By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Wake me up when Infiniti rolls out those 8 liter engines :shades:
Eh, I'm still waiting for the Dodges with the 880 CID engines! :P
Other than that it looked great. Better in person than in photos.
Unless we're talking Pesos, 40K is enough to worry about the quality of the paint as well as rattles and trim pieces and so on. Sure, Cadillac is good, but then you go down to Buick or Chevrolet and the quality control seems to be asleep. It looks good and all at first glance, but then you take a look at what Mazda and Honda are putting out (let alone Infiniti and Audi and other higher-end makes).
It's a shame, too, since the cars are mechanically great. But mechanical quality alone only really sells commercial trucks and buses. They have to do better as the first impression is rather poor compared to the competition.
I couldn't describe either car to you.
They should riff on astronomical names, like Deneb or Skat. But they'd wind up with HD 197345 and HD 216627. :P
For names, I would say "Skat" is a bad choice :P
Frankly, I'm having trouble believing 'creaks and rattles' and am wondering about preconceived notions, but then, you drove it and I didn't.
A friend of mine with an '05 Tacoma he bought new, and he also drives his late parents' '95 Lexus SC400, recently raved about his '13 Malibu rental car and his Cruze rental, both taken on several-hundred-mile trips. He complained about the noise and shifting of a new Altima rental he had. I'll give you, a seven-year old Tacoma and 17-year old anything aren't the best things to be comparing a new car to.
Really, you ought to pay more attention to who is making what comments.
Quality control is way off. Stuff that should have been caught at the factory simply got past. On pretty much every car I looked at. Sometimes it was minor things like window gaskets improperly installed. Other times it was broken pieces or defects like I mentioned with the paint. It's kind of like being a beta-tester in a way. Buy the car and get the bugs worked out during the warranty period. For $15 or $20K you could probably let it slip. But 30K is a bit absurd. The last time I looked at an Acura TSX, it was almost perfect and defect-free.
If you call that an 'attack', well...what else can be said.
Despite the diversion, I stand by my comments.
General Motors Company (GM - Analyst Report) idled the Fairfax, Kansas plant on December 3 in order to control oversupply of Chevrolet Malibu midsize sedan manufactured at the plant. On December 1, the automaker had a 164-day supply of Malibu, which was well over the benchmark level.
The plant, which also produces Buick LaCrosse, will not be reopened until January 7, 2013. It employs 3,500 hourly workers and 315 salaried employees.
GM remains the top automaker in the U.S. by sales volume. Last month, the automaker sold 186,505 vehicles, a 3% growth over the prior year. Sales of Malibu fell 0.4% to 10,227 units in the month.
The company has unveiled a redesigned 2013 version of the vehicle in August. Despite that, the popularity of the vehicle has reduced. It has become the sixth-best selling vehicle of the company, down from the second-best selling vehicle.
Better get off their respective you-know-what:
In November, the top-selling midsize cars include Toyota Motor Corp.’s (TM - Analyst Report) Camry, Honda Motor Co.’s (HMC - Analyst Report) Accord, and Nissan Motor Co.’s (NSANY - Analyst Report) Altima.
Regards,
OW
Just yesterday, I got an email questionnaire from a company hired by GM to ask what I thought about the Malibu after a test drive (I gave my opinions even though my dealer did not make me do a test drive to get the free designer sunglasses offered then). I was honest and specific about what I liked and didn't like about the car.
I'm a simple guy, but to me, offering people sunglasses or fashion items to get them to test-drive a car, is 'meh'.
I'm trying to resist the urge to ask 'How many Captivas did your nearby dealer have in inventory?', but...I couldn't.
Again, I hate the words 'perception is reality', but we know how that goes. Again, my friend who drives a Tacoma and an old Lexus was far-more impressed with the 2013 Malibu rental he drove than the new Altima rental he had, which he thought was noisy and shifted weirdly. How to get info from "Joe Ordinary" out there, as opposed to the score or so of automotive writers (perhaps a little elitism among their ranks?) is the zillion-dollar question.
GM said it would pay $27.50 per share in the buyback deal, reflecting a 7.9% premium over Wednesday’s closing price of $25.59. The company will record a $400 million charge on its balance sheet in the fourth quarter.
At that share price, the government will take a loss. The government, which said it would sell the rest of its 300 million shares in an “orderly fashion” in the market, needed to sell its 500 million remaining shares at a price of about $53 to break even."
U.S. Treasury to sell all remaining GM stock; automaker buying back 200 million shares (Detroit Free Press)
LOL, why hold back now;)
BTW, I likely wouldn't be able to see a Captiva among the sea of Silverados and Malibus;)
I doubt there is anything wrong with the Malibu. I imagine it's a competent car, but it really doesn't stand out IMO.
I knew who you were responding to...
That was my impression as well, based upon a weeklong rental I had 3-4 months back. Absolutely nothing wrong with the car, IMO, just no "flash".
I see many makes do this type of thing, and I often wonder how many cars sales are actually instigated by the offering of such "incentives". Yet, these sales gimmicks do seem to draw a crowd.
Whether or not the crowd actually buys is another question. Maybe a slim chance of a sale is viewed more positively than an even slimmer chance of a sale.
Personally, I would never base the build quality of a car (squeaks, rattles, etc.) on a rental experience, but I would use that experience to examine the layout and construction materials used in the car. Over my lifetime, I've rented a number of cars that have been "ridden hard and put up wet", and I've known folks to really abuse a rental in a way they never would do to their own car.
Enjoy your sunglasses....
It really wasn't about the quality so much as the fit and finish and quality control on the production line. It isn't hard to toss a defective trim piece and grab another one from the pile. If you are paying attention, that is. It's not rocket science to improve visual quality control (as opposed to assembly quality control) so less aesthetic mistakes get out to the public.
It's a tough market and the public seems to care as much, if not more about the fit and finish of a vehicle than the mechanicals, so you have to get that sorted. Combine it with the fact that GM is pricing its cars a bit higher than the competition (be it their fault or not, given their huge overhead), and they can't afford to make mistakes.
Honestly though, I wish they would've replaced the 4.3L with the 4.2L I6 long ago; that was a decent engine Like you, I wonder about NVH with a 90-deg V6, especially one that needs to hit a high rpm for peak power / torque. For truck apps, preference is low-rpm torque.
Agree as well on interior / exterior. Am awaiting final judgement on extend test / drives of it before final decision. Maybe it'll grow on me, but if it does, hopefully not like a rash. :P
Detroit News
I asked why did they go bankrupt. Point I was trying to make was the saying "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
Because as circle points out.....doesnt seem like they learned anything.
I just hope our pres still doesnt think they are still too big to fail, because they DID fail.
You had the '12 model. The new model is smaller but nicer-trimmed inside IMHO. The thing to think about, is what car of similar price is nicer? I couldn't come up with any, but then I own an '11 model.
GM will move the next generation of the muscle car from Ontario to the Lansing plant, which builds the Cadillac CTS and ATS. The shift is likely to occur within a few years.
The union said the loss of the Camaro will cut between a quarter and a third of production at Oshawa and will happen in late 2015 or early 2016. CAW President Ken Lewenza, in a statement, called GM's decision "callous and poorly thought-out".
"General Motors has once again shown a complete and utter disregard for its workers and also Canadians in general, whose tax dollars kept the company out of bankruptcy," Lewenza said in a statement.
GM bailout funding...
From...http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2010/04/21/wdr-detroit-gm-gov- ernment-loans-100421.html
GM got a total of $52 billion from the U.S. government and $9.5 billion from the Canadian and Ontario governments as it went through bankruptcy protection last year.
I don't really have any idea about pricing, but the important thing isn't so much its pricing as much as it is the market the Malibu is competing in...
Is that the new GM strategy... Chase the bottom segment of the market by providing a less-desirable product at a lower price?
I honestly don't know, but if it is, I suspect it's a losing strategy...
In case no one has realized yet, those weren't loans. That was the money GM felt it had justly earned but consumers had conspired to keep from them for no good reason.
At that share price, the government will take a loss. The government, which said it would sell the rest of its 300 million shares in an “orderly fashion” in the market, needed to sell its 500 million remaining shares at a price of about $53 to break even."
As the saying goes, "It ain't over till its over", but if the remaining 300 million shares don't get close to making up that deficit, GM really needs to hope it isn't going to have to return to "that" well for additional funding later on.
My observation is that any politician providing additional funding to any concern after accepting such a loss would be committing political suicide, especially since the argument that the capital markets being locked up is no longer valid.
That can also be interpreted as 'the best-equipped and/or biggest car with the longest powertrain warranty in its price class'.
Well, it certainly possible to be interpreted that way... And, I'm sure some do exactly that.
Back in the 1970's, when grocery store chains really started getting into "store branded" products, they attempted to gain impetus in the market by selling based on price, as a cheaper alternative to branded products. That approach really got them nowhere. What they then proceeded to do was to evolve their marketing approach, selling "value" over "less expensive". They found it worked much better.
Whether its canned beans, fast food or cars, the majority of buyers think value is more important than price. McDonald's doesn't have a "cheap price" menu, but they do have a "value" menu.
As an example, I have an inexpensive 1/2" air wrench that I bought for around $35 several years ago from Northern Tool. It's a good value for me, because I use it less than 5 times a year, on average. At the current rate of usage, it will last me the rest of my life. On the other hand, if I ran a garage, it wouldn't be much of a value, because it wouldn't hold up long under daily usage. A professional quality air wrench would be of a far greater value in that instance.
If one were to give a list of adjectives to existing car owners that included the terms "value" and "less expensive", I'd be willing to bet Corolla owners would rank "value" towards the top. After all, a Corolla is decent transportation, reliable and long lasting, but hardly trend setting design and certainly not technologically advanced. But, to most owners, they aren't looking to impress their friends... They're looking for value... Biggest Bang for the buck.
I'd also think value would be ranked towards the top by Cruze owners, because its a smart-looking design at a reasonable price, and from the ones I've seen, well assembled, and quite "roomy" for its class.
On the other hand, I suspect a large share of Malibu owners would rank "less expensive" at a higher level than value.
Even you do that, and you have done it repeatedly.
It's not so much a failure (if that's even the correct term to use) of the car or its design as it is a failure of marketing the Malibu.
From a car perspective, cheap pricing got the Korean makes in the door, but "value" is what got them the market share they have now.
If GM wants the Malibu to be the mid-sized Corolla, then they have succeeded. Problem with that, on average, is... The more expensive the product, the more one starts searching for value and less for inexpensive price.
Saving 5 cents on a can of beans may give me a warm feeling of spending my money wisely, but that same can of beans will be gone in a week. The car I spend $25+ K on is gonna be around for a while, and I (and judging from how Malibu sales are doing against the competition, a whole lot of others) want "value" for my money.
One last point related to what you stated above, regarding the warranty. Once again, I'd be willing to bet that warranty really doesn't factor in towards the top of most car purchases today, especially in the $25+ K price range and up. It's probably a safe bet to say most buyers have a reasonable expectation that new car purchases, regardless of make or model, will get satisfactory results from the cars performance, drive-train-wise.
Unless a buyer (in this class or above) has been burned in the past by a lemon, I'd say most would rank warranty concerns below style, price, comfort, utility and safety.
Frankly, just thinking about it reminds me of buying a TV from Best Buy, and the sales clerk trying to sell me an extended warranty that will stretch my warranty out from 1 year to 3 years. My thoughts are that anyone should expect a modern TV to go several years without failure. If i really think that particular TV is going to have a short, trouble free life, I'm going to purchase a different make and model. Same goes for automobiles.
I really like that analysis.
Personally, if I had an investment guy that managed a portfolio for me, giving me an adequate (or better than expected) return on my total investment, I really wouldn't worry much about him picking the occasional "dog". In fact, I'd think he was probably too conservative if he didn't.
Now, I would expect him NOT to continue investing my $$$ into the loser investment, naturally, and I'd be very upset if he did so, but its the nature of the beast to have the occasional horse come in last once in a while...
I think you had us all fooled. Good one!
That can also be interpreted as 'the best-equipped and/or biggest car with the longest powertrain warranty in its price class'.
It can also be interpreted as..."the strategy that has been faithfully followed for decades..."
It's been a while, and my memory could be failing me...
Is that really the case, though?
A Kia Optima has a 10 year 100K power train warranty, and its classified as a mid size car... 5 passenger vehicle.
Yep, and I still don't personally get as excited about all of it as some. But, my point is that if GM management wants to move on from the bailout, having uncle quickly cash out at a big loss isn't really going to change public perception any more than the gov holding an equity stake. I think it's wishful thinking on their part. I think an approach something like I suggested is a better way to accomplish it and improve your reputation while not short term killing your finances.
Funny you'd mention that...my housemates and I just went in 3 ways on a 55" 3D TV from Costco that has a picture so crisp you can spot the orange peel on on all the Lexuses in those December to Remember ads. :P Okay, just kidding, it's not THAT hi-res (although we were watching some tv show or movie on it and there was a midnight blue BMW 7-series, and I swear I DID see orange peel!)
Anyway, we sprung for the extended warranty. We got it at Costco, and they warranty the tv for two years, but for $99, I think it was, you could bump it out to five. Whole bill came out to something like $1266 with tax, I think.
I'm a bit leery of these newer flat-screen tvs, and have already lost one prematurely. However, it wasn't the TV's fault. The cat projectile-vomited off the staircase and coated the back of the tv, and some of it got in and shorted it out. Miraculously, that was covered by the extended warranty!
If I think the extended warranty is reasonably priced with respect to the cost of the item, I'll spring for it. And in this case, I thought it was.
Now cars can be a different story. I spent an extra $1205 for an extended warranty on my 2000 Intrepid that took its 3/36K bumper-to-bumper out to 5/100K. Well, I hit 100K miles on Christmas Eve, 2004, about a month and a half after the warranty expired, and never had to use it once. When I bought my Ram a couple months ago, and the finance lady tried to push the extended warranty on me, I just told her that if it starts pissing me off after the 3/36K goes, I'm just going to dump it, and probably NOT buy another Dodge. When I told her about my Intrepid that never needed use of the extended warranty, she countered with how cars are a lot different these days. To which I replied that I sure hope they build today's cars better than a 2000 Intrepid! :P
In this case, if I thought the warranty was a good deal, and if I thought I would drive enough to use it, I would have sprung for it. But, I think even their most basic extended warranty was something like $1800, and covered it to 5 years/100K miles. Well, the bumper-to-bumper is 3/36, and powertrain is 5/60K. I'm guestimating this truck will go 6,000 miles per year, at best. Which means that when the powertrain is up in five years, it'll have a whopping 30K on it. It'll hit 60K in ten years. 100K will come up in about 16 years, 8 months...if I still have it by then.
As for the Malibu, I thought they finally got out of that "selling well because it's cheap" stigma with the 2008-2012 model. That redesign finally made the car seem competitive, and suddenly it was "a lot of car for the money" and not simply "cheap".
I don't think the 2013 has been out long enough to earn a rep, either way. Inventory is certainly piling up because the customers aren't biting, but I don't think they're jacking up the rebates just yet to clear them out. I'm sure it's coming, though.
I think the best example in the Malibu's class these days that's simply "less expensive" versus "a good value" would be the Dodge Avenger and Chrysler 200C. They're really not that competitive compared to other midsized cars, but with incentives they're priced so cheaply that it starts to make them tempting.
Personally, I'd probably buy a 200C or Avenger over a Malibu, simply because it fits me better. With the seat all the way back I'm comfortable, and can still fit in the back seat. However, with the Malibu, while I'm comfortable up front, with the seat all the way back, back seat legroom becomes almost non-existent. I haven't driven either, but the Malibu seems to win out with a more powerful, and more economical standard 4-cyl. I think the interior quality is a bit better on the Malibu, but the 200C I looked at the last time I had to go to the Mopar dealer wasn't bad inside. They've definitely improved in the transformation from Sebring to 200C. But, that 200C was priced so low that it was downright tempting. And it's not even a car I'm all that crazy about.
I know GM wants you to think it's a midsized car, but personally, I rank the Malibu with the likes of the Dodge Dart, Nissan Sentra, Chevy Cruze, etc. Regardless of what the published specs say, it feels close in size to those larger-end compacts than it does genuine midsized cars.
Is that really the case, though?
A Kia Optima has a 10 year 100K power train warranty, and its classified as a mid size car... 5 passenger vehicle.
The key here is in its price class.
Can an Optima be bought (actual purchase price, not sticker) for the price of a Malibu?
I know transaction prices too low is a no-no here, but as a consumer...it's a good thing for me.
But then, I'd have bought a new Studebaker in the mid-sixties, so what do I know.
Also, I've never once bought an extended warranty on a car. Haven't regretted it yet.
The 426 Hemi's last year was 1971, and I think the 440-6pack might have made it into 1973, possibly 1974. I'm not sure what the final year was that you could get a 440 in a midsized Mopar, but I know by 1978 it was police car-only. That year they had a 245 hp 4-bbl unit that would get a Dodge Monaco or Plymouth Fury from 0-60 in about 9.2 seconds and would top out around 132 mph. Not that impressive these days, but police cars only got worse after that, and it wouldn't be until the LT-1 Caprice of 1994 that a faster full-sized police car was built.
At least this is different from the many 'fire' recalls of late:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2012-hyundai-veloster-recalled-because-sunroof-m- ay-shatter.html
And if I knew you, I'd probably come over to visit in a 1957 Desoto or other Chrysler product...provided it hadn't rusted out by that point! :P
As for factory extended warranties, it's not too hard for a modern repair to hit close to four figures these days. I haven't bought a vehicle for a few years now, but it struck me that when I did Toyota had a pretty inexpensive price whereas D3 tended to quite a bit more. The Honda dealers just wanted to sell some off name warranty. Of course, that might have just been my local dealers and market.