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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
The main flaw of the current ES is the lack of headroom. Any word of whether Lexus has fixed that problem? I haven't seen inside dimension figures.
Gotta sit in it to see headroom. But the car has grown in height by about 3", if I remember right. That should translate to more headroom.
Thank you.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Remember earlier also ES300 went up from 19o hp to 210--- I think it will be a better value at 34-35K loaded with 230+ hp and a platinum/coach exclusivety
My personal advice is no need to rush--waiting will get a better bargain
The car reminds me of a Dodge Stratus as styled by Toyota. :-/ And the fact they didn't really improve the output of the engine means the car will not compare well against the Acura TL.
Now, if Toyota/Lexus had bumped up the engine displacement to 3.2 liters and likely got 235-240 bhp, -then- we're talking about a car worth having. :-)
What if you hold out hoping for more hp and then it doesn't happen? Then you've waited for nothing. Or maybe a discount will come around, but it's offset by a price increase.
And the Coach/Platinum editions, if they even have one, will only come out after several years once interest in the car declines as it gets further into its model cycle. By that time you might as well wait for the next generation.
I say if you like the car now buy it.
If you wait for the initial rush to pass and factories to start pumping the cars out at full tilt, then there will be more choice and better price.
You also get to see results of government and insurance crash testing before commiting to the purchase and are more likely to avoid the hassles of any recalls that may happen.
If you wait a whole year, you get the benefits of any fixes and improvements to problems that turn up the first year. You also get to read hundreds of posts about problems owners discover that are not apparent on a 10 minute test drive and may not be fixed until the next year, if ever.
Also someone mentioned before that the exterior looked like a Peugeot 607. I think so too. Check out the Peugeot:
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/010119/3/27tw.html
http://www.cars.ru/catalog/peugeot/607.html
I get a kick reading postings about the ES300 not having enough power than a TL or I30. If that's the case, QUIT YOUR WHINING and go buy an Acura or Infinity! You'll get a cheap and gaudy interior with less than stellar customer service with both. I had and got rid of the current I30 and it screamed "cheap" everytime I looked at the circular analog clock in the middle of the dashboard. I also couldn't tell it apart from a Maxima.
first off, thanks Edmunds for being one of the
first to present the roadtest of the new ES.
you guys are good!! can't find it in any
competitor's site accept familycar.com
I think the all new ES is a serious stylish
statement by Lexus inside and out. Sure it
may not be as revolutionary and groundbreaking
as a MB, BMW, Audi, Bentley, Jaguars but it
should compete well against other Japanese
brands. right? As far as it being bland, Lexus
cars have never been bland. perhaps only bland
to those who wouldn't buy it anyway, regardless.
and don't try to convince me that you're a lexus
owner who thinks it's bland. how would I know?
The corolla, camry, tercel, takoma and most
other nonluxury, basic transportation cars of other brands are "bland". but luxury is a different league. Lexus showed some guts in
this new ES design considering the fact that
most ES buyers tend to be conservative whereas
most other luxury makes, although may redesign
their cars every few years, are very conservative
in staying close to the previous designs. I give
lexus at least this much credit.
On the exterior, I would prefer a closer look to
the previous generation ES. because that one
really help personify the ES. Can't mistake it
when parked next to other cars. Its elegance and
a sense of luxury really stands out. does it look
like a Peugot? perhaps a little but you can also
say the Peugot looks like a Celica. you really
have to see the whole picture to apreciate it.
On the interior, now this is where lexus really
excel. The ES truly moved upscale despite a price
I suspect will remain competitive. It looks even
better than most luxury cars costing thousands $$
more. And it appears that lexus has raised the
luxury standard "again" on smoothness and refinement. but we shall see.
Overall, the competitions including MB, BMW 3
series automatic sedan, Automatic A6, TL, I30
don't have much to compete against the new ES.
think about it. consider everything. look at the
big picture.
so the popular way to make oneself feel better
and appear more in control is to try to downgrade
a serious contender and that's the ES.
3poinster,
most of these people who think it looks bland or
uqly wouldn't buy the ES regardless. The purpose
of the whining may be to discourage those who
are considering buying it. They're not the target
audience. it shouldn't have any problem addressing
the target buyers needs. especially after lexus
makes some improvements like a chrome grille
upfront.
but seriously, it's great to see so many posts
even from the competitors enthusiasts. everyone
should be able to share their opinions and I just
shared mine. that's democracy. everyone's presence here merely popularize the ES forum and
ultimately the ES.
Thanks again Edmunds.
Take care everybody!
I think the rear looks slightly bland, but the front is beyond "bland." It is actually a a negative aspect to the car.
A TL has bland styling that is kind of boring and too similar to an Accord, but it is not offensive or ugly like many view the looks of the the 2002 ES300's front end.
The interior looks nice in the photos and, of course, being the newest design, it should be the smoothest and quietest in the class when it comes out. The aging design of the current 2001 ES300 has been bypassed in smoothness and driving feel by less expensive cars like the TL for the last few years.
It would truly be shocking if the new 2002 ES300 would not be the smoothest and quietest since it will be the latest design and also the most expensive of the Japanese near-luxury cars when equipped normally.
It is kind of ridiculous that leather seats and moonroof are still not standard equipment in a car like this. They make these features optional so that the base MSRP looks more competive against competing cars even though they know that 99% of the cars will be ordered with leather seats and moonroof at the very least.
It looks good in Motor Trend though.
Regards,
I will reserve styling comments until I see the car in person. I was very disappointed initially, but have seen a few photos that show promise.
My wife and I own two Lexuses (a 2000 LX470 and a 1999 RX300) and one Mercedes (98 E320). I couldn't disagree with you more ved3. I think everyone wants the same attributes in this vehicle - style, luxury, sport, quality, and value. That's what I want. I don't want a car that looks like every other boring car on the road or, as it relates to the ES300, like a Toyota Camry. I haven't seen the 2002 Camry, so I don't know if the ES300 looks like it or not.
I assumed Lexus would design a car with stunning style. Since they haven't, in my opinion, I am less inclined to buy this car.
Has anyone on this board seen this car in person. And, if you have, would you mind providing comments?
We own a '00 TL w/ nav and '01 RX300 w/ nav. The TL nav system is mucheasier to use and has more info than the Lexus system. It's not even a close race.
I paid $500 over invoice for my Coach edition in March 2001. My dealer, Concord Lexus, told me invoice price was $30,600, not including destination. I called two other Lexus dealers to confirm invoice. Both said invoice was $30,600. So, I don't think they lied to me. I figure with the hold back, $600, I left $1,100 on the table. That's a little over 3%. I guess not to bad for a car in demand.
The day I picked mine up, three other customers were picking up their new ES also. When I bought mine, end of first quarter, salesman was very eager to sell a car. I think the dealership was more concerned about moving volume rather than profit margin. They probably had ordered a "ton" of coach editions and wanted to move them so they could take advantage of "hold back".
If the new design does not meet customer expectations, I suspect there may be a run on the existing ES inventory. Dealers may be less likely to deal. Don't know.
I am glad I bought mine when I did. The new design does not appeal to me.
Chip
I too do not like the new styling but then again I do not like a lot of the new styles. They seem to grow on you after a while though.
How do you like your new Lexus? Have you had any problems? What kind of gas mileage are you getting on it?
Couple other web sites you may want to check for invoice pricing. Autobytel.com and Carprice.com.
Good luck!
Chip
Nippon-Denso makes the Nav system.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/previews/02es300.htm
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=3971&n-156.178&sid=178
anyways, i got a question. i had a 5K maintenance service on my car. do i t need to follow the schedule maintenance at every 7.5K (i prefer at least an oil change at 5K)? i could just have an oil change at 10K and then major routine maintenance at 15K, right? anyone has any idea?
I to questioned the maintenance schedule. I change the oil on my cars every 3,000 miles, give or take a couple hundred. I called my Lexus service manager and asked about doing oil changes myself. He said that was fine, don't even need receipts. I'll keep mine anyway. He said the 15,000 marks were important to have done. (15,000, 30,000, 45,000 etc.)
Does anybody else have comments on this?
Thanks,
Chip
How do you like your RX? I have a friend who owns one. He loves his.
Chip
P.S. Host, I know we have digressed to sludge and maintenance on this board. Will try to stop. Did not intentionally take conversation this way. Just kind of went that direction. Thanks for your understanding.
Check out alot of other cars, the front wheel wells usually have bigger openings than the rear wheels due to the greater up and down travel the front suspension makes as opposed to the rear. Why does it do that? When braking a FWD car pushes all weight forward dropping the front suspension, and when accelerating, the weight lifts off of the front wheel. Second, it also looks like the front end wheel wells are much higher because front to back, cars typically gain height. By that I mean, the side glass has a higher ending point at the end of the rear side doors, and the mouldings and so on rise also as they go backwards across the car.
I'm just trying to figure out what it is about the style that does not appeal to me.
Chip
What were the Lexus designers thinking when they were designing the rear of the ES. I mean, were they tired or sleepy or something. It looks ripped right off the hind quarters of the first-gen Avalon. I mean, come on, the plebeian rear doesn't match with the haute front styling.
Furthermore, i always thought that that luxury version of a car was supposed to look better than the everyday midsize version of it. The '02 Camry looks WAY better and far more balanced (Remember the disclaimer if you disagree with me)than the ES.
It looks like Chrysler designed it!
I especially dislike the window treatment on the back doors, with the curved C pillars.
That's my $.02.
I'm sure a rebuilt tranny for a Lexus is expensive, somewhere in the $4K range.
2002 ES300,
I think people need to wait to see the actual car in person. I didn't find the ES300 to be good looking at first in pics either, but it's grown on me. And the magazines have all basically said the car is good looking and distinctive.
I think one of the reasons alot of people don't like it right now is because the 2002 ES300 is a big styling departure from the 1997-2001 model. Alot of you people were expecting evolutionary styling like what happened to the ES300 from 1996 to the 97 model year.
I welcome the new big headlights, it adds alot of character to the styling and those headlights create a family resemblance with the GS, LS, and SC430.
Chip
The 2002 Camry looks pretty good too, but from the pics, the rear overhang looks too long and the rear Maxima-Neon-ish tailights don't do it for me. But again, I'll wait to see that in person also before passing judgement.