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I'll also comment that while the 00-01 MPV has picked up a reputation as underpowered, I can't complain about it. Ours has been perfectly adequate. But this is admittedly the perspective of someone who is used to driving small four cylinder cars that get 40mpg :<) You may not win any races in the 00-01 MPV, but that is probably not why you would be buying it. For normal minivan type use, the 00-012.5L duratech with the 4sp transaxle should be satisfactory. FWIW. danandkat
SC
Regards,
OldStyle
kcz
...The DVD/Entertainment system will be delayed 2-3 weeks due to a clerical error...
By the way, if you invested the difference in price for MPV and Odyssey in properly researched stocks or mutual funds, and left it in there for several years, you would get between 9-12% return.
So there...I have a vehicle that I am very happy with for thousands less than a similarly equipped Odyssey. My happiness is worth any money I might lose 5 years from now. (No one has mentioned that the Odyssey would also cost you in the interest rate from a loan...unless you paid it off early, that extra $3-4,000 would cost you big in finance charges! Esp if you have bad credit!)
I don't want to sound like I'm better at finances than you are. I think, for example, that the most prudent thing to do from the financial point of view is to buy a 2-year old car with ~30k. That leaves enough time/miles to find anything wrong with the vehicle and fix it under warranty. I, however, am willing and able to pay for the new car smell...
kcz
I DO work the best deal for my vehicles and on financing. I DO invest the savings and in fact when a car loan ends, I keep paying it into a mutual fund. Resale is of NO importance to me. Of the 4 vehicles I have bought new in the last 24 years (excluding #5, an ES bought on Saturday), the first I kept for 13 years/179K miles; the second, 2 years/28K (my one mistake...); the third (to replace #2) I still have after 16 years/130K; and the fourth (still own) for 12 years/193K miles.
And as for the Ody - any vehicle that cannot be bought for at near invoice, just is not worth it to me (and especially one that the dealer charges above and beyond MSRP just for the privilege of owning one...).
RBB
owr084: I commend you for investing the difference,smart move, but I still think you are in a very small minority.
kcz: an excellent financial decision to keep your cars for that long. However, bean3422 seems to think that appearance is very important. I do not put too much into looks,as long as it is not downright ugly. Dependability and total cost come first imo.
bean3422: Cars are not what I would look to for happiness, unless you are talking Ferrari or a similair fun vehicle and money was no object. Also, if you can actually guarantee a stock or mutual fund will get a 9 - 12% return for the next few years than you know something that all the experts don't.
Finally, I agree the Ody is overpriced,and the Honda dealers can be real bums,and I too could not bring myself to wait 6 months and pay over msrp, which is why we have an MPV; but if you ever go to trade in a car and many many people do, then resale value is very real and the money they give or don't give you is also very real. If no one ever trades or sells their cars then I am certainly wasting my time.
In comparison, I saw an older VW van that was in ok condition but needs work. It's selling for $4k. It didn't cost that much new. Basically, in the long run Ody's and MPV's will both be worth the same $$ amount. I think the MPV will hold its own and I believe Consumer Reports will reflect that difference, you will see that reflected in the resale values in 5-8 years.
Now if we can just kill this topic and move on to something else pllllllleeeeeeeaaaaassseee.
Most of you have probably seen Edmund's Total Cost of Ownership tool by now. Funny how they use a 5 year spread, not 3 (hmmmm). BTW, I ran the Ody LX vs. MPV LX through, just taking original price minus depreciation. At 3 years, the Ody was worth ~$4,700 more than the MPV, at 5 years ~$4,300. So if someone buys the MPV at invoice and saves around $4K, vs. paying MSRP for the Ody, what's the difference?
I'm with you msgjvh!
SC
Since the MPV ES we have has all the bells and whistles, I plan on keeping it at least 5 yrs maybe even more as long as the wife isn't bored. But by that time kids will be out of the house and a new convertible would be within reach. You will have to wait another 5 yrs for me to answer absolutely, but I think Edmunds 5 yr plan is about average.
It definitely is looking like posters here do tend to keep their cars much longer than the norm. I'm still driving my fourteen year old VW with over 170,000 miles to work every day. I wonder if this is a characteristic of MPV buyers or just of the ones who post here (or if the ones who trade in their cars every three years are just avoiding this thread).
Regards,
OldStyle
marcb -
1990 Nissan Axxess traded (in 2001) for a 2000 MPV.
1993 Plymouth Voyager daily driver (good for another 3 years).
Let me see. This is a list of my cars. Looks
like my average is ~ 4 years
197x Plymouth Valiant - bought used - kept 6 months
1982 Toyota Starlet - new - kept 2 years
197x Ford LTD - used - kept 1 year
198x AMC Spritit - used - kept 4 years
1985 Chevy Celebrity - new - kept 5 years
1985 Ford Tbird - almost new (demo) - kept 11 years
1987 Ford Taurus - used - kept 7 months ( wrecked in an accident)
198x Cadillac Cimarron - used - kept 5 years
1992 Toyota Paseo - used - still have it 10 years
198x Honda Civic - used - kept 2 years
1995 VW Golf - used - kept 3.5 years
1998 VW Passat - new - kept 4 years
1985 Mercedes 380SE - used - kept 2 years
2001 Acura TL 3.2 - new - still have it
2002 Mazda MPV ES - new - still have it
MB
Our first new car was bought two years after my d/w and I were married. It was an ’88 Ford Escort (mistake also), which we paid off and traded for $4K on a ’91 Saab 900T. I always had a company-owned vehicle. My *toy* was a ’77 Pontiac Grand LeMans, which I bought in ’84 when I first moved to FL from Indy. I had turned it into a conservative muscle car over the years, as I had to have to something fun to drive. The d/w guarded the Saab closely! We kept the Saab until ’98 and 55K miles. I sold it privately for $10K. It was out of warranty, had a history of problems (but I loved that car!), and we needed some extra money because we were moving and purchasing a more expensive home. Sold the Pontiac too ;(. I took the money and bought two used cars since my new job didn’t provide a vehicle; they paid mileage instead. Unfortunately, that didn’t work out too well as I blew the first one up in ’99, the second in ’00. Hence the reason for buying our two Accords in those years respectively. I have a good friend who was the sales manager at the time and we got great deals there.
We started to realize we needed something bigger when our son was born in ’99. I casually looked at the Ody in ‘99, more seriously in ’00, but ended up with another Accord (boring). I justified the second new car to a point with my mileage reimbursement, plus I wanted a very dependable car. Last year, it was becoming painfully obvious that we needed a minivan as my wife was putting either our daughter, or her little friend, into the front seat instead of cramming them in the back seat with our son’s humongous car seat. Yikes! We traded the ’99 Accord for our slightly used MPV in Sept. ’01. Yes rutger, I got a good trade ;-) We plan on keeping the Accord forever. We joke around that it will probably become our 8 y.o. daughter’s first car! We may look at replacing the MPV in ’04 or ’05, but then again, if it’s reliable (as it has been so far), we might keep it longer. I see a boat on my horizon, but that’s another story altogether!
Mazda_guy: if you count only your new cars (and the demo), it looks more like ~5.5 years (sorry, it’s the bean-counter in me!)
SC
http://www.formeraboutguides.com/investingcanada/library/weekly/1998/aa101298.htm
BTW, for anyone interested in audio books and finances, check out http://www.audible.com and look in their free downloads for a book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
Steve
Host
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1. There is a BIG difference between looking to your car for happiness and being happy with your car. I spend an average of about 15-20 hours a week in my car, so if I am not happy with it, then I am continually reminded of that unhappiness, all the little things that bug me, etc. Sorry, my God and my family provide the center of happiness for me, but happiness is really made up of many little things, one of which is the car you drive. Thank goodness the manufacturers do not subscribe to your automotive opinion, otherwise we would not have extremely enjoyable low-priced vehicles like Miata, Protege MP3, Subaru WRX, Honda Civic SI, etc. I have a family, I have to buy a minivan type vehicle, I think the MPV is the most enjoyable vehicle to drive while still retaining its functionality.
2. Along the same lines, there is a billion dollar business for products that make your vehicle "look" better. While I commend your lack of vanity, I think the majority of people (including myself) wish to spend those several hours a week in a vehicle that looks good to them. Something that gets looks when your driving down the street (yes, my Coastal Blue MPV gets looks, something my brother-in-law with his weird color green gray Odyssey can't say.)
3. If you study the markets for the last 75 years, the average gain has been something like 10.7%. (Sorry, read that somewhere, but of course cannot provide verification. Actually, don't have time right now to do the research.) Obviously, nothing in the market is guaranteed, and you really have to leave in in the market for a long time and make very wise decisions. But theoretically, based on statistical averages, it is possible to get a 9-12% gain.
And with that...and a good natured laugh! I put an end to the resale topic (except for Rutger's response, if he wishes!)
SC
By the way, where in the Burgh are you from? I'm from South Park with a 10-mile hilly [needless to say] commute.
Go for it.
RJ
I took the opportunity to check with another dealer, who confirmed the ordering problem...I also mentioned the $1,000 dealer incentive, and he said "its yours". Further, he wanted to sell me a fully loaded LX at inventory minus $1,000... he was even willing to take the rack off and fill and repaint the holes. I would have jumped at it except it was the midknight blue color.
The first dealer confirms that the 4 seasons package will be coming without a lux package requirement (hurray for rear heat, and Mazda is listening :-).
I now have a fully loaded LX coming for the same price as above ($23,665 for rear ac, 4 seasons, Lux package, security package, rack, cassette, step bumper), which is $1,000 off invoice plus $270 for the dealer.
I know it is a good deal, but I still have mixed feelings about paying for stuff that I don't really want or need. My choice was to abandon the $1,000 and take my chances later on a van more what I needed (and possibly end up paying about the same), or get the vehicle now (guess which won out :-).
Oh, and for Fenny1's query, the MPV handles really well in the snow... but get snow tires. I'm sure that the TCS will improve driveability over our current '00 model. Brick roads? Man, that's insult to injury in the winter, eh?
/java
MB
Here in FL, where the insects grow to enormous proportions and in gargantuan quantities, there's not much you can do, like mazda_guy said. Driving thru the Everglades at night is a very vivid experience! I actually find the windshield fluid reservoir to be inadequate. I'm constantly having to refill it
Welcome back Java! How was the pig roast?!
SC
Ron
Anyway, I discovered that the best way to avoid bugs is to drive very closely behind the other car. One time I was following a driver for miles and he was collecting all the bugs and I was clean :-). I do not recommend, however, this method obviously for the safety reasons.
MB
I like front-end bras too, which BTW Java, is the other obvious solution for you.
Also, I found that the rear cup holder was not even properly installed and I was able to lift it out with no effort at all. Just glad I did not find a soda can in the void Next, the head liner has a 3-inch line streak of white on it. Looks like frosting. Also there are several areas of the plastic that are stained with what appears to be oil. So far, hot water and dawn have not removed the stains.
I my be overly critical, but fit and finish is important to me. But to my wife, it's not a problem. Guess that's why I drive a honda and see drives the MPV.
Call me crazy.
Regards,
OldStyle
Caution
Slick Road
Cricket
They ran out of room to make the crickets plural, but they were definitly plural and so many of them, I don't think any bug shield would have helped.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
MB
http://www.eatbug.com/default.htm
More on topic, how about a link:
Mazda's Family Van Called Smart Pick Among Strong Competition
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards