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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
The Q45 is a nice car, but not at all like the ES. Expect faster depreciation and higher maintanence costs. But it is a great ride.
Can't believe a car at this price level has these deficiencies! Better pay more attention next time when my wife comes home with a car. In my judgement any Lexus is way overpriced. Check the current real market value on this site before you buy one. You'll find that it's less than the check you're going to write by several thousand. But your wife can say "mine is a Lexus"--I guess that's what important.
slapshot 3 - I agree with SDDLW.
robtw - I would've liked to see the 2 features you mentioned in my ES as well, although neither would've made a difference in my purchase decision. I also think there should be integrated controls on the steering wheel for the stereo system. As for the lights timing out, are you sure that's not configurable by the dealer? There appear to be a lot of dealer-configurable options as far as lighting is concerned. Talk to one of the actual service techs about that.
And yah, driving any luxury brand will give your wife some bragging rights.
As far as what people are paying vs. Edmunds true market value, I'm not sure what you mean. Edmunds lists the base true market value of the '02 ES as $300 under MSRP. There are people paying $2000+ less than MSRP. hk2la got $2850 off her '02 ES. That's thousands less, not more, than Edmund's true market value.
hk2la - How're you liking your new ES so far? Any questions / comments?
Radio controls on steering wheel: I actually think that is a bad idea. It's much more dangerous to be glancing down at the steering wheel than glancing at the dash.
Kreativ: okay, you are right on the money (literally!)
So far (only 250 miles) avg 24 mpg, quiet, comfy. Other car is 99 I30. No problems yet, but unless I am mistaken the first "service" at 1k miles is just an inspection. Is this correct?
Clark
I think the point of audio steering wheel controls is so you don't have to look down at all.
clarkram - yes, the 1K/30 day "service" is just an inspection. It includes a road test if you don't mind one of the service guys taking a joy ride in your new car.
By the way, for the second free scheduled maintenance, you'll have the choice of whether you want that to be at 5000 miles or 7500 miles. I looked in the schedule manual and they also replace your A/C filter at 7500, so it makes sense to request the 7500 mile service regardless of when you bring it in. Beats me why the 5000 mile service intervals call for changing the A/C filter at 15,000, while the 7500 mile interval calls for changing it at 7,500 AND 15,000. Personally, i would ask for them to give you the A/C filter, and change it yourself when your current A/C filter actually becomes dirty. It's easy to do, and instructions are in the manual.
That's pretty good mileage you're getting, compared to me at least.
Gas Mileage 15MPG
Miles Driven 400
% Highway Driving 5%
Average speed 19MPH
Car Date of Manufacture: 10/01
I've only been using this car to take me to the golf courses and local places. But 15MPG seems pretty pathetic, even given the low average speed and local-only driving.
~alpha
Any idea what average speed the EPA city rating is based on?
clark
kreativ: I woudn't be worried about such early gas mileage numbers. Drive that new car around and enjoy it!
radio controls on steering wheel--really now, you can't use it without looking down.
hk2la: Haha, yah, those LA freeways. The EPA should come up with a separate mileage estimate in California for bumper-to-bumper freeway traffic.
I will mention it again when it goes back to the dealer that sold us the car for its next service. Other than that we LOVE this car...IT ROCKS!
And you think most new cars have lights that go out after a certain period of time? Please say which cars, because I don't know of any.
Also, how can you say any Lexus is way overpriced? Check most any Lexus vs. the competition (mostly Mercedes and BMW) and Lexus is usually much cheaper. Consider some examples:
LS 430 vs. S430 or 745i
GS 430 vs. E430 or 540i
GS 300 vs. E320 or 530i
ES 300 vs. C320
IS 300 vs. 330i
Further, no car is going to have every feature everybody wants. But it could be much worse. Wasn't it the all-new Mercedes C-Class that did not even have a CD changer as an option, let alone standard?
I hope this response did not come across the wrong way. Be happy with your purchase and enjoy a well-built, value-packed car.
My 96 Chrysler minivan. Didn't shut doors tight? Forgot to shut off headlights? left your interior lights on? No problem. After 15 minutes they all will be off.
do you reset every time or do you let it average out three-four times
please advise
lenscap - How about arranging to purchase a car w/AVS in southern California, taking a short vacation there, and either drive the car back or arrange to have a shipping company flatbed your car back to Chicago. With the difference in pricing between southern California and Chicago, you won't be losing out on much. And you'd have the car much faster. Plus, if you enjoy golf or any other outdoor sport, a trip to SoCal wouldn't be bad.
Audio steering wheel controls and interior light time-out: two useful features that I wouldn't mind having in my '02 ES.
No need to get too defensive about what our cars don't have.
If so please post the lease price you got.
I have a GS300 on lease that will be coming do in the next year. I was looking at the ES300, I35, JAG x-type
I was told yesterday when I brought my GS in for a oil change that the ES 300 came down in price on a lease. From $530 a month ago to $480 for 39 months 12k miles.
The I35 is a nice car I was offered a price of $408 before haggle.
The JAG X-type is $350 with free service
NOW all these cars are around $33,000. I assume that the price difference is because the ES300 is new and Lexus has SNOB appeal.
As I told my dealer if the ES300 price comes down to normal range to $420's then I would concider it. I dont want to leave LEXUS since I love there service, but I will not pay $60-100 more a month.
clark
My email is: gdbais@proaxis.com
Thanks.
~alpha
Anyone else experiencing this? Any ideas why this kind of problem is apparent in newer cars, and/or Lexus (none of my previous MBs, Toyotas, Hondas, Pontiacs, or MG ever had mold, at least not in the ventilation system).
Anyway, I love my 2002 ES300.
Tax/license: $2,600 would be low for tax and license around here.
Musty smell: have you been keeping the vent in recirculation mode? That would definitely cause a bad smell, and indoor air pollution--in a car!
BOL: That really sucks. Did they ever diagnose the problem? and have you talked to Lexus? I'm pretty sure there are some lemon law writeups on this site. I would definitely research legal rights and pursue the issue with Lexus, as far up the ladder as necessary.
The new Lexus dealer in town also owns the Toyota dealership.I can see an oil change costing $59 compared to $27 at Toyota as Lexus loans you a car and washes yours but when you get the Lexus dealer quoting $296 compared to Toyota $102 FOR the same service maintenanceone has to wonder.I phoned another Lexus dealer about 90 miles away and their cost for the same service was $160.Now when you compare Lexus service requirements they want you to carry out this service at 12 months or 16000 km wheareas Toyota only requires you to carry out this service at 24 months or 32000 km.Is one to deduce from this that the Toyota is a better car than the Lexus? I phoned Lexus Canada who seemed surprised at this.
I guess I will be getting my Lexus serviced at a Toyota dealership which is in the next town
I would like to hear from others who are getting their Lexus serviced at Toyota dealerships
Best wishes
Strapper1
I suspect 45-50 is the range where the transmission shifts from 4th to 5th. So it's hunting gears. You may want to get them to check the computer for the transmission, if it's reading anything wrong.
That is not too different for what the dealer did. They went in through the vent ducting and tubing and used a foamy disinfectent. I'll try that next time.
I am in San Diego, and always have the vent set for fresh air. I only use the heat or AC every once in a while. I was quite surprised I would have this problem in San Diego. Hence, I was curious how widespread it was.
A while back at another routine OLF interval, they saw the coolent overflow reservoir was cracked. It took them 5 days (over a weekend) to get the part. I had their loaner all five days and still only paid for the routine service.
Somebody's got to pay for that!
If the pamering and convenience is not worth the extra $$, take your car to the Toyota dealer for service, or find a reputable independent who is certified for warantee work. Before I bought my Lexus, I was driving a 300E MB and used an indepenent. On average, his bills were slightly lower for service interval stuff, but as much as 50% less than the dealer for major work.
Somebody's got to pay for that!
Lexus pays for that, NOT the dealer.
Later...AH
I would have expected that to be dealer overhead, and one of the main reasons the independents can keep their prices down. .... as in the case of my MB mechanic who was factory certified and authorized to perform warantee work, but kept his overhead and prices low.
You'll notice that some Lexus dealers are very willing to do warranty work (replace items) on trivial things. Customers think the dealer is great, but really, they're just collecting on warranty payments. If they had to cover the warranty themselves, they'd do anything to get out of it.
1,000 miles: Free, all they do is look at your car, and maybe take a joy ride (road test) in it.
Minor service (e.g. 5000/10000, 7500, etc.)
Lexus typically charges - $90 to $1xx
What you should really be paying - $30-40
Oil change - Lexus dealers typically charge $40-60 for this simplest of procedures (as far as a car mechanic is concerned). You can get the same parts and better service by doing this on your own for as low as $22. (Buy Camry/ES filter at Toyota dealer, oil from discount warehouse, LABOR ONLY charge at local auto shop where you get to watch the mechanic)
Rotate tires - Lexus dealers again charge $40-60 for another simple procedure. At that price, you might as well buy new tires and get lifetime tire rotation/balancing with it. You'll SAVE money in the long run and have an extra set of tires for later use.
You can get tire rotation for much cheaper at tire shops. I wouldn't pay any more than $15 for this service. Ask that only a TORQUE WRENCH be used to tighten your tires to 76lb-ft. Most places, including Lexus dealers, just use an impact socket wrench with little regards to the torque specification. Some just use a torque limiter (torque stick).
Intermediate service (e.g. 15000):
Same as minor service plus:
Replace A/C filter - simple to do through glove box, instructions in the owner's manual. If you can change a light bulb, you can do this. Buy A/C filter from parts and do it yourself. You DON'T need to change it at the specified service interval. Instead, you should change it when it's NECESSARY, meaning checking the filter periodically. So you may be changing the filter earlier/later than recommended.
Retorque drive shaft flange bolts: I doubt Lexus dealers even bother, or all they do is rattle it around with an impact socket wrench instead of retorquing to specified torque. If you want it done right, ask your mechanic what the torque specification is (to make sure they know) and request that they be retorqued with a TORQUE WRENCH. This service shouldn't even cost anything if you're bringing in the car to any auto shop for an oil change or what not.
Checks and inspections: So they look around and make sure everything's okay. Do they actually check? Many don't. Unless you're with the mechanic and he tells you everything he's checking for, you'll never know.
Lexus dealers typically charge $200-$xxx for this service. Starting to wonder what exactly you're paying all the extra money for? Just the nice lounge and a nice loaner car, which can be quite valuable to some. Sure, the Lexus dealer will say "we do a lot of extra stuff" (i.e. We tack on a bunch of unnecessary extras so we can charge you more)
This could go on and on. What's important is to find a GOOD MECHANIC, whether at a local shop or at the Lexus dealer. It's not the place that matters, it's the mechanic you get.
Also, with my Acura TL, I get a loaner car along with a complimentary wash (which I usually decline) and a vacuum, during even a minor oil change. I get charged about $25. If I wait for the oil change, I get free local telephones, connection for my laptop etc., along with free coffee and bagels. Generally they give some free stuff like a T-shirt or something at the time of payment.
All major services like the 15,000 mile change etc., they charge about $180. During which, in addition to a bunch of inspections, and the oil change, they also change the transmission fluid (it better be done by the dealer) and a tire rotation, in addition to topping off any other fluids. At the time of payment, they also attach a cassette that contains the comments from the technician who inspected the various components. I like that for a finishing touch, since then I am assured that they had done the various inspections. However, from what I understand, not all Acura dealers are nearly as good !!
Later...AH