Do you deny that there are GM "haters" who post repeatedly here? Come on. With handles like 'anythingbutgm', for example? Brings up repeatedly a recall of 3,996 Cadillacs, but recalls of 700K Toyotas bring no comment whatsoever. Don't give me the 'this is a GM thread' stuff; look through here--competitive products are frequently mentioned in other ways. As I always say, 'balance' is a good thing.
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JDP knocked the Hummer for getting poor gas mileage, owners in their survey complained, so that lowered its "initial quality" score.
That would not count against the Hummer in CR, however, because it's not a problem that would ding the Hummer in reliability. It would hurt its test score, sure, but not reliability ratings.
Like I said, they measure different things. Another example - Mini Cooper cup holders were of a poor design. Reflected in JDP, but not in CR reliability.
The key thing with residual values is that they are based on MSRP, not the actual price paid. This is a huge factor when it comes to cost of ownership, because you can get steep discounts on any given car, or pay a markup on a new/hot model that is in short supply.
Scenario A: PT Cruiser. Let's say you were the dope who just had to have the very first one and paid $25,000 on Ebay for it. Let's toss out a pretty good residual of 60% after 3 years. But that's 60% of the MSRP, which was around $15,000. So in 3 years it was worth $9000, but if you paid $25k then it depreciated $16k compared to your price paid, and you took a bath on that deal.
Scenario B: to avoid any bias whatsoever, let's use the same exact car. Let's say you were patient and waited until prices settled down, bought one a year or two later, when there were discounts. So let's say the MSRP was still around $16k, but you negotiated $14k. Even if the residual had dropped to 50%, since it wasn't new and popular any more, it's still worth $7500 after 3 years. So it depreciated only $6500 compared to your price paid.
The guy in scenario A has higher residuals but still spent more than double.
MSRP is a fictitious number anyway, just a guideline that is rarely followed. Hot models sell for more, most everything else sells for a lot less.
Generally speaking, a high residual is good, and means your car will hold its value, but let's not kid ourselves - what matters is the difference between the price you actually pay and the residual value when you sell it. The former is actually more important, due to the time value of money.
This is why a used car can be a solid value - you're past the steep part of the depreciation curve.
Time it well and a new car can also be a good value, if you get an end-of-model-year rebate and pay a much lower price (that's what uplanderguy did).
Actually, the SS and Medicare recipients are getting amounts far in excess of what they paid into the system.
Overall, however, we are in general agreement.
When the country's revenue stream is based largely upon an environment in which only 50% actually contribute funds, yet all get to vote (indirectly, at least) on what/how much is spent, it's a given that the system is doomed to failure.
Did I purchase a new car In the last 9 months? No, because in the last 3 years I have purchased 1 pickup and 3 cars. All new.
As for your "status symbol" dig, I bought a 328i because I wanted a hard-top convertible, and BMW offered the best solution to my needs for that vehicle.
You know, many folks bought 335D's for the same reason.... It was the best fit for their particular needs.
But, I'm just doing what you claim everyone should be doing... Buying local. BMW's manufacturing plant is less that 10 miles from where I live, and BMW has done exponentially by a factor of 1000's more for upstate SC than any of the big 3 ever did.
As for the "haters" .... Accept it. Every forum has them. This one isn't any different. If a poster has a valid argument, then respond if you wish. If its a crank post, ignore it.
I can tell you this: If every car buyer had the experience with his vehicle that I did when I bought a first-year run S10 Blazer, GM would be nothing more today than a distant memory in some college business instructional classroom.
I don't hold it against GM. I won the lemon of the year lotto on mine, but all manufacturers make lemons. When I buy a car today, I give every manufacturer a new look. The GM car of 1985 isn't the GM car today. Same goes for all makes.
If I'm eating a nice meal at a restaurant, and the waiter ask me how thing are, I tell him the truth. If the steak was as tough as leather, I tell him. If it was tender and cooked to perfection, I tell him. It does no one any good to only mention the successes and ignore the failures.
That may or may not fit into YOUR view of reality, or it may. Your choice.
Just because I was pissed at GM over the Sonic brake issue didn't mean I thought GM was trash. I was critical because a few burps like that can do great harm today.
Those are slip ups that the big-3 can ill afford.
If you have ever managed anyone, then you know you keep your eye on the guy who isn't performing far more than on the fellows who are exceeding expectations.
Some will always complain. My suggestion is to move forward and ignore it. Bringing up others' failures only makes you look defensive. And, using your "team player" analogy, the defense rarely scores many points.
Had to chuckle at this. Not exactly the same 'buying local' as I enjoyed doing, but hey...it's a free market out there.
It may look 'defensive' to you, but some of the most ridiculous, lopsided, and even erroneous, comments get posted here. Of course, once something is in print, anybody else that sees it tends to view it as 'fact', which is why I have a hard time letting stupid comments go unchallenged. Opinions are fine, but so much stuff that passes for fact here is utterly laughable.
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Using the resale example, let's say you line up Malibu vs. Camry, and the lease residual says the Camry will be worth 60% and the Malibu just 55%. I'm just tossing out numbers for arguments' sake.
Say you look at a $20k MSRP sample of each one. The Camry would be worth $12k and the 'bu just $11k, BUT.....
If you can get a $1000 more off the price of the 'bu, it's still a better buy.
I remember you got something like $3k off, wasn't it? That's why I said back then, and would reiterate now, your purchase was a better deal than a new Camry would have been. Camrys were getting $500 cash back and some haggling, but no where near enough discounts to match the deal you got on your car.
If the discount is deeper, enough to offset the additional residual value, then the car with the big discount/lower residual is still the better deal.
Now, forget everything I said, and buy the car you prefer. :shades:
Funny how some have a dual definition of what buying local happens to mean.
Here, the BMW plant alone employes over 8000 people. Include the associated suppliers, and you easily exceed 25,000.
It's the largest employer in the upstate of SC.
But, just to show I'm not biased, I also bought a 2005 Aveo, made in Korea.
And, I have a Z-4 coupe made 10 miles from me.
Which one...the Z-4, or the Aveo, would YOU say helped the local economy more?
Do you honestly believe no UAW members or white collar big-3 employees shop at Wal-mart?
Where are the big-3 assembly plants in SC?
The big-3 completely abandoned SC as a supplier of textile products and proceeded to purchase those materials from.... Can you guess where?
Like I said, I try to buy local. To me, local is where the local economy is supported by local manufacturers.
GE has a turbine manufacturing plant here as well, and while I may not be in the market for a gas turbine, I give them an initial preferential look when buying appliances.
It may look 'defensive' to you, but some of the most ridiculous, lopsided, and even erroneous, comments get posted here.
Here's some erroneous comment: "Cadillac is the New World Standard" Fact: Cadillac is largely a North American brand, just starting to grow overseas. GM sold just under 200,000 last year, making it the 52nd best-selling brand in 2011.
GM is the largest selling car company in the world. Nice.
GM 2011 Profit = $7.6B VW 2011 Profit = $20.1B
GM is not the most profitable car company in the world.
Meanwhile, up on the Executive Level at RenCen, the GM strategy makes a mockery out of one-off car buys to support local workers...
General Motors Co. (GM) is planning to shift more of its production to low-cost countries including Poland, Russia, China, India, Mexico and Brazil, Der Spiegel reported, citing a company strategy paper.
As the automaker’s output is increasing, GM plans to build 80 percent of the additional units in low-cost countries, the magazine said in an e-mailed preview of its article.
By 2016, GM plans to export an additional 300,000 vehicles from factories in Mexico, Korea and China to Europe, Spiegel said.
GM working those tax dollars just fine, wouldn't you say?
Opel Insignia (our Regal) doesn't even compete with the 3er where both cars are made. I don't know if I can damn the car itself, or just dumb GM marketing and model lineups.
To my eyes, the Regal looks better than most of those cars, but even I think it looks small from the back. A LaCrosse would fit my needs better, but then, I'm a family-car kind-of guy. Speed through slaloms, etc., is a snooze to me.
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I'd suggest the latter. For the price of the GS, why would you not buy a 328i F30?
Like the BMW, the Buick uses a direct-injected 2.0-liter turbo four. Yet unlike the 328i, the Regal pumps out 30 more horsepower and 40 extra lb-ft of torque for -- drumroll, please -- a tops-in-test 270 horses and 295 lb-ft. Unfortunately, that output advantage didn't translate to the track, where the six-speed-auto GS was 0.6 second slower from 0 to 60 (6.2 seconds) and 0.8 second tardier through the quarter mile (15.0 seconds at 93.1 mph) than the dragstrip champ eight-speed 328i. So, it's not quicker, but perhaps it's more fuel-efficient? Nope. Per the EPA's fuel-economy test, the BMW ekes out 24/36 mpg city/highway to the Buick's 20/32. Moreover, our observed fuel economy placed the 328i (16.8 mpg) mid-pack and the Regal dead last (14.6), a full 2.0 mpg behind the A4, the second-thirstiest vehicle.
At $38,565 ($35,720 base), the Regal GS resides in the economical half of the group, yet includes navigation ($1145), power sunroof ($1000), leather interior, satellite radio, Bluetooth, pushbutton start, and dual-zone auto A/C. The lack of a backup camera, especially given the high rear shelf, seems an oversight. And please, please, lose the gaudy chrome inserts in the steering wheel and around the gearshift. As the most powerful entry -- not to mention one of the newest -- the Regal needed to be more than an apparent strong value with flash. It needed to live up to its brawny specs and bulldog looks. As its finish illustrates, it didn't.
In Germany, the Regal equivalent is kind of like their Malibu. It isn't meant to really be sporty (although they do offer a 325hp AWD variant). It's smaller because the roads are smaller and many people are too. Here, the Lacrosse is probably more car for the money. I don't think it has been marketed properly here.
You'd spend 10K more for a similarly equipped BMW to start with, and to be fair, the Regal basis is a few years old now where the BMW is brand new. But yeah, it loses out now - the OPC version should come over to wow some people.
Probably half well equiped but you'd be getting the best car on the road.
This car rings the bell to the tune of $50,560, by far the highest as-tested price of the competition. Shock! Horror! You all will cancel your subscriptions en masse, of course the most expensive car won, because we're all idiots, etc.
Yes, yes, yes. We know. However, unlike the other seven competitors, this particular car was driven away from the U.S. 3 Series launch BMW held in San Francisco where the cars were (of course) trimmed out with all the fixings. The point I want to make is that, using BMW's online configurator, you can spec out a mechanically identical 328i Sport Line for $41,095 that would have beat up on and choked out the competition just like the one in our test did.
The Regal. I don't know if the exact models we receive are the best for the brand, or if it should be a Buick at all.
Lacrosse seems to be marketed as well as I can expect from GM - who as a whole is not the most skilled in salesmanship. Lacrosse seems like a very nice car.
For years, the big-3 have attempted to field cars and/or vehicles in practically every segment.
I wonder if we may not have reached the point where decisions need to be made based more on expected profitability rather than filling a niche?
Certainly, truck sales have been the most durable segment for the domestics. And, I've often heard the argument that the domestics need to have a "complete solution" to the entire range of vehicles, even though Chrysler was the first domestic to realize the impractibility of doing that.
VW's foray into pickup trucks was a no-show, yet VW is doing well in the US with no truck options.
I just wonder if maybe its time for the domestics, particularly GM, to say "No, we don't really want to participate in a particular area, because we can no longer afford the option of attempting to provide a vehicle for every solution?"
Was it equipped the same as the Regal, however? As they don't compete in the real world, maybe they shouldn't here either. 30% price difference is gigantic.
I saw one on the showroom floor of the local dealer for 55K+. Not in the same league as the Regal, which in the home market is just a nice ordinary mid sized FWD sedan.
If they don't offer something which can compete, they should certainly stay out - it is just a waste of money. Regal is not a 3er competitor, the parent car never has been and never will be.
I agree, and to some extent they do - GM no longer markets a minivan, for instance.
You have to ask, what does Buick stand for? Big, comfortable sedans? Small sedans? Sport sedans? The Regal, LaCrosse, and Verano don't seem like they would be from the same brand at all.
Here in the South, at least, Buick is perceived as an old person's car.
Here in the west, too.
On the rare occasions I see a Buick sedan on the road, when I get a look at the driver they are retiree age. Or somebody younger but then the car has dealer plates, which means they work at the dealer.
Not well at all. They move about 700 per month, meanwhile Dodge moves 10-13,000.
May as well not exist. Each VW dealer sells probably about 1 per month and they have to train all their staff to know about a virtually non-existent product.
Here in the South, at least, Buick is perceived as an old person's car.
That's the general populace's perception here in NE OH, as well...usually the Century model of the late '90's and early '00's. I actually think those are a more stylish car than the same year Tauruses, which were probably the closest thing to compete with them in the domestic market.
If I liked the car, that perception wouldn't bother me a bit. People in my hometown who bought the last few years of Studebakers were older folks, too, and I love those cars. I tend to thumb my nose at general perceptions, though. I won't belabor the point, since we've discussed it here before, but I hate the old saw "perception is reality". I know people (mostly at work) for whom perception is more important than reality.
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Like you, I've never bought a car, or anything else, based upon "image". If the image came with it, great, otherwise my philosophy has always been "substance and comfort over style", which is sometimes a detriment to me when my wife thinks I should be wearing a necktie... And I don't.
But there can be no question that image sells.
I'd bet all of us here have seen folks buying far more car than they could comfortably afford, just for the image...
Some of the newer Buick stuff looks pretty good like LaCrosse and Enclave. I believe I read they have actually lowered their average buyer age to something a bit above 50. Not bad when you consider it used to be in the 60's just a few years ago. Maybe it will keep coming down? However, GM needs to let up on the accelerator with their pricing. Enclave is getting ridiculous and at this point in their attempted ressurection, buyers aren't gonna give you a price close to Lexus, BMW or Audi. Of course, marketeers forget that people in their 50's generally have a lot more discretionary dollars than younger buyers, so I doubt Buick will ever be a "young" person's vehicle..
You know, I could be dead wrong here, but this is my take on Buick's image perception...
Ask most folks about the average age of the owner of a new Ford Focus, Taurus and Mustang, and you'll probably get three different age groups.
Ask most folks about the average age of a Chevrolet Sonic, Impala and Camaro owner, and you'll probably get three different age groups.
Ask most folks about the average age of a Buick Lacrosse, Enclave, Verano and Regal buyer and you'll get something along the lines of "that's an old man's car". I don't think the model will make any significant difference in the age estimates given.
When I was a kid, mention Cadillac and you would have gotten the same response. No more. Cadillac expanded its appeal across a much wider age group, and I suspect the coming ATS will appeal to a much younger, mobile, economically successful type than any Buick.
Buick can change the image. It just needs to re-brand itself to be more appealing to a wider audience.
I'm not sure Caddy is a young person's car, although I agree that they have a more youthful image with some of their new stuff. I'm not as optimistic on the ATS because those who tend to lease near lux in that price range want status and right now at least, I don't see ATS having the same cachet with them as say a BMW 3 series. Meanwhile, the older buyers who have the coin will likely opt for something bigger. I got an upgrade to a CTS last summer. It wasn't a bad car and I liked its drivetrain, but its rear seating and trunk were kind of small, so I'm wondering how those accomodations will be in the smaller ATS? Whatever happens, this will be interesting marketing and perhaps a case study some day.
The Buick base price was $35,720. Test car was $38,565.
The BMW base price was $35, 795. As tested $50,560.
But, as was also in the article, they configured a BMW for $41,095 that "would have beat up and choked out the competition...".
I agree that I can't see many potential buyers cross shopping a 3 series and a Buick Regal.
I don't think it's much of a surprise the BMW was first among the 8 cars. But there are 6 other cars that also placed above the Regal which are in a comparable price range. Granted from the article, it appears the Infinity and Regal are a toss up for last place.
Virtually no one will be going from a BMW dealer to Buick, GM hopes that will happen with the ATS.
The car which impressed me the most is the Volvo S60 (sure I really like the 3 series, but man does it get pricey fast). I find the S60 to be good looking and reasonably priced. For $38k you can get a S60 T6 with 300HP and AWD. The only downer is I don't think a manual is available.
This is why a used car can be a solid value - you're past the steep part of the depreciation curve.
That's why I haven't purchased a new vehicle in over 10 years. I don't know if I'll ever buy another brand new vehicle. Though right now, used car values are to the point it's worth looking at new.
It wasn't a bad car and I liked its drivetrain, but its rear seating and trunk were kind of small, so I'm wondering how those accomodations will be in the smaller ATS?
Ever sat in the back of a 3 series with a normal sized driver up front?
The CTS is a tweener. IIRC, the ATS will close in size to the CTS and the next CTS will move up to 5 series dimensions.
Comments
Looks like your your Yukon is getting noticed. :shades:
From that article, I better rethink my purchase of a Porsche, too.
At least this article is current, not three years old like the Corvette recall you posted.
http://www.mycarstats.com/content/auto_news.asp
Couldn't help notice you didn't mention this one.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2012/02/23/026382-recall-2012-honda-pilot-and- - -acura-mdx.html
As long as other makes get compared to GM here, which is fine, we may as well be comparing recent recalls of other makes to GM's as well.
An example serves best...
JDP knocked the Hummer for getting poor gas mileage, owners in their survey complained, so that lowered its "initial quality" score.
That would not count against the Hummer in CR, however, because it's not a problem that would ding the Hummer in reliability. It would hurt its test score, sure, but not reliability ratings.
Like I said, they measure different things. Another example - Mini Cooper cup holders were of a poor design. Reflected in JDP, but not in CR reliability.
Scenario A: PT Cruiser. Let's say you were the dope who just had to have the very first one and paid $25,000 on Ebay for it. Let's toss out a pretty good residual of 60% after 3 years. But that's 60% of the MSRP, which was around $15,000. So in 3 years it was worth $9000, but if you paid $25k then it depreciated $16k compared to your price paid, and you took a bath on that deal.
Scenario B: to avoid any bias whatsoever, let's use the same exact car. Let's say you were patient and waited until prices settled down, bought one a year or two later, when there were discounts. So let's say the MSRP was still around $16k, but you negotiated $14k. Even if the residual had dropped to 50%, since it wasn't new and popular any more, it's still worth $7500 after 3 years. So it depreciated only $6500 compared to your price paid.
The guy in scenario A has higher residuals but still spent more than double.
MSRP is a fictitious number anyway, just a guideline that is rarely followed. Hot models sell for more, most everything else sells for a lot less.
Generally speaking, a high residual is good, and means your car will hold its value, but let's not kid ourselves - what matters is the difference between the price you actually pay and the residual value when you sell it. The former is actually more important, due to the time value of money.
This is why a used car can be a solid value - you're past the steep part of the depreciation curve.
Time it well and a new car can also be a good value, if you get an end-of-model-year rebate and pay a much lower price (that's what uplanderguy did).
I couldn't have expressed my feelings any better that what you did in your posting.
Overall, however, we are in general agreement.
When the country's revenue stream is based largely upon an environment in which only 50% actually contribute funds, yet all get to vote (indirectly, at least) on what/how much is spent, it's a given that the system is doomed to failure.
As for your "status symbol" dig, I bought a 328i because I wanted a hard-top convertible, and BMW offered the best solution to my needs for that vehicle.
You know, many folks bought 335D's for the same reason.... It was the best fit for their particular needs.
But, I'm just doing what you claim everyone should be doing... Buying local. BMW's manufacturing plant is less that 10 miles from where I live, and BMW has done exponentially by a factor of 1000's more for upstate SC than any of the big 3 ever did.
As for the "haters" .... Accept it. Every forum has them. This one isn't any different. If a poster has a valid argument, then respond if you wish. If its a crank post, ignore it.
I can tell you this: If every car buyer had the experience with his vehicle that I did when I bought a first-year run S10 Blazer, GM would be nothing more today than a distant memory in some college business instructional classroom.
I don't hold it against GM. I won the lemon of the year lotto on mine, but all manufacturers make lemons. When I buy a car today, I give every manufacturer a new look. The GM car of 1985 isn't the GM car today. Same goes for all makes.
If I'm eating a nice meal at a restaurant, and the waiter ask me how thing are, I tell him the truth. If the steak was as tough as leather, I tell him. If it was tender and cooked to perfection, I tell him. It does no one any good to only mention the successes and ignore the failures.
That may or may not fit into YOUR view of reality, or it may. Your choice.
Just because I was pissed at GM over the Sonic brake issue didn't mean I thought GM was trash. I was critical because a few burps like that can do great harm today.
Those are slip ups that the big-3 can ill afford.
If you have ever managed anyone, then you know you keep your eye on the guy who isn't performing far more than on the fellows who are exceeding expectations.
Some will always complain. My suggestion is to move forward and ignore it. Bringing up others' failures only makes you look defensive. And, using your "team player" analogy, the defense rarely scores many points.
Did BMW move their headquarters to the US?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Had to chuckle at this. Not exactly the same 'buying local' as I enjoyed doing, but hey...it's a free market out there.
It may look 'defensive' to you, but some of the most ridiculous, lopsided, and even erroneous, comments get posted here. Of course, once something is in print, anybody else that sees it tends to view it as 'fact', which is why I have a hard time letting stupid comments go unchallenged. Opinions are fine, but so much stuff that passes for fact here is utterly laughable.
Perfect example: that silly cradle-to-grave study comparing the Prius and Hummer.
Using the resale example, let's say you line up Malibu vs. Camry, and the lease residual says the Camry will be worth 60% and the Malibu just 55%. I'm just tossing out numbers for arguments' sake.
Say you look at a $20k MSRP sample of each one. The Camry would be worth $12k and the 'bu just $11k, BUT.....
If you can get a $1000 more off the price of the 'bu, it's still a better buy.
I remember you got something like $3k off, wasn't it? That's why I said back then, and would reiterate now, your purchase was a better deal than a new Camry would have been. Camrys were getting $500 cash back and some haggling, but no where near enough discounts to match the deal you got on your car.
If the discount is deeper, enough to offset the additional residual value, then the car with the big discount/lower residual is still the better deal.
Now, forget everything I said, and buy the car you prefer. :shades:
Here, the BMW plant alone employes over 8000 people. Include the associated suppliers, and you easily exceed 25,000.
It's the largest employer in the upstate of SC.
But, just to show I'm not biased, I also bought a 2005 Aveo, made in Korea.
And, I have a Z-4 coupe made 10 miles from me.
Which one...the Z-4, or the Aveo, would YOU say helped the local economy more?
Do you honestly believe no UAW members or white collar big-3 employees shop at Wal-mart?
Where are the big-3 assembly plants in SC?
The big-3 completely abandoned SC as a supplier of textile products and proceeded to purchase those materials from.... Can you guess where?
Like I said, I try to buy local. To me, local is where the local economy is supported by local manufacturers.
GE has a turbine manufacturing plant here as well, and while I may not be in the market for a gas turbine, I give them an initial preferential look when buying appliances.
Here's some erroneous comment: "Cadillac is the New World Standard"
Fact: Cadillac is largely a North American brand, just starting to grow overseas. GM sold just under 200,000 last year, making it the 52nd best-selling brand in 2011.
GM is the largest selling car company in the world. Nice.
GM 2011 Profit = $7.6B
VW 2011 Profit = $20.1B
GM is not the most profitable car company in the world.
Balance.
Regards,
OW
General Motors Co. (GM) is planning to shift more of its production to low-cost countries including Poland, Russia, China, India, Mexico and Brazil, Der Spiegel reported, citing a company strategy paper.
As the automaker’s output is increasing, GM plans to build 80 percent of the additional units in low-cost countries, the magazine said in an e-mailed preview of its article.
By 2016, GM plans to export an additional 300,000 vehicles from factories in Mexico, Korea and China to Europe, Spiegel said.
GM working those tax dollars just fine, wouldn't you say?
Regards,
OW
In an 8 car face-off, the BMW 328 took 1st place. The Buick Regal GS won 8th place.
Quote ...
"Still, over our curvy test loop, we were unimpressed with the Regal's nervous handling dynamics".
After the BMW, the order as follows...
Volvo S60
M-B C250
Audi A4Quatro
Lexus IS 250 Sport
Acura TSX V-6
Infiniti G25
Buick Regal GS
Another fine example of a "local manufacturer"...
Perhaps the ATS could do it. Look how long it took, however. Finally, GM is getting serious.
Volvo is the big surprise to me.
Regards,
OW
Like the BMW, the Buick uses a direct-injected 2.0-liter turbo four. Yet unlike the 328i, the Regal pumps out 30 more horsepower and 40 extra lb-ft of torque for -- drumroll, please -- a tops-in-test 270 horses and 295 lb-ft. Unfortunately, that output advantage didn't translate to the track, where the six-speed-auto GS was 0.6 second slower from 0 to 60 (6.2 seconds) and 0.8 second tardier through the quarter mile (15.0 seconds at 93.1 mph) than the dragstrip champ eight-speed 328i. So, it's not quicker, but perhaps it's more fuel-efficient? Nope. Per the EPA's fuel-economy test, the BMW ekes out 24/36 mpg city/highway to the Buick's 20/32. Moreover, our observed fuel economy placed the 328i (16.8 mpg) mid-pack and the Regal dead last (14.6), a full 2.0 mpg behind the A4, the second-thirstiest vehicle.
At $38,565 ($35,720 base), the Regal GS resides in the economical half of the group, yet includes navigation ($1145), power sunroof ($1000), leather interior, satellite radio, Bluetooth, pushbutton start, and dual-zone auto A/C. The lack of a backup camera, especially given the high rear shelf, seems an oversight. And please, please, lose the gaudy chrome inserts in the steering wheel and around the gearshift. As the most powerful entry -- not to mention one of the newest -- the Regal needed to be more than an apparent strong value with flash. It needed to live up to its brawny specs and bulldog looks. As its finish illustrates, it didn't.
Regards,
OW
Do you mean the Regal or the laCrosse hasn't been marketed well here? I think each could have improved marketing.
I appreciate your explaining the Regal Europe version's position in the market.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
FWIW those numbers have been revised downward.
IIRC it's 23/33 now. The initial ratings must have been too optimistic, so the EPA basically said try again and BMW updated their numbers.
Link:
http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/content/Vehicles/2012/3/328iSedan/modelhighlights- /default.aspx
Yep, 33mpg now. 36 seemed too good to be true. It was.
YMMV, 16.8 mpg with the lead foots at the mag, wow.
This car rings the bell to the tune of $50,560, by far the highest as-tested price of the competition. Shock! Horror! You all will cancel your subscriptions en masse, of course the most expensive car won, because we're all idiots, etc.
Yes, yes, yes. We know. However, unlike the other seven competitors, this particular car was driven away from the U.S. 3 Series launch BMW held in San Francisco where the cars were (of course) trimmed out with all the fixings. The point I want to make is that, using BMW's online configurator, you can spec out a mechanically identical 328i Sport Line for $41,095 that would have beat up on and choked out the competition just like the one in our test did.
Regards,
OW
Lacrosse seems to be marketed as well as I can expect from GM - who as a whole is not the most skilled in salesmanship. Lacrosse seems like a very nice car.
I wonder if we may not have reached the point where decisions need to be made based more on expected profitability rather than filling a niche?
Certainly, truck sales have been the most durable segment for the domestics. And, I've often heard the argument that the domestics need to have a "complete solution" to the entire range of vehicles, even though Chrysler was the first domestic to realize the impractibility of doing that.
VW's foray into pickup trucks was a no-show, yet VW is doing well in the US with no truck options.
I just wonder if maybe its time for the domestics, particularly GM, to say "No, we don't really want to participate in a particular area, because we can no longer afford the option of attempting to provide a vehicle for every solution?"
I saw one on the showroom floor of the local dealer for 55K+. Not in the same league as the Regal, which in the home market is just a nice ordinary mid sized FWD sedan.
For years, GM pushed the brand towards the more refined, successful and ELDERLY buyers.... And they succeeded.
It's not uncommon to hear ..."sorry I'm late, but I got caught up behind an old blue-hair and couldn't get around him to pass..."
The response..."was he driving a Buick?"
I guess the Regal is trying to go against that - but if GM (rather than a car rag) thinks it is a 3er alternative, it fails loudly.
You have to ask, what does Buick stand for? Big, comfortable sedans? Small sedans? Sport sedans? The Regal, LaCrosse, and Verano don't seem like they would be from the same brand at all.
The Buick base price was $35,720.
Test car was $38,565.
The BMW base price was $35, 795.
As tested $50,560.
But, as was also in the article, they configured a BMW for $41,095 that "would have beat up and choked out the competition...".
I agree that I can't see many potential buyers cross shopping a 3 series and a Buick Regal.
A master of understatement. :P
Here in the west, too.
On the rare occasions I see a Buick sedan on the road, when I get a look at the driver they are retiree age. Or somebody younger but then the car has dealer plates, which means they work at the dealer.
I wonder how successful VW is marketing it's version of a Chrysler minivan?
Seems the sales are going about 1000 a month. I wonder what VWs target numbers were/are...
May as well not exist. Each VW dealer sells probably about 1 per month and they have to train all their staff to know about a virtually non-existent product.
That's the general populace's perception here in NE OH, as well...usually the Century model of the late '90's and early '00's. I actually think those are a more stylish car than the same year Tauruses, which were probably the closest thing to compete with them in the domestic market.
If I liked the car, that perception wouldn't bother me a bit. People in my hometown who bought the last few years of Studebakers were older folks, too, and I love those cars. I tend to thumb my nose at general perceptions, though.
But there can be no question that image sells.
I'd bet all of us here have seen folks buying far more car than they could comfortably afford, just for the image...
Ask most folks about the average age of the owner of a new Ford Focus, Taurus and Mustang, and you'll probably get three different age groups.
Ask most folks about the average age of a Chevrolet Sonic, Impala and Camaro owner, and you'll probably get three different age groups.
Ask most folks about the average age of a Buick Lacrosse, Enclave, Verano and Regal buyer and you'll get something along the lines of "that's an old man's car". I don't think the model will make any significant difference in the age estimates given.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/05/buick-sales-up-average-age-of-buyers-- down.html
When I was a kid, mention Cadillac and you would have gotten the same response. No more. Cadillac expanded its appeal across a much wider age group, and I suspect the coming ATS will appeal to a much younger, mobile, economically successful type than any Buick.
Buick can change the image. It just needs to re-brand itself to be more appealing to a wider audience.
Again, that's just my opinion.
Test car was $38,565.
The BMW base price was $35, 795.
As tested $50,560.
But, as was also in the article, they configured a BMW for $41,095 that "would have beat up and choked out the competition...".
I agree that I can't see many potential buyers cross shopping a 3 series and a Buick Regal.
I don't think it's much of a surprise the BMW was first among the 8 cars. But there are 6 other cars that also placed above the Regal which are in a comparable price range. Granted from the article, it appears the Infinity and Regal are a toss up for last place.
Virtually no one will be going from a BMW dealer to Buick, GM hopes that will happen with the ATS.
The car which impressed me the most is the Volvo S60 (sure I really like the 3 series, but man does it get pricey fast). I find the S60 to be good looking and reasonably priced. For $38k you can get a S60 T6 with 300HP and AWD. The only downer is I don't think a manual is available.
That's why I haven't purchased a new vehicle in over 10 years. I don't know if I'll ever buy another brand new vehicle. Though right now, used car values are to the point it's worth looking at new.
Ever sat in the back of a 3 series with a normal sized driver up front?
The CTS is a tweener. IIRC, the ATS will close in size to the CTS and the next CTS will move up to 5 series dimensions.