Yeah, a 301 would be a complete dog. Buddy of mine had an '80 T/A with a 301 and it was slower than my '86 Escort (manual) to almost 50 when he could barely pass me.
I remember my dad's '92 Crown Vic would just blow it away. Pretty sad considering that was a 9 second 0-60 car.
Here's the '77 Caprice wheelcovers I always liked, although you gotta have the pinstripe whitewall, not these later wide-whites--also, this car has an aftermarket Landau top although it is not a Landau-model Caprice. Also, with the body side moldings, I'm not a fan of the upper-body pinstriping which was optional:
I'll go with Bonneville or LeSabre, but the 350 will do. Actually, today's V6 engines, and maybe even a few of the better four bangers would probably do a good job in one.
andre, that is a nice '77 Catalina, and I agree the dark green that year across GM was very nice. In that era Pontiac, I'd probably pick a '79 Bonneville coupe with the buckets and console, although outside I'd prefer no skirts and rocker trim that didn't really go almost halfway up the side...BUT...I like that Bonneville interior! I'd avoid the 301 and get whatever larger V8 I could.
Pontiac offered buckets and console in the Bonneville up through '81, but I've only ever seen '79's with it, and probably only one or two of those. It reminds me of the Grand Prix models of the sixties, and I consider it a nicer car than what a '79-81 Grand Prix actually was.
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My folks had a new red '77 Impala coupe quite like this one, but with the body side moldings. The Impala had pretty decent seat and door panel trim inside, but the dash was quite plasticky--the Caprice panel was far-better trimmed IMHO, and the Catalina dash was also far better:
I like the rear window of those coupes, but I remember joking that if you were inside the car and looking at somebody who walked behind the car, the person looked like a Picasso painting right around the wire bends!
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In some materials, I agree quality has diminished, especially things like framing lumber and wood trim. Most old-growth trees were harvested long ago, and much of those products now come from faster growing sources. There's no question the quality of real wood trim is lower today.
A lot of degradation, I think, is due to a change in application/installation methodology rather than a change in the actual materials themselves. Example: ceramic tile is the same, but I can't remember when I have seen it installed over a Masonry/expanded metal lath substrate... Tiles are nowadays just glued directly to, if you're fortunate, water resistant Sheetrock and then grouted. Different expansion and contraction characteristics guarantee cracked grout joints in that application.
Carpet, which used to be all wool, is now synthetic, and much easier to keep clean and last much longer. Countertop materials are far better than the old laminated plastics, too.
Plumbing has generally moved to Plastics from galvanized iron and copper, but that's pretty much a wash, since each has it's advantages and disadvantages. PVC drainpipe is probably better that the old cast-iron, oakum and lead-joint drainpipe, and certainly easier to repair.
Appliances certainly offer more options and functionality, but along with that comes the increased opportunity to malfunction. I remember my mom getting her first washing machine... It had no spin cycle, but a set of motor-driven rollers you manually shoved the wet clothes into to wring out the water. That machine would probably still be useable today if I had kept it throughout the years, but who would want to use it today?
Boy, thinking about that old washer brought back memories...
As far as gas mileage goes, the GM V6 engines have caught up to the 4 cylinder engine in hwy mpgs. This is based on my experience with the 3.6 and the 2.4. The first Impala I rented returned 34 mpg combined. The second one had a DIC and so I could compare it to my Malibu. The Impala runs about 1 mpg less than my Malibu in most interstate travel situations. The Impala averaged 32.7 in a 200 mile run into a stiff wind of up to 35 mph. The 4 cyl would suffer more loss into the wind. The Malibu mpgs consistently rose over the course of the first 14000 miles to date. The Impala is about 1 mpg behind with only 2200 miles on it. It could easily pull to even as it breaks in.
When sales are reported every month....sales of this model are up, total sales are down, etc....are all the manufacturers not talking about sales to the ultimate consumer? I mean, I have an accounting degree and I'm having a hard time believing the actual term 'sales' means anything else. It's not like GM's dealers are 100% independent of GM and have nothing to do with a 'sale'.
Well based upon the understanding of other posts on this forum, it seems that numerical sales of units are recorded at the retail buyer level, but sales at the accounting level are recorded as revenue upon shipment and payment by dealers. If you're an accountant then you'll understand that much better than me.
So for data like market share, etc. - uses retail sales. For revenue reports which are measured by value of shipments to dealers, if you overproduced for a couple of months and stuffed the channels without a corresponding increase in retail sales, it appears that the numbers would reflect the bloating of inventory and might be inflated -- but you couldn't keep that up, and there would be a compensatory decrease in sales when production ramped down to compensate for the excess inventory.
tlong, please tell me about all the Chinese-made finished product sold by GM in North America. I can easily tell you about the other companies' products built in various places around the world and the final product sold here. And I'm not talking, either, about cherry-picking one product that is made in Mexico. Again, it's so simple to shop American when looking at the content label AND brand-name.
I don't believe I ever said anything about Chinese made products from GM sold in North America. Although I do believe that GM is the only company that's ever sold vehicles in North America with Chinese-made engines in them.
My post also mentioned (at least for me) not wanting to support US owned companies just because of their ownership, if the executive management has shown themselves to be inept and incompetent while sucking millions of dollars off a company. I'd rather support companies (even foreign-owned) which employ US citizens and make excellent products. What is your thought on that?
Which of those companies employs the most Americans ...
To me this can be an artificial number. It would be inflated by bloated inefficient companies, even if the large numbers are unsustainable. So I would rephrase it as:
"Which of these companies has the largest US employment, in a profitable and sustainable configuration?"
Do dealers order cars, or do they have to take what's sent them? That doesn't seem like it'd be the reality. I'm sure in each franchise agreement there's probably a goal or at least a minimum to order, but it seems like ramping up just to ship unordered cars to dealers doesn't make a lot of sense. I wonder if GM actually calls movement of cars to dealers, "Sales" in their financials?
Usually when there are big inventories of cars on a company's dealers' lots, it's because certain models aren't selling all that well, as opposed to dumping for the sake of some phantom revenue number people are talking about.
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I guess I should say "Shocker" to most things the current flock of auto writers, who are generally a good bit younger than me, would review. The WSJ guy seemed to be as intent on writing in a smart-a** style as much as anything else.
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Carpet, which used to be all wool, is now synthetic, and much easier to keep clean and last much longer.
I don't like wall to wall carpet so I pulled the stuff up here. It was in good shape so I laid it out in the basement. It's 100% wool, came from Sears and the owner marked the installation year on the label on the back. 1952. :shades:
Went to a play last summer - solo performer and her main prop was an old wringer washer. One of those came with my old house too, but the wringers are all warped. Elsewhere I've mentioned the '52 Philco freezer left behind that does work. Even have the owner's manual.
I count myself lucky that the sellers didn't leave a '59 Impala in the garage though. Been there, done that.
My grandmother's house is ~50 years old, original owner, pristine, has original non-wall to wall carpet in the living room. It has worn amazingly well. Still has an original cooktop and overhead unit too, but the wall oven and fridge were replaced several years ago as she thought they were wasting energy :confuse: , and were showing some wear. I doubt many things from today will survive so well. The 65 Chrysler my grandfather parked in the garage is likely more durable than many newer cars, too.
Do dealers order cars, or do they have to take what's sent them? That doesn't seem like it'd be the reality. I'm sure in each franchise agreement there's probably a goal or at least a minimum to order, but it seems like ramping up just to ship unordered cars to dealers doesn't make a lot of sense. I wonder if GM actually calls movement of cars to dealers, "Sales" in their financials?
Other posters have said that the sales (in $$) count on the manufacturer's books when the vehicles are shipped to the dealers.
I guess the real question is whether the cars shipped to dealers are on consignment for the manufacturer, or whether the dealers actually "purchase" the vehicles in order to get them on their lots.
Volts sold 2289 this past month for the best month ever in sales!
"On the website of the Union of Concerned Scientists, a group that touts environmental solutions, one Volt owner, Jeff, noted that he has used just 23 gallons of gas in 13 months since purchasing his Volt. In that time, he's driven 13,500 miles – about 566 miles per gallon."
In that era Pontiac, I'd probably pick a '79 Bonneville coupe with the buckets and console, although outside I'd prefer no skirts and rocker trim that didn't really go almost halfway up the side...BUT...I like that Bonneville interior! I'd avoid the 301 and get whatever larger V8 I could.
Back in 1999, there was a local guy that had a white '79 Bonneville sedan with a blue vinyl roof and blue vinyl interior. One night, while delivering pizzas, I saw the guy outside, and stopped off to ask about it. He said that he was actually getting rid of it, donating it to charity. I asked if I could come back on one of my days off and check it out, and he said sure, but not to expect too much!
Turns out this one had a 350, but it was a Buick 350. I've heard rumors that you could still get a 400 or 403 that year, but according to the EPA's website and other sources, the Buick 350 was the best you could do. In California, it was replaced with an Olds 350.
Anyway, just going from a seat-of-my pants feel, I'd say that '79 Bonneville 350 was about as fas as my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, which had an Olds 307. The Bonneville would've had a bit more hp (155 or 170, according to my old car book versus 140 for the LeSabre) and I'm sure a bit more torque, but was also a bit heavier, and most likely had the THM350 transmission instead of the THM200-R4 that my grandmother's had. I think first gear in the THM200 series was quicker than in the THM350, and the axle ratio was definitely quicker. The '85 had a 2.73:1 while the '79 probably had a loafy 2.41:1.
I didn't have my Intrepid yet, and at the time my daily driver was an '89 Gran Fury ex copcar. That '79 was definitely a dog compared to it! This '79 was also in need of some work. The headliner had been taken down and glued back up in sections, and the tires were bald. The interior was a bit trashy in general, as this guy said he tended to use it to haul bags of topsoil and such! It was also a base level car, with no power accessories, and had the same cheap wheelcovers with the little holes in them that Sherriff Justice had on his '77 LeMans. So, I passed on it, and thanked the guy for letting me check it out.
FWIW, I hadn't realized this, but Pontiac actually dropped their own 350 after 1977! So in '78 if you bought a full-size Pontiac with the 350, it used a Buick unit in the big cars (Olds in Ca), or a Chevy in the Firebird. The LeMans/Grand Prix only offered a 301 or 305 by that time, but you could still get a Chevy 350 in a Phoenix...but only in California! I'm pulling this stuff from the EPA's website, so hopefully it's accurate...
I do like the bucket seat/center console that the Bonneville coupe offered, but I think I'd rather have a '77-78, when you could still get a 400 (403 in CA)
1980 was a bit of an odd year for the Catalina/Bonneville, when it came to engines. Normally, CA engines were considered a step down, because of the smog regulations. However, that year if you bought a Catalina/Bonneville in CA, the V-8 options were a Chevy 305-4bbl or Olds 350-4bbl. The rest of the country was stuck with the sucky Pontiac 265-2bbl or the 301-4bbl. Supposedly, the 265 wasn't too bad from a durability standpoint, as it simply wasn't strong enough to hurt itself! But the 301's tended to be troulblesome. I've heard from Pontiac guys at car shows that a 301 can be okay, if you don't stomp on it too much and if you keep up on oil changes (don't let it run low, go too long between changes, etc). And, I'm presuming, don't let it overheat!
I guess the real question is whether the cars shipped to dealers are on consignment for the manufacturer, or whether the dealers actually "purchase" the vehicles in order to get them on their lots.
It has to do with "dealer floor plan" financing. Ally/GMAC finances the dealer inventory at delivery (to the dealer).
I found this to shed some light and I'm sure all auto companies are guilty of "channel stuffing", although this might touch the "GM Faithful" nerve.
Anyhow, it underscores the "sale to customers", or unit sales, is secondary to GM's actual sales to dealers which are reported in all auto manufacturers financial statements.
The story gets more muddled. The Chevy Volt has now halted production due to channel stuffing, in which dealers are forced to take on more inventory than they can sell. This allows the parent company, GM, to claim credit for the sale. The sale to the eventual end consumer is secondary. GM has been running supply on certain vehicles like their light truck line at over 120 days. The norm is considered 60 days. GM is under pressure to show the sales growth so they can get the stock price up to allow the final sale of the government’s share of the IPO stock. The Volt has been a classic bait and switch in that consumers are drawn in under the pretense of buying the heavily subsidized Volt and then redirected into a model like the Cruze which dealers have on hand and are much more profitable.
Channel stuffing is not new, nor unique to GM. What is new and you’re not hearing about in the press is what is called dealer floor plan (DFP) financing under TARP. DFP is financing extended to auto dealers under the manufacturers credit arm in order to allow the dealer have a large inventory on-hand. The dealers could never afford the overhead cost of having to pay for the cars on their lots before they sell them to the consumer. What happens is the car is built and delivered allowing the manufacturer to claim the sale. The credit arm of the manufacturer pays for the car and then issues a loan to the dealer to allow them to keep the car on their lot until sold with a monthly interest charge per vehicle. The average dealer loan is $5 million dollars and the DFP industry is valued at $100 billion.
Why is the DFP plan under TARP different? Because what is normally an expense to dealers via the interest charged per car on their lot has now become a money maker. The end result is taxpayer financed channel stuffing. You are picking up the tab for dealers to have more inventory than they can sell.
But under this scenario, the sales to the dealers ARE UNIT SALES and GM reported sales!!! I stand corrected!!
> dealers are forced to take on more inventory than they can sell. This allows the parent company, GM, to claim credit for the sale. The sale to the eventual end consumer is secondary.
Sense there's no "source" listed or linked for the above statement, it can't have much, if any, credibility.
Then how did Volt sell 2286 in March? The factory has been closed and the channels were _supposedly_ already "stuffed" with fake sales.
I don't see folks debating over in toyota on the mend about how their sales are determined? Why does it continue to be a distraction in this forum. We've been over it many times. It's repetitive and boring. A new viewer coming in seeing this useless debate would switch channels to another forum very fast.
I had the wife's Malibu into the dealer this a.m. for a front-end alignment...steering wheel was slightly off which I can't stand. I actually sat in a '13 Malibu. I don't know what the dimensions say, but I definitely see and feel less rear-seat legroom than in our '11. The salesman said he agreed. And, I rode in the rear seat of ours just last night. One thing I noticed about the high-zoot Malibu in the showroom today, was that it had a leather pocket on the back of the front seats so any benefit by a carved-out area in the rear of the front seats, like our '11 with mesh netting there, seemed lost. The interior is nicer than ours, but I could care less about the "TV screen" as my kids call it, in the middle of the instrument panel.
No comments here on AOL this week calling the '12 Malibu the best buy of all cars out there now. In fact, the top three or four on their list were all GM products. "Best buy" = value and is not a bad thing, but I'm sure someone here will make it out to be. I'd expect no less. Just like buying from the plant down the road isn't a positive thing
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No comments here on AOL this week calling the '12 Malibu the best buy of all cars out there now. In fact, the top three or four on their list were all GM products. "Best buy" is not a bad thing, but I'm sure someone here will make it out to be. I'd expect no less. Just like buying from the plant down the road isn't a positive thing
I was waiting for that! I posted way back the Malibu was a great car and agree its tops on value.
But, after all it is America On Line, isn't it. I'm sure they are the top rag out there regarding the auto industry. CR/CD/MT/JDP Edmunds are third rate in comparison.
Then how did Volt sell 2286 in March? The factory has been closed and the channels were _supposedly_ already "stuffed" with fake sales.
Until March, sales of the Chevrolet Volt were disappointing. The company sold 7,671 Volts last year, below its goal of 10,000. GM had 6,319 Volts in its inventory at the end of February, enough to supply dealers for 154 days, according to Ward’s AutoInfoBank. A 60-day supply is considered optimal to keep a good selection of cars on dealer lots. GM Adding Week to Volt Plant’s Normal Summer Break
You clearly missed the Benz and the Camry, farther down the list. Hey, it's just counterpoint. I make my own decision where to spend $20K, not let some wiseguy pseudo-entertainers twenty years younger than me do so . The AOL listing is about value, more than subjective 'feel' or whatever is 'cool', and I'm value-driven, not image-driven.
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I don't see folks debating over in toyota on the mend about how their sales are determined
Because its a non-issue. Point data seldom means much in business. Time and trend is more important. As I tried to say earlier, whether one company recognized sale at time to dealer and another at time of consumer sale, it isn't going to make sa lot of difference over time. Kind of like LIFO and FIFO. Might matter during a shorter period, but not long term.
I think the GM (is it Lambda) crossovers like Acadia and Traverse are the nicest out there for non-lux. I think the next Impala will likely trump the Taurus and 300 too. Malibu sales face a lot of competition and the next Fusion is going to be a battle.
I'll say this, GM has done a good job differentiating the looks of the various Lambdas from each other. I really don't care for the styling of the Traverse, but CR says it's more reliable than the others .
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Anybody besides me (who'll admit it here) think Ford's new open-mouth look up front is...meh?
I saw a Five-Hundred on the Chevy dealer's used car lot this a.m. I think those cars were underrated. The looks were somewhat a blend of American and Euro, I think, I like the instrument panel, and they had a ton of room inside.
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one Volt owner, Jeff, noted that he has used just 23 gallons of gas in 13 months since purchasing his Volt. In that time, he's driven 13,500 miles – about 566 miles per gallon.
So, what kind of power plants served Jeff? Any with coal? What amount of coal was mined, transported and burned in power plant to serve his Volt's electricity hunger?
It's not too difficult to find exceptions to any rule.
My brother has a working model old-style Kelvinator fridge with the compressed mounted on top of the unit.
Still, you don't see many of them around.
Wool carpet was known for long life as long as it was properly cared for, just like old suits made of mohair. Pet stains (urine) were all but impossible to remove from wool carpets.
A childhood friend's dad has tons of old working appliance type items, from wax-cone style phonographs to slot machines, and everything in between. As a child, I marveled at all the old pinball machines he had that still worked perfectly. He even had music juke-box "things" ... I don't know what they were called, that played music by playing the actual instruments, something like a player piano. Pop in a quarter and hear some classical music. IIRC, they ran off a vacuum system, which he replaced with a more modern style canister vacuum.
That a good argument, and it certainly has some validity. Energy is still used, albeit in a different delivery system and form.
I see it a bit differently, though.
The electricity could also come from hydro or solar/wind sources.
The most important thing to me is that the Volt allows mobility in relative comfort on a greatly reduced consumption of a fuel that, while is easily transportable (gasoline), is also becoming increasingly more diffuse to produce.
No energy is free... Even solar requires the mining of certain materials, which adds cost.
Even hydrogen, the most abundant element, doesn't come without a cost.
I do think electrics make sense as long as they don't add load to the power grid at peak times. If we all go electric and insist on charging our Volts/Leafs from 9-5 then they don't make much sense at all.
So what do you attribute the surge in sales to ultimate consumers to, in the Volt?
#1 - News that Chevy Volt drivers could use California’s HOV lanes, an attractive leasing option in California. #2 - Gas prices keep rising.
#3 - Chevy Sales grew 16.3% (while Cadillac sales were down 13.4% and Buick was down 16.3% , which was the worst among major brands operating normally in the US). Chevy has the highest number of efficient vehicles in GM. More volume in Chevy translates to higher Volt sales and the rebates help quite a bit.
It's not too difficult to find exceptions to any rule.
I'm into textiles so I felt (ahem) that I had to stick up for the wool stuff.
I had a pinball machine back in the 70s and would enjoy another one. Got a kick out of playing a pinball game on my wife's iPad (can bump and tilt it), but I had to quit after my thumb started acting up after about 40 hours.
Like a lot of old cars, lots of that old stuff still works, but most is better left to the museum corner. Tail lights and starters were once innovations, but what's GM got coming around the corner?
I do think electrics make sense as long as they don't add load to the power grid at peak times. If we all go electric and insist on charging our Volts/Leafs from 9-5 then they don't make much sense at all.
If large amount of Volts being bought for use in CA, what happens to demand on electric power systems there? Had heard in recent years that CA was, maybe still is, derelict in adding more plants and capacity. Maybe lots of Volts there will bring brownouts.
Wonder if any progress in capturing energy in tides.
If you look at every element of style of the 2013 Fusion, EXCEPT the front-most 12 inches, it is very, very nice. Profile, rear, rear 3/4.
But, new Impala handles the front grill better, seems like it belongs with the rest of the car, integrates it into the whole car. Does a better job than the Fusion.
But, Impala has that funny looking curve line from middle of rear door to taillight. Not sure about that.
Comments
I remember my dad's '92 Crown Vic would just blow it away. Pretty sad considering that was a 9 second 0-60 car.
http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet/1977_Chevrolet/1977%20Chevrol- - et.html
Pontiac offered buckets and console in the Bonneville up through '81, but I've only ever seen '79's with it, and probably only one or two of those. It reminds me of the Grand Prix models of the sixties, and I consider it a nicer car than what a '79-81 Grand Prix actually was.
http://www.mclellansautomotive.com/photos/B28107-2.jpg
I like the rear window of those coupes, but I remember joking that if you were inside the car and looking at somebody who walked behind the car, the person looked like a Picasso painting right around the wire bends!
A lot of degradation, I think, is due to a change in application/installation methodology rather than a change in the actual materials themselves. Example: ceramic tile is the same, but I can't remember when I have seen it installed over a Masonry/expanded metal lath substrate... Tiles are nowadays just glued directly to, if you're fortunate, water resistant Sheetrock and then grouted. Different expansion and contraction characteristics guarantee cracked grout joints in that application.
Carpet, which used to be all wool, is now synthetic, and much easier to keep clean and last much longer. Countertop materials are far better than the old laminated plastics, too.
Plumbing has generally moved to Plastics from galvanized iron and copper, but that's pretty much a wash, since each has it's advantages and disadvantages. PVC drainpipe is probably better that the old cast-iron, oakum and lead-joint drainpipe, and certainly easier to repair.
Appliances certainly offer more options and functionality, but along with that comes the increased opportunity to malfunction. I remember my mom getting her first washing machine... It had no spin cycle, but a set of motor-driven rollers you manually shoved the wet clothes into to wring out the water. That machine would probably still be useable today if I had kept it throughout the years, but who would want to use it today?
Boy, thinking about that old washer brought back memories...
I'm surprised it's that old of an age...
That's Buick country...
For years I've been getting behind blue hairs in their Camry (Avalon) trying to see how to drive and goin' slow. Pull out in front of you.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well based upon the understanding of other posts on this forum, it seems that numerical sales of units are recorded at the retail buyer level, but sales at the accounting level are recorded as revenue upon shipment and payment by dealers. If you're an accountant then you'll understand that much better than me.
So for data like market share, etc. - uses retail sales. For revenue reports which are measured by value of shipments to dealers, if you overproduced for a couple of months and stuffed the channels without a corresponding increase in retail sales, it appears that the numbers would reflect the bloating of inventory and might be inflated -- but you couldn't keep that up, and there would be a compensatory decrease in sales when production ramped down to compensate for the excess inventory.
I don't believe I ever said anything about Chinese made products from GM sold in North America. Although I do believe that GM is the only company that's ever sold vehicles in North America with Chinese-made engines in them.
My post also mentioned (at least for me) not wanting to support US owned companies just because of their ownership, if the executive management has shown themselves to be inept and incompetent while sucking millions of dollars off a company. I'd rather support companies (even foreign-owned) which employ US citizens and make excellent products. What is your thought on that?
Too bad - a unique vehicle. Isn't the Avalanche one of the GMs that is recommended by CU?
To me this can be an artificial number. It would be inflated by bloated inefficient companies, even if the large numbers are unsustainable. So I would rephrase it as:
"Which of these companies has the largest US employment, in a profitable and sustainable configuration?"
And other product reviews from WSJ, CU, etc. - so many biased reviewers out there!
Realistically, a review is only an opinion. For each of us, we should get what makes us happy. Diversity is a good thing.
That kind of stuff has been hashed over and over here in this discussion:
Buying American Cars: What Does It Mean?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Usually when there are big inventories of cars on a company's dealers' lots, it's because certain models aren't selling all that well, as opposed to dumping for the sake of some phantom revenue number people are talking about.
I don't like wall to wall carpet so I pulled the stuff up here. It was in good shape so I laid it out in the basement. It's 100% wool, came from Sears and the owner marked the installation year on the label on the back. 1952. :shades:
Went to a play last summer - solo performer and her main prop was an old wringer washer. One of those came with my old house too, but the wringers are all warped. Elsewhere I've mentioned the '52 Philco freezer left behind that does work. Even have the owner's manual.
I count myself lucky that the sellers didn't leave a '59 Impala in the garage though. Been there, done that.
http://autos.aol.com/photos/best-cars-for-the-money-2/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmaing9- %7Cdl8%7Csec3_lnk1%26pLid%3D151871
Other posters have said that the sales (in $$) count on the manufacturer's books when the vehicles are shipped to the dealers.
I guess the real question is whether the cars shipped to dealers are on consignment for the manufacturer, or whether the dealers actually "purchase" the vehicles in order to get them on their lots.
Surely somebody must know the answer to this?
"On the website of the Union of Concerned Scientists, a group that touts environmental solutions, one Volt owner, Jeff, noted that he has used just 23 gallons of gas in 13 months since purchasing his Volt. In that time, he's driven 13,500 miles – about 566 miles per gallon."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Back in 1999, there was a local guy that had a white '79 Bonneville sedan with a blue vinyl roof and blue vinyl interior. One night, while delivering pizzas, I saw the guy outside, and stopped off to ask about it. He said that he was actually getting rid of it, donating it to charity. I asked if I could come back on one of my days off and check it out, and he said sure, but not to expect too much!
Turns out this one had a 350, but it was a Buick 350. I've heard rumors that you could still get a 400 or 403 that year, but according to the EPA's website and other sources, the Buick 350 was the best you could do. In California, it was replaced with an Olds 350.
Anyway, just going from a seat-of-my pants feel, I'd say that '79 Bonneville 350 was about as fas as my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, which had an Olds 307. The Bonneville would've had a bit more hp (155 or 170, according to my old car book versus 140 for the LeSabre) and I'm sure a bit more torque, but was also a bit heavier, and most likely had the THM350 transmission instead of the THM200-R4 that my grandmother's had. I think first gear in the THM200 series was quicker than in the THM350, and the axle ratio was definitely quicker. The '85 had a 2.73:1 while the '79 probably had a loafy 2.41:1.
I didn't have my Intrepid yet, and at the time my daily driver was an '89 Gran Fury ex copcar. That '79 was definitely a dog compared to it! This '79 was also in need of some work. The headliner had been taken down and glued back up in sections, and the tires were bald. The interior was a bit trashy in general, as this guy said he tended to use it to haul bags of topsoil and such! It was also a base level car, with no power accessories, and had the same cheap wheelcovers with the little holes in them that Sherriff Justice had on his '77 LeMans. So, I passed on it, and thanked the guy for letting me check it out.
FWIW, I hadn't realized this, but Pontiac actually dropped their own 350 after 1977! So in '78 if you bought a full-size Pontiac with the 350, it used a Buick unit in the big cars (Olds in Ca), or a Chevy in the Firebird. The LeMans/Grand Prix only offered a 301 or 305 by that time, but you could still get a Chevy 350 in a Phoenix...but only in California! I'm pulling this stuff from the EPA's website, so hopefully it's accurate...
I do like the bucket seat/center console that the Bonneville coupe offered, but I think I'd rather have a '77-78, when you could still get a 400 (403 in CA)
1980 was a bit of an odd year for the Catalina/Bonneville, when it came to engines. Normally, CA engines were considered a step down, because of the smog regulations. However, that year if you bought a Catalina/Bonneville in CA, the V-8 options were a Chevy 305-4bbl or Olds 350-4bbl. The rest of the country was stuck with the sucky Pontiac 265-2bbl or the 301-4bbl. Supposedly, the 265 wasn't too bad from a durability standpoint, as it simply wasn't strong enough to hurt itself! But the 301's tended to be troulblesome. I've heard from Pontiac guys at car shows that a 301 can be okay, if you don't stomp on it too much and if you keep up on oil changes (don't let it run low, go too long between changes, etc). And, I'm presuming, don't let it overheat!
It has to do with "dealer floor plan" financing. Ally/GMAC finances the dealer inventory at delivery (to the dealer).
I found this to shed some light and I'm sure all auto companies are guilty of "channel stuffing", although this might touch the "GM Faithful" nerve.
Anyhow, it underscores the "sale to customers", or unit sales, is secondary to GM's actual sales to dealers which are reported in all auto manufacturers financial statements.
The story gets more muddled. The Chevy Volt has now halted production due to channel stuffing, in which dealers are forced to take on more inventory than they can sell. This allows the parent company, GM, to claim credit for the sale. The sale to the eventual end consumer is secondary. GM has been running supply on certain vehicles like their light truck line at over 120 days. The norm is considered 60 days. GM is under pressure to show the sales growth so they can get the stock price up to allow the final sale of the government’s share of the IPO stock. The Volt has been a classic bait and switch in that consumers are drawn in under the pretense of buying the heavily subsidized Volt and then redirected into a model like the Cruze which dealers have on hand and are much more profitable.
Channel stuffing is not new, nor unique to GM. What is new and you’re not hearing about in the press is what is called dealer floor plan (DFP) financing under TARP. DFP is financing extended to auto dealers under the manufacturers credit arm in order to allow the dealer have a large inventory on-hand. The dealers could never afford the overhead cost of having to pay for the cars on their lots before they sell them to the consumer. What happens is the car is built and delivered allowing the manufacturer to claim the sale. The credit arm of the manufacturer pays for the car and then issues a loan to the dealer to allow them to keep the car on their lot until sold with a monthly interest charge per vehicle. The average dealer loan is $5 million dollars and the DFP industry is valued at $100 billion.
Why is the DFP plan under TARP different? Because what is normally an expense to dealers via the interest charged per car on their lot has now become a money maker. The end result is taxpayer financed channel stuffing. You are picking up the tab for dealers to have more inventory than they can sell.
But under this scenario, the sales to the dealers ARE UNIT SALES and GM reported sales!!! I stand corrected!!
Don't shoot the messenger!
Regards,
OW
Sense there's no "source" listed or linked for the above statement, it can't have much, if any, credibility.
Then how did Volt sell 2286 in March? The factory has been closed and the channels were _supposedly_ already "stuffed" with fake sales.
I don't see folks debating over in toyota on the mend about how their sales are determined?
Why does it continue to be a distraction in this forum. We've been over it many times. It's repetitive and boring. A new viewer coming in seeing this useless debate would switch channels to another forum very fast.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
No comments here on AOL this week calling the '12 Malibu the best buy of all cars out there now. In fact, the top three or four on their list were all GM products. "Best buy" = value and is not a bad thing, but I'm sure someone here will make it out to be. I'd expect no less. Just like buying from the plant down the road isn't a positive thing
I was waiting for that! I posted way back the Malibu was a great car and agree its tops on value.
But, after all it is America On Line, isn't it.
Regards,
OW
Until March, sales of the Chevrolet Volt were disappointing. The company sold 7,671 Volts last year, below its goal of 10,000. GM had 6,319 Volts in its inventory at the end of February, enough to supply dealers for 154 days, according to Ward’s AutoInfoBank. A 60-day supply is considered optimal to keep a good selection of cars on dealer lots.
GM Adding Week to Volt Plant’s Normal Summer Break
That's how.
Regards,
OW
Because its a non-issue. Point data seldom means much in business. Time and trend is more important. As I tried to say earlier, whether one company recognized sale at time to dealer and another at time of consumer sale, it isn't going to make sa lot of difference over time. Kind of like LIFO and FIFO. Might matter during a shorter period, but not long term.
I saw a Five-Hundred on the Chevy dealer's used car lot this a.m. I think those cars were underrated. The looks were somewhat a blend of American and Euro, I think, I like the instrument panel, and they had a ton of room inside.
So, what kind of power plants served Jeff? Any with coal? What amount of coal was mined, transported and burned in power plant to serve his Volt's electricity hunger?
My brother has a working model old-style Kelvinator fridge with the compressed mounted on top of the unit.
Still, you don't see many of them around.
Wool carpet was known for long life as long as it was properly cared for, just like old suits made of mohair. Pet stains (urine) were all but impossible to remove from wool carpets.
A childhood friend's dad has tons of old working appliance type items, from wax-cone style phonographs to slot machines, and everything in between. As a child, I marveled at all the old pinball machines he had that still worked perfectly. He even had music juke-box "things" ... I don't know what they were called, that played music by playing the actual instruments, something like a player piano. Pop in a quarter and hear some classical music. IIRC, they ran off a vacuum system, which he replaced with a more modern style canister vacuum.
Ungainly, awkward, but still way, way better then GM styling experiment, Aztek.
I see it a bit differently, though.
The electricity could also come from hydro or solar/wind sources.
The most important thing to me is that the Volt allows mobility in relative comfort on a greatly reduced consumption of a fuel that, while is easily transportable (gasoline), is also becoming increasingly more diffuse to produce.
No energy is free... Even solar requires the mining of certain materials, which adds cost.
Even hydrogen, the most abundant element, doesn't come without a cost.
I do think electrics make sense as long as they don't add load to the power grid at peak times. If we all go electric and insist on charging our Volts/Leafs from 9-5 then they don't make much sense at all.
#1 - News that Chevy Volt drivers could use California’s HOV lanes, an attractive leasing option in California.
#2 - Gas prices keep rising.
#3 - Chevy Sales grew 16.3% (while Cadillac sales were down 13.4% and Buick was down 16.3% , which was the worst among major brands operating normally in the US). Chevy has the highest number of efficient vehicles in GM. More volume in Chevy translates to higher Volt sales and the rebates help quite a bit.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
I'm into textiles so I felt (ahem) that I had to stick up for the wool stuff.
I had a pinball machine back in the 70s and would enjoy another one. Got a kick out of playing a pinball game on my wife's iPad (can bump and tilt it), but I had to quit after my thumb started acting up after about 40 hours.
Like a lot of old cars, lots of that old stuff still works, but most is better left to the museum corner. Tail lights and starters were once innovations, but what's GM got coming around the corner?
Ungainly, awkward, but still way, way better then GM styling experiment, Aztek.
That was then. This is now. Go Mexico!
Lots of value at Wal-Mart, too. Yet people complain about them.
So is GM the Wal-Mart of auto manufacturers?
That Acura is hideous. I'm reminded of "The Joker" on Batman every time I see one. Seriously.
If large amount of Volts being bought for use in CA, what happens to demand on electric power systems there? Had heard in recent years that CA was, maybe still is, derelict in adding more plants and capacity. Maybe lots of Volts there will bring brownouts.
Wonder if any progress in capturing energy in tides.
But, new Impala handles the front grill better, seems like it belongs with the rest of the car, integrates it into the whole car. Does a better job than the Fusion.
But, Impala has that funny looking curve line from middle of rear door to taillight. Not sure about that.