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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
BTW, some other ES owners have the same issue...
http://www.epinions.com/auto_Make-2002_Lexus_ES_300/display_~revi- ews
Maybe the car buyers are getting pickier. Or, people's driving skills are so bad that the fancy computerized transmissions don't even know how to adapt (just kidding)
Averaged about 27mpg while at freeway speed during a recent 500mi trip. However, I have been using premium gas.
Interested to know if the notice about software enhancement came from Lexus headquarters or from your dealer???
Dear Lexus Customer:
Lexus is dedicated to the "Passionate Pursuit of Perfection."
As part of our constant efforts to provide you with the best in customer satisfaction and vehicle quality, Lexus would like to inform you of a product enhancement that is currently available for your ES 300 vehicle.
This enhancement involves reprogramming the software for the engine control module (ECM) of the transmission, which changes the shifting smoothness of the transmission. Vehicle performance remains substantially the same.
This product update is available through Lexus dealerships at no cost to you while your Lexus Powertrain Warranty is in effect. If you would like to have this update installed in your vehicle or if you want further information, please contact your local Lexus dealership and advise them that you are interested in having the modification completed per Technical Service Information Bulletin No. TC004-03. Please note that due to the nature of software reprogramming, once your software has been updated, it will not be possible to return the software to the previous version.
If you want additional information after consulting your local Lexus dealership, please contact the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Pacific Time.
We have sent this notice in the interest of your continued satisfaction with our products and hope to see you at a Lexus dealership for your next sales or service visit.
Sincerely,
Lexus Division
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
1. MARK LEVINSON AUDIO. Is it worth the extra $900 over the standard sound system?
2. ADAPTIVE VARIABLE SUSPENSION. A couple of people here like it, but reviews generally say forget it, too soft on comfort setting, too firm in sport setting. In between just like regular suspension, so why bother.
3. WOOD STEERING WHEEL. Cosmetic item. Is the wood cold in the winter, clammy, sticky?
4. H.I.D. HEADLIGHTS. Are they brighter? I need all the light I can get at night.
5. POWER REAR SUNSHADE. Is it useful?
Anti-skid system I'll definitely get. Anything else recommended?
Thanks.
1. ML? I would spend the $ on the navigation system instead. It's a personal preference.
2. vairable suspension? depends on how long you want to keep the car. this will be VERY expensive to fix once the car is out of warranty.
3. it won't be cold in the winter. the wood is laminated (or clear paint?). it looks good, no doubt.
4. HID is definitely nice. the light output is excellent. get HID from the factory, cuz it's more expensive to install after market HIDs.
5. I would get window tint and save $ on the power sunshade.
6. ESP (stabilty control) is a must. If you ask me, I say this safety feature is as important as ABS. I would not buy a car without ESP.
I do want the Xenon lights, but I can't see ordering the entire nav. package just to get them. What's been your experience?
Variable suspension, not worth it unless, you like the soft or sport setting much more than the stock suspension.
Wood steering wheel. That is a personal cosmetic preference. Why ask others? It's like asking what is the best color.
HID. Not worth it unless you regularly drive in very dark country roads at night with no street lights. If you do, then the extra light might be useful. Most people get them just for looks because they look modern. Thieves love to steal them.
Power sunshade is nice luxury to have since it doesn't block light at night unless you want it to. (unlike tinting the windows)
I really, really wanted this on my 2002 ES 300. It is a great feature. There are two settings firmer than a standard ES 300 and you can really notice the difference, not only in the ride (less floaty) but also in the handling (the car does not lean nearly as much in turns). For $600 this feature is simply the best. I used to have a 1995 ES 300, and the 2002 has a far superior "feel" because of the AVS.
I remember when Road & Track test drove the car when it first came out; in their review they said if you only get one option the AVS should be it. Granted 90% of ES 300 buyers will not care to have a sportier ride, but I was one of the few who did.
Most people who say negative things about AVS probably 1.) Are not the target for this option or 2.) Have not driven the car with it and most likely don't know what they're even talking about. It really is like an ES 300 with a sport suspension and a standard suspension. It's the best of both worlds.
However, this weekend I was with a friend looking at the 2004 Toyota Solara. It had the nav, the same unit as in the ES 300 (just slightly updated). Packaged with an upgraded JBL radio the nav was $1,350! That's a heck of a lot less for the same equipment and it really surprised me.
If anyone wants the new DVD, they might try and get it from Toyota instead of Lexus.
Don't know why you are surprised. It is well known that just about everything on a Lexus is more expensive from a Lexus dealer.
I lost one of my keys and it costs $150 to replace from the dealer in Bakersfield. Also, the dealer said it costs $40 just to reprogram your keys.
Navs in general have been the same price regardless of whether it is a luxury car or not. Since navs came out (I think Lexus first offered them in 1998), navs have been $2,000. And nav prices in general have been $2,000 for cars such as the new Accord, Acuras, Infinitis, Nissans, etc.
So when the price of a nav all of a sudden drops on a Camry from $2,000 in 2003 to $1,350 in 2004 that's big news to me.
~alpha
http://www.lexus.com/models/ls/price_options.html
"I'm not sure why people think the repair costs would be high - I'd like to see some proof."
Lenscap - Common sense perhaps. If you can offer me an adaptive air suspension strut at the same price as a coil spring, I'll take you up on it. They're known to develop air leaks over time, and be expensive to replace. I've seen Lexus air suspension struts with a list price of over $1000. Price will vary based on model year and front or rear strut(s).
For the heck of it, I just called the Lexus dealer in Beverly Hills, CA and spoke to someone in service. The gentleman said it is very rare for a strut on an AVS-equipped ES to leak. In the case that they do need to be replaced, he said they are about $300 vs. $200 on an ES with the standard suspension. So yes, they are a little more, but it seems they don't leak too often (your price must have been for the more expensive LS struts).
If somebody is looking for a car with the lowest chance of having things break then I would not suggest a car as advanced as the ES. A cheaper car would not have items such as skid control, brake assist, AVS, navigation, etc...all things that could break. As I said previously, I have nav in my car. If it breaks I'm sure it's a lot of money to fix, but that didn't prevent me from getting it. The same is true of the AVS - I wasn't going to avoid it because of potential problems down the road.
Anyways, I think AVS is something someone just has to try for him/herself. A Road and Track writer is likely not to desire the same type of ride as the target ES buyer. I would probably like the AVS (had it on an LS), most ES buyers probably wouldn't care for it.
For those interested in learning more, below is the part of the 1997 ES 300 press release that talks about the system (note the ES system is based on the LS system but is not the same):
"An optional Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS) system makes true semi-active damping available in a near-luxury car for the first time. Based on the LS 400's semi-active air suspension, the AVS monitors engine and vehicle speed, steering wheel movement, braking, acceleration and the vehicle's vertical motions to continuously control shock absorber damping in concert with road and driving conditions. Each shock absorber can be adjusted in as little as 0.0025 seconds with a possible range of 16 settings.
As a result, each wheel's suspension can adjust itself continuously over each bump. The system reduces dive and squat under braking and acceleration, detects rapid steering wheel movements and will stiffen shock damping on the outboard side for flatter cornering. A vertical g-sensor can discriminate between low, medium and high frequency body movements and signal the damping system to combat such conditions as freeway "chop" and body float over undulating roads.
In order to tailor the suspension characteristics to many different tastes, a driver-adjustable AVS control permits selection of soft, normal, sport or hard damping ranges from among the 16 possible settings. Consequently, the need to offer a separate "sport" or "touring" suspension package with associated compromises in ride comfort is eliminated."
Improvements in the system for 2002 yield better road and steering feel and quicker turn-in response.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=6&article_- id=91&page_number=1
"Check the box for the Adaptive Variable Suspension (optional, at an estimated $700), and a spin of a 4-detent, console-mounted thumbwheel not only firms the shocks but sharpens the overall handling to the point of inviting hard cornering. With the standard car’s ride motions being borderline floaty, the better-snubbed sports settings were actually more comfortable too. If you order only one option on this car, order this."
There's a Consumer Reports review of the new ES that advises against the AVS because it's either too firm or too soft when adjusted from its default setting, which is most like the standard suspension.
So if a buyer isn't going to test it out for themselves, they're just going to have to decide whether they're more like a Road and Track reviewer or a Consumer Reports reviewer. I see the former as one who heavily prefers sporty rides, and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd want the ride even firmer than what the firmest AVS setting provides. I see the latter geared more towards your average consumer...one who sees their car more as a mode of transportation than a thrill ride.
Also, you have to consider whether AVS is an option in the package that you want. There was a stretch of time when AVS was only offered in the fully loaded '02 model (excluding custom order). If AVS happens to be offered in one of the standard feature packages which suits you, the decision becomes much simpler.
I remember reading what Consumer Reports wrote about the AVS not being something they would choose. Again, 90-95% of ES drivers would not want it. I actually like a little sport in my driving but love Lexus and therefore got the ES with AVS.
An interesting note is that Lexus has been running full-page ads lately in the car magazines focused solely on AVS.
When planning to buy my 03 ES.. I think :
- Premium package: leather + 6 CD changer => good things to have
- VSC: skid control... a must... safety is always first...
- HID: is an useless $600+ option(I live in metro area...only drive in New York and New Jersey which street light are everywhere)
- Wood steering wheel: $300+ another expensive option..
- Nav: I play with the nav at the dealer... it is so fragile... swing up/down to get CD in/out... and it is not as good as the nav of the Honda Accord...
- Adaptive Variable Suspension:.. only on the full loaded.. => why don't get the GS (a real sport sedan) instead...
- Levinson: if you have $$ to burn... Levinson is excelent... the sound is criper and stronger than standard system... However, the standard is very clear... so I will save the 1K different for my home plasma TV..
Buying:
I only want Premium and VSC. However, VSC.. go together with HID as a package.. (aka.. safety package).. and it connect with the wood package...
At dealer.. there are only 4 kind of cars:
1. base with premium $34K something
2. premium + safety package + wood package $36K something
3. premium + safety package + wood package + nav + some other thing $39K something
4. full loaded with everything didn't ask
I don't want nav.. so for what I need... I choose with #2
Premium + heated seat
VSC + traction control + wood package
trunk mate + wheel lock (expensive about $50)
The car I choose.. also has chrome wheel....it doesn't look great with color alabaster metallic ...
dealer replace it with standard aluminum ones...
Using: I have owned my 03 for 5+ months.....
Options:
HID: once you try it... I guarantee you will love it... I think it is worthy
Wood steering wheel: not so bad.... it reminds me to drive carefull... Hey, I am a luxury car...:-)
How is the car:
The car is awesome.... deadly quiet and so comfortable...
On our 2.5 hours to Phila last month... we skip our usual rest area... and when we come... we feel just get off from a sofa...
Buy again: no no... not again...
The ES is an excelent car ... so I plan to keep it...
My 13 years old 90 Daytona with 170K still run good..
So with just about 6K miles a year... I think the ES will be last 10 - 15 years.... and at that time I would go with a Boxter or Z4.... instead... :-)
Problem: My car lost power... 2 weeks ago.. reason.. I don't drive it enough...
I called Road side assistant twice.. to jump the battery... their service is excelent.. (I feel my extra money is really worhty)... Brought the car to dealer... they replaced a new battery... no charge..
Happy driving everyone..
Premium package (wood / leather steering, HID, heated seats, rear sunroof, etc) + Nav + ML system.
Reason for buying the car: love listening to music, so wanted the quietest car + a good audio system! Interior was better than the E320 4matic, 330xi, Maxima (my other options). Exterior is ugly looking in my opinion.
Didn't buy VSC or AVS. On VSC: did some research and found out that it makes little difference on FWD cars. Tested the car out in very heavy rain a week ago (6 hr drive). Drove wonderfully. Much better than my traction control / VSC equipped BMW 325is in wet weather. No point in having AVS in my opinion (seriously guys, acceleration is below average as compared to Maxima, TL, etc, so I'd not spend any money to try make it sporty). Besides, the regular suspension is one of the best available in this class.
No transmission problems detected so far (driven 900 miles).
I'd expect AVS be more expensive, cuz it's far more complex. But, on the other hand, this is a ES300 that we are talking about. It should be more reliable than a 960.
My Daytona.. I can leave it for a month and have no problem to start it...
I exam the ES... and realize yeah... ES "eat" a lot of power:
Lot of memory.. (seat, radio, CD remember where was the last time play at, clock)..
HID.. in auto mode.. will stay about 60 sec.. before shut off...
inteior light...
AC can on before.. engine turn on...
Alarm
More about car battery:
http://uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq5.htm
When the system failed (flashing dash indicator & no more Sport setting) the extended warrantee company cop-out was based on the driver selectable switch. The inference was that we broke it deliberately or some such B.S. When it worked it worked well, making the fast but overweight Ford dance around freeway ramps and other short chutes while cruising effortlessly down the superslab.
http://www.lexus.com/models/es/
I commute by bus... Daytona and ES are both my weekend cars..
ES sedan when go out with wife or long distance trip..
Othertime, Daytona coupe is more sporty and more fun to drive..
So, for my case... I think the dealer may be correct that the battery dead was b/c not being charged enough... However, it can be b/c the battery had some weak/dead cell... (as it happens with few other ES owners)
Or may be the dealer wants me to drive more.. => so they can have business with my service quicker..:-)
For your info:
The standby mode power consumption for the ES is few 100 mA (another guy at ES owner club measured it)
So yes.. you can leave it for a month or more and the car can start.. b/c the battery is "still alive"...
But, I don't think it is a "healthy practice" for the battery...:-)..
raddboy41:
1. 2 (two) hours each week not.. every day....
Otherwise, I have to apply for a part time pizza delivery job.. :-)
2. I did check the old one... the status icon is red.. => dead...
I looked carefully and made a little mark => don't want dealer recharge and put it back..
b/c the battery was jumped once but lost power again..
They replaced a new battery... no charge...
Otherwise, I will be very mad... my ES is 5 months old with just 2K miles on it