Mazda MPV

big_guy · August 2003

Mazda has taken the 3.0L Duratec engine and added their own version of variable valve timing and implemented it in the Mazda6. It ups the HP by 20 and the fuel economy is 20/27 for a vehicle that weighs 3243 lbs and is pretty aerodynamic. The MPV weighs in 600 lbs heavier and is not as slippery so the 18/25 EPA rating for the MPV makes sense. I'm sure that if Mazda put their minds to it they could reduce the weight of the Duratec and reduce frictional loses to increase the fuel economy.

VW has the same thirsty engine problem with their 2.8L VR6 engine . . . they use it in the Eurovan and manages 17/20. Fortunately, VW offers very frugal TDI engines in Europe and (with any luck) soon will offer more in the States.

mbs7 · August 2003

I too am in the market and would like to get one for "around 18K". How did you get them to agree to that? What part of the country are you in? I was expecting to pay more like 19XXX after the rebate.

mbs7 · August 2003

Mazda's current rebate offer is for $2000 and it expires 9/2/03 I think. Will they extend or increase the rebate after that? I'm hoping they up it to $3000. Opinions? I'm a serious rookie at buying a new vehicle and don't normally watch these kinds of things.

javadoc · August 2003

Typically, they're really tight-lipped about rebates, for the obvious reasons. However, I doubt that rebates will disappear before the 2003 MPVs do. $3,000 would be nice, but I don't know that you'll see that. However, I believe the Tribute has a $2,500 rebate, so I think that's possible for the MPV, down the road.

tboner · August 2003

I'm not sure how they will reduce the weight of the Duratec. It is already an aluminum engine with cast iron sleeves (a'la the Cosworth process) so it is a pretty light V6.

However, I suppose they could make a SOHC version and take some weight out of the heads.

But I'd hate to seem much weight come out of the Duratec, because it is sufficiently over-built right now, and can take forced induction upto say 450HP on the stock crank and the journals that support it. You need new rods and pistons to push that kind of power, but it is nice to know the bottom end is overbuilt in that fashion.

TB

rutger3 · August 2003

Now that's a thought. I would gladly live with the lower mileage if my MPV cranked out 450hp. I need to start work immediately. Now where do I find these rods and new pistons?

bsvoller · August 2003

Heck, I'd settle for 235 ft lbs/230 hp at the same rpm points. No need to push the bottom end to its limits...

That's a 15% bump. If we could do that without taking a huge hit in gas mileage or emissions, that would really be a winner. VVT would prolly get us most of the way there.

Mazda could then claim more power per pound than any other stock mini-van, which I think would sell. Psychologically, the gap between a 240 hp Odyssey and a 230 hp MPV would be negligible, too.

I picked 230 because it would get you over the rule-of-thumb 6 hp per 100 lbs of curb weight needed to get that "abundant power" feel. The Ody currently has about 5.4, the MPV about 5.2.

I'd even be OK with that spec needing premium, so long as it would burn regular safely, like the old Sienna.

-brianV

sebr0d1e · August 2003

I would hate for Mazda to get caught up in the silly mine-is-bigger-than-yours horsepower wars the rest of the mommyvan makers are currently engaged in. Yes, the MPV could stand a few more ponies, but, it is after all a minivan, i.e. multiple people vehicle, so it doesn't need to be able to keep up with camaros and mustangs.

The MPV is smaller and for the most part lighter than the competittion, and therefore doesn't require the copious amounts of HP the others are shooting for. They are bigger and heavier, so when I c 240HP for an Ody, or 230 for the new Sienna, I don't feel bad bcuz they need that extra power just to get around adequately. The MPV right now is probably the Most Perfect Vehicle in regard to power-2-weight ratio in the minivan class. Those bigger, more power engines require more gas more often.

Also, (absolute) power corrupts..which means the more the powerful the engine, the more tempted one gets to rev'er up! I know power is good for passing on hills, highways and when u have a full load, but I think all the MPV probably needs added to improve in these areas is more torque made sooner in the rev range than horsepower. GM is a good example (I know, oxymoron) of having vehicles with low amounts of HP, but high torque that comes on early and strong.

Right now, the most HP/torque u can get out of the MPV is 200/200. now if u could get 200HP/250 lb-ft, with max torque working from a torque curve of say 1950-5000 rpm (i.e. Volvo), then that might be more adequate. Torque is the force that gives the impression you're moving fast anyway.

Finally, keep in mind that the MPV is front wheel drive, and with more power comes a greater chance of torque steer problems (i.e. most Nissans). I know it can be overcome with the right suspension setup, but then u have more weight from that suspension, and lose whatever power gains u wanted 2 get from the increase in HP/torque bcuz u have to add beefier parts or additional parts (i.e. limited-slip diffs).

tboner · August 2003

http://www.mercurycapri.com/projectrsx/v8sho/v6v8turbo.html

Pretty pictures

Actually, you can get better fuel mileage with the turbo engine, since you don't need to downshift as much, just crack the throttle a bit more, let the boost spool up and you climb effortlessly over the hill.

Of course if you put your foot to the floor all the time, you will burn copious quantities of fossil fuels.

Once I get the bugs worked out of my Turbo Duratec (on my car, not the van) I expect my highway mileage to improve over pre-turbo figures.

I'm not too far away now, with it running way rich at 3000+ RPM part throttle cruise.

TB

mbs7 · August 2003

I offered a local dealer today $20,500 before the $2000 rebate for the LX with no additional options: MSRP = $23,210. They refused the offer and I walked out, which was kinda satisfying. However, instead of just refusing the offer they were somewhat rude and insulting. I really dislike buying cars.

I told them I had seen some ads from other Mazda dealers for the same car around that same price. They basically said I was lying. I went home and re-checked what I saw and was correct.

lazyfox · August 2003

If you are sure you will never do business with them why don't you share the dealers name with us, so they can stick it somewhere. ;-)

javadoc · August 2003

Right, dish the dealer's name. Really, (I'm repeating myself, aren't I?) an MPV should really go for near invoice, less rebates. I'm sure in some areas this may be a bit different, but if a 2003 is on the lot when the 2004s roll in, then it's going to be worth alot less to them than it is now... so they're smart to sell them however they can.

You'll find the MPV you want, at the price you're happy with.

backy · August 2003

I have never seen an LX advertised for less than $19k. I have seen the LX-SV for as little as $18k without options, or $18.6k with rear A/C. When you saw the ads for MPVs around $18k, are you sure they weren't for the LX-SV model? I saw some ads this week in Austin, TX for "MPVs" and they didn't mention the model, but given the prices and no mention of alloy wheels, I am sure they were for the LX-SV. May explain why the one dealer turned down your offer. However, it was stupid for them to be rude about it. They should have explained why they don't go that low and made a counteroffer.

ytz · August 2003

Got one LX + rear AC (not LX-SV) in San Jose, CA, $18388 (with $2000 rebate) before tax. Unfortunately I graduated from the college too long ago, otherwise an additional $500 rebate will apply.

Be sure you get a LX, not LX-SV. Some dealers intensionaly mix up these two models and try to sell you LX-SV at LX price.

Good luck, mbs7.

ccna · August 2003

I am looking to purchase the mpv but can't decide if I should get the 03 or wait for the 04 models. I asked couple of salespeople at two different dealerships and they both tell me there will only be some minor cosmetic changes but power tranny will remain the same.

I understand the rebate is going to expire in september and not sure if mazda is going to extend it beyond september. Should I get the 03 or take a chance and wait for the 04 and hope mazda will extend the rebate beyond september?

Also, what is LX-sv i hear about. What are the major differences between regular lx and lx-sv? How about the automatic sliding doors. I see honda and toyota owners continue to have problems with their sliding doors and how about the mpv? Is it worth paying extra to get the auto sliding doors?

thanks in advance for any suggestions.

ytz · August 2003

The main difference btw LX and LX-SV:

16" alloy wheel
pravicy window
floor/cargo mats

power sliding door is not a standard option for MPV. I don't it is worth to pay extra for it.

backy · August 2003

The other difference is much more limited options on the LX-SV. The only options available seem to be rear A/C and the dealer-installed stuff. However, Edmunds.com doesn't even state that rear A/C is an option (but obviously it is since I've seen it advertised).

rutger3 · August 2003

Recently, had my 01 LX with 37k in for routine service (oil& rotation)at the local Mazda dealer where I bought it. My wife brought it in. The service guy told her she needed front brakes at a cost of $260 (pads and resurface rotors). He asked her if she wanted him to call her husband. What is this 1960? He called me said there was only about 3000 miles left on the pads, had 80-85% wear and tried to get me to agree. I said I would wait for now figuring I could get them cheaper elsewhere. Three days later brought it into our local Midas shop. They called me 2 hours later and said I do not need brakes ,have at least 50-60% left on the pads. Asked if we had any other braking problems which we didn't. He saw no reason for a brake job. Picked up van, cost 0. I am amazed that the dealer would lie to me since I am a regular, and even more amazed that Midas didn't put on new pads which I told them I was fully prepared to do. BTW, their cost was $120 for pads, $40 for rotors if needed including labor. How can you trust anyone?

stever · August 2003

You can't I guess. Who was your dealer? Maybe you need to send a little missive to the Owner/General Manager (or the local news).

Whatever happened to those garage exposes like the Canadians recently did? (watch out for Canadian Tire). Didn't Sears have to pay out a bunch in a class action for pulling stuff like this?

Grrr, sounds like outright fraud.

Steve, Host

mbs7 · August 2003

It was Sunnyvale Mazda. YTZ, which dealer did you go to? You got the price I *tried* to get! Sunnyvale Mazda said, "The ad you saw wasn't this car." But it was! I'm positive the ad I saw was for an LX not an SV, and YTZ's purchase proves it!

javadoc · August 2003

Sears got into hot water for both fixing fictional problems, as well as not performing repairs they charged for (alignments were a biggie). Alot of Sears service centers had to be closed.

I didn't really think the dealer's quote was that out of line, but you can do a pad replacement yourself in about an hour, and you should have the rotors turned. However, you can pull the rotors yourself (since you're 90% there already when you replace your pads) and take them to a shop to have them turned for under $40. You'd be back on the road in no time... for about $100 if you DIY.

Still, I'm surprised the Midas shop said that. It's been my experience that local Midas shops are the greediest repair shops around... recommending tons of repairs when you come in for just an oil change or alignment.

I agree... call the GM of the dealership... and maybe Mazda.

javadoc · August 2003

I've started a stopwatch.... tick-tock-tick-tock... <W>

rutger3 · August 2003

The dealer was Flemington Mazda in Flemington, N.J,par of several dealerships in the area selling about 20 brands of cars. Up until now, they had a good reputation, are owned by a local guy, Steve Kalafer who is very well known in our state as a good guy. He also owns a minor league team and just bought some other local properties. Yes, I beleive a letter is in order.

stever · August 2003

We have a discussion dedicated to dealer experiences that you may want to check out:

Madza MPV: Prices Paid & Buying Experience

Wherever you talk about your dealer, please just mention the dealer/city/state - more looks like advertising. Thanks!

btw, Java, I very good luck with Midas in midtown.

Steve, Host

lazyfox · August 2003

... try Sanchez in Gilroy. It's a bit farther, but we were happy with them.

JD now I get why you were ticking. Dang it I used to for less restrains from somewhere else.

Hope it's better now, Steve? ;-)

stever · August 2003

Much better, and I like the way you seem to have omitted a word (have?) in your post like I did :-) (I had very good luck at that franchise).

Steve, Host

javadoc · August 2003

LOL!!! Well, your post did stand for a while, Fox. ;-)

You need more of those TOU letters to wallpaper your computer room, just like me...yeah, well notice a ref to, ahem, this website, didn't get omitted at 'another' website. And don't think it didn't go un-noticed. <evil laugh>

I'm sure he's not making fun of you Steve (don't tease (feed) the hosts!)... that'd just be crazy-talk!

java - who is still nervous about what was in that Idaho reservior water he went jetskiing in...

just4fun2 · August 2003

You can only assume that the dealer and Midas are looking at both the inner and outer pads. If one is only looking at one side and not the other, that may account for the difference of opinion.

You might want to take off the tire and look for your self. Just a thought.

aia1 · August 2003

I just traded my 2000 BMW 328i on a Silver MPV LX with rear air, pwr doors, and roof rack. Crazy? No just with a new child and a need to cut expenses. Basically after much looking around I figured that the MPV represented the best current value in V6 5-speed transportation. I really love the solid feel of the vehicle and I was impressed by the level of features/comfort for the price. I parked next to an Odessey today and after looking at both vans for a moment confirmed my decision. The Odessey has no character while the MPV is great looking. I especially like the strongly sculpted hood/grille interface. My only gripe the that the dealer experience felt like a con game. Mazda really needs to clean up its dealer game especially in Florida. Buying a Mazda should not feel like a third world experience. I noted recent updates and renovations including attitude at all the local Volkswagen dealerships around town. Mazda should insitute a similar spruce-up program.

rutger3 · August 2003

Sent an email to the owner of local Mazda about the brake situation. Received a call back from Service Manage who seemed concerned about this issue,(Midas says I don't need brakes after Mazda said I did). Wants me to bring it back in to look at it. Said something about Midas perhaps not checking the inner pad, just the outer pad? Does this make sense to anyone.How long should original pads last?

ajacat1 · August 2003

re the rebate?

If the market gods swing our way, we may be in the MPV way for good and all (javadoc is shaking his head saying I'll believe it when I see it) and I'm wondering if anyone knows yet what's happening after Labor Day...

javadoc · August 2003

Same-ol' same-ol' with rebates. Mazda won't say until the last moment what the next month's rebates will be. I read this 'somewhere' today, so thought I'd pass it along... did you graduate from college in the past two years, or are you a junior or senior in college, or are you enrolled as a post-grad student? You could qualify for the Graduate incentive as well as the current $2,000 rebate... so that's $2,500 in your hands, right?

I can't see why they'd get any worse on the 2003 models, Ajacat. I'd rather you buy THIS WEEKEND, but I'll think good market mojo thoughts for you nonetheless. Glad you're still in the hunt though!

tccmn1 · August 2003

Does ANYONE else have the problem where you have the AC off and just have air coming through the vents and it's hot or starts out hot goes cooler than gets hot again? I took it to the dealer and they said it's NORMAL because of where the ducts run around the engine compartment! How stupid is that? I've never had hot air out of vents in any prior vehicle when ac is off and temp is about 70F. I suppose I should just run the AC all the time with the sun roof open dah!!

lazyfox · August 2003

Yeah, the MPV does it. I just used to for it now to run the A/C. After you run the A/C for a while and if it's a bit colder outside, it gets better after than and you can run without A/C just the outside air. Just one of those little bit annoying things one have to live with.

michael114 · August 2003

i was recently comparing the '03 mpv to other minivans for a potential purchase and most everything seemed rather favorable. however when using the edmunds comparison tools it showed the mpv to have a maximum payload capacity in the 300lb range while most competitors were anywhere in the 1300-1800lb. range.

is this a misprint? or is there some other explanation? how exactly is payload determined. is it passengers plus cargo. or cargo alone.
any info. would be greatly appreciated.

lazyfox · August 2003

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is 1420 lb and the standard towing is 2000 lb and 3000 lb with the 4 season package on 2002s MPVs.

backy · August 2003

Just about every car/van I've owned has this behavior. The vents are either heated up by the engine compartment or the sun, heating the air inside them.

javadoc · August 2003

Lazyfox is correct, payload on the MPV is in excess of 3/4 of a ton actually. Specifically:

GVWR = 5,867 lbs, Curb Weight is about 3,900lbs, so that gives you almost 2,000 lbs of payload capacity when properly distributed, which includes passengers. IIRC, the rated payload is 1,800 lbs, but I could be mistaken...

bottgers · August 2003

A coworker of mine started talking about going to a Mazda dealership to check out the new Mazda 6. I told him before he bought one from any dealer to go check them out at the dealership where we purchased out MPV. He did, and he ended up buying one from them. He told them I sent him there and they mailed me a $100 check. Not bad, huh?

stever · August 2003

Birddog fees aren't that uncommon. We have the occasional member who posts "tell 'em Joe Blow sent you" over and over again so they can try to earn the spiffs. Those posts get deleted for soliciting however :-)

Back in my day, spiffs were $50... inflation I guess.

Steve, Host

tccmn1 · August 2003

Thanks for the feedback on the heat out of the cold ducts. I still don't like it and never had it to this degree on my prior DC's and Plys minivans!

Anyway, one other thing, anyone notice some clunking or "indecisive shifting" at slower speeds. I've got 13K miles on my 03 now and noticed it happening more and more. Seems it can't figure out what gear to use between starting up and 25MPH at times. I sure hope this isnt the start of the Chrysler syndrome of bad trannys in minivans!
Don't get me wrong, I do love this mini better than my old DC, but I'm concern over some of these characterstics.
One last thing; anyone know of the changes coming for 04? I saw in a auto mag that MPV is going to have some face and tail lifts for 04 with new fender lines too.

lazyfox · August 2003

Yeah, I think DC minivans I heard have comfy micro-clima inside. ;-) Got me thinking that it should be possible to do some additional insulation, but haven't seen anything yet anywhere.

Some people had luck when the dealer did Re-flash the TCM for them. There is a TSB, but it has more symptoms to it. Anyway I think that it should be under warranty, try to take it to the dealer. If you want to look up the TSB, here is more details: US BULLETIN No: 05-011/02 SUBJECT: MIL and O/D OFF light illumination or DTC P0757 AFFECTED VINs: Lower than JM3 LW28** *0 340736

Was it written in the magazine or waz there a picture. If there was a picture, could you scan it and oput it online somewhere? For the changes check this press release, there is a paragraph about MPV http://media.ford.com/mazda/article_display.cfm?article_id=16113 .

tccmn1 · August 2003

Thanks for the link on the 2004 changes. This matches exactly to what the mags. were saying. I wonder if they'll bring back the RED for the MPV's again like back in 2000 and 2001. 7 new colors makes me wonder what they'll be.
I still like the style of our "OLD" MPV's now, but imagine that things will be more streamlined on the new ones. Smaller more contoured headlights, more sculptured lines on the side rear fenders and a racier rear end probably like the new Quest or Sienna's. I saw a new Nissan the other day and couldn't believe the changes they had made in that one!

subearu · August 2003

Found these listed on another site that I'd link to if I could....but here they are anyway.

exterior color - interior color
RALLY WHITE - BEIGE / BLACK
BLACK MICA - GRAY / BLACK
SUNLIGHT SILVER METALLIC - GRAY / BLACK
TSUNAMI BLUE MICA - GRAY / BLACK
TSUNAMI BLUE MICA - BEIGE / BLACK
WHITEWATER PEARL - BEIGE / BLACK
NORDIC GREEN MICA - BEIGE / BLACK
COSMIC SAND - BEIGE / BLACK
RAZOR BLUE - GRAY / BLACK
RAZOR BLUE - BEIGE / BLACK
TITANIUM GRAY - GRAY / BLACK

-Brian

ajacat1 · August 2003

If I'm inferring correctly, that means that the same exterior can be ordered with a *choice* of beige or grey interior. Thank Goodness! I really don't like the grey, but I liked some of the exterior colors that came *only* with the grey. Now to wait and see the shape of the front, etc...

vickie5 · August 2003

I've had some encounters with those tranny clunks and your right it tends to happen a very low speeds when it's shifting. Brings back memories of my DC. My MPV only has 2500 on it.

bdbomber · September 2003

I too,from time to time have a hard upshift from 1st to 2nd. I took it to the dealership and they gave it a test drive. No problem. The manager said they have to notice it before they can actually service it.I know a little about vehicles and it seems that a valve is sticking inside the tranny and hopefully will show itself over time. Also Have any of you checked out the sliding door lower roller bearings? My 03 had rust on the lower track. Mazda seem to made a engineering flaw by Installing a metal roller that comes in contact with the body of the vehicle (track).The dealership scrubbed out the rust and applied a heavy dose of door grease which will probably last about 6mos.

lazyfox · September 2003

2002 ES, notticed the clunk few times now, but it only did twice after the van was sitting in the garage over night. I tried to reproduce it the rest of the day and I couldn't. So it seems it clunks on cold engine/tranny only.

javadoc · September 2003

According to the specs that Fox posted, only the Tsunami Blue and the Razor Blue will have the option of either grey or beige interiors. All others are choice-free. ;-)

Personally, I don't know why Mazda does this... not allowing interior color choices for most any color. I see no reason to do so, imho.

rutger3 · September 2003

I have an 01 LX with 37k. It has always had a rougher than normal transmission. Always seems to hunt for the right gear. Not jarring,just not smooth like it should be. I do not believe this is a reliability issue,just a characteristic of MPVs in general. This is one area where Toyota and Honda have Mazda beat. BTW, does anyone know if this is a Mazda or Ford trans?

Mazda MPV

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