Uplander, when Mulally first came to Ford and CR wasn't complimentary about some of the products, the initial response he heard from his managers was things like "it isn't that bad", "they are prejudiced", etc. You know what he did? He brought a group of them out to CR headquarters and told them to basically shut up, listen and fix because these are things that customers may think as well. I think most people will admit that Ford got ahead of GM in quality and customer perception. There is absolutely no reason why GM can't take that crown back, but management has to show they are serious. When that happens, you won't find any cars going out to reviewers with even minor defects on them, trust me.
4 mm=.1575 inch...a little less than 1/6 of an inch. If fussing about that type thing would make the price go up, well....give me back the 4 mm gap.
No thanks, I'll buy something that doesn't look like it was slapped together by drunks. That's exactly how my wife's Taurus looks. If I was using my own money to buy it, I would have walked right out of the showroom and to another make that might actually care how a car leaves the factory.
I'd give Ford a pass is someone can convince me fleet cars get less attention than non fleet.
If Ford can't get panel alignments right, they shouldn't bother designing body panels with excessive creases which make alignment issues even more noticeable.
The car should get the turbo engine. The test car appears same engine which was in the Regal I rented last fall - also sounded coarse when cold and wasn't the most responsive.
I agree 100%. I've driven a friends Chevy Equinox with the DI 2.4 and was far from impressed. It was sluggish, and crude IMO. Granted, going from a v8 to a 4cyl is a drastic change.
I do believe the Verano will get the 2.0 turbo later this year.
Most times, the rags advise if it's a pre-production car, like this from Motor Trend. I agree that most buyers will not miss the extra power but the point should be well taken regarding any issues. Defending GM at all costs is sooo Pre-2009 Bankruptcy! Launch is not a strong point at GM.
Buick says the average Verano customer isn't interested in performance, and that's true. The engine's thrashiness at 4000-5000 rpm, though, isn't premium. Buick engineers were working on oil pump isolation that the Milford pre-production cars didn't have, and the later-build Verano we had for instrument testing didn't have the noise problem, though its torque curve still seems to drop off in that critical 4000-5000 rpm range.
On all types of roads the Verano ranks among the quietest mass-market cars you can buy. Buick delineates the Verano from the Regal by connecting it with the larger LaCrosse -- it's a quiet, stately LaCrosse for customers who want, or need, something smaller. Like the Regal and not the LaCrosse, the Verano will have the 2.0-liter turbo four as an option later in the '12 model year. Buick hasn't said whether it will tune the Verano's turbo engine to 220 horsepower, like the Regal Turbo, or to 270 horsepower, with appropriate suspension upgrades, like the Regal GS. With a six-speed manual option, it'll be the enthusiast's Verano of choice, though, and it should satisfy our concerns about the lack of premium feel in the base launch engine.
I have serious doubts about that, but of course we'd never know. Being a human, he comes into things with biases, of course
I admit I have biases against GM, but I didn't acquire them from a magazine articles. My biases developed from first hand experience with GM and Ford vehicles that were/are substandard in a variety of areas.
You raise an interesting point with Ford because it seems to me that they vary a lot by product model and by not taking a bailout they may get a bit of slack. The Fusion and F-150's I've seen seem pretty decently assembled. But while my car was in the shop I had a new Explorer with about 1200 miles on it. It is made in the same Chicago plant as your Taurus and didn't seem all that tightly built and it already had a rattle. Its dash was an ergonomic mess. Stuff seemed stashed wherever they could fit it around all the techie crap. The speedometer is weird because the speeds you use most are all buried in the far lower portion. The touch buttons sometimes worked easily and at other times required multiple, heavy pushes with your finger. It also has a noticeably protruding wheel well obstructing legroom. Except for the excellent seats in it, I thought the GM models I had as rentals were much more user friendly and comfortable. The GM models drivetrain also seemed smoother. The 2013 updates to those should move them farther ahead I think. The Explorer does have a lower price point in its favor though.
A 1/16" of an inch is .0625", that's more than twice that. You can stick a stack the thickness of (5) credit cards in that gap...
Yeah, I'm looking at a ruler right now, and I'd say that with today's modern cars, a 4mm variance would be pretty noticeable. If 4mm is about .157", that's really not that far off from 3/16", which is .1875"
A lot of today's cars probably have gaps that are as tight as 1/4", perhaps even tighter, so a variance like that would be huge.
I'm starting to wonder though, if this reviewer was speaking in hyperbole when he said "a good 4mm variance" or whatever. Maybe that's just a phrase they use, like "missed it by a mile" or whatever? :P
It is made in the same Chicago plant as your Taurus and didn't seem all that tightly built and it already had a rattle.
Yeah, my wife's Taurus turned 1 and passed 23k miles last month. It's starting to creak and rattle in traditional Detroit fashion. I think part of the problem is the suspension is particular stiff. It's an SE model, so I don't know if the higher trim models have more forgiving spring rates and shock damping. It rides far firmer than the Grand Prix she had.
In the slides, I wonder if the silver car is the one that WSJ had access to test. Tester says only the gaps were erratic. The showroom car I looked at was great on gap tightness. If there were a gap problem, he would have added pictures of the excessive gap. I don't see that in the slide show.
Tester still notes the reference point was not used for the right fender. As I said before, i wonder if an early version had the unibody slightly off as a preproduction sample.
In the video, the guy says, "Yes, it's a really nice car," when asked if he loved the car. He also says he would buy it.
My Buick Park Avenue has roughly 4mm gaps in many places and it was considered to be extremely well built.
This reminds me why auto reviews all need to be taken with a huge amount of cynicism. If it's slower than 6 seconds, oh my god, it's crap. If the doors have 1mm too much of a gap, it's crap. If we rev the engine to death like it is never driven by anyone in its intended market population and it makes noise, well, it's a box full of rocks and is crap. If the nav system is the wrong color of blue, well, it's also crap.
On and on... I guess if you spent all day testing and fantasizing about exotic cars and hot rods and were forced to have to drive a plebeian's car, well, you'd think that it was a chore.
Yet the Cruise/Verano is a very nice car, overall. Certainly better than GM's past small cars. But that's never factored in, is it. Or the fact that to get those 6 second drag strip times, you need a very fuel-hungry engine, which then everyone would of course moan about it getting poor MPG and say it's crap for that.
I can live with 8 or even 12 second 0-60 times if it means I don't end up averaging 20mpg in real-world driving here in Los Angeles. I consistently get 5-6mpg worse in city driving here than EPA numbers. Traffic maybe moves at 50mph on the highway on a good day, and closer to 30 on the city streets. There's always a moron in front of you sight-seeing of trolling for a parking spot, and some addled 80 year old who can't hardly peer over their steering wheel in your way.
My top priorities are that it starts, stops, and doesn't make my rear end feel like I've been sitting on a stone slab after two hours of this every day. Oh, and a decent sound system to drown out the bums who are pan-handling at the freeway exits.
>This reminds me why auto reviews all need to be taken with a huge amount of cynicism. If it's slower than 6 seconds, oh my god, it's crap. If the doors have 1mm too much of a gap, it's crap. If we rev the engine to death like it is never driven by anyone in its intended market population and it makes noise, well, it's a box full of rocks and is crap. If the nav system is the wrong color of blue, well, it's also crap.
Exactly. There's one way to test cars that are for the people who drive like heck and want to hear the motor roar and accelerate like a Mustang just kicked in the rear.
>On and on... I guess if you spent all day testing and fantasizing about exotic cars and hot rods and were forced to have to drive a plebeian's car, well, you'd think that it was a chore.
The tester says in the video that he is spoiled. He also indicates often that the car was built for the Chinese market. He says something about they want glitzy, glittery cars. And he peppers those kinds of adjectives throughout the review. If I had hiim as a judge in court, I'd ask for a change of venue. He doesn't show that he's able to be impartial.
>Yet the Cruise/Verano is a very nice car, overall. Certainly better than GM's past small cars.
Exactly. If someone doesn't want to buy a Verano because a picky, affected reviewer says he likes it but it's not up to the ultimate best of all reviewed that he loves the most, then they can not buy it and just quietly pedal on down the street.
dieselone, when the 'new' Taurus came out, I liked the styling a lot, although it did feel a little tight inside for a car that size outside. After a year or two, though, I think they're looking rather 'chunky'.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Well, looks like the previous SRX had the same drunks working on the assembly! This is an entry from Edmund's Long-Term blog:
Cadillac SRX - As I was getting ready to enter the Cadillac SRX this morning, I noticed a couple of ominous shadows between the panels on the driver side of the SUV. I took a closer look and realized that the shadows marked some pretty large gaps -- large enough to catch my eye, which is saying a lot, since I don't normally notice that sort of thing. Furthermore, the panels didn't seem to be properly aligned; the panels on the front driver and passenger side doors didn't fit smoothly, but rather seemed to jut out a few millimeters.
I thought maybe the Caddy had suffered some body damage, but our manager of vehicle testing confirmed that it hadn't... Then I took a few minutes to compare the Caddy's fit with that of other SUVs in our garage. Sure enough, the Caddy's gap was the biggest by far. The SRX has cladding on the lower part of its door, and there has to be some room left to allow for clearance. But other vehicles with cladding -- like an Audi Q7 we're currently testing -- managed to solve this design issue without leaving a gaping chasm.
Not a big deal for some, and not usually a big deal for me. But others shopping in this price range might expect better.
Warren Clarke, Content Editor @ 7,099 mile
I wonder if a 52-card deck would fit in the SRX's gaps?
You guys are missing the point - 1)why did GM management let it out the door that way to the press pool? and 2) how come a highly paid UAW worker can't put the fender on as straight as a much lower compensated worker in a body shop did fixing my car? Like it or not, GM has to meet and preferably beat the competition if they are going to have a strong future.
Or, maybe not, since there are multiple points to be made.
Of course, no respectable manufacturer should let a product go out for review unless its as perfect as it can be... that seems like common sense to me.
But, one review (either a pan or glowing review) shouldn't carry too much weight in the grand scheme of things.
Its quite a different story if multiple reviewers give multiple sampled vehicles of the same make/model bad reviews.
Personally, I wouldn't get too worked up over a single review of a single sample. Now, if the guy had gone to a new car lot and examined 12 new cars like the one being reviewed, and each one was out of kilter by the same 4 MM, that's a different story.
One or two points on a graph don't necessarily make a trend...
dieselone, when the 'new' Taurus came out, I liked the styling a lot, although it did feel a little tight inside for a car that size outside. After a year or two, though, I think they're looking rather 'chunky'.
I'd agree. I still like the front end styling, but I've never warmed up the rear end. Yeah, lots of wasted space on the interior. I think Ford must have tried to have such a large center console have so little storage space.
In some ways, I liked the 06 Ford 500 my wife had a few cars back. At least from a room standpoint.
One or two points on a graph don't necessarily make a trend...
True, but its sister car the Cruze has had some embarassments too like improperly fastened steering wheels that weren't found until they reached the dealers or customers. Management and the UAW have to up their game if they are going to win. Stuff like this should be getting caught in the factory. Maybe its time for GM and the UAW to make some leadership changes at the plant level?
No. I saw the point on the data chart--the one that I inspected in the showroom. The salesman thought I was nuts because I was going over the thing carefully.
I had looked at one on the lot before I went inside, but it was a windy day and I didn't like the wind or I would have looked at more data points outdoors.
I didn't drive one. I would wait until the new engine came out next model year. Might even be nice for a mild hybrid if that's coming. Or a diesel?
I don't know anything about how GM could have done this or could have done that. It's JANG.
Of course, I don't know if the WSJ guy bumped a fender into something or if one of the other "testers" who had that same vehicle before him did something to it. Or maybe it fell off the skillet on the assembly line and was slightly moved and they assembled to correct gap. Notice, we never saw a picture of the offending connection point that disturbed him so much.
when Mulally first came to Ford and CR wasn't complimentary about some of the products, the initial response he heard from his managers was things like "it isn't that bad", "they are prejudiced", etc. You know what he did? He brought a group of them out to CR headquarters and told them to basically shut up, listen and fix because these are things that customers may think as well. I think most people will admit that Ford got ahead of GM in quality and customer perception.
Ford was fortunate to have a "true"and real leader brought in by a Ford family member. Mullaly started to turn Ford around well before the crisis of GM and Chrysler. GM and Chyrsler needed goverrnment bailouts to pull them out. Ford did not. And, the government in DC per Obama did a number of things illegal to scre* the bondholders in favor of the unions that gave substantial sums to support Obama campaign. An illegal manipulation by the Obama regime.
The more I think about this, the more I get concerned. I supported the bailout and as taxpayers we all indirectly own a piece of GM, so we should want it to succeed. All these little things that have been happening and may not individually matter to some are really a sign of complacency. GM should not be complacent these days. Complacency is a sign of weak leadership. I don't expect Ackerson thought it was just a little thing that his management sent out a less than stellar example of a Buick to the WSJ and a known critical reviewer read by an audience that represents the target market Buick is looking to gain. You can't be a Lexus or BMW competitor if you can't take the time to put a fender on correctly. In fact, that makes it hard to compete with Toyota, Honda and Nissan as well. The Tsunami impact is wearing off and Japan and Korea are both gaining market faster than GM and Ford again. Another disturbing piece of marketing data is now arriving. It seems that young buyers who may initially buy based on price and styling are reverting to their parents preferences as they get older and switching over to Japanese and German makes as they move up. These small screw ups may be little stuff to you, but to a lot of people in the market it is only serving to reinforce past perceptions about Detroit products. D3 needs to break those perceptions consistently if they are going to return to market dominance. They need to build on the gains they have made, not consolidate at where they are now. They need to over deliver. Gasoline will likely see saw to higher and higher averages over the decade due to more expensive drilling techniques and higher global demand, so big truck profits are going to help D3 less and less as time goes on. Obama may or may not be president next year, and even if re-elected his party will likely hold less of Congress. The bailouts and union preferential treatment are coming to an end and Detroit needs to be ready. The UAW needs to start giving its membership a dose of reality also. I want the government to gets its investment back and complaceny isn't going to achieve that goal. That means I want to start seeing GM deliver the best products at the best prices routinely. We are now really owners and should expect no less from GM than we would our own business.
There is absolutely no reason why GM can't take that crown back, but management has to show they are serious. When that happens, you won't find any cars going out to reviewers with even minor defects on them, trust me.
Completely agree. It's the constant excuses that fanboys keep churning out that got GM where it was a few years ago. The fanboys may keep on coming, but some of those "small" things lose a bunch of sales. It doesn't matter if some people thing the press is biased (CR, C&D, now the WSJ. Gee, *everybody* is biased :confuse: ) Perhaps there is just something to what is being said. Perception *is* important.
GM should coin a new advertising slogan - instead of "Heartbeat of America" or "standard of the world", how about "No Excuses".
One of the largest financial institutions in the U.S., Ally Financial, was paid a visit this week by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
While there, the FBI special agents utilized a search warrant to find and seize a single iMac computer, according to The Detroit News, which it took while under supervision by an Ally Financial attorney.
The reasoning behind the search warrant is not currently public, sealed by the warrant itself. Neither the FBI nor Ally Financial are offering details as to why the computer was taken, but it is known that Assistant U.S. Attorney Terrence Berg, known for his specialization in computer crime, as well as computer security expert Special Agent Ted Jungkuntz are handling the investigation.
So why report about a financial institution on an automotive news-related site, you ask? Ally Financial is responsible for handling most of the loans on new vehicles for both General Motors and Chrysler, was a recipient of $17.2 billion in federal bailout money, and is to this day 74 percent-owned by the U.S. Treasury.
No excuses, as long as it applies to all. It was on this very board where I saw repeated excuses allowing Toyota off the hook because a supplier screwed up the gas pedals. Hey, if GM has a recall, I don't care if it's because of a supplier...it's a GM product. Seriously.
Also heard excuse after excuse about the p***-poor Camry rental with 15K miles I had last year.
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I can live with 8 or even 12 second 0-60 times if it means I don't end up averaging 20mpg in real-world driving here in Los Angeles.
Well for one thing, you can line up several different cars with similar 0-60 times and during routine driving some will feel more responsive than others, based on gearing, and the power band of the engines.
Ex. IIRC the Taurus is usually clocked in the high 7 0-60 range and my Expedition is high 8 to 9 range (considering mine has 3.73 gears, it should be on the lower end).
Driving around town the Expedition feels as strong as the Taurus if not more responsive due to having a ton of torque available at 2k rpm (90% of 365 ft-lbs) and shorter gearing, it's not til above 50mph or actually flooring the gas the pedal do I notice the taurus is significantly quicker.
That's because most cars are set up with mile-tall gearing so that they can get good 0-60 times. The "trick" is that they make 2nd gear tall enough to shift at a bit over 60mph under full throttle.
Most SUVs shift into third gear long before then and that kills their 0-60 times. Of course, if you're going from 30 to 45 in city traffic, lugging around in 2nd or 3rd in a Taurus, it's going to take forever to do anything. The last Taurus I drove had a (not joking) full second delay between hitting the pedal to the floor and deciding to shift out of third gear and start accelerating.
Apparently the Cruise/Verano/etc uses lots of smaller gears and a more intelligent shifting program. If drives quite nicely, but wont win any drag strip competitions. Note - the Ford cars with the similar "eco boost" feature as the turbo in the GM models also are having the same "issues". They drive fine and get good MPG, but they are not designed for racing.
when the 'new' Taurus came out, I liked the styling a lot, although it did feel a little tight inside for a car that size outside. After a year or two, though, I think they're looking rather 'chunky'.
I felt the same way. Its not a bad car, just lots of wasted space. The LaCrosse is much better in this respect (and one of the main reasons I chose it over the Taurus).
I agree with your synopsis. The part you omitted, however, is that "everybody" is biased ONLY when the item is being panned. If its being praised, well then, that's an entirely different kettle of fish, isn't it?
I'm willing to cut anyone some slack based upon a single poor review, simply because reviewers can indeed be biased. What I fail to grasp is the idea that GM gets some kind of "pass" simply because it's domestic.
In today's manufacturing environment, there simply is no excuse for misaligned panels on a car. Laser alignment, robotics and such (which any auto manufacturer has easy access to) make well designed manufacturing processes, especially those with 1000's of repetitions daily virtually flawless.
Like another poster stated earlier, I'm going to spend my $$$ on the product that is manufactured with the highest standards .vs. the product that isn't, especially when the price is the same.
Most SUVs shift into third gear long before then and that kills their 0-60 times. Of course, if you're going from 30 to 45 in city traffic, lugging around in 2nd or 3rd in a Taurus, it's going to take forever to do anything. The last Taurus I drove had a (not joking) full second delay between hitting the pedal to the floor and deciding to shift out of third gear and start accelerating.
Actually, the Taurus my wife has downshifts quick enough and responsiveness isn't bad. Though shift quality is occasionally clunky. Considering the 6 speed is a joint design between Ford and GM, I guess I'll blame GM for the shift quality issues;) Actually 99% of the time it behaves well, it's just the occasional harsh shift.
Any comment on my comment 23594, busiris? I didn't think so.
Just keep saying to yourself, "Four millimeters....four millimeters".
I'd be exposed to frustration many times over for a hood prop or trunk hinges that crush luggage, which you and others here dismiss, than that 4 mm would ever affect me. Give me price, dealer availability, styling, build it here, if there's a recall Mr. U.S. executive, don't point to the President from (fill in the blank) and look like a deer in the headlights, and I'm in.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I like how one response in one of your links, the person says they like their Cruze a lot better than their '05 Prius which had brake failure. I believe those were recalled for that.
Here's a link I took about thirty seconds to find, from a Cobalt forum, that shows that someone else besides me heard about the Lordstown repair shop being the cause of that one steering wheel:
"if you read through the posts on that link, someone posted that GM said the car was manufactured with the wrong wheel, and a repair shop replaced the wheel, and didn't tighten it down properly... "
It's indefensible, but GM's recall numbers of late are so miniscule compared to foreign manufacturers which get such a free pass here.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Do any new designs have hinges which lower into the trunk?
I really don't know, but I know that when the Cobalt was built, it had the hood that stayed open by itself, and no gooseneck hinges, when higher-priced cars did not.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Concerning price, I think one can't expect everything they get in a more expensive car, in a less expensive car, that's all. I had a friend who constantly compared his Packard Caribbean hardtop to my Studebaker Lark Daytona. Finally I told him, "You're comparing an Eldorado to a Chevy II Nova". Then he finally got it. Took a long time to get it through his thick head though.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Actually, quite a few cars still use goose neck style hinges. E Class, Camry etc. Though from the pics I found, it didn't look like they would impede on storage much.
Really it's crazy to compare the trunk of a Camry to a Cobalt regardless of where the hinges are, there is far more room in the trunk of the Camry.
I'm only looking at photos, but it appears to me you do give up trunk opening space with outboard/non intrusive hinges. Non intrusive hinges don't mean much if the package doesn't fit through the opening.
In a smaller car, like a Civic, the gooseneck hinges do intrude. Trust me, I've taken many a trip across PA in one with a coworker, with three guys' luggage for a week in the trunk and also our 'moving office' equipment and supplies.
Even worse in a Matrix. What normally fits in my Cobalt without a stretch falls over the back of the back seat of the Matrix.
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Comments
No thanks, I'll buy something that doesn't look like it was slapped together by drunks. That's exactly how my wife's Taurus looks. If I was using my own money to buy it, I would have walked right out of the showroom and to another make that might actually care how a car leaves the factory.
I'd give Ford a pass is someone can convince me fleet cars get less attention than non fleet.
If Ford can't get panel alignments right, they shouldn't bother designing body panels with excessive creases which make alignment issues even more noticeable.
I agree 100%. I've driven a friends Chevy Equinox with the DI 2.4 and was far from impressed. It was sluggish, and crude IMO. Granted, going from a v8 to a 4cyl is a drastic change.
I do believe the Verano will get the 2.0 turbo later this year.
Buick says the average Verano customer isn't interested in performance, and that's true. The engine's thrashiness at 4000-5000 rpm, though, isn't premium. Buick engineers were working on oil pump isolation that the Milford pre-production cars didn't have, and the later-build Verano we had for instrument testing didn't have the noise problem, though its torque curve still seems to drop off in that critical 4000-5000 rpm range.
On all types of roads the Verano ranks among the quietest mass-market cars you can buy. Buick delineates the Verano from the Regal by connecting it with the larger LaCrosse -- it's a quiet, stately LaCrosse for customers who want, or need, something smaller. Like the Regal and not the LaCrosse, the Verano will have the 2.0-liter turbo four as an option later in the '12 model year. Buick hasn't said whether it will tune the Verano's turbo engine to 220 horsepower, like the Regal Turbo, or to 270 horsepower, with appropriate suspension upgrades, like the Regal GS. With a six-speed manual option, it'll be the enthusiast's Verano of choice, though, and it should satisfy our concerns about the lack of premium feel in the base launch engine.
Regards,
OW
I admit I have biases against GM, but I didn't acquire them from a magazine articles. My biases developed from first hand experience with GM and Ford vehicles that were/are substandard in a variety of areas.
Yeah, I'm looking at a ruler right now, and I'd say that with today's modern cars, a 4mm variance would be pretty noticeable. If 4mm is about .157", that's really not that far off from 3/16", which is .1875"
A lot of today's cars probably have gaps that are as tight as 1/4", perhaps even tighter, so a variance like that would be huge.
I'm starting to wonder though, if this reviewer was speaking in hyperbole when he said "a good 4mm variance" or whatever. Maybe that's just a phrase they use, like "missed it by a mile" or whatever? :P
Yeah, my wife's Taurus turned 1 and passed 23k miles last month. It's starting to creak and rattle in traditional Detroit fashion. I think part of the problem is the suspension is particular stiff. It's an SE model, so I don't know if the higher trim models have more forgiving spring rates and shock damping. It rides far firmer than the Grand Prix she had.
Link to slide show
In the slides, I wonder if the silver car is the one that WSJ had access to test. Tester says only the gaps were erratic. The showroom car I looked at was great on gap tightness. If there were a gap problem, he would have added pictures of the excessive gap. I don't see that in the slide show.
Tester still notes the reference point was not used for the right fender. As I said before, i wonder if an early version had the unibody slightly off as a preproduction sample.
In the video, the guy says, "Yes, it's a really nice car," when asked if he loved the car. He also says he would buy it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
LOL, nope, If I don't like a product or service I receive, I generally go elsewhere.
This reminds me why auto reviews all need to be taken with a huge amount of cynicism. If it's slower than 6 seconds, oh my god, it's crap. If the doors have 1mm too much of a gap, it's crap. If we rev the engine to death like it is never driven by anyone in its intended market population and it makes noise, well, it's a box full of rocks and is crap. If the nav system is the wrong color of blue, well, it's also crap.
On and on... I guess if you spent all day testing and fantasizing about exotic cars and hot rods and were forced to have to drive a plebeian's car, well, you'd think that it was a chore.
Yet the Cruise/Verano is a very nice car, overall. Certainly better than GM's past small cars. But that's never factored in, is it. Or the fact that to get those 6 second drag strip times, you need a very fuel-hungry engine, which then everyone would of course moan about it getting poor MPG and say it's crap for that.
I can live with 8 or even 12 second 0-60 times if it means I don't end up averaging 20mpg in real-world driving here in Los Angeles. I consistently get 5-6mpg worse in city driving here than EPA numbers. Traffic maybe moves at 50mph on the highway on a good day, and closer to 30 on the city streets. There's always a moron in front of you sight-seeing of trolling for a parking spot, and some addled 80 year old who can't hardly peer over their steering wheel in your way.
My top priorities are that it starts, stops, and doesn't make my rear end feel like I've been sitting on a stone slab after two hours of this every day. Oh, and a decent sound system to drown out the bums who are pan-handling at the freeway exits.
Exactly. There's one way to test cars that are for the people who drive like heck and want to hear the motor roar and accelerate like a Mustang just kicked in the rear.
>On and on... I guess if you spent all day testing and fantasizing about exotic cars and hot rods and were forced to have to drive a plebeian's car, well, you'd think that it was a chore.
The tester says in the video that he is spoiled. He also indicates often that the car was built for the Chinese market. He says something about they want glitzy, glittery cars. And he peppers those kinds of adjectives throughout the review. If I had hiim as a judge in court, I'd ask for a change of venue. He doesn't show that he's able to be impartial.
>Yet the Cruise/Verano is a very nice car, overall. Certainly better than GM's past small cars.
Exactly. If someone doesn't want to buy a Verano because a picky, affected reviewer says he likes it but it's not up to the ultimate best of all reviewed that he loves the most, then they can not buy it and just quietly pedal on down the street.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Cadillac SRX -
As I was getting ready to enter the Cadillac SRX this morning, I noticed a couple of ominous shadows between the panels on the driver side of the SUV. I took a closer look and realized that the shadows marked some pretty large gaps -- large enough to catch my eye, which is saying a lot, since I don't normally notice that sort of thing. Furthermore, the panels didn't seem to be properly aligned; the panels on the front driver and passenger side doors didn't fit smoothly, but rather seemed to jut out a few millimeters.
I thought maybe the Caddy had suffered some body damage, but our manager of vehicle testing confirmed that it hadn't...
Then I took a few minutes to compare the Caddy's fit with that of other SUVs in our garage. Sure enough, the Caddy's gap was the biggest by far. The SRX has cladding on the lower part of its door, and there has to be some room left to allow for clearance. But other vehicles with cladding -- like an Audi Q7 we're currently testing -- managed to solve this design issue without leaving a gaping chasm.
Not a big deal for some, and not usually a big deal for me. But others shopping in this price range might expect better.
Warren Clarke, Content Editor @ 7,099 mile
I wonder if a 52-card deck would fit in the SRX's gaps?
Regards,
OW
Or, maybe not, since there are multiple points to be made.
Of course, no respectable manufacturer should let a product go out for review unless its as perfect as it can be... that seems like common sense to me.
But, one review (either a pan or glowing review) shouldn't carry too much weight in the grand scheme of things.
Its quite a different story if multiple reviewers give multiple sampled vehicles of the same make/model bad reviews.
Personally, I wouldn't get too worked up over a single review of a single sample. Now, if the guy had gone to a new car lot and examined 12 new cars like the one being reviewed, and each one was out of kilter by the same 4 MM, that's a different story.
One or two points on a graph don't necessarily make a trend...
I'd agree. I still like the front end styling, but I've never warmed up the rear end. Yeah, lots of wasted space on the interior. I think Ford must have tried to have such a large center console have so little storage space.
In some ways, I liked the 06 Ford 500 my wife had a few cars back. At least from a room standpoint.
True, but its sister car the Cruze has had some embarassments too like improperly fastened steering wheels that weren't found until they reached the dealers or customers. Management and the UAW have to up their game if they are going to win. Stuff like this should be getting caught in the factory. Maybe its time for GM and the UAW to make some leadership changes at the plant level?
No. I saw the point on the data chart--the one that I inspected in the showroom. The salesman thought I was nuts because I was going over the thing carefully.
I had looked at one on the lot before I went inside, but it was a windy day and I didn't like the wind or I would have looked at more data points outdoors.
I didn't drive one. I would wait until the new engine came out next model year. Might even be nice for a mild hybrid if that's coming. Or a diesel?
I don't know anything about how GM could have done this or could have done that. It's JANG.
Of course, I don't know if the WSJ guy bumped a fender into something or if one of the other "testers" who had that same vehicle before him did something to it. Or maybe it fell off the skillet on the assembly line and was slightly moved and they assembled to correct gap. Notice, we never saw a picture of the offending connection point that disturbed him so much.
Shakespeare: Much Ado About Nothing.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Ford was fortunate to have a "true"and real leader brought in by a Ford family member. Mullaly started to turn Ford around well before the crisis of GM and Chrysler. GM and Chyrsler needed goverrnment bailouts to pull them out. Ford did not. And, the government in DC per Obama did a number of things illegal to scre* the bondholders in favor of the unions that gave substantial sums to support Obama campaign. An illegal manipulation by the Obama regime.
Completely agree. It's the constant excuses that fanboys keep churning out that got GM where it was a few years ago. The fanboys may keep on coming, but some of those "small" things lose a bunch of sales. It doesn't matter if some people thing the press is biased (CR, C&D, now the WSJ. Gee, *everybody* is biased :confuse: ) Perhaps there is just something to what is being said. Perception *is* important.
GM should coin a new advertising slogan - instead of "Heartbeat of America" or "standard of the world", how about "No Excuses".
Nah, the price will easily be mitigated by the"Incentive King". Down from last year but still "King".
Incentive Spending
Manufacturer
March 2012 Incentives
% Change vs. February 2012
% Change vs. March 2011
Total Spending
Chrysler
$3,137
-1.8%
5.6%
$499,729,046
Ford
$2,726
-3.8%
-2.8%
$586,669,519
GM
$3,144
0.9%
-5.1%
$785,765,563
Honda
$2,122
-0.2%
-8.1%
$308,945,849
Hyundai/Kia
$882
4.8%
-30.6%
$111,379,756
Nissan
$3,115
-3.7%
28.0%
$402,433,212
Toyota
$1,704
5.2%
-13.5%
$332,828,376
Volkswagen
$2,021
-2.7%
4.5%
$99,486,066
Industry
$2,440
-1.5%
-1.7%
$3,456,880,192
Regards,
OW
While there, the FBI special agents utilized a search warrant to find and seize a single iMac computer, according to The Detroit News, which it took while under supervision by an Ally Financial attorney.
The reasoning behind the search warrant is not currently public, sealed by the warrant itself. Neither the FBI nor Ally Financial are offering details as to why the computer was taken, but it is known that Assistant U.S. Attorney Terrence Berg, known for his specialization in computer crime, as well as computer security expert Special Agent Ted Jungkuntz are handling the investigation.
So why report about a financial institution on an automotive news-related site, you ask? Ally Financial is responsible for handling most of the loans on new vehicles for both General Motors and Chrysler, was a recipient of $17.2 billion in federal bailout money, and is to this day 74 percent-owned by the U.S. Treasury.
Regards,
OW
Also heard excuse after excuse about the p***-poor Camry rental with 15K miles I had last year.
"Oh... You want your new 2012 average-priced car to not have any manufacturing flaws... Sorry, that'll be a couple of grand extra!"...
It's comments like yours that actually re-enforce those that continually berate GM and the other domestics.
Like the old joke about the "wood butcher" turned carpenter... "Does it fit? ... Nope... Does it touch?... Yep!... Then, Nail it!!!"
There's nothing quite like attempting to defend the indefensible!
http://www.thestar.com/wheels/article/974107--video-chevy-cruze-vehicles-recalle- d-after-steering-wheel-falls-off
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/110412-2011-Chevrole- t-Cruze-Recalled-for-Detached-Steering-Wheel/
Well for one thing, you can line up several different cars with similar 0-60 times and during routine driving some will feel more responsive than others, based on gearing, and the power band of the engines.
Ex. IIRC the Taurus is usually clocked in the high 7 0-60 range and my Expedition is high 8 to 9 range (considering mine has 3.73 gears, it should be on the lower end).
Driving around town the Expedition feels as strong as the Taurus if not more responsive due to having a ton of torque available at 2k rpm (90% of 365 ft-lbs) and shorter gearing, it's not til above 50mph or actually flooring the gas the pedal do I notice the taurus is significantly quicker.
Most SUVs shift into third gear long before then and that kills their 0-60 times. Of course, if you're going from 30 to 45 in city traffic, lugging around in 2nd or 3rd in a Taurus, it's going to take forever to do anything. The last Taurus I drove had a (not joking) full second delay between hitting the pedal to the floor and deciding to shift out of third gear and start accelerating.
Apparently the Cruise/Verano/etc uses lots of smaller gears and a more intelligent shifting program. If drives quite nicely, but wont win any drag strip competitions. Note - the Ford cars with the similar "eco boost" feature as the turbo in the GM models also are having the same "issues". They drive fine and get good MPG, but they are not designed for racing.
I felt the same way. Its not a bad car, just lots of wasted space. The LaCrosse is much better in this respect (and one of the main reasons I chose it over the Taurus).
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I agree with your synopsis. The part you omitted, however, is that "everybody" is biased ONLY when the item is being panned. If its being praised, well then, that's an entirely different kettle of fish, isn't it?
I'm willing to cut anyone some slack based upon a single poor review, simply because reviewers can indeed be biased. What I fail to grasp is the idea that GM gets some kind of "pass" simply because it's domestic.
In today's manufacturing environment, there simply is no excuse for misaligned panels on a car. Laser alignment, robotics and such (which any auto manufacturer has easy access to) make well designed manufacturing processes, especially those with 1000's of repetitions daily virtually flawless.
Like another poster stated earlier, I'm going to spend my $$$ on the product that is manufactured with the highest standards .vs. the product that isn't, especially when the price is the same.
Actually, the Taurus my wife has downshifts quick enough and responsiveness isn't bad. Though shift quality is occasionally clunky. Considering the 6 speed is a joint design between Ford and GM, I guess I'll blame GM for the shift quality issues;) Actually 99% of the time it behaves well, it's just the occasional harsh shift.
Just keep saying to yourself, "Four millimeters....four millimeters".
I'd be exposed to frustration many times over for a hood prop or trunk hinges that crush luggage, which you and others here dismiss, than that 4 mm would ever affect me. Give me price, dealer availability, styling, build it here, if there's a recall Mr. U.S. executive, don't point to the President from (fill in the blank) and look like a deer in the headlights, and I'm in.
I don't care about a hood prop, but trunk hinges that intrude on room can be a problem.
Though it seems you do give up some trunk opening space by having the hinges on the sides.
Though hood props and trunk hinges are not areas I'd likely pick one car over another. There are to many other areas I care about far more.
Here's a link I took about thirty seconds to find, from a Cobalt forum, that shows that someone else besides me heard about the Lordstown repair shop being the cause of that one steering wheel:
"if you read through the posts on that link, someone posted that GM said the car was manufactured with the wrong wheel, and a repair shop replaced the wheel, and didn't tighten it down properly... "
It's indefensible, but GM's recall numbers of late are so miniscule compared to foreign manufacturers which get such a free pass here.
I really don't know, but I know that when the Cobalt was built, it had the hood that stayed open by itself, and no gooseneck hinges, when higher-priced cars did not.
Really it's crazy to compare the trunk of a Camry to a Cobalt regardless of where the hinges are, there is far more room in the trunk of the Camry.
I'm only looking at photos, but it appears to me you do give up trunk opening space with outboard/non intrusive hinges. Non intrusive hinges don't mean much if the package doesn't fit through the opening.
No question about that. I'm sure you get far more than a fancy badge if you decide to buy a new XTS over the new Impala.
Didn't I just hear a recall for windshield wipers on Fords?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Even worse in a Matrix. What normally fits in my Cobalt without a stretch falls over the back of the back seat of the Matrix.