at a dealer every few months to fix things. One unscheduled stop is probably about average, I'd say.
I've never had a car with four recalls, so I wouldn't expect to get four distinct issues corrected at one stop. What is Hyundai's recommended servicing...7500 miles like everybody else's?
Bottom line, I said the mag said four recalls. You were way over-the-line in your response. I mean, read them again..it's nutcase stuff.
Not egregious like flatly saying "GM doesn't honor pre-bankruptcy warranties", or "New Corvette issue" when it wasn't, or implying that only uneducated/unsophisticated buyers would consider GM. You won't see comments like that here from me or dave or lemko...except in response. I'd be surprised if you'd see someone with a handle of 'anythingbuthyundai' over on their forums so often. It's really weird, by most any standard.
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You misrepresented the hassles of first year ownership. One unscheduled stop, not four.
That's a huge difference. And you think I'm the nutcase?
If we average the stops by 3 sources (Automobile, Inside Line, and Autoweek) they made a total of 2 unscheduled dealer visits among those 3 cars, and average of 0.67 stops.
No nightmare scenarios like you painted.
Admit it, you got carried away.
Any how, we can agree to disagree and let this thread move on.
And lastly, when it gets posted here about four recalls, and absolutely nothing is said by the Hyundai folks, when you, I , the moderator, and the universe knows that if it were a GM car with that record, it'd be all over here...and I doubt these posters posted anything about the four recalls over on a Hyundai forum, it all comes down...again...to balance, of which there's very little here.
Fire away at will, for that is my last comment on the subject.
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I'm still having trouble figuring out how a faulty rear spindle rod isn't something that would be covered by the express warranty. Especially for those owners who made claims during the warranty period. New GM agreed to honor express warranties on Old GM cars.
And especially since Old GM recalled and fixed those on the cop Impalas.
This seems different to me than a suit against Old GM for a design defect, which apparently is New GMs defense.
Comments
As always, anyone can believe whatever they want. I know what I saw.
So that's a cross between a couch on wheels and a couch with performance tires? :confuse:
Regards,
OW
Four is possible, but 4 TSBs, or 1 recall and 3 TSBs. I just can't believe 4 recalls, or 4 unscheduled dealer visits for that matter (after June). Maybe it was wishful thinking and you got a little carried away?
Autoweek (sounds similar) had a long-term Sonata, but it spend zero days out of service.
Inside Line's Sonata spent 1 day out of service for the steering recall.
Some one who reads this thread must have the December issue, c'mon folks....Buehler?
I get to many mags as it is. I do read Automobile at the library I visit weekly while my daughters are across the street taking there piano lessons. I'll be there Wednesday and I'll look for myself.
Like I said, I do not hate GM but I will not buy their products until they are the best. There are many holes in their current line up and are playing catch up and will continue to play catch up for many years to come.
It's hard to adeptly maneuver a battleship that bought a torpedo to their engine room. Saab represents a continuing bailing of Old GM. Like it or not, there is still more junk in the trunk.
Regards,
OW
Sorry, but it's true.
Also, I never wanted any UAW member to loose their jobs but any employees that relies on an entity such as the UAW instead of their own capabilities will reap the consequences.
Change hurts unless you completely believe change is good.
Regards,
OW
Sorry, but it's true.
No question. They should be thankful for collecting a check from SAAB as long as they did. Hope they use the last one wisely.
We already had heard inklings that Honda was fast-tracking a refresh for the new Civic, with a mid-cycle update now expected in 2013 rather than spring 2014. American Honda President John Mendel has admitted the Civic has been poorly received by critics and consumers, and previously said the company was “appropriately energized” to revamp the car.
Ito reportedly explained that the 2012 Civic was under development during the American financial crisis, which led Honda executives to believe Americans would accept lower-quality cars, so long as they were fuel-efficient and affordable. That plan appears to have backfired, as competitors launched a range of cars with expanded feature lists and improved quality — notably the Chevrolet Cruze, Ford Focus, and Hyundai Elantra.
Note the inclusion of the Cruze as a top car. That hasn't been the case for a GM compact EVER!
Win for GM.
Honda Admits Civic and Other Cars are “Boring,” Plans Refreshed Models for 2013
Regards,
OW
I'll add a cloned Subaru was nearly as stupid and a clear sign progress at SAAB was a slim possibility.
The smart ones left long ago. Saab has not been Saab for a long time.
Absolutely, unless some were paid obscene amounts to stay.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20111219/OEM11/111219873#ixzz1h1GhkJS4
Today the only "job security" is for our should-be-hanged upper executive class.
yep
There will be retractions of 'no recalls' or 'you're wrong, here's the May update' when I was talking about an article on the rack in Nov/Dec.
I always tell my kids, it's OK to admit stuff. It doesn't mean one is weak.
The May update on the Sonata shows some things that don't seem to be class-leading...the types of things that would draw howls from you-know-who on this forum about a new GM car. I'm not saying they wouldn't happen in a 2011 GM product...but I'm not the one constantly harping on how vastly superior the domestic GM product is.
Scott
Too bad GM will suffer from a profitability standpoint because all of this.
Regards,
OW
I could live with issues like that in a new car if the servicing dealer is top-notch, but it's hardly class-leading first-year quality...maybe no worse, but not brag-worthy either.
I'm supposed to retract something and apologize to someone, but that's a little fuzzy to me now
You mean they WEREN'T born from jets? Say it aint so!
The 2001 Kia Sportage 4X4 had a faulty fuel door that needed fixing under Warranty and it also needed the evap.fuel cap replaced, that one was a TSB IIRC. The other thing that was a Warranty item was the radiator needed replacing when the small SUV was at about the 17,000 mile mark. An alert Kia mechanic that was doing an oil change noticed some premature staining on it and looked closer and it was corroding way early.
None of these costed a dime, they obviously added up to probably about 2 hours for the Sephia and about 2 or 3 hours on the Sportage 4X4. Oh, one other item went early IMO on the Sportage 4X4...at around 88,000 miles the alternator gave up the ghost on me. That part was about $300, too! That was the only time she stranded me, it was near an Enterprise Rent-A-Car in mid-Missouri when I was going to college there...the car I rented was a 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer 4-dr. sedan...the rest is history, rentals can sometimes introduce us to new loves.
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GM has said that it when came to benchmarking vehicles for the next-generation Malibu, the company specifically looked inward with the aim of bettering the old model instead of besting the competition. To that end, the company has succeeded. The 2013 Malibu is better than the 2011 model, but based on our first drive, it still fails to stack up against the ranks of vastly improved D-segment vehicles on the market right now. With an even sharper Ford Fusion baking in the oven and substantially more efficient hybrid models from Hyundai and Toyota, the 2013 Malibu still finds itself trailing the pack.
Let's see how many recalls come from the new 'bu. Only one engine choice and a rushed interior at first sales proves mediocrity is the present reality.
Like it or not, here it comes. Stock at 19 is down 48% this year alone. Japan coming back online and highest inventory in the industry will drag profits in 2012. More bean-counter effect on the way....
Regards,
OW
If the Cruze has had fewer recalls than the Sonata, what makes you think the Malibu wouldn't? Just sayin'.
I firmly believe that things are never as bad as some people say, and things are never as great as some people say. Reality is usually in the middle.
I'm just sayin' let's see if the rushed nature of the 'bu is better than the comp re: recalls. Hope it's zero.
'Bu Eco
My poiint was they are aiming low.
It's been a very long time since the midsize market went easy on American automakers, and recent years have conspired to make an uphill sales slog even steeper with a rash of new and redesigned models. Kia and Hyundai have taken up arms by offering buyers the stylish and efficient Optima and Sonata in an effort to dethrone longtime D-segment stalwarts like the Honda Accord and the freshly redesigned Toyota Camry. Not one to back away from a fray, Nissan has been busily sharpening the next-generation Altima to do battle with the rest of the war horses on the field, and Volkswagen has just recently unleashed a new Americanized Passat to riotous praise from the automotive press.
Regards,
OW
What does bother me though, is the rushed nature of the 2013 Malibu. I mean, c'mon. The current model is now FIVE years old. There should be nothing "rushed" about its replacement! At least this time around though, the outgoing Malibu is still pretty competitive, so GM at least aimed high when they designed the current one. In contrast, the 1997 and 2004 Malibus seemed to age poorly, as the competition kept pushing forward.
I'm a GM guy, and I absolutely hated the '97-02 Malibu. Not a single thing I thought was impressive about that car. The '04-07, I thought was good packaging in the '78 Malibu mold, and when I had LTZ rentals, with V6 and suede seat inserts, I liked driving them, way better than concurrent Impalas. I liked how the Maxx's rear seats adjusted fore-and-aft. The styling was very middle-of-the-road I think though. And the base models may have had the worst-looking plastic wheelcovers, ever.
One thing that impressed me about that generation of Malibu was its space efficiency. I remember checking one out when they first came out. It was on the showroom floor next to a Lumina. Even though the Lumina was bigger, and had more shoulder room, the Malibu just seemed so much better laid out. Legroom, both front and rear, felt better.
But then, a few years later, when I bought my Intrepid, I also looked at a few Malibus they had on the lot (Chevy/Dodge/Isuzu dealer), and just thought to myself, I can't do this. It just seemed cheap, and even the smell of the plastics gave me a headache. In contrast, they had one Dodge Stratus on the lot, a well-equipped model with a sunroof and leather, that I liked a lot. I went with the Intrepid though, because it was roomier, more modern feeling, and had a better fuel economy rating. To be fair though, the Malibus I looked at were all fairly basic, while the Stratus was pretty fully-loaded.
There was a lot to like about the '04-07 Malibu. It actually seemed a touch roomier than the '97-03. I just couldn't get past its styling though. The '97-03 was fairly bland, but inoffensive at least. But the '04-07 just seemed awkward, and something about the style makes it look smaller than it is. Whenever I see one, I swear it looks Civic or Corolla-sized, even though it's a larger car.
I agree. Just wait until it's right. Though to be fair the bankruptcy probably disrupted development. Still, wait 6 months and get it right. I have a hard time believing they couldn't at least have the turbo 4 available. That's not a new engine unless they are developing a new 2.0L turbo too.
Recalls are a non issue to me unless they are excessive or require the car to be flat bedded off for immediate repair.
There was if you were blind. I can't get past the lack of style in that car. But if I was in a pinch and price was key, I'd consider one used.
Though like Andre mentioned, GM's electric steering of that era would be hard for me to deal with. I can barely tolerate the electric PS in my wife's Taurus. To me it just has an unconnected, unauthentic feel to it. Kind of like using a wheel controller on an Xbox.
Like it or not, here it comes. Stock at 19 is down 48% this year alone. Japan coming back online and highest inventory in the industry will drag profits in 2012. More bean-counter effect on the way....
Well one thing is for sure, there aren't many losers in the family sedan category and there are several very good options. The 200 seems to be a step or two behind.
Looks like the 2013 model year will have a lot of redesigned/refreshed models. Might be looking at a new Accord and Altima, and will have a new Fusion. So getting sales will be as tough, if not tougher than ever.
Still looks like everyone will be following the Camry though. I'm already seeing the '12 models everywhere.
I only care about the recalls that involve safety - like brake or steering issues, engines dying while on the freeway, or suspension. The number of recalls is insignificant compared to WHAT the recall is about. If the recall is about a cupholder - big deal; it's fixed when you get the oil changed.
Regarding the Hyundai or whomever, vs. GM debate: the problem as I see is that there even is a debate! GM and the rest of the D3 had at least a 5-10 year advantage over the world, a few decades ago. There shouldn't today be a debate over whether a Passat, Malibu, or Sonata is better. GM screwed up big time by not staying hungry and maintaining it's advantages. Laziness and greed of all involved in the D3 levelled the playing field.
Now that GM no longer has a price, styling, technology, power, or economy advantage over its competitors, it's merely putting out "C - average" vehicles for it's U.S. #1 customers, or Daddy always bought Impalas customers.
Everyone really needs to ask themselves why once again, a foreign manufacturer is MT Car of the Year - a VW sedan that starts at $20K. Or you get a nice V-6 or an efficient diesel. What is the new Malibu going to start at, and why is it late to the game again?
First, thanks for looking that up for us.
Now, let's make several corrections. 4 recalls? 5?
1. steering shaft - YES! This is the one and only actual recall
2. the overhead console - TSB only, not a recall
3. the transmission control unit - no recall exists for this, TSB?
4. fuel door - TSB only, and their car was not even affected
5. ECU? - if there was a 5th potential issue, it's still not a recall
So 1 recall, a few TSBs, some that did not affect their car at all.
Let's remember the same year Fusion has 22 TSBs.
We can throw Automobile under the bus for that gaffe.
they only had one unscheduled visit to the dealer for the recalls
Same amount of stops as someone's Chevrolet Uplander per post # 20007.
This is really the important part, because the complaint was the hassle of having to make 4 unscheduled stops at the dealer. 2 of the TSBs were done at the scheduled 22,500 mile service, and remember, one of those did not even affect their Sonata!
"I think it's far more likely that when they're documenting items for a long-term article, a bunch of motorheads will get the info right, over whatever's listed on a government website"
Remember, Automobile listed 3 recalls, 2 of them for the same thing. Those "motorheads" failed to use their own source, and made several errors.
Scott - thanks again for helping us make those many corrections.
Car mags make mistakes all the time.
Sonata had 3 recalls, Cruze actually had 4.
For the Cruze they include:
"SHOULD THE STEERING WHEEL DETACH FROM THE STEERING COLUMN WHILE DRIVING..."
Is that bad?
Here is a separate issue:
"THIS COULD ALLOW THE SHAFTS TO SEPARATE, RESULTING IN THE LOSS OF STEERING"
Similar to the only serious recall the Sonata had, to be fair.
"VEHICLE COULD ROLL AWAY AFTER THE DRIVER HAS EXITED THE VEHICLE"
OK, so Cruze 4, Sonata 3, and the Cruze's recalls appear to be a bit more serious.
You keep pounding on a v1.0 vehicle when Chevy's issues were similar or worse.
And that is all you really needed to say.
When you pounded it in about 4 unscheduled stops, well, that was embellishing.
You dodge the real question like an experienced politician, why did you need to exaggerate?
No one made that claim of way-ahead perfection, the guy doesn't even own a Hyundai, it's a Kia, with zero recalls BTW.
You made it seem like a Hyundai owner would have to stop at a dealer every few months to fix things. One unscheduled stop is probably about average, I'd say.
Bottom line, I said the mag said four recalls. You were way over-the-line in your response. I mean, read them again..it's nutcase stuff.
Not egregious like flatly saying "GM doesn't honor pre-bankruptcy warranties", or "New Corvette issue" when it wasn't, or implying that only uneducated/unsophisticated buyers would consider GM. You won't see comments like that here from me or dave or lemko...except in response. I'd be surprised if you'd see someone with a handle of 'anythingbuthyundai' over on their forums so often. It's really weird, by most any standard.
I seriously doubt they send out letters for TSBs.
That's a huge difference. And you think I'm the nutcase?
If we average the stops by 3 sources (Automobile, Inside Line, and Autoweek) they made a total of 2 unscheduled dealer visits among those 3 cars, and average of 0.67 stops.
No nightmare scenarios like you painted.
Admit it, you got carried away.
Any how, we can agree to disagree and let this thread move on.
Fire away at will, for that is my last comment on the subject.
And especially since Old GM recalled and fixed those on the cop Impalas.
This seems different to me than a suit against Old GM for a design defect, which apparently is New GMs defense.
Maybe we'll get an answer by next August.