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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,865
    edited December 2012
    Painting with a broad brush? He just set off a bomb in a paint factory! That comment was most-definitely uncalled-for!

    LOL, lemko, thanks. And I've been called 'crazy' here.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, I wanted to talk about how stupid GM was to announce the 2014 Silverados while they've got 120+ days of inventory on the 2013s that will now collect dust while people wait for the 2014s to show up (unless GM puts stacks of cash on the 2013s). But no one else wanted to. :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,865
    edited December 2012
    And it being general knowledge that a new model is coming out, while the old ones are still on sale, is different from......what?

    All the manufacturers do this.

    Still haven't seen a new Chevy "SS" for sale though. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    edited December 2012
    Actually, the one that will be debuting will be the 2014. The 2013s are the ones that are being delivered, and parked in the beds of the remaining 2012s. :shades: Generally manufacturers don't hamstring their dealers by forcing inventory down their throat and then immediately making it harder to sell it. Unless the manufacturer is GM apparently.

    The Chevy SS is coming late next year. Unless you want the NASCAR version, in which case it's already here.

    "The 2013 Chevrolet SS will be based on the 2014 Chevrolet SS performance sedan, which tears into dealer showrooms in late 2013. "

    http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/2013-chevy-ss-reveal.html
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >Eisenhower built the Interstates in order to make automobiles more useful and therefore increase sales.

    I thought they were a secret plan by GM to sell more cars by building more roads on which to drive them. :blush:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Not that GM doesn't deserve some of this bashing, but it surprises me that there is little on these boards about all of Ford's recent mess ups. Let's see, I think most every launch from Fiesta to Focus to Escape to Fusion has been botched initially and the guy in charge while this has been happening, Mark Fields, now appears to be penalized for these screw ups by being named CEO heir apparent???
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Not that GM doesn't deserve some of this bashing, but it surprises me that there is little on these boards about all of Ford's recent mess ups.

    I'm likely the biggest Ford fan on this forum, and I've brought up Ford issues. And that's why despite generally liking Ford products, I know a lemon could just be a purchase away.

    I think Ford has done a better job than GM with maintaining profit margins, keeping production inline with demand etc, and generally keeping their lineup fresh (besides lincoln of course) but the quality issues that have happened lately are inexcusable and I wouldn't blame anyone from avoiding a Ford because of them.

    But in all honesty, these issues are nothing new for Ford. They always seem to screw up right when it looks like they've got it figured out.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2012
    I've been following Ford's "regression" somewhat...

    There is supposedly a "fix" for the Escape 1.6 Ecoburst-into-flames recall now.

    http://www.product-reviews.net/2012/12/11/2013-ford-fusion-escape-recall-solved-- - - with-an-update/

    We can now tell you that the 2013 Ford Fusion and Escape recall issue can be solved with an update, which will come as good news for those affected owners. To fix your 2013 Escape and 2013 Fusion all you need to do is take your vehicle down to your nearest Ford garage and have them connect it up to a computer in order to make a few software updates, which is said to manage the temperature in your engine much better so it will not overheat.

    However, what worries us this time is the fact that this 1.6-liter engine has been the subject of three other recalls since July, with each of them being very different but with the same outcome, the engine possibly catching on fire.


    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=37491
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    And that's why despite generally liking Ford products, I know a lemon could just be a purchase away.

    Yes, but that's an issue with any manufacturer. They all make the occasional lemon...
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    GM didn't invent the Volt. :) A battery powered car with an on-board generator for extended range is a concept well over 100 years old.

    http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/12/top-10-most-important-cars-youve-neve- r-heard-of.html/11

    I honestly did not know this before today, but I find it very interesting. It's basically the Volt concept.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Too bad you can't just plug your smartphone into the USB jack and flash it yourself and save a trip to the dealer.

    In semi-related news, after 4 years the feds have sold the last stake in AIG for a profit. Maybe there's hope for the GM monies. This happened around the same time that AIG reported that it was selling most of their aircraft leasing business to a Chinese company that they had a relationship with for a while.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Too bad you can't just plug your smartphone into the USB jack and flash it yourself and save a trip to the dealer.

    That sounds good in theory, but after going through a botched Android upgrade to 4.1 Jellybean on my Samsung Galaxy S3 I don't know if I want to attempt it on a car (my luck would be a tow truck having to come get the car). My phone was unusable for hours until I was finally able to get the upgrade process to complete without failing.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    IIRC, the government had already netted a profit before the liquidation of this last batch of stock in AIG.

    With GM's stock price currently running at about 50% of break-even price, it's gonna be a tough job to get the price to where it needs to be, but its not impossible.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    With GM's stock price currently running at about 50% of break-even price, it's gonna be a tough job to get the price to where it needs to be, but its not impossible.

    At the rate GM is going, I'd say it's impossible. :mad:
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I guess I'm an optimistic person at heart...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The question now I guess is how long are the feds willing to wait for GM's price to move (hopefully in the right direction).

    No more that 4 years is my wager. :shades:
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Perhaps the feds should be buying more shares at the lower price in order to dollar cost average...
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Perhaps the feds should be buying more shares at the lower price in order to dollar cost average...

    Yes, just think of what a bargain that price is right now. If the feds think it's going to double (back to break even), then perhaps all GM fans should buy in and make a killing...
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Since I believe the stock is headed towards $0.00, dollar cost averaging GM would be unwise
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Since I believe the stock is headed towards $0.00, dollar cost averaging GM would be unwise

    I think uplander and lemko should show their patriotism and kick in $100K each. The might make a lot of money. :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I bought a little GM stock, both before and after the bailout. Before the bailout, I lucked out and sold it off before it collapsed, and I think I actually made a few bucks. After the bailout though, I bought a little bit, but sold off once it fell about 10%, put it into amazon.com, and it's up about 40%.

    GM stock has come back a little bit though. I think it bottomed out under $20 per share, and now it's around $25. So if you were lucky enough to buy at the bottom, you made out fairly well.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    I think it bottomed out under $20 per share, and now it's around $25. So if you were lucky enough to buy at the bottom, you made out fairly well.

    Not compared to your Amazon stock. I'll take 40% over 25% every time!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited December 2012
    Not compared to your Amazon stock. I'll take 40% over 25% every time!

    Well yeah, but as they say, hindsight is 20/20. Heck, if I could predict the future, then back in 2005 I would've maxed out my HELOC, put every penny of it on Apple, and now I'd be sitting on roughly $2M, plus getting around $40,000 annually in dividends. :sick:

    For awhile, I also had some Daimler-Chrysler stock, and some Toyota stock. I got out of Toyota at a slight profit, around the time the sudden acceleration scares hit. Forget when I bailed on DCX, but it was at a slight profit, IIRC.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Well yeah, but as they say, hindsight is 20/20. Heck, if I could predict the future, then back in 2005 I would've maxed out my HELOC, put every penny of it on Apple, and now I'd be sitting on roughly $2M, plus getting around $40,000 annually in dividends.

    I actually bought a moderate amount of Apple in 2003, and sold a bunch of it when the stock hit $200 ("no way it will go much higher than that..."). But I kept some, and just sold half of what's left last month at $650! I still have a bit that I'm hanging onto. I've made some money, but not nearly what I could have.

    If the economy picks up and roars, GM could do well and then those who bought at the bottom would be laughing all the way to the bank. You just never know.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    One of the biggest luck-out's I've had has been Cedar Fair (FUN) the company that owns Cedar Point, Kings Island, etc. I bought some of it as low as $7.50 or so per share, and it's now trading around $33-34 per share. And on top of that, in 2013 it's going to pay a dividend of $2.50 per share. Even better, it's classified as a Master Limited Partnership or something like that, so what I call "dividend" is really what they call "return of investment" or something like that, so it's not subject to federal taxes! Not sure about state/local, though.

    Another coulda/shoulda/woulda moment, but if I had sunk everything into it at that point, I'd probably be retired now.

    As for GM, I don't think their rough patch is over yet. But, they've been improving. I'm looking forward to the 2014 Impala. And even though I won't be in the market for another pickup anytime soon, I'm curious to see what's up with this 2014 Silverado.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2012
    Right around the time Microsoft bailed out Apple, a Mac maven friend of mine insisted I should buy some. The price at the time was $12.50 iirc (the net says it got around ~$14 but I thought it was even cheaper). He didn't insist hard enough. :shades:

    One pundit over on Seeking Alpha today says to buy Ford and GM because they sell 75% of the pickups in the US and housing is recovering, which will drive sales longer term. The excess Silverado inventory is of small concern long term, especially since the redesigned truck is due shortly.

    There is a stock forum over in the Off Topic Chatter boards. But hang on to your wallet. :)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    You know guys, no one bats 1000, not even Peter Lynch. I'd say if Uncle makes out on the financial bailouts, but loses on GM, it still got a decent return overall from those unpopular bailouts. You've got to go by the overall portfolio performance, not just one holding.

    Andres - I really don't think GM is going to Zero. If it drops into the teens after a fiscal cliff fiasco, I might actually pick up a little. Gas is getting more plentiful and the economy is starting to turn around, which likely means better truck and SUV sales down the road and that is where D3 seems to excel.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,865
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2012
    And Hondas for rollback. And almost as many Toyotas for Lexus trunk releases. (NY Times).

    But it ain't GM news, and with all the recalls out there, it's barely news at all. Unless you happen to be an owner.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,865
    Well, with all the great things about other makes constantly compared with GM product here, I think it's logical to post other makes' 'bad stuff' compared with GM's, too.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I tend to agree. With all the recalls lately, perhaps we should start reporting the makes and models that haven't had any recalls for the last 5-10 years or so...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,865
    GM has been pretty quiet on this front lately.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I agree, but it seems everyone gets a turn at the "wheel" sooner or later.

    Ford has definitely been the domestic leader lately...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,865
    Seems like a lot of potential fire recalls by everybody lately.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    None of my cars have ever caught on fire, not even the Neon.

    The Neon did come the closest though, as when the head gasket failed it started to let coolant leak out and every time I slowed below 20 MPH the engine would start to overheat (no wind to cool).

    But even closer to fire then that, was when the AC compressor seized up on the belt and smoke started to come out from under the hood at which point I parked it to see what was going on before flames could start (although an extremely loud screeching sound was not avoided).

    When my A3's AC seized, no smoke, no loud annoying sounds, and under warranty unlike Dodge with the short 3 year warranty.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I agree.

    In the Ford Escape fire issue in particular, the recommended "fix" is a ECM style reprogramming event.

    I have to wonder if this was a result of a design error, or perhaps a software programming omission, or what many might call a software "bug".

    What I take away from this particular event is that servicing newer model automobiles is going to radically change from the basic "parts swapping and replacement" as it has been in the past.

    I have seen this exact issue surface in BMW's over the last several years.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I wonder if some of Ford's recent problems are spelled "Microsoft". I've learned years back never to buy their stuff until at least update Vers 2 is out!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    IL has the initial media release from GM regarding the new trucks. I gotta say, form the initial photos and info I'm not particularly impressed. The interior/exterior styling seems a bit to conservative to me. From the pictures, the interior looks a bit drab to me.

    Will have to wait to see in person and see what the power specs are. No numbers yet, but they will offered revised 4.3, 5.3, and 6.2L engines. But what I've seen so far, I expected more considering how long it's taken to develop these trucks.

    Maybe I'll be more impressed when I see one in person.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited December 2012
    I just found this link: http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2012/12/gm-unveils-long-awaited-2014-silverado- - -and-sierra-pickups.html/

    It estimates that the new 4.3, 5.3, and 6.2 engines should have ~310, 350, and 400+ hp, respectively.

    If true, it's impressive that they were able to bump up the 4.3 that much. I think the outgoing version only has 190 hp. It also says they're finally dumping the old 4-speed automatic and going with 6-speed all the way.

    And I agree, that the styling is nothing extraordinary, but I guess there are still a lot of people who find it appealing...maybe they want that familiarity? IMO, the front-end of the Silverado they show in that pic, with the stacked headlight looks and bisected grille, makes me think of my '85.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think they adopted that big, boxy front end from Ford and threw on a Chevy grill and emblem.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    I think the current 4.3 has 200 HP, like to know what they did to bump it to 300 or more, DI is a good bet, and maybe better intake and exhaust?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,865
    I'm reminded of the wheel opening area of the GMC Terrain, which I think is good looking.

    If I were buying a truck soon, I think I'd just as soon save the $$ and buy a '12.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I think the current 4.3 has 200 HP, like to know what they did to bump it to 300 or more, DI is a good bet, and maybe better intake and exhaust?

    If that's indeed true. Then they used better breathing so the engine could produce more torque at higher rpm since HP=torque x rpm/5250.

    So if the new 4.3 could be producing say 250 ft-lbs at 6000 rpm, it would be producing around 300hp. The current 4.3 produces something like 260 ft-lbs at 2,500rpm and the torque drops off thus it isn't capable of producing much HP. I'd guess variable valve timing would allow the new 4.3's torque curve to be flatter across a much wider rpm range. My question is how will a big 90 degree push-rod v6 sound when spinning over 5k rpm? Hopefully they were able to quell the harshness the 4.3 is known for.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    TQ peak = 260 at 2,500 according to gmpowertrain
    http://gmpowertrain.com/VehicleEngines/PowertrainProducts.aspx
    2022 X3 M40i
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Looking at the GMInsider website, the forum sounds like a bunch of Cub fans. Overall they don't seem impressed. I know I'm not. I don't see any reason to buy this over a Dodge or Ford. Maybe the FE will be exceptional, but my guess is the FE will be due to tall gearing which is fine if you're just going to haul groceries.

    I'm curious to see what the FE of the 6.2 model will be. It looks like that will be the only way to get the power to match or exceed Ford's EB and the Ram Hemi.

    The 5.3 will no doubt be the volume engine and will likely be good enough for most buyers.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2012
    Here's my prediction:

    Chevrolet and GMC leaning folks will still buy the GM brand product.

    Ford leaning folks will buy the Ford product.

    RAM leaning folks will buy the RAM product.

    A minimal amount of cross-brand shopping will occur, and a relative few will move between brands.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Too True!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I blink and miss 200 posts, yikes.

    Let's see...

    Consumer Reports finally takes on Ford for inflated mileage claims. Check.

    More recalls. Check.

    New Pickups. Check.

    Still bickering over the little stuff. Check. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited December 2012
    A minimal amount of cross-brand shopping will occur

    But the old one was losing share to the other 2. They needed to stop it.

    Glad to hear about the powertrain upgrades.

    Edit: all 3 motors get Direct Injection!
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