Well... they usually don't sell the model home until all the others are already sold, so there's some wear and tear (no longer a new home). I hope they adjusted your price accordingly.
All that being said you still bought it. I have a feeling your negativity has more to do with PRODUCT quality than assembly/construction quality.
If it was slapped together poorly, wouldn't you have noticed that before you bought it? Maybe the seller was desperate and not into maintaining the "model" properly?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I can't address the "premium" status of the Verano.
But, I compared the deluxe model Verano to a 2008 Nissan Altima. The Verano has 180 HP at 3300 lbs net weight, and the Altima has 175 HP at 3050 lbs net weight. Both are 4 cyl. Normal aspirated. The Altima has a CVT, and the Verano has a traditional auto.
I haven't driven a Verano, but my daughter has an Altima as described above, which appears to me, at least, to have plenty of power for an average sedan. Perhaps the 250 lbs extra weight comes into play, but I wouldn't imagine it would make a radical difference.
Perhaps the Buick brand generates higher expectations than a Nissan. That seems to be, to me at least, a valid argument. Both seem on the surface to be priced comparably.
From what I've read a 4cyl Altima is in the mid 7 to 8 second 0-60 vs about a second slower for the Verano. Completely different cars though. The Altima is a sporty family sedan.
Plus an all new Altima is on the way which Nissan claims will get 27city/37hwy vs 21/32 for the Verano. If the Altima fuel economy ratings hold up, that will indeed be interesting. Nissan is also claiming the v6 Altima will get 22/30 along with best acceleration in the class, so it will like be under 6 seconds 0-60.
I wonder if the Verano will get the new ecotec 2.5 when it comes out?
I'd expect the Verano to possibly have a better ride, quieter and plusher interior.
Honestly, I think I'd rather have a Cruze over the Verano, so I could get a manual trans.
Oh, I agree the cars are aimed at target markets, and are completely different in design.
I didn't mean to suggest they were comparable in any way other than power.
My only point was to say that, at least for me, I don't think the power-to-weight ratios are so different in the current models (Altima & Verano) available today, so therefore I don't think i would personally find the current Verano underpowered.
Since you use the word 'sales', aren't 'sales', 'sales' to the ultimate consumer?
Not if they're sales to the dealer, who marks up the product and sells to the consumer.
Sales are whatever you define them to be. But GM does not sell directly to consumers, it sells to dealers (middlemen). Somebody correct me if this is incorrect.
Beats supporting a Korean-owned company, guy. They're all great guys over there.
By this logic, it's the *ownership* that is important. So it's better to support a US-owned company like GM that had people like Lutz and Wagoner and makes tons of product in places like China, than to support companies like Honda that have foreign owners (unless you count stockholders, which could be anywhere), but make tons of vehicles here and also employ large numbers of US citizens.
I'm not all that inclined to support US owners of companies that make big buffoon mistakes and get mega-million dollar salaries as they jet around the company in their incompetence. I'd rather support the owners of companies like Apple, or Microsoft, or Boeing - companies that at least make superior products in their industries. In that way, at least their owners are a bit more worth it than the owners of failing companies.
But to each his own. The real success of any company is how many people support them en masse. Market share is a good indicator of competitiveness.
When sales are reported every month....sales of this model are up, total sales are down, etc....are all the manufacturers not talking about sales to the ultimate consumer? I mean, I have an accounting degree and I'm having a hard time believing the actual term 'sales' means anything else. It's not like GM's dealers are 100% independent of GM and have nothing to do with a 'sale'.
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tlong, please tell me about all the Chinese-made finished product sold by GM in North America. I can easily tell you about the other companies' products built in various places around the world and the final product sold here. And I'm not talking, either, about cherry-picking one product that is made in Mexico. Again, it's so simple to shop American when looking at the content label AND brand-name.
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GM reports 2 sales figures. Corporate sales in dollars reflecting shipments and payments by dealers.
The DEALERS report unit sales to the customer. The actual corporate financial statments reflect the original sales to the dealer. The unit sales are the sales to customers each month. Timing is different. OK?
The term used in financial statements is actually "sales", when they are talking about shipments to dealers?
When "sales" are reported in the media, isn't it sales to the ultimate consumer? I'm not going to search for "GM sales" in this forum, as it'll get a zillion hits, but I seem to remember people here talking that GM reported "SALES" to the media, as shipments to dealers, as opposed to other manufacturers, which is indeed laughable.
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Edmunds Insideline has a full review of the new Malibu Eco. Overall it was positive. Though looking at how much it costs, fuel economy/performance which really isn't much better than what else is coming out in the segment, I think I'd pass on the Eco and wait for the new 2.5 or 2.0 Turbo (But I'd have to do a line by line comparison of content as the it appears The Eco comes with quite a bit of standard equipment to help justify its $26k base price). Considering how well the Camry is selling, then add a new Fusion, Altima, and Accord, the Malibu will likely sell well enough, but I don't see it challenging the leaders much.
If gas mileage is a priority, why would you buy this over a Camry Hybrid that yields far greater FE at the same base price? 43 city vs 25 for the Eco is a huge difference. IMO, you just buy the real hybrids from Toyota, Ford, or Hyundai. Plus it looks like the new Altima will come very cose to the Eco's FE ratings and it will have a base price thousands less (once again, content needs to be compared)
I wonder what kind of mileage can be expected from the new 2.5 Ecotec non Eco model.
You too huh? Was it built during the housing boom of the 80's? My parents house was and while it definitely fits the "McMansion District" it sure is cheaply built. My dad has had more issues with water damage, capenter ants and just plain rot than you can imagine. Shame too, because they paid a pretty penny for it... :sick:
Not only content should be compared, but actual selling prices, not just sticker prices.
I like the new Malibu's interior, and taillights, but the rest of it doesn't grab me very much. But definitely, nothing else in that size/price class does either....or maybe even as much. I'm happy it's built here, unlike the Fusion. I don't feel compelled to help support or promote Mexico, or reward the manufacturer for building there, particularly with what's been happening there lately.
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We are the second owners. An elderly lady bought it, lived in it for five years and could no longer handle the nosebleed steps. But, going from an 80-year old house to a six-year-old house, I wasn't expecting squeaks all over the floors--very haphazard nailing and gluing, when viewed from underneath--cracks in walls, water running upstairs is unbelievably loud downstairs, one water valve shut-off in the whole basement, takes five minutes to get hot water in the master bath upstairs, etc. etc. etc.
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Seems like it's been that way for a long time. I've lived in and owned houses built in the 70's, 80's, 90's, and '00 and really haven't seen much difference in all of the corners that are cut. All of them had quality issues. Kind of like my domestic vehicles.
The newest house I've ever lived in was build in '76 iirc and it was solid. But it was owner built. The current 106 year old house we have isn't going anywhere soon. But all six we've owned over the years have had issues (what house doesn't?).
I'm barely hanging in there with two 1990 era vehicles. I sure wouldn't want to drive 99.9% of those built in the 80s, much less the 70s, whether built by GM in a "good" year or not.
Man, must be a function of age. I'd drive a '70's domestic over about anything '90-era, as a general statement.
My '66 Studebaker drives great IMHO...seating position, power, use of space, etc. It puts a smile on my face when I drive. Can't say that about either of my good, but not exactly-inspiring, domestics from 2008 and 2011.
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I do dislike driving my Stude in a lot of traffic, due to today's nanosecond-attention-span drivers. But in nearly 38 years of driving, I've never been in an accident. Probably jinx it, saying that on Friday the 13th!
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I don't have much experience with cars built prior to the 70's. But I used to have a '75 Regal and I certainly don't miss it. Other than being big, it didn't have many redeeming qualities. Performance was poor. My Expedition is quick, agile and fuel efficient in comparison. Run on, knocking, poor running when cold, stuck chokes, and on and on. That car was probably the last time I ever had to turn a car off in drive so it wouldn't keep running.
My grandpa bought it new. I remember it only being a few years old and he'd have to pop the hood and mess with the choke some mornings.
Also had a '71 Mustang convertible. Yes it was fun. But certainly not a car I'd want to drive everyday. It simply wasn't reliable enough and this was 20 years ago. I was just happy it would get back home on Friday nights without something failing. It too had sloppy handling, horrible brakes even with front disks, and atrocious fuel economy. It only had a 351C two barrel, yet I don't recall ever getting more than 12-14 mpg. Stop and go traffic was always a problem in the summer heat as it would want to overheat. No thanks. I'll take a new Mustang GT any day over any prior Mustang if I just want to enjoy driving. Now if I want something to drive once in a while and just have (and work on), that would be a different story. Man, I still remember the cowl shake. I don't think structural rigidity was a priority back then.
Seems like it's been that way for a long time. I've lived in and owned houses built in the 70's, 80's, 90's, and '00 and really haven't seen much difference in all of the corners that are cut. All of them had quality issues. Kind of like my domestic vehicles.
In the late 50's, Levitt and Sons bought up a bunch of land near my home, broke ground on some new construction, and put Bowie, MD on the map. At the time, everybody complained about how cheaply made those houses were. Main issues were no basements (concrete slab foundation, which makes plumbing repairs fun) and not much of a useful attic, thanks to the roof truss construction. They slapped those things together assembly line fashion, so there were all sorts of quality problems. Compared to most existing houses of the time, they WERE cheap and poorly constructed.
But, in the later 60's and 70's, and even through to today, I'm convinced things got even worse. Levitt built in Bowie and surrounding areas from roughly 1960 until 1976, when I think they got kicked out of Maryland for doing something shady and deceitful. The later houses definitely seem cheaper, compared to the earlier ones.
Yet today, with the way houses have gotten even cheaper, often people will look back romantically on those 60's Levitt homes through their rose-tinted glasses and say they don't build 'em like that anymore!
And, from the people I know who have bought newer houses, sadly that's true. Somehow, it seems like they've even found ways to make the wood they use cheaper these days. I've been working on replacing the roof on my porch, rafters, joists, and everything. The original house dates back to 1916, but I don't know how old the porch is...probably dates to the 30's. I don't think the concept of a 4x8 anything had been realized yet, so instead the roofing was comprised of 1x8 boards, and they're a thick, heavy wood like oak or hickory, I guess. Even after years of rot and decay, they were still sturdy enough to jump up and down on. The rafters and joists were only 2x4, but they were a "true", 2x4, not that 1 3/4 by 3 1/2 stuff they use today. And I swear those old 2x4's seemed more beefy than a modern 2x6!.
I doubt that the repairs I made to the roof will last 70+ years like the original stuff did. But, at the same time, I don't need it to. Chances are I won't be alive in 70 years, as that would put me at 112! And I'm sure by then, the house will be long since sold, the property subdivided, and sprouting another crop of cheaply built tract McMansions.
The Avalanche is interesting, but in the end probably has too many compromises. It doesn't have the interior room of a Suburban, or the towing, hauling ability of a pickup. Plus they are priced like a Suburban.
They still sold 20k last year, I guess it will cost to much to develop a new Avalanche off the new platform.
I'll be curious to see if Honda will keep building the Ridgeline. It sells in fewer numbers than the Avalanche.
250 lbs does make a noticeable difference (That's like having an overweight passenger in your car at all times). Furthermore, the Nissan probably has more torque in it's 2.5 than the Verano in it's 2.4... (not to mention the much quicker 0-60 MPH times).
I'll trade 5 HP for a 250 lb. weight reduction anyday of the week.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I wasn't expecting squeaks all over the floors--very haphazard nailing and gluing, when viewed from underneath--cracks in walls, water running upstairs is unbelievably loud downstairs, one water valve shut-off in the whole basement, takes five minutes to get hot water in the master bath upstairs, etc. __________)))))))))
Wow... sounds like maybe the UAW has gotten into the home building business! :P Or maybe some laid off UAW workers joined the different and various construction unions. Do you know if your home was "union" built?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I can see some of the appeal of driving a cool old car. Driving around in my old mechanic's 1981 Audi GT Coupe for a day was very cool. I felt instant appeal knowing that I was driving something very rare on the road these days. It's not just that it was 30 years old at the time, but it was holding up in pretty good condition considering.
However... that wore off as I realized why I don't like old cars. Issues with starting the car because it's very tempermental (floor it when it's already warmed up and hot outside, turn the key, no gas when it's cold, turn the key, wait a few cranks and it'll start *hopefully*.
If you don't do it just right, it won't start. Radios that don't turn off when you take out the keys which is why it wouldn't start another time (drained battery). Took a lot of JUICE to jump it; had to rev the other car to 4K rpm's. Worrying about if it'll start or not; no thanks.
I'll stick with modern cars.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Same here - our "new" house (it's about 7 yrs old) has had some build-quality issues. It's the way they get you to buy it - all of the stuff that you notice when you're viewing the house is excellent. The kitchen is top-notch, really nice plumbing finish fixtures, great countertops (applies to the bathroom as well). They saved all of the cheap parts and work for things you don't notice til after you've bought the house.
Every time there's a storm with wind, we lose shingles. We're replacing the tiles one by one. The furnace has had to have parts replaced every year for the past 4 years. The dishwasher is just awful. The front door used to leak, til we fixed it. Kind of a shame, but at least my SO is very handy, and it's not been anything major yet.
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I think it's time we make home builders match the car makers' warranties. You should make them match GM's 5 year 100K warranty..... except homes don't move....
Perhaps a 5 year "exterior wall to exterior wall" warranty that's good for at least one repair even if you don't use it in the first 5 years, up to 10 years maximum.
The standard typical 1 year warranty in construction is bogus. It's time we specify longer guarantees.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
To get (myself) back on topic, our nearly 15-year-old Chevy pickup truck is a fine work of mechanical craftsmanship. It's not much to look at, and the interior is fairly cheap (but so was the truck), but the engine is rock-solid. The only parts we've replaced are the water fuel pump and the radiator. Fuel pump was pretty much a given. The radiator? Who knows. It leaked. May have been a part issue or it got hit by something. For $300, not worth worrying about. Oh, and some A/C hose... again, no big deal on a truck that old that starts & stops on command, every time.
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I wasn't attempting to tout the virtues of the Verano.
But, what is the average age of a Buick buyer? It's over 50, and I doubt many looking at a Verano care much about 0-60, as long as the car has reasonable acceleration. I don't think it's offered in anything but an automatic version, so my guess the car is targeted towards a Buick Century type owner of the mid 1980's. And, I don't remember many Century owners being performance oriented.
I suspect the CVT aids the faster 0-60 times in the Altima as well.
I'm 58, and personally the Verano doesn't appeal to my taste. there are too many other makes/models I like much better.
My wife's parents started building their house shortly before Pearl Harbor, and immediately after the attack, many building materials were on a rationed basis.
Some of the rationing was just weird. For example, pine lumber was rationed, but oak wasn't, so the entire outside of the house was sheathed/clad in oak 1 x 6's. The oak was so dense and hard, they had to drill pilot holes in it so they could install asbestos siding - the nails would bend without the pilot holes (my, how times have changed in that regard).
We used to joke that the sides of the house could sustain shellfire from a Sherman tank.
It took 11/2 years to finish the house, sans water heater, because they were on the rationed list, so they moved in without one. 3 months later, 1 became available, but it was a 80 gallon (huge) round model. They jumped at it. That same water heater lasted until the early 1990's before we replaced it.
Can you imagine a water heater with such a long lifespan today?
Get ready for more criticism. The Eco finished dead last in a C/D comparo of 2012 mid-sizers. C/D testers agree with you to wait for the non-H versions.
The car was criticized for having a "claustrophobic cockpit" and not being much fun. The claim to fame of high gas mileage by GM on the vehicle also left testers unimpressed as three higher rated cars got the same mileage. Perhaps GM should have focused on the most important category for car sales instead of on a seldom-selling, plug-in, "green" segment that does nothing to help the company's bottom line.
Before the "GM apologists" and patriotic local-only supporters get a chance to whine....
As we visited the Toy Barn, a civilian approached and said of our Malibu, “I’m glad you’ve got at least one American car in the mix.” Fun fact: Every car in this comparo is built in America.
A reporter wonders about Chevy's reputation abroad. If you did not grow up in the US, email pr@edmunds.com by 4pm Eastern today, April 13, 2012, to share your thoughts on Chevy's reputation back home.
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Can you imagine a water heater with such a long lifespan today?
Just got a new one put in my house and supposedly has a 20 year warranty. Don't know the specifics but supposedly the materials they are using today are better than they were. Also helps to have a water filtration system to minimize the corrosive particulates.
I really need to get back on the topic of cars...
Btw, I still stand by my assertion that the new Impala looks fantastic.
Except... that one strip of metal before the hood. It just looks so tacked on, the cutlines ruin the front end for me.
As we visited the Toy Barn, a civilian approached and said of our Malibu, “I’m glad you’ve got at least one American car in the mix.” Fun fact: Every car in this comparo is built in America.
Of course, assembly is only part of it. I truly have no idea of content percentages of any of those cars. I noticed with the Cruze that the NA-content percentage went up through the production run after introduction; I don't know that about the Malibu.
Which of those companies employs the most Americans and also the most suppliers?
The "ECO" thing is not an enticement to me whatsoever. If whatever engine comes out later is less expensive, that's fine with me. The Cruze ECO does entice me as the mileage is amazing and I drive a stick in our second car; plus I like the ECO-exclusive-wheels.
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Get ready for more criticism. The Eco finished dead last in a C/D comparo of 2012 mid-sizers. C/D testers agree with you to wait for the non-H versions.
From C&D or MT? As my 17-year old daughter would say, "Shocker".
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But in nearly 38 years of driving, I've never been in an accident. Probably jinx it, saying that on Friday the 13th!
lol, didn't even notice the date until you posted.
I really loved my old VW Bugs and thought about finding one when we lived in Boise. While that idea was percolating, some gentleman around my age (teacher iirc) with similar experiences started driving one around town. Sure enough, he got in a low speed (45mph?) wreck and died.
No traffic around here but it'd be my luck to run into a deer.
Back to the Avalanche (good point about the Escalade going away too, Tjc78), my nephew is bummed that they are going to quit making them.
Here in the East, my 18-YO daughter would say "What-EvEr".
I assume you didn't notice the piece regarding how razor close the differences are becoming.
BTW, I agree the new Impala looks pretty darn good!
The most American vehicle for 2012 probably isn't going to be a Ford, or General Motors product, or even a Chrysler or Jeep. It's most likely going to be the 2012 Toyota Camry.
That's according to the federal government's annual U.S./Canadian parts-content figures, as posted on new-car window stickers and required by the American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA).
According to Toyota, the gasoline version will have a market-leading 92-percent North American-sourced parts. Content for the 2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid—with its Japan-sourced battery pack and drive components—will be 59. But since the window-sticker percentages are calculated on a 'carline' basis, that still calculates to an estimated combined AALA figure of 89 percent for the 2012 Camry lineup.
Although the location of final assembly doesn't affect a vehicle's North American content figure, all four-cylinder and V-6 Camry models will be built at Georgetown, Kentucky, or Lafayette, Indiana (beside the Subaru Legacy and Outback); but Hybrids will be built either in Japan or in Georgetown
I'm 58, and personally the Verano doesn't appeal to my taste. there are too many other makes/models I like much better
I've always thought the Marketing people are screwed up when it comes to "over 50" consumers. First of all, you really can't stereotype their behavior and never really could. Back in the 60's some would move up to big Buicks and Chryslers, but others opted for sportier Riviera's or Thunderbirds, while some spent their money elsewhere and stuck with Impala's. Second, ignoring them is foolish because they tend to have a higher percentage of discretionary income and finally, focusing on younger buyers to lock them in with product loyalty was always a false journey. What people like or need varies at different points in their life. A young person who buys a Ford or Honda today is just as likely to buy some other brand next time...and the same goes for a 50 or 60 year old.
I think the quality of building products has generally been going down for some time with maybe the exception of electronic components. You still see beer cans from the stick building construction crews in the foundations while houses are being built as well. Ironically, the quality of factory built houses seems to have improved markedly, but most cities restrict you from putting one of those on a lot within city limits - probably to protect the building trades jobs.
That is great about the gasoline-powered Camry, but I still would like it better if it didn't look like that, and also if when there's a recall, the North American head of operations doesn't look like a deer in the headlights and has to totally defer to Mr. Toyoda. The big decisions are apparently still coming out of Japan.
Don't get me wrong; today's Toyotas coming out of Kentucky are a lot better for this country than when all of them came from Japan, IMHO.
We discussed this a lot last year, but for how "All-American" the Japanese manufacturers are supposed to be, I'm still amazed how the awful tsunami (and it was awful, obviously) completely hamstrung even U.S. operations of those Japanese companies. The Japanese parts those cars have must be major ones! And we're not talking about no black paint for trucks or whatever, we're talking that production went way, way down in general.
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The 1977-era GM B and C-body full-size cars are just about perfect for me! I still think about the awesome Charcoal Grey Firemist 1979 Buick Park Avenue with the 403 V-8 I had back in the day. Good God, that was a pretty and reliable car!
Lemko, I still daydream about having a white vinyl top over Firethorn Metallic '77 Caprice Classic Coupe, 350, F41 suspension, plastic scooped-out spoke wheel covers, pinstripe whitewall Goodyear Eagles, Custom Interior option in red...perfect in every way for me. I think those B-bodies were the darling of the motoring press then, and even in '83 C&D had the Caprice on their "Ten Best Cars in the World" list, in its seventh year of that iteration. Of course, that was before it was uncool to like domestic iron.
I never owned such a Caprice, but there was that very car in town when I was college-age, except it was a sedan. The guy who owned the business supply store in town owned it.
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Comments
All that being said you still bought it. I have a feeling your negativity has more to do with PRODUCT quality than assembly/construction quality.
If it was slapped together poorly, wouldn't you have noticed that before you bought it? Maybe the seller was desperate and not into maintaining the "model" properly?
But, I compared the deluxe model Verano to a 2008 Nissan Altima. The Verano has 180 HP at 3300 lbs net weight, and the Altima has 175 HP at 3050 lbs net weight. Both are 4 cyl. Normal aspirated. The Altima has a CVT, and the Verano has a traditional auto.
I haven't driven a Verano, but my daughter has an Altima as described above, which appears to me, at least, to have plenty of power for an average sedan. Perhaps the 250 lbs extra weight comes into play, but I wouldn't imagine it would make a radical difference.
Perhaps the Buick brand generates higher expectations than a Nissan. That seems to be, to me at least, a valid argument. Both seem on the surface to be priced comparably.
Plus an all new Altima is on the way which Nissan claims will get 27city/37hwy vs 21/32 for the Verano. If the Altima fuel economy ratings hold up, that will indeed be interesting. Nissan is also claiming the v6 Altima will get 22/30 along with best acceleration in the class, so it will like be under 6 seconds 0-60.
I wonder if the Verano will get the new ecotec 2.5 when it comes out?
I'd expect the Verano to possibly have a better ride, quieter and plusher interior.
Honestly, I think I'd rather have a Cruze over the Verano, so I could get a manual trans.
I didn't mean to suggest they were comparable in any way other than power.
My only point was to say that, at least for me, I don't think the power-to-weight ratios are so different in the current models (Altima & Verano) available today, so therefore I don't think i would personally find the current Verano underpowered.
Of course, more power wouldn't hurt...
Not if they're sales to the dealer, who marks up the product and sells to the consumer.
Sales are whatever you define them to be. But GM does not sell directly to consumers, it sells to dealers (middlemen). Somebody correct me if this is incorrect.
By this logic, it's the *ownership* that is important. So it's better to support a US-owned company like GM that had people like Lutz and Wagoner and makes tons of product in places like China, than to support companies like Honda that have foreign owners (unless you count stockholders, which could be anywhere), but make tons of vehicles here and also employ large numbers of US citizens.
I'm not all that inclined to support US owners of companies that make big buffoon mistakes and get mega-million dollar salaries as they jet around the company in their incompetence. I'd rather support the owners of companies like Apple, or Microsoft, or Boeing - companies that at least make superior products in their industries. In that way, at least their owners are a bit more worth it than the owners of failing companies.
But to each his own. The real success of any company is how many people support them en masse. Market share is a good indicator of competitiveness.
Yes, but I'm allowed to make a mistake. GM is the one producing the product, right?
Yes, the Sonata had it's issues, agreed...and the quality ratings for the Optima for 2009 was second rate. Agreed.
Regards,
OW
GM reports 2 sales figures. Corporate sales in dollars reflecting shipments and payments by dealers.
The DEALERS report unit sales to the customer. The actual corporate financial statments reflect the original sales to the dealer. The unit sales are the sales to customers each month. Timing is different. OK?
Regards,
OW
When "sales" are reported in the media, isn't it sales to the ultimate consumer? I'm not going to search for "GM sales" in this forum, as it'll get a zillion hits, but I seem to remember people here talking that GM reported "SALES" to the media, as shipments to dealers, as opposed to other manufacturers, which is indeed laughable.
Yes, the sales in the FS are "daelr shipments and reflect invoicing to the dealers NOT actual unit sales to the customer.
Agreed, other mfg. do the exact same as GM. No difference but the higher inventory at dealers is a concern. GM is leading in this area.
Regards,
OW
If gas mileage is a priority, why would you buy this over a Camry Hybrid that yields far greater FE at the same base price? 43 city vs 25 for the Eco is a huge difference. IMO, you just buy the real hybrids from Toyota, Ford, or Hyundai. Plus it looks like the new Altima will come very cose to the Eco's FE ratings and it will have a base price thousands less (once again, content needs to be compared)
I wonder what kind of mileage can be expected from the new 2.5 Ecotec non Eco model.
I like the new Malibu's interior, and taillights, but the rest of it doesn't grab me very much. But definitely, nothing else in that size/price class does either....or maybe even as much. I'm happy it's built here, unlike the Fusion. I don't feel compelled to help support or promote Mexico, or reward the manufacturer for building there, particularly with what's been happening there lately.
I'm barely hanging in there with two 1990 era vehicles. I sure wouldn't want to drive 99.9% of those built in the 80s, much less the 70s, whether built by GM in a "good" year or not.
My '66 Studebaker drives great IMHO...seating position, power, use of space, etc. It puts a smile on my face when I drive. Can't say that about either of my good, but not exactly-inspiring, domestics from 2008 and 2011.
Even my 100 year old house has smoke and CO alarms.
In GM news, my nephew is going to be bummed.
GM to stop producing Chevrolet Avalanche (Detroit News).
He's got 270k on his and can't afford a new one at the moment. But his is still running good anyway.
I guess the Escalade version will go away too....
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
My grandpa bought it new. I remember it only being a few years old and he'd have to pop the hood and mess with the choke some mornings.
Also had a '71 Mustang convertible. Yes it was fun. But certainly not a car I'd want to drive everyday. It simply wasn't reliable enough and this was 20 years ago. I was just happy it would get back home on Friday nights without something failing. It too had sloppy handling, horrible brakes even with front disks, and atrocious fuel economy. It only had a 351C two barrel, yet I don't recall ever getting more than 12-14 mpg. Stop and go traffic was always a problem in the summer heat as it would want to overheat. No thanks. I'll take a new Mustang GT any day over any prior Mustang if I just want to enjoy driving. Now if I want something to drive once in a while and just have (and work on), that would be a different story. Man, I still remember the cowl shake. I don't think structural rigidity was a priority back then.
In the late 50's, Levitt and Sons bought up a bunch of land near my home, broke ground on some new construction, and put Bowie, MD on the map. At the time, everybody complained about how cheaply made those houses were. Main issues were no basements (concrete slab foundation, which makes plumbing repairs fun) and not much of a useful attic, thanks to the roof truss construction. They slapped those things together assembly line fashion, so there were all sorts of quality problems. Compared to most existing houses of the time, they WERE cheap and poorly constructed.
But, in the later 60's and 70's, and even through to today, I'm convinced things got even worse. Levitt built in Bowie and surrounding areas from roughly 1960 until 1976, when I think they got kicked out of Maryland for doing something shady and deceitful. The later houses definitely seem cheaper, compared to the earlier ones.
Yet today, with the way houses have gotten even cheaper, often people will look back romantically on those 60's Levitt homes through their rose-tinted glasses and say they don't build 'em like that anymore!
And, from the people I know who have bought newer houses, sadly that's true. Somehow, it seems like they've even found ways to make the wood they use cheaper these days. I've been working on replacing the roof on my porch, rafters, joists, and everything. The original house dates back to 1916, but I don't know how old the porch is...probably dates to the 30's. I don't think the concept of a 4x8 anything had been realized yet, so instead the roofing was comprised of 1x8 boards, and they're a thick, heavy wood like oak or hickory, I guess. Even after years of rot and decay, they were still sturdy enough to jump up and down on. The rafters and joists were only 2x4, but they were a "true", 2x4, not that 1 3/4 by 3 1/2 stuff they use today. And I swear those old 2x4's seemed more beefy than a modern 2x6!.
I doubt that the repairs I made to the roof will last 70+ years like the original stuff did. But, at the same time, I don't need it to. Chances are I won't be alive in 70 years, as that would put me at 112! And I'm sure by then, the house will be long since sold, the property subdivided, and sprouting another crop of cheaply built tract McMansions.
They still sold 20k last year, I guess it will cost to much to develop a new Avalanche off the new platform.
I'll be curious to see if Honda will keep building the Ridgeline. It sells in fewer numbers than the Avalanche.
Verano = compact
250 lbs does make a noticeable difference (That's like having an overweight passenger in your car at all times). Furthermore, the Nissan probably has more torque in it's 2.5 than the Verano in it's 2.4... (not to mention the much quicker 0-60 MPH times).
I'll trade 5 HP for a 250 lb. weight reduction anyday of the week.
__________)))))))))
Wow... sounds like maybe the UAW has gotten into the home building business! :P Or maybe some laid off UAW workers joined the different and various construction unions. Do you know if your home was "union" built?
However... that wore off as I realized why I don't like old cars. Issues with starting the car because it's very tempermental (floor it when it's already warmed up and hot outside, turn the key, no gas when it's cold, turn the key, wait a few cranks and it'll start *hopefully*.
If you don't do it just right, it won't start. Radios that don't turn off when you take out the keys which is why it wouldn't start another time (drained battery). Took a lot of JUICE to jump it; had to rev the other car to 4K rpm's. Worrying about if it'll start or not; no thanks.
I'll stick with modern cars.
Every time there's a storm with wind, we lose shingles. We're replacing the tiles one by one.
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2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Perhaps a 5 year "exterior wall to exterior wall" warranty that's good for at least one repair even if you don't use it in the first 5 years, up to 10 years maximum.
The standard typical 1 year warranty in construction is bogus. It's time we specify longer guarantees.
To get (myself) back on topic, our nearly 15-year-old Chevy pickup truck is a fine work of mechanical craftsmanship. It's not much to look at, and the interior is fairly cheap (but so was the truck), but the engine is rock-solid. The only parts we've replaced are the water fuel pump and the radiator. Fuel pump was pretty much a given. The radiator? Who knows. It leaked. May have been a part issue or it got hit by something. For $300, not worth worrying about. Oh, and some A/C hose... again, no big deal on a truck that old that starts & stops on command, every time.
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I wasn't attempting to tout the virtues of the Verano.
But, what is the average age of a Buick buyer? It's over 50, and I doubt many looking at a Verano care much about 0-60, as long as the car has reasonable acceleration. I don't think it's offered in anything but an automatic version, so my guess the car is targeted towards a Buick Century type owner of the mid 1980's. And, I don't remember many Century owners being performance oriented.
I suspect the CVT aids the faster 0-60 times in the Altima as well.
I'm 58, and personally the Verano doesn't appeal to my taste. there are too many other makes/models I like much better.
Some of the rationing was just weird. For example, pine lumber was rationed, but oak wasn't, so the entire outside of the house was sheathed/clad in oak 1 x 6's. The oak was so dense and hard, they had to drill pilot holes in it so they could install asbestos siding - the nails would bend without the pilot holes (my, how times have changed in that regard).
We used to joke that the sides of the house could sustain shellfire from a Sherman tank.
It took 11/2 years to finish the house, sans water heater, because they were on the rationed list, so they moved in without one. 3 months later, 1 became available, but it was a 80 gallon (huge) round model. They jumped at it. That same water heater lasted until the early 1990's before we replaced it.
Can you imagine a water heater with such a long lifespan today?
The car was criticized for having a "claustrophobic cockpit" and not being much fun. The claim to fame of high gas mileage by GM on the vehicle also left testers unimpressed as three higher rated cars got the same mileage. Perhaps GM should have focused on the most important category for car sales instead of on a seldom-selling, plug-in, "green" segment that does nothing to help the company's bottom line.
Before the "GM apologists" and patriotic local-only supporters get a chance to whine....
As we visited the Toy Barn, a civilian approached and said of our Malibu, “I’m glad you’ve got at least one American car in the mix.” Fun fact: Every car in this comparo is built in America.
2013 Chevrolet Malibu Eco vs. 2012 Honda Accord EX-L, 2012 Hyundai Sonata SE, 2012 Kia Optima EX, 2012 Toyota Camry SE, 2012 Volkswagen Passat 2.5 SE
Regards,
OW
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Just got a new one put in my house and supposedly has a 20 year warranty. Don't know the specifics but supposedly the materials they are using today are better than they were. Also helps to have a water filtration system to minimize the corrosive particulates.
I really need to get back on the topic of cars...
Btw, I still stand by my assertion that the new Impala looks fantastic.
Except... that one strip of metal before the hood. It just looks so tacked on, the cutlines ruin the front end for me.
Of course, assembly is only part of it. I truly have no idea of content percentages of any of those cars. I noticed with the Cruze that the NA-content percentage went up through the production run after introduction; I don't know that about the Malibu.
Which of those companies employs the most Americans and also the most suppliers?
The "ECO" thing is not an enticement to me whatsoever. If whatever engine comes out later is less expensive, that's fine with me. The Cruze ECO does entice me as the mileage is amazing and I drive a stick in our second car; plus I like the ECO-exclusive-wheels.
From C&D or MT? As my 17-year old daughter would say, "Shocker".
lol, didn't even notice the date until you posted.
I really loved my old VW Bugs and thought about finding one when we lived in Boise. While that idea was percolating, some gentleman around my age (teacher iirc) with similar experiences started driving one around town. Sure enough, he got in a low speed (45mph?) wreck and died.
No traffic around here but it'd be my luck to run into a deer.
Back to the Avalanche (good point about the Escalade going away too, Tjc78), my nephew is bummed that they are going to quit making them.
I assume you didn't notice the piece regarding how razor close the differences are becoming.
BTW, I agree the new Impala looks pretty darn good!
The most American vehicle for 2012 probably isn't going to be a Ford, or General Motors product, or even a Chrysler or Jeep. It's most likely going to be the 2012 Toyota Camry.
That's according to the federal government's annual U.S./Canadian parts-content figures, as posted on new-car window stickers and required by the American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA).
According to Toyota, the gasoline version will have a market-leading 92-percent North American-sourced parts. Content for the 2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid—with its Japan-sourced battery pack and drive components—will be 59. But since the window-sticker percentages are calculated on a 'carline' basis, that still calculates to an estimated combined AALA figure of 89 percent for the 2012 Camry lineup.
Although the location of final assembly doesn't affect a vehicle's North American content figure, all four-cylinder and V-6 Camry models will be built at Georgetown, Kentucky, or Lafayette, Indiana (beside the Subaru Legacy and Outback); but Hybrids will be built either in Japan or in Georgetown
"SHOCKER!!"
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
I've always thought the Marketing people are screwed up when it comes to "over 50" consumers. First of all, you really can't stereotype their behavior and never really could. Back in the 60's some would move up to big Buicks and Chryslers, but others opted for sportier Riviera's or Thunderbirds, while some spent their money elsewhere and stuck with Impala's. Second, ignoring them is foolish because they tend to have a higher percentage of discretionary income and finally, focusing on younger buyers to lock them in with product loyalty was always a false journey. What people like or need varies at different points in their life. A young person who buys a Ford or Honda today is just as likely to buy some other brand next time...and the same goes for a 50 or 60 year old.
Don't get me wrong; today's Toyotas coming out of Kentucky are a lot better for this country than when all of them came from Japan, IMHO.
We discussed this a lot last year, but for how "All-American" the Japanese manufacturers are supposed to be, I'm still amazed how the awful tsunami (and it was awful, obviously) completely hamstrung even U.S. operations of those Japanese companies. The Japanese parts those cars have must be major ones! And we're not talking about no black paint for trucks or whatever, we're talking that production went way, way down in general.
I never owned such a Caprice, but there was that very car in town when I was college-age, except it was a sedan. The guy who owned the business supply store in town owned it.